1948 NOT a Complete Fulfillment of Prophecy

[Jay Ross]

How do you compute a generation Jay?

Not using the modern understanding of a generation which is usually to be a descendant generation.

The Hebrew root word is H:1755 has the following meaning: -

OT:1755 dowr (dore); or (shortened) dor (dore); from OT:1752; properly, a revolution of time, i.e. an age or generation; also a dwelling: – KJV - age, X evermore, generation, [n-] ever, posterity.​

OT:1752 duwr (dure); a primitive root; properly, to gyrate (or move in a circle), i.e. to remain: – KJV - dwell.​

And also from The Online Bible Thayer's Greek Lexicon and Brown Driver & Briggs Hebrew Lexicon, we have

OT:1755 dowr or (shortened) dor : – a period, a generation, a habitation, a dwelling

1. a period, an age, a generation (a period of time)
2. a generation (those living during a period)
3. a generation (characterized by a quality, a condition, a class of men)
4. a dwelling-place, a habitation

OT:1755 is found first in Gen 6:9



Please notice that we have two separate Hebrew Roots words which have been translated as "generation." OT 8435 is a reference to descendant generations or Genealogy whereas OT:1755 is a reference to a period of time.

Now, in Genesis 15:16 we have OT:1755 used in this verse where it is referring to a period of time. The duration of "Aday of the Lord," "a generation" and "an age" all have a duration of 1,024 years, including solar years. So, in the "fourth Generation/Age the prophecy is referring to a period of time 3,072 to 4,096 years from the time that Isaac was born in the year 2052 BC. We know that 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac that some of Abraham's descendants returned to the Land of Canaan in their own strength, i.e. by acting God Like and not with the help of God, Himself, in 1948 which gives us a time period of exactly 4,000 years from Isaac's birth to when some of Abraham's descendant returned.

The second part of Genesis 15:16 tells us that at this time that the iniquities of the Amorite people will not yet be completed. What is their iniquities? Their claim that Jesus is not the Son of God.

God's gathering of Israel to Himself will not begin for a further 96 years after 1948 AD when He will begin redeeming Israel and plant them in His fertile soil/field.

I trust that this will help you to understand the difference.

Shalom

 

[BeforeThereWas]

@BeforeThereWas

You may laugh at what I have posted above that some of Abraham's descendants return to the land of Canaan in their own strength in 1948 to fulfill the Genesis 15:16 one verse prophecy.

However, your "HaHa" Smilie at the end of my Post #70 above was you laughing at God's word contained in this one verse prophecy.

If you are having a problem with God's prophetic words, do not make fun of the messenger who may reference a particular prophecy, you should take your laughter directly up with God and see what His response might be.

Goodbye BeforeThereWas

Please don't misuderstand my response to your post. I wasn't laughing at God's word. It was your use and interpretation of His word that was humorous.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Well the language scripture was written in is important. and some [prophecies begin and take time to complete, so saying a prophecy is being fulfilled is an accurate ter,.

Israel becoming a nation is in fulfilment of Ezekiel 20:

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

This has been happening since 1948.

My disagreement with your statement above is the fact that most Jews are still scattered all throughout the world right now. About 50% of the Jews in Jerusalem right now are Russian Jews. There are still many Jews in places like Iran right this very moment, and innumerable other nations, including here in the West in the USA. As a Jew myself, He has not called me to return there, so I remain here.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

The facts are you misunderstood the intent of my post and therefore your criticisms are meaningless.

Perhaps you could clarify.

BTW

 

[BeforeThereWas]

That covenant became active the moment Christ died on the cross and the veil between what was the holy place and the holy of holies in the temple that represented the first covenant, was torn in two. The entire New Testament / Covenant - all 27 books - are based on that fact, and it would be wrong to say that the gospel itself is based on that fact - because the fact is the new covenant / testament which came into effect once for all when Christ shed His blood and died, IS the gospel.

Your words betray the fact that you do not believe either the gospel or the 27 New Testament / Covenant books - hence you have no part in the new covenant now, and because you are waiting for a new covenant "to come into effect" the way the Jews are "waiting for Messiah to come" means that you probably never will have part in it. Your doctrine is false and you need - for your sake - to repent.

Well, scripture disagrees with you, and I will go with scripture, as is quoted in a previous post of mine..

BTW

 

[marks]

Still not a fulfillment of prophecy because MOST Jews are still scattered all across the earth right now. Additionally, Israel is occupying less than 2% of the land promised to Abraham that we would possess. Therefore, prophecy is not yet fulfilled. Perhaps this is the preparatory stages, but not the fulfillment. Total fulfillment is a false claim.

BTW

I'm not saying that this fulfills the prophecies to regather Israel, that will occur when Jesus returns to set up His kingdom.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Anybody suggesting that Israel has repented and that they repented in 1948 while acting God like in their taking of the Land of Canaan to establish the Nation of Israel does not understand what is presently happening with respect to the nation of Israel.

You must have confused me with someone else . . .

 

[LoveYeshua]

I wonder if the claim of prophecy being fulfilled in 1948 referred to Scripture other than Genesis 15:18?

God’s plan for Israel stretches across history, and Scripture shows it is unfolding in stages. God promised Abraham, “To your descendants I have given this land” (Genesis 15:18, NKJV). This promise is foundational, but it is not limited to one moment in history. Israel has been scattered, returned, and will be fully restored according to God’s timing and purpose.

The return of Israel in 1948 marked a significant moment — the people were physically back in their land after centuries of exile. But Scripture makes clear that this is not the final restoration. It was a partial and early stage, a foreshadowing of what God still intends to do. The prophets repeatedly speak of a greater return that is spiritual, complete, and eternal.

Ezekiel describes this ultimate restoration: “I will take the children of Israel from among the nations… and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land… and David My servant shall be king over them; they shall all have one shepherd” (Ezekiel 37:21–24, NKJV). This is more than a political return: it involves unity, spiritual renewal, and recognition of God’s rule — ultimately fulfilled in the Messiah.

Jeremiah also speaks of a coming time when God will fully renew His covenant with Israel: “Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel… I will put My law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people” (Jeremiah 31:31–33, NKJV). This promise has not yet been fully realized: many remain spiritually blind, and the covenant is not yet written in the hearts of all Israel.

Other prophets confirm the final stages but there are more not listed here;

• Isaiah says God will “set His hand again the second time to recover the remnant of His people” (Isaiah 11:11, NKJV), showing a second, ultimate gathering.
• Isaiah also says, “Fear not… I will bring your descendants from the east, and gather you from the west” (Isaiah 43:5, NKJV), indicating that many scattered Israelite families are still to return.
• Deuteronomy warns that even if Israel is scattered to the farthest nations, God will bring them back (Deuteronomy 30:4, NKJV).

The key point is that the full restoration has not yet happened. The 1948 return was a partial step: Israel is back in the land, but God’s plan includes a spiritual revival, complete unity under His rule, and acceptance of the Messiah. Only then will the covenant promises be fully realized.

In simple words: God promised the land to Israel, scattered them, and has begun gathering them again. But there is still more to come — the remnants who have not yet returned will come back, not just to a land, but into a people transformed by God, guided by His Spirit, living under His covenant, and recognizing the Messiah. Scripture points clearly to this final, complete restoration, which remains unfulfilled.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Apparently his is pro moslem

He's rooting for the moslems to destroy Israel just like all the others being deceived by the devil in to opposing the Lord.

how do you know this?

 

[marks]

In simple words: God promised the land to Israel, scattered them, and has begun gathering them again. But there is still more to come — the remnants who have not yet returned will come back, not just to a land, but into a people transformed by God, guided by His Spirit, living under His covenant, and recognizing the Messiah. Scripture points clearly to this final, complete restoration, which remains unfulfilled.

Great post!

One more to add . . .

Ezekiel 39:28-29 KJV
28) Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29) Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

When the prophecy is fulfilled, ALL Israelites will be returned to Israel.

Much love!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

My disagreement with your statement above is the fact that most Jews are still scattered all throughout the world right now. About 50% of the Jews in Jerusalem right now are Russian Jews. There are still many Jews in places like Iran right this very moment, and innumerable other nations, including here in the West in the USA. As a Jew myself, He has not called me to return there, so I remain here.

BTW

He is returning them. Not all are back, but it is an ongoing process. Whether or not every single Jew returns, I cannot say, but He knows and He is fulfilling the prophecy of their return so He may judge them and have the entire nation of Israel saved as said in Jeremiah, Zechariah and Romans.

 

[Jay Ross]

You must have confused me with someone else . . .

No Marks, what I had previously responded with was this which I am now quoting in full.

1948 was the return to Israel's self-rule, after their completed punishment.

God told Ezekiel to lay on his side 390 days, a day for a year, for the sins of Israel, and 40 days, a day for a year, for the sins of Judah.

This makes for 430 years combined. The Babylonian captivity lasted 70 years, leaving 360 remaining. In Leviticus 26, God told Israel that if they still did not obey, their punishment would be 7 times over. After the 70 years, most of the Jews did not return, and they did not build the temple God told them to build by Ezekiel.

360 years times 7 is 2520 years of 360 days (the length of the year at that time), or 2485.48 years according to our calendar.

If Cyrus' decree to return was in 536 BC, 2485 years later is 1948, the end of the 7 times over punishment, and the time for Israel's return to self rule.

Much love!

Marks, I only responded to your first error in the above post quoted which is Post #6 in this thread.

The rest of your post #6 is a very poor understanding of the duration of Israel's punishment for their continual punishment which was clearly stated in Exodus 20:4-6 which was going to last for four ages or for 4,096 (solar) years from the time of the birth of Isaac.

By claiming that a Jewish year was exactly 360 days long, which consisted of twelve thirty-day months, is also a sign of misunderstanding that over a period of 19 years or so, there were an addition four to five 30-day months added into their calendar to account for the actual length of the solar year. The determination of the end of the year was determined by linking the occurrence of the first sliver of the new Moon with when the baily crop was harvested for that year. Now the harvest of the bailey crop was subjected to the solar years and so every few years an additional month was added to the length of that year.

Now the 490 years that Israel was given to repent of their idolatrous worship, in Daniel 9:24a, was that they had actually 490 opportunities to repent yearly at the time of their Sin Sacrifice which occur during a particular month each year from the start of that year and to be real about their repentance. God had given then a period of grace of 490 years to repent otherwise the visitation of the father's iniquities would be visited upon their children and the children's children during the third and the four age of their existence.

Marks, your post was purely man generated fantasy in an attempt to explain away God's prophetic words concerning Israel and its punishment.

Trying to wriggle out of having made post #6 above in this thread tells us more about your character than anything else.

Shalom

 

[marks]

Anybody suggesting that Israel has repented and that they repented in 1948 while acting God like in their taking of the Land of Canaan to establish the Nation of Israel does not understand what is presently happening with respect to the nation of Israel.

This has no bearing on what I wrote. I made no comment on their repentance.

Marks, your post was purely man generated fantasy in an attempt to explain away God's prophetic words concerning Israel and its punishment.

Trying to wriggle out of having made post #6 above in this thread tells us more about your character than anything else.

Yes, we do all reveal ourselves - our character - in our words. You may benefit from reading your words above but pretend that someone else wrote them to you, and see what you think of it.

Much love!

 

[Jay Ross]

This has no bearing on what I wrote. I made no comment on their repentance.

Yes, we do all reveal ourselves - our character - in our words. You may benefit from reading your words above but pretend that someone else wrote them to you, and see what you think of it.

Much love!

Your post #6 above still tells us that you posted some silly comments.

Marks you can attempt to protect your perceived facade but the more you attempt to do so only reinforces what I have posted.

So be it. What has been posted has been posted and remains in the minds of the readers of this forum.

Goodbye Marks

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Genesis 15:18 — In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt [Nile on the west] unto the great river, the river Euphrates[on the east side]:

Operators like The Prophecy Club out of Kansas City and almost every prophecy buff the world over have been foisting the silliness of 1948 allegedly being the fulfillment of prophecy for us Israelis possessing the land promised to our father Abraham in verses like the one above. Evsn Johnathan Kahn has been riding that bandwagon, a fellow Israeli who has an entire congregation and nation-wide club of followers. Ever since that promise madde to Abraham, Israel has not ever possessed ALL that land.

Today we of Israel possess less than 2% of that entire expanse of land, but the montras and clichés keep vomiting out from the religious zealouts over them thinking they know what they're talking about while never once consulting the scriptures for themselves to see that the claims are false, thus them looking the fool to all the Bible students who take the time to educate themselves on prophecy and geography.

Discussion?

MM

All scriptures are not fulfilled at the same time, and prophetic understanding is my forte. So, when God stated in Ez. 37 that He would bring the "Whole House of Israel" back into "the land" he was talking about the OLD Israel which homebase, not the eventual New Millennium land-base of the Kingdom Age.

Yes, ........IF.......Israel had obeyed God and killed every man, woman and child God would have given, them the full land sooner, but of course God who knows all things already knew that Israel would not obey, so God foreknew Israel's full birthright landmass would not be allotted until the 1000 year reign starts.

1948 fulfilled the 12 Tribes returning to Israel. They are known as Jews only because they were all living in Judea since the Assyrians toted off most (not all.........of course) of the 10 Northern Kingdom tribes.

 

[Jay Ross]

All scriptures are not fulfilled at the same time, and prophetic understanding is my forte. So, when God stated in Ez. 37 that He would bring the "Whole House of Israel" back into "the land" he was talking about the OLD Israel which homebase, not the eventual New Millennium land-base of the Kingdom Age.

In Ezekiel 37:12 God made no reference to bring Israel back into the land of Israel, but rather this is what He said He would do: -

Ezekiel 37:12: - 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord God: "Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves and bring you into the fertile soil/field of Israel.​

The Hebrew root word H:0127 has the meaning of "soil" but because of the fixation of the Israelites and the Translators on God's supposed "Forever" promise of a described land, the translators had translated H:0127 as "land" instead.

Now God intent from the Beginning of the Abrahamic covenant was for the Israelites to be scattered throughout all of the earth so that they could be a blessing to all the people of the earth

This misunderstanding of the scriptures by both the Israelites and the Translators in this verse and many other similar occurrences of H:0127 means that Christian have come to believe that all the living Israelites must return to the land of Canaan before the End Times can unfold. Some Israelites have taken it upon themselves to force God's hand by forcibly returning to the Land of Canaan in 1948 in their own strength supported by a number of fragmented Christians who also hold to this point of view.

Christians who hold to this perspective of God's Prophetic Word need to repent and understand that the Israelites must be scattered and that by God planting them in the fertile soil/field of Israel, that can fulfill God's prophetic words that Israel will be a blessing to all of the peoples of the earth.

Shalom

 

[Ronald D Milam]

In Ezekiel 37:12 God made no reference to bring Israel bake into the land of Israel, but rather this is what He said He would do: -

Ezekiel 37:12: - 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord God: "Behold, O My people, I will open your graves and cause you to come up from your graves and bring you into the fertile soil/field of Israel.
The Hebrew root word H:0127 has the meaning of "soil" but because of the fixation of the Israelites and the Translators on God's supposed "Forever" promise of a described land, the translators had translated H:0127 as "land" instead.

Ezekiel 37:11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

When God brough Israel back He brough ALL 12 Tribes or He lied above.

 

[Jay Ross]

Ezekiel 37:11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

When God brough Israel back He brough ALL 12 Tribes or He lied above.

Please check the context of verse 12 and verify whether God had said "land" or "soil". The Hebrew text supports that He spoke of His fertile Soil.

Consistently God wants all of the Saints to send their roots down into His fertile Soil/field.

Shalom

 

[ewq1938]

Perhaps you could clarify.

BTW

I was proving that the words testament and covenant have the same meaning and are the same Greek word.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I was proving that the words testament and covenant have the same meaning and are the same Greek word.

It's surprising that anyone would ever think that similar Greek words always have the same applied definition in English. Are you saying you really believe that? That's like saying the Greek word translated as "cleave" in English from the same Greek word always has the same meaning in English, even though it has polar opposites definitions in our English language, with one being to cut into two pieces and the other definition being to put together into one.

Please educate yourself on the definition differences between covenant and testament. They're not at all the same. If you choose to stick to what you believe now at the exclusion of reality, then that's on you.

BTW