Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study

[Hiddenthings]

On the contrary, what comes is "all truth" and "every hidden thing revealed", wherein the law of God is "fulfilled."

And yet you still believe in mysteries?

 

[Zao is life]

Rev. 20:1 Interlinear - Revelation 20:1 Interlinear: And I saw a messenger coming down out of the heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a great chain over his hand,

There are words to consider in this text. Words for discussion:

• "And I saw"
• "an angel"
• "come down from heaven"
• "having the key"
• "the key of the bottomless pit"
• "bottomless pit"
• "a great chain"
• "in his hand"

I've been looking at your tables, and it's obvious that you have spent a great amount of time and effort into the above work - and your comparisons of different parts of our Savior's Revelation based on key words and themes is, in my opinion, excellent.

Not sure if I would support all of your conclusions regarding your findings (which I have not come to yet) - I still have a lot of reading to do of the above work when my brain is less tired, but so far I agree with all the comparisons in the top tables regarding the key words and themes in the book of Revelation in the above page that you linked to - which seem excellent.

Just one thing regarding this that I want to point out for you though is that although the comparison you made of the red horse of Revelation 6 with Revelation 19's slaughter is correct - be aware that the Greek word used for 'red' in the description of the red horse of Revelation 6 is found in only one other verse in the entire New Testament - the red dragon of Revelation 12.

Also be aware that although a thousand years that commences following the return of Christ seems absurd to many (because it would involve the bottomless pit being opened twice and shut twice) - opened before the return of Christ and shut again following His return, then opened a second time to release Satan at the close of the thousand years

- yet a thousand years that commences following the return of Christ is in line with the fact that the last three chapters of the Bible are a reflection of the first three chapters of the Bible:

First three chapters: Beginning of time: God's creation (Genesis 1:1-31).
Last three chapters: Christ makes all things new (Revelation 21:5).

First three chapters: Perfectly good (Genesis 1:31).
Last three chapters: Only righteousness dwells in it (Revelation 21:27).

First three chapters: Tree of life (Genesis 2:9, 16-17).
Last three chapters: Tree of life (Revelation 21:6; Revelation 22:1-2, 14, 17).

First three chapters: Adam given dominion (Genesis 1:26-28).
Last three chapters: The dominion of the last Adam (Revelation 20:4 - also see Revelation 3:21).

First three chapters:

(a) Satan's deception of Adam & Eve (which began with the words "You will NOT surely die" - Genesis 3:1-7, 11-19).

(b) Expulsion from Eden (Genesis 3:22-24).

(c) Death of Adam (the first death) - 930 years later (Genesis 5:5).

IN-BETWEEN THE FIRST THREE CHAPTERS AND THE LAST THREE CHAPTERS:

--- "I am the Resurrection [anastasis]
and the (eternal) life [zoe]!" (John 11:25 - Jesus) ---​

The contents of the last three chapters just happen to contain ALL the following things:

1. The judgment of the dead.
2. The ages of the ages of a new heavens and new earth.
3. The binding of Satan's ability to deceive the nations - for a thousand years.
4. A one thousand year period which closes with fire coming down from God out of heaven, and devouring those who were deceived by Satan." (Revelation 20:7-9).

Jesus said:

"Fear not them which kill the body [soma], but are not able to kill the soul [psuche]: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul [psuche] and body [soma] in gehennah [G1067 geenna]." (Matthew 10:28).

The New Testament uses the word geena (Hebrew: gehennah) every time Jesus talks about the everlasting destruction of body and soul.

Gehennah and the lake of fire burning with brimstone both represent an everlasting destruction of body and soul. Revelation 19:20 (previous chapter) tells us that the beast and the false prophet were both thrown alive [zao] into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. So the concept of being damned while alive [zao] is not extra-biblical, or alien to scripture.

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night to the ages of the ages." (Revelation 20:10).

Both rebellions against the authority of the Word of God take place in a state of paradise while the created humans are immortal.

IMO nothing more can be said about the above, because nothing more has been written regarding the above in the Revelation - but the last three chapters of the Bible are a reflection of the first three.

What I see is a literal angel coming from heaven to Earth to perform some tasks. He possesses two forms of control and constraint, a key to a lock of some kind (likely not exactly like human locks but a lock nonetheless) which locks a sealed pit/prison of some kind, and a chain which I feel wraps around a person to completely incapacitate rather than a dog tied to a tree concept.

Neither Jesus or the gospel does any of this. It is an angel that does this and is similar in action to other things angels do in Rev.

 

[ScottA]

And yet you still believe in mysteries?

No, that mystery that is written that was sealed and not to be revealed until the end, is now revealed--this I do not "believe", but know.

 

[Brakelite]

@Brakelite

I’m not sure if you’re still active on the forum, but could you clarify whether Advent’s teaching aligns with standard Seventh-day Adventist doctrine? I may be mistaken, but my understanding was that Adventists believe in the second coming of Christ to the earth i.e at the beginning of his reign. From what I can see, however, Advent seems to be teaching that Christ and the saints are in heaven during the 1,000-year reign. That position appears untenable to me on the basis of Scripture. I’d appreciate your comment. Thanks.

I'm a little concerned that whatever I offer will either be designated "symbolic", or a metaphor for a cherished false doctrine. Nevertheless, you asked, ,so.
You are incorrect. Adventist eschatology firmly affirms Christ's second coming as the event that culminates in His taking His Bride home to His Father.

“1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. ”
John 14:1-4 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

The meek do inherit the earth, but not at the second coming. There's business to be done first,

 

[Zao is life]

You make quite a few unsubstantiated claims which are false - the very thing you rudely accused the person you were talking to about.

In Revelation 19:10, the presiding angel is associated with the Redeemed

(true)

who, in the days of their glory, will not only be “equal unto the angels” (Luke 20:36) but will also assume responsibility for administering affairs currently managed by the angels under the guidance of the Lord Jesus Christ (Hebrews 1:14; 2:5; 1 Peter 3:22).

False. In Hebrews 1:14 angels are being described as ministering spirits sent to minister to those who are the heirs of salvation (humans).

In Hebrews 2:5-9 it's speaking not of all saved humans, but of one human - Christ Jesus. Same in 1 Peter 3:22.

Then you continue to mix your false assertions with some things that are true again - but also with things that are false:

(It is important to recognize that, up to this point in time (the beginning of the 1000 year period), no one has yet been glorified or made a Saint of the Living God; all the Elect, as well as the responsible lost, remain in the sleep of death (dust), awaiting the resurrection.) ..

.. etc etc. It's all just part truth mixed with unsubstantiated assertions based on opinions, based on personal doctrine that is not based on correctly interpreting scripture.

 

[Zao is life]

Adventist eschatology firmly affirms Christ's second coming as the event that culminates in His taking His Bride home to His Father.

“1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. ”
John 14:1-4 KJV

John 14
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode [G3438 mone] with him.

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father’s house are many mansions [G3438 mone]: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

G3438: mone. from 3306; a staying, i.e. residence (the act or the place):--abode, mansion.

G3306: meno: a primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy):--abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.

Compare:

(a) As I said unto the Jews,

Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

(b) Whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

(c) Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

Jesus replied:

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6).

Keep comparing the verses, because further on down in the passage - and still in the same context of speaking to His disciples about His departure - Jesus tells those who believe in Him and belong to Him:

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live [zao], ye shall live [zao] also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode [G3438 mone] with him.

John 14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father’s house are many mansions [G3438 mone]: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

-- Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father after He ascended into heaven, and after He had already prepared a place for the ones who believe in Him at the moment He said, "It is finished", when He bowed His head and gave up His spirit (John 19:30) --

John 14
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6).

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode [G3438 mone] with him.

We are already now seated with Christ in heavenly places - Ephesians 1:3, 20 and 2:6. He's not taking us into heaven after coming down from heaven. We will meet Him in the air and come back down with Him when He destroys the beast and His armies. The wedding feast of the Lamb is a great slaughter (Revelation 19).

 

[Zao is life]

This is the "Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study" thread.

(NOTE; PLEASE READ AT LEAST THIS POST BEFORE ENGAGING: Please, in charity (1 Cor. 13 KJB), be kind to each other's response in responding (Col. 4:6 KJB), whether one sees another's responses in error or not. This means a person can point out an error (by scripture), or by asking a question for clarification or in attempt to help another see a flaw, but please refrain from accusations, like 'liar' (that is difficult to prove motive of), 'deceiver', 'lost', &c/, like character assassinations, or previous argumentative history with a person (aka 'personal baggage / grievances / grudges'). As those things are unhelpful, and lead away from actual scriptural study. One may use words like correct, incorrect, fact and error, but in a kindly, demonstrative with evidence way.)

Here are the primary texts for study; Rev. 201-15 KJB (King James Bible), highlighting only "a thousand years", "the thousand years" in bold underline.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.​

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,​

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.​

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.​

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.​

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,​

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.​

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.​

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.​

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.​

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.​

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.​

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.​

This thread's author (myself) believes that the Bible is defined in the Bible, by God therein (Gen. 40:8; Isa. 28;10,13 KJB), and that as a Christian (we / I) should only "amen" what is already given to us therein from God (1 Pet. 4:11 KJB), as the scripture, being inspired of God (2 Tim. 3;16-17; 2 Pet. 1:21 KJB), is not the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33 KJB), but of "order" (1 Cor. 14:40 KJB) and perfect 'timing' (Ecc. 3:1 KJB), and 'cannot lie' (Tit. 1:2; Heb. 6:18 KJB), and so the word thereFrom, cannot be "broken" (non-contradictory; Jhn. 10:35; Psa. 119:160 KJB). This means I do not believe in, nor subscribe to, "private interpretation" (2 Pet. 1:20 KJB) at all. Therefore, if someone not liking a reply says, 'That is your [meaning 'my'] opinion ...', or something to that effect, they have unjustly mischaracterized my actual position, and present a 'strawman' of their own mind / making in its place, and have ceased from engaging with my actual response and position, and I may point this out in charity, and ask for a differing response. There is only 1 Truth, and it is the Truth of JEHOVAH Elohiym, being of, and belonging, to the LORD God. I do not have a monopoloy on Truth, as the Godhead shares with whomsoever They will.

Please go slowly, as it is not neccessary to place ones entire theology / eschatological position into a response. This thread is more about studying together, asking honest and sincere questions of one another about their positions held. People may openly disagree with one another, but please do so in a kindly fashion, with stated reasons / evidences for the disagreement. Allow the other respondant time to read, and engage with what is stated. If this thread, for whatever reason (generally satanic influences) becomes a name-calling event, as other threads, I will simply abandon this thread, and ask to have it closed by Moderation / Admin, or ask for a specific individual to be removed from further corrupt influence upon a sincerely intentioned endeavor.

"... be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." - Mat. 10:16 KJB​

Thank you all who participate in the Holy Spirit.

After reading more in your document I realize that aside from your comparisons between different parts of the Revelation, there are a lot of assertions made in your document - which is too much to first copy and paste and go through one by one here - but much of it is indeed SDA eschatology which I recognize but disagree with.

 

[Hiddenthings]

After reading more in your document I realize that aside from your comparisons between different parts of the Revelation, there are a lot of assertions made in your document - which is too much to first copy and paste and go through one by one here - but much of it is indeed SDA eschatology which I recognize but disagree with.

I wanted Advent to make his study more conversational and to provide supporting evidence, especially regarding how he altered the context of Hebrews 11 (Heaven Going) but he is unwell and seems intent on treating the thread more like a blog. I can see he has put in a lot of work, but approaching any study with preconceived ideas will only lead you to try to force notions onto the text that aren’t actually there.

I’m busy at the moment, but I hope to respond to your other comments in due course.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I'm a little concerned that whatever I offer will either be designated "symbolic", or a metaphor for a cherished false doctrine. Nevertheless, you asked, ,so.
You are incorrect. Adventist eschatology firmly affirms Christ's second coming as the event that culminates in His taking His Bride home to His Father.

“1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. ”
John 14:1-4 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

The meek do inherit the earth, but not at the second coming. There's business to be done first,

Thanks for this.

 

[ewq1938]

I'm a little concerned that whatever I offer will either be designated "symbolic", or a metaphor for a cherished false doctrine. Nevertheless, you asked, ,so.
You are incorrect. Adventist eschatology firmly affirms Christ's second coming as the event that culminates in His taking His Bride home to His Father.

“1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. ”
John 14:1-4 KJV

Where was Christ when he said, "That where I am, there ye may be also"?

 

[Adventageous]

Where was Christ when he said, "That where I am, there ye may be also"?

Jesus was physically standing on earth, but was speaking about leaving earth to the disciples, thus the "where I am" is not on earth:

​

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.​

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.​

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.​

Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.​

Jesus was not unclear. Jesus did not say, "here" (earth, where they were all standing), but "there", "the place" He was going "to", which is in His, "God" the, "Father's house". Jesus would leave earth for that "place", and later "come again" from that "place" to "receive" the disciples" "unto" "himself", which is not on earth, even as 1 Thes. 4:16-17 states, "descend from heaven", and be in the "air" to which all the resurrected shall be "caught up" to and then as 1 Thes. 4:14 states, "God" will "bring with" Jesus back to the "Father's house".

It's like myself saying to my brothers on earth, "I am leaving on a jet plane, but I'll be coming back again, but you'll not meet me upon the ground, for you'll be taken, lifted up to myself, and not on earth be found, for wings shall gather you and make you fly, and you'll join me in the sky." Thus as Enoch, as Eljiah, &c.

 

[Adventageous]

After reading more in your document I realize that aside from your comparisons between different parts of the Revelation, there are a lot of assertions made in your document

Thank you for reading. I hope that the comparisons are helpful to you never-the-less. Perhaps just pick one point that you think I am only "asserting", and I would hopefully be able to take some more time with you on it, and provide additional evidences. I am limited by the time, forum posting length, &c. Some comments are not meant to be indepoth, but simlpy summaries, which may be able to be gone over in more detail as later. After all, we are still on Rev. 20:1. Let me know, as you will.

 

[Brakelite]

Where was Christ when he said, "That where I am, there ye may be also"?

After our resurrection, we will have immortal bodies...not flesh and blood...but glorified bodies such as angels have and the Lord Himself. They are physical in that they can touch and be touched, (as the angel led Lot out of Sodom by the hand, and Jesus hugging His disciples and inviting Thomas to touch Him), so Jesus was talking about a future time where He would be, not where He was then.

John 14
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode [G3438 mone] with him.

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father’s house are many mansions [G3438 mone]: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

G3438: mone. from 3306; a staying, i.e. residence (the act or the place):--abode, mansion.

G3306: meno: a primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy):--abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.

Compare:

(a) As I said unto the Jews,

Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

(b) Whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

(c) Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

Jesus replied:

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6).

Keep comparing the verses, because further on down in the passage - and still in the same context of speaking to His disciples about His departure - Jesus tells those who believe in Him and belong to Him:

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live [zao], ye shall live [zao] also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode [G3438 mone] with him.

John 14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father’s house are many mansions [G3438 mone]: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

-- Jesus sat down at the right hand of the Father after He ascended into heaven, and after He had already prepared a place for the ones who believe in Him at the moment He said, "It is finished", when He bowed His head and gave up His spirit (John 19:30) --

John 14
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6).

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode [G3438 mone] with him.

We are already now seated with Christ in heavenly places - Ephesians 1:3, 20 and 2:6. He's not taking us into heaven after coming down from heaven. We will meet Him in the air and come back down with Him when He destroys the beast and His armies. The wedding feast of the Lamb is a great slaughter (Revelation 19).

Similarly to what Advent. posted, Jesus was talking about a futur time after the resurrection. Until then He promised to be with us by His Spirit, which promise He has kept. But the promise to return and take us to Himself and then to the Father is built into middle eastern typology where the groom traditionally came to take His bride away from her world and her family, and take her to His world and His family. That's a physical move being made by the bride and Groom, not a spiritual move by the groom.

And what kind of beginning to our new life with our Husband entails having a home amongst desolation of an earth with rotting bodies and pollution and nuclear waste throughout the planet which isn't made new for another 1000 years?

 

[Adventageous]

I am Seventh-day Adventist, here is a book which describes the details (so ill right now, cannot write much) - Godhead - The Eternal Heavenly Trio : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.​

​

Rev 20:1 και ειδον αγγελον καταβαινοντα εκ του ουρανου εχοντα την κλειδα της αβυσσου και αλυσιν μεγαλην επι την χειρα αυτου​

​

Rev 20:1 καιG2532 CONJ ειδονG3708 V-2AAI-1S αγγελονG32 N-ASM καταβαινονταG2597 V-PAP-ASM εκG1537 PREP τουG3588 T-GSM ουρανουG3772 N-GSM εχονταG2192 V-PAP-ASM τηνG3588 T-ASF κλειδαG2807 N-ASF τηςG3588 T-GSF αβυσσουG12 N-GSF καιG2532 CONJ αλυσινG254 N-ASF μεγαληνG3173 A-ASF επιG1909 PREP τηνG3588 T-ASF χειραG5495 N-ASF αυτουG846 P-GSM​

The focus of this part of the study is on the phrase "a great chain" (other words for "chain/s" in scripture are "fetters", sometimes "cords" and sometimes "bands", sometimes "yoke", &c.):

The "great chain" is not physical / literal 'fetters of iron' (Psa_149:8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;), which devils may break (see Mar. 5:3-4; Luk. 8:29; as well as holy angels - Act. 12:7 KJB), but instead it is a 'great chain' of omnipotent providences & circumstances prophesied of God that cannot be undone by any amount of physical or mental strength of those it bounds / arrests. This "mega-chain" is no ordinary chain. For instance, see:

In Job 36:8 read:

Job_36:8 And if they be bound in fetters, and be holden in cords of affliction;​

In Psalms 73:6 we read:

Psa 73:6 Therefore pride compasseth them about as a chain; violence covereth them as a garment.​

​

Psa 73:17 Until I went into the sanctuary of God; then understood I their end.​

Psa 73:18 Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction.​

Psa 73:19 How are they brought into desolation, as in a moment! they are utterly consumed with terrors.​

​

In Proverbs 5:22 we read:

Pro_5:22 His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sins.​

In Lamentations we read:

Lam_1:14 The yoke of my transgressions is bound by his hand: they are wreathed, and come up upon my neck: he hath made my strength to fall, the Lord hath delivered me into their hands, from whom I am not able to rise up.​

Lam 3:1 I am the man that hath seen affliction by the rod of his wrath.​

Lam 3:2 He hath led me, and brought me into darkness, but not into light.​

Lam 3:3 Surely against me is he turned; he turneth his hand against me all the day.​

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Lam 3:5 He hath builded against me, and compassed me with gall and travail.​

Lam 3:6 He hath set me in dark places, as they that be dead of old.​

Lam 3:7 He hath hedged me about, that I cannot get out: he hath made my chain heavy.​

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Lam 3:8 Also when I cry and shout, he shutteth out my prayer.​

Lam 3:9 He hath inclosed my ways with hewn stone, he hath made my paths crooked.​

In Ezekiel we read:

Eze 7:14 They have blown the trumpet, even to make all ready; but none goeth to the battle: for my wrath is upon all the multitude thereof.​

Eze 7:15 The sword is without, and the pestilence and the famine within: he that is in the field shall die with the sword; and he that is in the city, famine and pestilence shall devour him.​

Eze 7:16 But they that escape of them shall escape, and shall be on the mountains like doves of the valleys, all of them mourning, every one for his iniquity.​

Eze 7:17 All hands shall be feeble, and all knees shall be weak as water.​

Eze 7:18 They shall also gird themselves with sackcloth, and horror shall cover them; and shame shall be upon all faces, and baldness upon all their heads.​

Eze 7:19 They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumblingblock of their iniquity.​

Eze 7:20 As for the beauty of his ornament, he set it in majesty: but they made the images of their abominations and of their detestable things therein: therefore have I set it far from them.​

Eze 7:21 And I will give it into the hands of the strangers for a prey, and to the wicked of the earth for a spoil; and they shall pollute it.​

Eze 7:22 My face will I turn also from them, and they shall pollute my secret place: for the robbers shall enter into it, and defile it.​

Eze 7:23 Make a chain: for the land is full of bloody crimes, and the city is full of violence.​

Eze 7:24 Wherefore I will bring the worst of the heathen, and they shall possess their houses: I will also make the pomp of the strong to cease; and their holy places shall be defiled.​

Eze 7:25 Destruction cometh; and they shall seek peace, and there shall be none.​

Eze 7:26 Mischief shall come upon mischief, and rumour shall be upon rumour; then shall they seek a vision of the prophet; but the law shall perish from the priest, and counsel from the ancients.​

Eze 7:27 The king shall mourn, and the prince shall be clothed with desolation, and the hands of the people of the land shall be troubled: I will do unto them after their way, and according to their deserts will I judge them; and they shall know that I am the LORD.​

In Jude 1:6 we read:

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.​

In Scripture, often a "chain" is placed upon the "neck", and also sometimes "hands":

• sometimes in honour bound duty (Gen. 41:42; Exo. 28:14,22,24-25, 39:15,17-18; Num. 31:50; Jos. 2:15; Jdg. 8:26, 1 Kin. 6:21, 7:17; 2 Chr. 3:5,16; Psa. 2:3; 105:18, 118:27; Pro. 1:9, 3:3,22, 6:21; Ecc. 4:12, 12:6; Son. 1:10, 4:9; Isa. 33:20, 54:2; Jer. 5:5, 10:20, 38:6,11-13; Eze. 16:11; Dan. 5:7,16,29; Hos. 11:4; Act. 12:6,7, 21:33, 28:20; 2 Tim. 1:16) and
• in other times in captive disgrace; (Gen. 27:40; Deu. 28:48; Jdg. 16:21; 2 Sam. 3:34; 2 Kin. 25:7; 2 Chr. 33:11, 36:6; Job 30:11, 41:1; Psa. 68:6, 73:6, 118:27, 129:4, 149:8; Pro. 5:22; Lam. 3:7; Isa. 3:9, 5:18, 10:27, 40:19, 45:14, 52:2; Jer. 27:2,8,11,12,14, 30:8, 39:7, 40:1,4, 52:11; Eze. 7:23, 19:4,9, 27:24; Mic. 2:5; Nah. 3:10; Mar. 5:3,4; Luk. 8:29; Jhn. 2:15; Act. 15:10; 2 Pet. 2:4; Jud. 1:6; Rev. 20:1)

A "neck" is associated with that which sustains, or holds up a "head" (see Lev. 5:8; naturally, and also symbolically / spiritually as leadership (Isa. 8:8, 30:28; Hab. 3:13, &c.), or even the thinking, heart, mind, spirit; Deu. 10:16; Act. 7:51, &c.), and "hands" are associated with ones actions / doings (thus also natural to spiritual; see 1 Cor. 15:46).

[[Side note:​

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Revelation 14:9 KJB - And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,​

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See connection at Rev. 13:1-10 for “beast”, Rev. 13:11-18 for “image”; Exo. 13;16; Deu. 6:8, 11:18; Jer. 3:3 for “forehead”, “frontlets” for thinking; Ecc. 9:10 KJB for “hand” = actions.]]​

Other interesting texts to think of in association with the devil's offenses, and punishment thereof:

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Mat_18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.​

Mar_9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.​

Luk_17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.​

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Though the saints are 'sealed' by the Spirit of the Living God (Rev. 7 & 14), the devil shall then be 'sealed' (trapped on earth) and bound in his iniquities, so that he cannot escape the judgment of God, for his actions have brought him to this conclusion. He will be 'bound' on the devastated earth (Rev. 6:14, 15:1, 16:18, 21:9), in gross darkness, in the land of the dead (2 Thes. 2:8), for 1000 years (rev. 20:2). More on the conditions of the earth during the 1000 years to come shortly.

 

[ewq1938]

where He would be, not where He was then.

Then why did he say "where I am" rather than "where I'll be"?

"That where I am, there ye may be also"?

Going by what he said, he is on the Earth and says that's where "ye" would be. Not one word about somewhere else.

Pretribs also misrepresent the verse to claim a heavenly destination but that does not match the text. This is a case where doctrine altars the text into something not said.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus was physically standing on earth, but was speaking about leaving earth to the disciples, thus the "where I am" is not on earth:

That is not what he said. He said we would be where he is, and he would be on the Earth so you are wrong about this fictional return to heraven.

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Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.​

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.​

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.​

Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.​

Jesus was not unclear. Jesus did not say, "here" (earth, where they were all standing), but "there", "the place" He was going "to", which is in His, "God" the, "Father's house". Jesus would leave earth for that "place", and later "come again" from that "place" to "receive" the disciples" "unto" "himself", which is not on earth, even as 1 Thes. 4:16-17 states, "descend from heaven", and be in the "air" to which all the resurrected shall be "caught up" to and then as 1 Thes. 4:14 states, "God" will "bring with" Jesus back to the "Father's house".

This completely ignores the actual text, that he would return (to Earth) and THERE is where we would be with Him. You are using eisegesis to add in your personal belief that Jesus takes ppl to heaven after the second coming. No verse in the bible supports that.

 

[Brakelite]

Then why did he say "where I am" rather than "where I'll be"?

"That where I am, there ye may be also"?

Going by what he said, he is on the Earth and says that's where "ye" would be. Not one word about somewhere else.

Pretribs also misrepresent the verse to claim a heavenly destination but that does not match the text. This is a case where doctrine altars the text into something not said.

Mmm. So His heavenly Father's house is not in heaven?

 

[Hiddenthings]

That is not what he said. He said we would be where he is, and he would be on the Earth so you are wrong about this fictional return to heraven.




This completely ignores the actual text, that he would return (to Earth) and THERE is where we would be with Him. You are using eisegesis to add in your personal belief that Jesus takes ppl to heaven after the second coming. No verse in the bible supports that.

This is the issue. Advent has his own narrative and regardless of the text of context he will make it fit.

 

[Brakelite]

He said we would be where he is,

Indeed. But there are numerous promises and prophecies that speak in the first person present, the discerning reader not needing to eisegete the scriptures to know it is referring to a future time and event, not related to present circumstances. Here are some classic and obvious examples.

“7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book....
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be...
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. ”
Revelation 22:7, 12, 20 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

In the above Jesus is telling the apostle John, "I come quickly".
Present tense. The context of His coming includes associated plagues, final decisions regarding eternal destinies, the exclusion of sinners, and a closing of all human probation with no subsequent possible changes of mind. This is an end time scenario so cannot be a reference to a spiritual coming during John's time.
“He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. ”
Revelation 22:11 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

 

[Hiddenthings]

Mmm. So His heavenly Father's house is not in heaven?

Out of interest how do you deal with Rev 5:10

"You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth"

The Greek verb is in the present tense: “they reign.” The four living creatures and the elders sing their song at the time when Christ prevails over his enemies and the world acknowledges his power (v13). This is speaking at the beginning of his reign on Earth.

At that point, the book is fully opened in the sense that its contents are fulfilled. From there, they look back over the now-unfolded course of history and acknowledge that the triumph of the Millennium flows from the victory of Calvary, accomplished through the resurrection of the Lord. For the earthly rule of the redeemed (Revelation 20:4–6)

If this is pushed to a third advent at the end of the millennial age, then Christ and the saints are no longer reigning, since the earth is handed back to God and He becomes all in all.