When Jesus returns at the last trumpet, death will be swallowed up in victory and there will then be no more death, which will fulfill Isaiah 25:8.

[Jay Ross]

Correct spelling is "kainos".

2 Corinthians 3:6 KJV
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Every English Bible version translates "kainos" in this verse as "new", not as "fresh".

That is the problem as it is not presenting the right context of what has been written in the Greek text.

You quoted 2 Cor 3.6 and it highlights how by translating "Kainos" as simply "new" it has reinforced that God is not the same yesterday, today or tomorrow however if it is translated as "refreshed" the three times this Greek Root word is imbedded three times in the Greek word "καινῆς", showing that the silent and unwritten "Salvation Covenant" has been refreshed.

In Jer 31:31ff God will not make a "Brand New" covenant with the nation but that He will rather refresh the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the Nations Covenant which He had initially made with the nation of Israel at Mt. Sinai. The text in Jer 31 makes this plainly clear.

Sadly, many Christians want a "Brand New Covenant" that no longer ties any covenant that God may have made, or will make, with the nation of Israel, with respect to their relationship with God. They are mistaken and their theology condemns them..

Jesus said the something similar in Mat 13:52.

The Salvation Covenant has not been changed, however, the process by which it will now be administrated has. Know what I mean?

 

[covenantee]

That is the problem as it is not presenting the right context of what has been written in the Greek text.

It's not a problem for the unanimous understanding of the translators of Every English Bible version.

There are more than sixty of them.

It's not a problem for me either.

Have you contacted any of them to inform them of what you consider to be their error?

If not, you should.

Tell us what they say.

 

[Jay Ross]

It's not a problem for the unanimous understanding of the translators of Every English Bible version.

There are more than sixty of them.

It's not a problem for me either.

Have you contacted any of them to inform them of what you consider to be their error?

If not, you should.

Tell us what they say.

They are all scared of their clientele who dislike change even if it is a lie in translating the original text.

You know the parable of putting the young wine into new wineskins which is the way this parable has been universally translated? Even "new" wineskins need to be "refreshed" if they have aged and become old hard and brittle and will burst.

Just because many people believe that something they have been told is true even though it is not, does not make it true because of the peoples, belief/trust in those who teach them.

 

[covenantee]

They are all scared of their clientele

Evidence?

 

[Jay Ross]

Evidence?

They only make microscopic changes to the translated text so as to not endure the wrath of their clientele.

 

[covenantee]

They only make microscopic changes to the translated text so as to not endure the wrath of their clientele.

Evidence?

 

[Jay Ross]

Evidence?

Your stubbornness to accept the truth.

 

[covenantee]

Your stubbornness to accept the truth.

Nothing to do with me.

Because it's not "the truth". It's "your truth".

Your truth demands your evidence.

What is it?

 

[Jay Ross]

Nothing to do with me.

Because it's not "the truth". It's "your truth".

Your truth demands your evidence.

What is it?

but you are a stooge and a troll, I should have remembered who you really are.

 

[covenantee]

but you are a stooge and a troll, I should have remembered who you really are.

But you are a Greek god.

I remembered.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree with most of what you say, but I noticed that you don't use the KJV. What Bible translation do you use?

I do use the KJV, but also the NKJV and NIV and occasionally other translations. In any given situation I use the one that I think gives the true meaning of the verses the most clearly. Unless I'm talking to someone who I know has a clear translation preference. I normally will quote their preferred translation in that case so that we don't waste time arguing about which is the best translation. Are you a KJV-only person?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hi SI,

Now when you read a newspaper do you read it all about YOU? Hope not.

No, not at all. I rarely read the newspaper anymore, but that's another story. Why did you ask that question?

The same with God`s word. it is for us to read and learn from, but it is NOT all about US.

Of course.

Isaiah 25: 8 & 9 is God speaking to His people Israel bringing them comfort and revelation that He, God will finally do away with death and wipe all tears from their eyes. To get a right context we need to read all of what God has revealed to His people Israel. And Rev. 21 & 22 reveal that timing in the NHNE.

Then in 1 Cor. 15: 50 we read what Jesus the Head of His Body is telling them. `WE, yes WE not Israel but we, the Body of Christ formed when the Lord ascended to the Father. Death is swallowed up as WE yes WE, the Body of Christ are changed and be taken to glory.

When WE are taken there will still be Israel and the nations on the earth to be dealt with.

Note important phrase - `the dead IN CHRIST.` That is ONLY those in the Body of Christ. 1 Thess. 4: 14 - 17.

2 Peter 3: 10 describes the Day of the LORD PERIOD OF TIME. The Greek word for DAY is a period of time and a specific day. To know the difference we need to read the CONTEXT. This you are not doing but placing everything in one day. And that does NOT work.

You are very hard to follow. Are you saying you don't think Isaiah 25:8-9 is about the church and is instead about Israel even though Paul applies it to the church in 1 Corinthians 15:50-54?

Do you have anything to say about how the timing of the fulfillment of Isaiah 25:8-9 is shown in both 1 Corinthians 15:54 and Revelation 21:4, which would suggest that the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth occurs around the time when the last trumpet sounds?

 

[Marilyn C]

No, not at all. I rarely read the newspaper anymore, but that's another story. Why did you ask that question?


Of course.


You are very hard to follow. Are you saying you don't think Isaiah 25:8-9 is about the church and is instead about Israel even though Paul applies it to the church in 1 Corinthians 15:50-54?

Do you have anything to say about how the timing of the fulfillment of Isaiah 25:8-9 is shown in both 1 Corinthians 15:54 and Revelation 21:4, which would suggest that the ushering in of the new heavens and new earth occurs around the time when the last trumpet sounds?

I brought up the newspaper, (realizing that many don`t read them now) because it has articles about different people. The Bible also has writings about different people, and we are not to read them as all about us. This is what I think you do.

Isa. 25: 8-9 is not about the church, the called-out ones, as they had not been revealed till Jesus revealed that revelation to the apostle Paul. Thus, there is NO revelation of the Body of Christ in the Old Testament. What we read this scripture is regarding death swallowed up forever, which we know is at the end of time.

I Cor. 15: 50 - 54 reveals the great truth of Isa. 25: 8 that `death is swallowed up in victory,` however the timing is not at the end of time but when the Lord comes to gather His Body to glory.

Rev. 21: 4 reveals the wonderful New Jerusalem which comes down out of heaven from God. The OT saints and the 12 disciples will be there, and it is them that have their tears wiped etc.

As I said earlier you seem to think that all scripture is about us when it really for us to read and learn from other`s mistakes (1 Cor. 10: 6) and to learn about God revealing His Son to us throughout time. (Luke 24: 27 and Revelation, the 4 visions of the Lord)

 

[jeffweeder]

I brought up the newspaper, (realizing that many don`t read them now) because it has articles about different people. The Bible also has writings about different people, and we are not to read them as all about us. This is what I think you do.

Isa. 25: 8-9 is not about the church, the called-out ones, as they had not been revealed till Jesus revealed that revelation to the apostle Paul. Thus, there is NO revelation of the Body of Christ in the Old Testament. What we read this scripture is regarding death swallowed up forever, which we know is at the end of time.

I Cor. 15: 50 - 54 reveals the great truth of Isa. 25: 8 that `death is swallowed up in victory,` however the timing is not at the end of time but when the Lord comes to gather His Body to glory.

Rev. 21: 4 reveals the wonderful New Jerusalem which comes down out of heaven from God. The OT saints and the 12 disciples will be there, and it is them that have their tears wiped etc.

As I said earlier you seem to think that all scripture is about us when it really for us to read and learn from other`s mistakes (1 Cor. 10: 6) and to learn about God revealing His Son to us throughout time. (Luke 24: 27 and Revelation, the 4 visions of the Lord)

MATT 8
11 I say to you that many [Gentiles] will come from east and west, and will sit down [to feast at the table, and enjoy God’s promises] with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven [because they accepted Me as Savior], 12 while the sons and heirs of the kingdom [the descendants of Abraham who will not recognize Me as Messiah] will be thrown out into the outer darkness; in that place [which is farthest removed from the kingdom] there will be weeping [in sorrow and pain] and grinding of teeth [in distress and anger].”


The body consists of Gentiles, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
God is calling out all people everywhere to repent.


All who recognize Jesus are Born again of his Spirit and God saved this one new Man. One Family, one household not different groups, Jesus defines us through grace not race.

Act 17
30 Therefore God overlooked and disregarded the former ages of ignorance; but now He commands all people everywhere to repent [that is, to change their old way of thinking, to regret their past sins, and to seek God’s purpose for their lives], 31 because He has set a day when He will judge the inhabited world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed and destined for that task, and He has provided credible proof to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

 

[FredVB]

Prophecies for future fulfillment are for different times, and some are easily fooled into misunderstanding scriptures from that. There will be no more death after this world with the restoration of creation in the new earth. There will be more death, there, and then. No creatures, which come to this, will die, or be killed, because... there will be no more death. There will be no more sorrow.

I am not convinced we can dismiss the millennium of Christ's reign on this earth. There are many views about eschatology so then it is easy for any to get things wrong. I do not assume I would have everything straight about it, but salvation we have is not ever dependent on our eschatological views. There are prophecies to be fulfilled in this world that never were yet. And there is a definite collapse coming that is not far off.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I brought up the newspaper, (realizing that many don`t read them now) because it has articles about different people. The Bible also has writings about different people, and we are not to read them as all about us. This is what I think you do.

Well, you think wrong.

Isa. 25: 8-9 is not about the church, the called-out ones, as they had not been revealed till Jesus revealed that revelation to the apostle Paul.

How can you say this when Paul quotes the fulfillment of Isaiah 25:8 in relation to the time when the bodies of everyone in the church are changed to put on bodily immortality (1 Corinthians 15:54)?

Thus, there is NO revelation of the Body of Christ in the Old Testament.

What does this even mean? Do you not understand that there are things in the Old Testament that were purposely obscured, but revealed in the New Testament, such as the fact that Gentile believers are fellow heirs with Israelite believers of God's promises because of what Jesus Christ has done by bringing all believers, Jew and Gentile, together in one body (Ephesians 3:1-6)?

What we read this scripture is regarding death swallowed up forever, which we know is at the end of time.

I Cor. 15: 50 - 54 reveals the great truth of Isa. 25: 8 that `death is swallowed up in victory,` however the timing is not at the end of time but when the Lord comes to gather His Body to glory.

Hello? Paul references Isaiah 25:8 in relation to an event involving the church and, yet, you somehow deny that Isaiah 25:8 has to do with the church? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Rev. 21: 4 reveals the wonderful New Jerusalem which comes down out of heaven from God. The OT saints and the 12 disciples will be there, and it is them that have their tears wiped etc.

LOL. Are you kidding me here? I can't believe you are being serious. Do you think Paul was mistaken to quote Isaiah 25:8 in relation to an event involving the church? The New Jerusalem is "the bride, the wife of the Lamb" (Revelation 21:9). It's a symbolic representation of the church. To say it is just for the OT saints and the 12 disciples is ridiculous. No, the new Jerusalem is the church and we will dwell as the New Jerusalem, the bride of Christ, on the new earth for eternity.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Do you understand that 2 Peter 3:13 applies to everyone in the church? Are you looking for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells? That's what you should be looking for. It is when the new heavens and new earth is ushered in that God will wipe away the tears from off all of our faces. Not just OT saints and the disciples. All believers. All believers are part of one body thanks to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Your continual attempt to divide God's people into separate groups blatantly contradicts scripture and it is completely unacceptable.

As I said earlier you seem to think that all scripture is about us when it really for us to read and learn from other`s mistakes (1 Cor. 10: 6) and to learn about God revealing His Son to us throughout time. (Luke 24: 27 and Revelation, the 4 visions of the Lord)

I have never said one thing to indicate that I think all scripture is about us (assuming you mean "us" is the church). That is a baseless opinion of yours. When the Israelites were in captivity in Egypt and Babylon, that was not about us. That was about events involving the nation of Israel. When Noah and his familiy built the ark to avoid being destroyed by the flood, that was not about us. I could give many more examples in scripture that were not about us. So, stop this nonsense of claiming that I seem to think that all scripture is about us. Most scripture is about Jesus Christ. Some is about creation. Some is about Noah and the flood. Some is about Israel. Some is about other things. The New Testament is mostly about Jesus Christ and His church.

 

[Marilyn C]

MATT 8
11 I say to you that many [Gentiles] will come from east and west, and will sit down [to feast at the table, and enjoy God’s promises] with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven [because they accepted Me as Savior], 12 while the sons and heirs of the kingdom [the descendants of Abraham who will not recognize Me as Messiah] will be thrown out into the outer darkness; in that place [which is farthest removed from the kingdom] there will be weeping [in sorrow and pain] and grinding of teeth [in distress and anger].”


The body consists of Gentiles, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
God is calling out all people everywhere to repent.


All who recognize Jesus are Born again of his Spirit and God saved this one new Man. One Family, one household not different groups, Jesus defines us through grace not race.

Act 17
30 Therefore God overlooked and disregarded the former ages of ignorance; but now He commands all people everywhere to repent [that is, to change their old way of thinking, to regret their past sins, and to seek God’s purpose for their lives], 31 because He has set a day when He will judge the inhabited world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed and destined for that task, and He has provided credible proof to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

The Body of Christ is the NEW MAN, (as you said) not Gentile or Jew etc. We are called OUT OF Israel and the Gentiles. We are not known by the name `Gentile` anymore.

As to Abraham, etc he is part of the `spirits of just/righteous men who are in the General Assembly in the third heaven awaiting their inheritance. Note that the church, the Boody of Christ is there too and are a different group.

`...to the General Assembly and church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect.` (Heb. 12: 23)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Body of Christ is the NEW MAN, (as you said) not Gentile or Jew etc. We are called OUT OF Israel and the Gentiles. We are not known by the name `Gentile` anymore.

As to Abraham, etc he is part of the `spirits of just/righteous men who are in the General Assembly in the third heaven awaiting their inheritance. Note that the church, the Boody of Christ is there too and are a different group.

`...to the General Assembly and church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect.` (Heb. 12: 23)

Abraham is in the body of Christ along with all believers from all-time. You are sadly mistaken. Your attempts to divide what Jesus brought together as one are sickening to me. Do you not understand that Old Testament saints are saved by the blood of Christ just as we are? There is no other name by which anyone has ever been saved (Acts 4:12). They ate the same spiritual food and drank of the same spiritual Rock that we do, which is Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

Why would Paul say that we are Abraham's seed because of belonging to Christ if Abraham did not also belong to Christ and was not also part of the body of Christ with us?

Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Marilyn C]

Abraham is in the body of Christ along with all believers from all-time. You are sadly mistaken. Your attempts to divide what Jesus brought together as one are sickening to me. Do you not understand that Old Testament saints are saved by the blood of Christ just as we are? There is no other name by which anyone has ever been saved (Acts 4:12). They ate the same spiritual food and drank of the same spiritual Rock that we do, which is Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

Why would Paul say that we are Abraham's seed because of belonging to Christ if Abraham did not also belong to Christ and was not also part of the body of Christ with us?

Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I agree that Abraham and OT saints are made righteous because of Jesus. However, their inheritance is in the city which comes down out of heaven from God. (Heb. 11: 16 Rev. 21: 2)

But the Body of Christ`s inheritance is with the Lord on His own throne in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21)

 

[Marilyn C]

Well, you think wrong.


How can you say this when Paul quotes the fulfillment of Isaiah 25:8 in relation to the time when the bodies of everyone in the church are changed to put on bodily immortality (1 Corinthians 15:54)?


What does this even mean? Do you not understand that there are things in the Old Testament that were purposely obscured, but revealed in the New Testament, such as the fact that Gentile believers are fellow heirs with Israelite believers of God's promises because of what Jesus Christ has done by bringing all believers, Jew and Gentile, together in one body (Ephesians 3:1-6)?



Hello? Paul references Isaiah 25:8 in relation to an event involving the church and, yet, you somehow deny that Isaiah 25:8 has to do with the church? That makes no sense whatsoever.


LOL. Are you kidding me here? I can't believe you are being serious. Do you think Paul was mistaken to quote Isaiah 25:8 in relation to an event involving the church? The New Jerusalem is "the bride, the wife of the Lamb" (Revelation 21:9). It's a symbolic representation of the church. To say it is just for the OT saints and the 12 disciples is ridiculous. No, the new Jerusalem is the church and we will dwell as the New Jerusalem, the bride of Christ, on the new earth for eternity.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Do you understand that 2 Peter 3:13 applies to everyone in the church? Are you looking for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells? That's what you should be looking for. It is when the new heavens and new earth is ushered in that God will wipe away the tears from off all of our faces. Not just OT saints and the disciples. All believers. All believers are part of one body thanks to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Your continual attempt to divide God's people into separate groups blatantly contradicts scripture and it is completely unacceptable.


I have never said one thing to indicate that I think all scripture is about us (assuming you mean "us" is the church). That is a baseless opinion of yours. When the Israelites were in captivity in Egypt and Babylon, that was not about us. That was about events involving the nation of Israel. When Noah and his familiy built the ark to avoid being destroyed by the flood, that was not about us. I could give many more examples in scripture that were not about us. So, stop this nonsense of claiming that I seem to think that all scripture is about us. Most scripture is about Jesus Christ. Some is about creation. Some is about Noah and the flood. Some is about Israel. Some is about other things. The New Testament is mostly about Jesus Christ and His church.

Paul is just stating a truth, and that truth for the Body of Christ is when we are caught away to glory. The time for others will be at the end of the millennium.

The Body of Christ is the NEW Man coming to a perfect man, sons to glory. It is NOT female!

I`m glad you don`t think all of scripture is about us, however, you do seem to apply some parts of the OT to us.