Maybe I Am Not Understanding the Post Tribulation Rapture. - Can You Help?

[The Light]

That of course what you say is a LIE. There is no such concept of a Pre-tribulational Rapture written of in God's Word.

1 Thes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

That idea is NOT WRITTEN IN GOD'S WORD.

Again, that idea is NOT WRITTEN IN GOD'S WORD.

Revelation 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

And still once again, neither is that idea written in God's Word.

Do you not understand that Jesus is talking to the Jews in Matthew 24 about what will happen to them?
Matthew 10
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

By what my Lord Jesus Christ said below, He revealed that HIS elect WILL GO THROUGH THE GREAT TRIBULATION...

Matt 24:21-22
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
KJV

Jesus would never have said the above about HIS "elect's sake" involving that "great tribulation" if they are not meant to go through it. So not only does the false Pre-trib Rapture doctrine you keep LIE against the actual written Bible Scriptures, but also lies against what Lord Jesus Himself said!

And in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, Jesus emphatically showed that the time of His coming to gather the Church will be AFTER... the "great tribulation".

Jesus is talking about Israel in those verses. Do you not understand that the great tribulation is the time of Jacobs trouble and that Old Testament Israel is called the elect also.
Isaiah 45
4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

MOCK all you want then, but you only pile up hot coals on your head which The LORD will place upon you, and hopefully purge your soul from the wicked doctrines of men you instead hold as truth.

I have mocked nothing. Your ignorance and lack of understanding lead you to false conclusions.

You might start here.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[The Light]

Verse 29 is about the DOTL event, the asteroid impact in the middle of the week brings "TROUBLES & DARKNESS" as Rev. 8 shows. Trumps 1-4 is one event, an asteroid impact, the Seals prophesy this event beforetime.

This is incorrect. Verse 29 is clearly marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. Verse 29 occurs at the 6th seal.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Trumps 1-4 occur in the seventh seal which is NOT OPENED until the 6th seal is complete.

So, vs. 29 is not the 2nd Coming and there is no such thing, it is referring unto the 2nd advent not a 2nd coming,

Incorrect.

Contrary to popular opinion the 2nd coming occurs at the 6th seal and has nothing to do with the 2nd advent which occur at the end of the trumpets and vials after Jesus returns with the armies of heaven for Armageddon.

All this 2nd coming stuff is just people who do nit understand, there are two advents not two comings. Therefore they take a NON EVENT, and say Jesus can't not rapture the church then return with the church, all because they have erred in their understandings from the get go.

The second coming occurs at the 6th seal. All eyes will see the coming of the Lord. Jesus remains in the clouds. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. The Church is gathered from heaven and Jews are raptured from the earth. There are 144,000 first fruits before this rapture occurs. All return to heaven for the marriage supper and are the great multitude seen in heaven in Revelation 7.

The scriptures below are the second coming of Matthew 24:29-31. Jesus remains in the clouds. This harvest occurs before the 7th seal wrath of God.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Back to verse 29, it is obvious it is about the middle of the week asteroid impact that begins the 1260 day DOTL/Wrath of God events.

The wrath of God lasts one year.

The Day of the Lord occurs in one day when Jesus returns with the armies of heaven at Armageddon.

We know the 1st Woe lasts 5 months, so that does away with the whole IMMEDIATELY AFTER thesis,

Brother,
Immediately after the tribulation occurs at the 6th seal. The great tribulation is over when the 6th seal is opened. It is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

The great tribulation is when the dragon is killing the Jews and Christians(who are mostly Jews as the Church is raptured before the great tribulation).

The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal and there is a harvest when Jesus comes (Matt 24:29-31) and sends His angels to gather the elect.

The 7th seal is the wrath of God. It will be one year before Jesus returns for Armageddon with the armies of heaven.

its specifically says immediately after the tribulation [ARRIVES on earth] the Sun and Moon goes dark, yes that will happen after the 1/3 of the worlds trees burn, and think will this fire jump across an ocean? No, the 1/3 identifies a destination, the New World will get judged with fire, the Old World will be hit with the plagues of God to preserve the old world for Jesus' 1000 year rule.

None of the this happens until the tribulation is over and the 7th seal is opened.

In Rev. 14:14 we see the Pre Trib. Rapture with Jesus himself harvesting us the church, notice and Angel sticks in the sickle to harvest in verses 17-20, but Jesus from upon a cloud harvests the church.

That is not the pretribulation rapture that is shown in Revelation 14.

The pretribulation rapture happens before the great tribulation. Revelation 14:14 is the gathering from heaven and earth that occurs at the 6th seal...........before the 7th seal wrath of God.

 

[amigo de christo]

The great and mighty DAY of THE LORD draws ever nigh .
To the LORD be all the glory and all the praise .
All outside shall wail . Dont expect a second chance on that day .
EITHER you were HIS or prepare to wail .

 

[GodsGrace]

Please give me your opinion.

Let me make sure I understand the post tribulation rapture.

Are these verses in Matthew 24 considered the same event as the verses in Revelation 19 below?

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Whether you are post tribulation or Pre trib, Mid trib, Pre wrath etc. I would like your opinion and also are you post trib, pre trib, mid trib etc. Let's make sure we are on the same page.

Are the above verses describing the one and only coming of Jesus?
The more opinions, the better.

Yes.
It's the same.
There is only ONE return of Jesus.
The rapture just means that those still living at the end of the world will be raptured/caught up with Christ.

Jesus is coming back ONE TIME....
Not two.

Also, may I add, that Revelation has a lot of truth and also a lot of literal teachings....
but one should not consider Revelation for creating doctrine - at least not ONLY Revelation.
(as is happening in post 82).

But you've correctly matched two scriptures.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes.
It's the same.
There is only ONE return of Jesus.
The rapture just means that those still living at the end of the world will be raptured/caught up with Christ.

Jesus is coming back ONE TIME....
Not two.

Also, may I add, that Revelation has a lot of truth and also a lot of literal teachings....
but one should not consider Revelation for creating doctrine - at least not ONLY Revelation.
(as is happening in post 82).

But you've correctly matched two scriptures.

You betcha my friend . He is coming back ONE TIME , not twice .
The rapture simply means exactly what pual said .
WE will be caught up ON HIS ONE TIME COMING
Now if anyone would have also bothered to have read his second let ter to the thessalonians
IT really confirms this .
GOD will come to put down wrath , tribulation against ALL who had persecuted the church .
WHEN .
WHEN HE COMETH FOR HIS CHURCH . YES ITS A ONE TIME EVENT ALL RIGHT .
the first chapter of second thess MAKES THAT REAL REAL CLEAR . read it again and see .
GUESS what the world would look like nigh the end .
INQUITY would be abouding , and as peter and both paul wrote
MANY seducers , many false teachers would be decieving , YES EVEN the churches .
AND here is a real big kicker
THEY would be chanting something . PEACE N SAFETY .
WOW . lets go look at this huge f alse lovey do many path bull dung
that interreligious dialgoue ecumenical interfaith be preaching .
IT SAYS TO ALL THE FALSE RELIGOINS , HEY WE ALL SERVE THE SAME GOD
WE ALL just coming to him differently . ANTI CHRIST
and THEY BLEIEVE TH IS path is the means TO WORLD PEACE N SAFETY . wow .
LOOKS LIKE TIME REALLY IS RUNNING OUT .

 

[The Light]

Yes.
It's the same.
There is only ONE return of Jesus.
The rapture just means that those still living at the end of the world will be raptured/caught up with Christ.

Jesus is coming back ONE TIME....
Not two.

Also, may I add, that Revelation has a lot of truth and also a lot of literal teachings....
but one should not consider Revelation for creating doctrine - at least not ONLY Revelation.
(as is happening in post 82).

But you've correctly matched two scriptures.

Thank you for your opinion, God's Grace

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Hi Grace. Thanks for your response.

You are quite welcome. Is your understanding 'post-trib' increasing?

 

[The Light]

You are quite welcome. Is your understanding 'post-trib' increasing?

I believe there are two raptures. One pre trib and one post trib which is pre wrath.

I was post trib years ago before realizing post trib is really pre wrath.

All those that think they are post trib are really post wrath.

 

[ewq1938]

I believe there are two raptures. One pre trib and one post trib which is pre wrath.

There is only one rapture of the saved.

I was post trib years ago before realizing post trib is really pre wrath.

All those that think they are post trib are really post wrath.

Post Trib is Pre wrath since the trib ends, then the rapture happens then God's wrath starts.

 

[The Light]

There is only one rapture of the saved.

if that was true there would not be 144,000 first fruits of the second rapture

Post Trib is Pre wrath since the trib ends, then the rapture happens then God's wrath starts.

This is correct, but you are talking about the second rapture.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

I believe there are two raptures. One pre trib and one post trib which is pre wrath.

Thanks for the update; did you know there is also a third rapture?

1) The Body Of Christ's [ our own ] Great GRACE Departure! (Pre-trib)
+
2) Israel's two witnesses "ascended up to heaven" (Revelation 11:11-12 AV) (mid/pre-wrath?), And:

3) Israel's 144,000 "sealed on earth" (Revelation 7:4-8 AV), and then "redeemed
from the earth, And found before *The Throne Of God" (Revelation 14:3-5 AV) (mid/pre-wrath?)

No post-trib...

Amen.

 

[ewq1938]

if that was true there would not be 144,000 first fruits of the second rapture

There is no second rapture of the saved in the bible.

 

[The Light]

Thanks for the update; did you know there is also a third rapture?

1) The Body Of Christ's [ our own ] Great GRACE Departure! (Pre-trib)
+
2) Israel's two witnesses "ascended up to heaven" (Revelation 11:11-12 AV) (mid/pre-wrath?), And:

3) Israel's 144,000 "sealed on earth" (Revelation 7:4-8 AV), and then "redeemed
from the earth, And found before *The Throne Of God" (Revelation 14:3-5 AV) (mid/pre-wrath?)

No post-trib...

Amen.

Of course I knew that. I was not counting the two witnesses, nor the 144,000 first fruits raptures.

However, it seems you understand that the first harvest of the Gentiles will be before the great tribulation.

There is however at post trib which is pre wrath harvest that occurs at the 6th seal which is seen here.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

We can find this post trib/pre wrath harvest in Revelation......here.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

[The Light]

There is no second rapture of the saved in the bible.

We can find this second rapture which is post trib/pre wrath harvest in Revelation......here.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

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[ewq1938]

We can find this second rapture which is post trib/pre wrath harvest in Revelation......here.

That's the same one rapture of the saved.

 

[The Light]

That's the same one rapture of the saved.

The problem for that view is this rapture happens at the 6th seal and then unbelievers are cast into the wrath of God which is the 7th seal.

Of course, there are many things that you skip over and pretend they don't happen, so I got no clue what you have going on. What I do know is that it will not agree with the Word.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

[ewq1938]

The problem for that view is this rapture happens at the 6th seal and then unbelievers are cast into the wrath of God which is the 7th seal.

That's not Premil. The thread is for understanding Premil not sharing your own personal version of Pretrib...

 

[The Light]

That's not Premil. The thread is for understanding Premil not sharing your own personal version of Pretrib...

Dispensationalism is premil and you are free to police your own thread.

 

[rockytopva]

What was the first question the disciples asked in Acts?

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. - Acts 1

No timeline given. And what was the last answer given in the Book or Revelation?

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. - Revelation 22

So the timing of the Rapture, or the calling away of the church is something that we do not know. So how do we advise those not willing to watch and wait for it? Well... The Lord has the power to come and execute judgement whenever he pleases.

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. - Revelation 3:3

 

[GodsGrace]

We can find this second rapture which is post trib/pre wrath harvest in Revelation......here.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

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TL
I did state that Revelation should not be used for doctrinal purposes.
Some do practice this.

You've quoted Revelation above .....

Here it is:

Could you just take the time to explain EXACTLY where in those verses you see two raptures......

Thanks.


Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.