Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?

[saved by grace 101]

Yes sir.
I wrote the above.



Very simple to explain:
Romans 7:4.....
We died to the Law...to one husband...
so that we could belong to someone else...a different husband.

The new husband is Jesus.
We belong to Him when we believe IN Him.
Does this mean we are no longer required to obey Him?
MAY IT NEVER BE!


Romans 7:12-13
12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be!



Romans 7:4
Your verse...it states we are to bear fruit for God.
Jesus said that if we do not bear fruit...we will be cut off.

John 15:1-2
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;


If we do not obey,
we will be cut off.


Romans 7:5


When we followed the Law....we did not have God's commandments in our heart.
Man tried to et away with what he could.
The Law just made us aware of sin, but it could not CHANGE US and we do need to be changed.


Romans 12:1-2
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.



Romans 7:6

We are freed from having to obey by our own power...
we are freed to obey out of love for Jesus.
We're free to live a life of freedom to serve God in love.

Let's also move on to:

Romans 7:7
7 So what are we going to say? That the Law is sin? Absolutely not! But I wouldn't have known sin except through the Law. I wouldn't have known the desire for what others have if the Law had not said, Don't desire to take what others have.

The Law served to let man know about sin.
We need to know the rules before we can obey them - yes, even out of love.

You cannot die to the law, if you must obey it to remiain justified before God, which is what you in effect believe
Yes, the commandment is holy, just and good. Therefore it was not the commandment that brought death to Paul, but sin taking occasion of the commandment to arouse all manner of concupiscence in him(verse 8 KJV) Because: The power of sin is the law.
Rom 7:5 confirms the above verse:
Sinfull passions are aroused in us by the law if we live under it.
Rom12:1&2 hinges on believing Paul's core message. You must die to righteousness of obeying the law. Yet you hinge justification on obeying the TC.
Your view of Rom7:6 is not what is stated. We are released from the law so we serve in the new way of the spirit, NOT the old way of the wrotten code/law. Impossible to do under the statement ''You MUST obey the TC
Think we better quote verses7-13, that gives the whole picture:
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Now the reason Paul keeps stressing you cannot be justified by obeying the law

So you admit you reject the Law of Christ which is to be led by the Holy Spirit to live in obeisance to the Lord and you claim you can live for satan in disobedience to the Lord giving Jesus the middle finger and still be saved?

Sounds like you are reprobate.

 

[saved by grace 101]

So you admit you reject the Law of Christ which is to be led by the Holy Spirit to live in obeisance to the Lord and you claim you can live for satan in disobedience to the Lord giving Jesus the middle finger and still be saved?

Sounds like you are reprobate.

Sounds more like you need to come to an understanding of Paul's core message

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Sounds more like you need to come to an understanding of Paul's core message

The false teachers claim Paul's core message is we can live in sin and still be saved.

They do twist the teaching's the Lord provided through the Apostle Paul to their own destruction

The Lord warned us in His Word about this saying these false teachers are unlearned and unstable:

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes Paul is quite explicit, we die to the law in order to bear fruit for God, we are released from it and serve in the new way of the Spirit not the old way of the written code law.
Yet you say: We MUST obey the TC, that doesn't gel with what Paul wrote. And what you really mean is, we must obey a watered down version of the TC, for Paul termed that law the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation. Only problem is, there is no watered down version of the TC in the bible.

Yes sir.
The 10 Commanements are NOT watered down.

Jesus doubled down on them...
Just hating someone has now become like murder.

You do not like the word MUST.
How would you explain obedience to God?

Maybe:
We obey IF WE WANT TO....
but if we don't want to, it's OK because we're not under the Law.

THAT would be a watered down version of the Ten Commandments.


Jesus taught that we are to obey the Commandments and also teach others to obey them:

Matthew 5:19-20
19 Therefore, whoever ignores one of the least of these commands and teaches others to do the same will be called the lowest in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever keeps these commands and teaches people to keep them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 I say to you that unless your righteousness is greater than the righteousness of the legal experts and the Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Our righteousness must be greater than that of the Pharisees.

 

[GodsGrace]

Which law are you referring to?

The OT law given under Moses or the Law of Christ given under the Lordship of Jesus in the New Testament?

ANY law.
@saved by grace 101 should not be making personal statements about any member.
He should not be stating how HE believes I feel about anything since ONLY I can know that.
He should stick to posting scripture and replying to it.

When a member makes personal statements it means they have no good reply to what is being discussed.

Anyway, we're not under the Law.
I think we all know this.

Actually it most cases it does because the false teachers like to try and trick people in to giving a yes or no response when a question cannot be answered in that format.

They get this from the liberal baby killin perverts who are trying to turn our nation in to a communist state and they got it from their daddy the devil.

Some replies can be very simple.

What do YOU reply?

AFTER salvation, are we required to obey God?

My simple reply is:
YES.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Jesus doubled down on them...

Actually He raised the standard.

Under the OT one could lust after women all they wanted and it was not a sin unless they did the deed.
In the NT it's a sin to lust after the women even if one doesn't do the deed.

Same with murder as under the OT you could hate and want to murder all you wanted and it was not a sin unless you actually murdered the person.

In the NT hating and/or wanting to murder someone is a sin even if you don't whack 'em

We are called to be led of the Holy Spirit in the NT, but under the OT they were called to obey commandments as they did not have the Holy Spirit on the inside since the New Birth was not available to them yet.

 

[GodsGrace]

I know your beliefs.
Yahweh was the only God in the Old Testament......Then He had a Son! Later He said that He was pleased with Him.....Then later Yeshua said that Yahweh was greater than Him.....Then Later Yeshua said He did not do His will but the will of Yahweh.....Then later Yeshua prayed to Yahweh....Then later Yeshua said that Yahweh was His God.
Over 50 MY father scriptures.

The belief of the construct of the Trinty or Godhead is not a salvation thing, or a contingent of whether a person is or is not a Christ, that is why I am OK with people believing different things about it.

The McKenzie Bible Dictionary explains it this way.... “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly or formally a biblical belief.” Which hold true to the fact that the word Trinity does not occur in the Holy Bible

OK
We will not debate.

But I do want to say that the Godhead/Trinity is found all throughout scripture.
It was only CONFIRMED in the 4th centruy --- exactly 325AD precisely because some sects were teaching that Jesus was not God...this was known as Arianism and the church wanted to make sure that it was understood that it was an incorrect teaching.

I know that this is not exactly what you believe...but you believe Jesus was created.
God cannot be created.
God existed from eternity past.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

ANY law.

OK so if you commit a sin you go sacrifice an animal to cover your sin, got it.

Anyway, we're not under the Law.

We ARE actually under the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus

aka the Law of Christ.

You might want to launch a study of this before continuing the discussion

Christians are not lawless

AFTER salvation, are we required to obey God?

We are but a simple yes answer will not suffice as this needs to be explained based on what the Lord teaches in the New Covenant.

If it's not explained then the false teachers will reply saying "you are trying to earn your salvation" and their false teaching hasn't been refuted with New Covenant scripture.

 

[GodsGrace]

The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56

So, you say to me:

‘’You MUST obey the TC’’

I say to you

‘What happens if I don’t obey them?’

You respond to me:

‘Then you cannot be in a saved/justified state’’ Nothing else you can say is there!

Please post the number of post where I stated what you've said above:

-----------------------------------------------
"You respond to me:

‘Then you cannot be in a saved/justified state’’ Nothing else you can say is there!"
------------------------------------------------

Unlike you,,,I know that I am not God.

So, if I believe you, I am now back under the law/righteousness of obeying the law. I can only be in a righteous/justified state if I obey the TC

If you believe that obeying God means you are under The Law

so be it.

Apparently you cannot understand what Paul is writing about.
Paul NEVER says that it is not necessary to obey God.

He gives many wanrings throughout his writings.

Here is one:

Romans 11:20-22
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited *, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Now the reason Paul keeps stressing you cannot be justified by obeying the law is because of the TC

Now remember, there is no watered down version of the TC in the bible, only the true version.

So you have told me, I can only be justified before God if I obey what Paul terms the letter that kills the ministry of death and condemnation

You don't understand the difference between the Law and the Law of Christ.
The obedience of Faith.

Paul wants to bring about the obedience of faith.

Romans 1:5
5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,

Therefore, to remain justified:
I must not dwell on any impure thought

I must never put anything before God in my life

I must not tell any even little fib about another

I must not erect any graven image in my mind

I must not desire anything of my neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household.
Just a few examples

Thou shalt NOT, no wiggle room for error, perfectly obey the TC or stand guilty before them

And, the power of sin is now in my life for I am living under the law

You knew all this-right?

Silly comment.
No reply.
Please use scripture.

 

[Grailhunter]

OK
We will not debate.

But I do want to say that the Godhead/Trinity is found all throughout scripture.
It was only CONFIRMED in the 4th centruy --- exactly 325AD precisely because some sects were teaching that Jesus was not God...this was known as Arianism and the church wanted to make sure that it was understood that it was an incorrect teaching.

I know that this is not exactly what you believe...but you believe Jesus was created.
God cannot be created.
God existed from eternity past.

The ground work for this confusion started when they took God the Father's name out of the Old Testament replaced it with the word God or Lord 6,800 times....a lot of work to corrupt the scriptures.
The word God is a title.....not a name. Then people got hung up on the word God. In the Old Testament before they took Yahweh's name out of the scriptures the Old Testament very seldom referred to Yahweh as just God. Because in Hebrew the word for God and god are the same word. No capitals or lower case in Hebrew. So the only proper use of the word God was like....Yahweh your God. And it is never was Yeshua your God or Holy Spirit your God.

Long standing false beliefs are an interesting study, whether it be what were the Ten Commandment or Yeshua in the Old Testament or the 3 Gods in one person. I understand how people can take New Testament scriptures to believe that Yeshua was in the Old Testament, but those scriptures more or less rewrite the Old Testament. Yahweh appeared 6,800 times.....Yeshua zero. And it never said I am God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, but Yahweh repeatedly said He was the only God and there was no one like Him.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Anyway, we're not under the Law.

How can you not be under law?
You MUST obey the TC, that places you under the laW
And me giving you examples of what is entailed in obeying the TC, are ''silly comments'' in your view?

 

[saved by grace 101]

The false teachers claim Paul's core message is we can live in sin and still be saved.

They do twist the teaching's the Lord provided through the Apostle Paul to their own destruction

The Lord warned us in His Word about this saying these false teachers are unlearned and unstable:

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Why is the power of sin the law? 1Cor15:56
Why are sinfull passions aroused in us by the law Rom7:5
How/why was sin able to take occasion of one of the TC to arouse all manner of concupiscence in Saul Rom7:8
I am assured, neither you or God's Grace can answer those questions

 

[saved by grace 101]

Actually He raised the standard.

Under the OT one could lust after women all they wanted and it was not a sin unless they did the deed.

Not true, lust is covered by the tenth commandment

 

[saved by grace 101]

Yes sir.
The 10 Commanements are NOT watered down.



You do not like the word MUST.

The reason Paul keeps insisting you cannot be justified by obeying the law is because of the TC.

He states we die to the law in order to bear fruit for God, we are released from it and serve in the new way of the Spirit not the old way of the written code

He refers to the TC as the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation

What do you say?

You MUST obey the TC. Therefore, according to that statement you can only be righteous in God’s sight if you obey the law Paul says we die to, the law Paul states you cannot be righteous by obeying, the law Paul terms the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation.

And you think you understand Paul??

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

The Beatitudes

• “Blessed are the poor in spirit, ...
• Blessed are those who mourn, ...
• Blessed are the meek, ...
• Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, ...
• Blessed are the merciful, ...
• Blessed are the pure in heart, ...
• Blessed are the peacemakers, ...
• Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,

Blessed are the poor in spirit ? why.

This point came up with my atheist mate, I asked why is one blessed if they be lacking in Spirit ?
Atheist demands that he knows, because he is a full on Atheist that he is blessed ? because he is truly totaly lacking in the Holy Spirit. he thinks or demands he is blessed ? I say No !

I see such as because one knows they are lacking in the Holy Spirit it's only a blessing in that they have at least some faith ?

Stephen was Blessed for he was full of the Holy Spirit ! and Mary as well !

 

[Button]

Blessed are the poor in spirit ? why.

This point came up with my atheist mate, I asked why is one blessed if they be lacking in Spirit ?
Atheist demands that he knows, because he is a full on Atheist that he is blessed ? because he is truly totaly lacking in the Holy Spirit. he thinks or demands he is blessed ? I say No !

I see such as because one knows they are lacking in the Holy Spirit it's only a blessing in that they have at least some faith ?

Stephen was Blessed for he was full of the Holy Spirit ! and Mary as well

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" Matthew 5:3

I think it is referring to those who recognize their own deficit in the flesh to attain blessings by their own means. And the answer in that same blessing is turning to
spiritual dependence on God . And we are truly blessed, as we seek God and will inherit his kingdom.
As opposed to the proud materialist intellect that thinks they achieve all on their own.

 

[saved by grace 101]

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" Matthew 5:3

I think it is referring to those who recognize their own deficit in the flesh to attain blessings by their own means. And the answer in that same blessing is turning to
spiritual dependence on God . And we are truly blessed, as we seek God and will inherit his kingdom.
As opposed to the proud materialist intellect that thinks they achieve all on their own.

This is meant as a compliment, hope you take it as one. Ive met many people who believe a saturday sabbath should be observed. But to me, they always seems to lack something, for everything is the letter of scripture, you are different.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Yes sir.
The 10 Commanements are NOT watered down.


You do not like the word MUST.

When I gave you examples of obeying the TC you replied ‘’silly comment’’ and you wanted scripture, so I will accede to your request

Let’s start with the tenth commandment, for this is the one Paul used as the example of why he had to die to the law:

You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, OR ANYTHING THAT BELONGS TO YOUR NEIGHBOUR.

So, as I told you yesterday, you cannot covet/desire anything of your neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household, straight from the bible!

But we can go further than that:

for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. Rom7:7&8

So the tenth commandment covers lust/concupiscence. What does concupiscence mean? Check it out in any dictionary, it means strong sexual desire.

So, lust, sexual desire/impure thoughts are all covered by the tenth commandment. This commandment covers what goes on, on the inside of man, his thoughts/desires/coveting, it concerns law only you and God need know you break. Other commandments relate to what goes on, on the outside of man, ie, adultery, murder, stealing etc.



And as you stated:

‘’Yes sir.
The 10 Commandments are NOT watered down.’’

Lets take the ninth one.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

What does that mean? Lying about someone obviously. So, if you tell any even little fib about another, you transgress the commandment. Again, as you said:

‘’Yes sir.
The 10 Commandments are NOT watered down.’’

Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Jesus ratified that commandment, if you look at someone with lust in your eye you have transgressed it in your heart

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

That does not state the commandment is limited to getting a hammer and chisel and making a graven image out of stone does it! You can make/erect a graven image in your mind

I think that may be enough for now, if you want to continue let me know.

Just to repeat. You have stated:

‘’’No sir, the 10 commandments are NOT watered down’’

And you repeatedly state:

‘’We MUST obey the TC.’’

The bible again, Jesus words:

The measure you use to judge others WILL, WILL be used to judge you Matt7:2

Good luck

 

[Brakelite]

Brakelite
The 4th commandment has caused much contemplation in m Christian walk.
Here is the conflict as I see it: (not to change the subject - just an observance)
Observing the Sabbath would fall under the Ceremonial Law which has been abolished.
However: It IS one of the 10 commandments which God said are everlasting.

Can i explain the context as to why I chose the name Brakelite? Short version, when you see a brake-light light up in front of you on the highway, it isn't telling you what to do. It's merely waking you up to make a choice. You have options. Stop. Advance cautiously. Overtake and take your chances. Detour, or Uturn. So I cannot and will not tell anyone what to do. I merely offer biblical reasons why I do what I do, and share them as options. There are actually very few people who are not adventist, care at all about what we believe, let alone actually study our beliefs for themselves. Most in fact get their understanding of adventist doctrine from Utube videos made by those who have made it their business to attack us. So I appreciate your inquiry, and will respond as fairly and honestly as I can.
The way I see things is that the ceremonial sabbaths all had a few things in common. They all formed a part of the annual Jewish religious calender, and along with non Sabbath feast days, were integral parts of the gospel for OT Israel. The laws associated with the priesthood and the sanctuary and all the animal sacrifices including the sabbaths, were given to Moses separately from the Ten Commandments. Why?
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. ”
Galatians 3:19 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

Wherefore serveth what law? The sacrificial system. It was designed as an antidote to the sin problem. Until the Messiah comes. It provided a mediator... the high priest... who stood in the sanctuary on behalf of Israel, and for Israel... because of sin. He interceded for sinners before a holy God. He offered sacrifices under a specific timetable that mirrored prophetically the later ministry of Christ. All designed to deal with the sin problem.
Did God give the Ten Commandments knowing man was incapable of obeying them?

Yes He did. Which is precisely why the prophets currently reminded Israel of what is often purportedly to be a uniquely NT concept, that the just were to live by faith. Israel were called to obedience, but God never expected them to do it alone. That's where relationship comes in. Christians today abuse that relationship. They think it's all about them. How God removes His law, no longer expects obedience or faithfulness or duty or obligation; they think God has lowered the standard so they can get away with their addictions and their compromising and their worldliness and their unfaithfulness and treat Jesus like a get out of jail free card grazing in the back paddock like Israel did.
What do you think grace is? What do you believe grace was intended to accomplish? Do you think grace is merely a new testament concept? From the very beginning in Eden God was searching and longing and working towards establishing a relationship with mankind. Why? So that He could offer us His strength, His Spirit, His power, His righteousness, to all those who sought Him and submitted to the conditions. And there really was only two conditions. Believe, and be willing to obey. If we are willing, God will accomplish the impossible. His law will be written on our hearts. Like it was with Abraham. Enoch. David. Jeremiah. Elijah. Elisha. John the Baptist. Anna. Simeon. And Jesus.
Sadly, Christians today don't want to obey. They fight tooth and nail to find excuses and reasons to avoid it. And God gives them the desires of their hearts.
They demand a specific NT command to observe the Sabbath. When Jesus, "if ye love Me, keep My commandments", they reason He was talking only about NT commandments. They forget that He also said, that the two great commandments of love for God and neighbour, hang on all the law and the prophets. He also said not one iota of the law will be taken away or changed. Christians conveniently ignore that to. And while they challenge our obedience for all manner of presumptuous reasons, they don't have the boldness to explain how disobedience is justified.
Yes. The 4th commandment is a commandment, and was never a part of the annual Sabbath calendar which pointed to Christ and His ministry. It existed before sin entered the world, and therefore could not have been designed as a cure for sin.

That's my view. I could add a lot more of course. I've written countless posts defending the Sabbath. But honouring the Sabbath to keep it holy as the commandment requires will status be a choice. Just as with all the other commandments.

Interesting because it is plainly written in the new covenant era obeying a specific Saturday Sabbath is not required, you omitted to mention that, just as it is plainly written in the new covenant

That's a lie. Nowhere anywhere in scripture does it say that obedience to the Sabbath is not required. And that includes Romans 14, where the Sabbath is not mentioned. The Jews observed all manner of days, not all were annual sabbaths, let alone the weekly Sabbath of the Decalogue.