Sabbath Keeping - I would have been stoned

[Big Boy Johnson]

What isn't in scripture is God switching the day he made for man to Sunday.

I thought you knew something about God's Word. Obviously not.

If you did you'd know where in the New Testament was see the Apostles meeting on the first day of the week (Sunday)

They were being led by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ when doing so.

Is your claim that the Apostles missed hearing from the Lord thru the Holy Spirit and instead were being led by demons when they had meetings in Sunday?

 

[Aunty Jane]

The flesh did appear to die.
However,if you accept that Jesus was God in flesh, you must know God cannot be killed.

That is exactly the point...if Jesus was God, he could not die ...nor can mere humans kill God...they cannot kill any spirit being. But Jesus was not a spirit being...he was sent to the earth by his Father and he had to be 100% human to pay the set price of redemption. He died and was confined in his tomb for three days, until his God resurrected him. He likened his death to Jonah being confined in the belly of the fish for three day.

That is what the Bible says about Jesus....the ideas of men is what turned the Son into something he never was....something he never once claimed.

This is partly why Jesus said his enemies cannot take his life from him. He gives it up freely.

He chose to become the sacrifice because he loved mankind, having played an important role in creation as the one “through” whom all creation came to exist. (Col 1:15-17)

He also knew the power of the devil, and though he was his Father’s most trusted son....as Adam’s human equal, he was still endowed with free will. So much was resting on his shoulders, having existed with his Father for untold eons before the creation of anything else, he had proven his loyalty to his Father......and he knew that the destiny of the whole human race was in his hands......he also knew that satan, (having been given “all the kingdoms of the world” (Luke 4:5-7) with God giving him opportunity to prove his case as mankind’s god and ruler) was going to apply a lot of pressure on his humanity.

It's why Jesus said,we will know the truth and the truth shall set us free.

What do we get freedom from, do you think? What is that truth?...doesn’t everyone think they have it? They can’t all be right though.....

Fracturing the wholesome truth of Christ began in Nicea.

I believe that the rot set in much earlier than that....the Apostles said that an apostasy was “already at work” in Christianity, towards the end of the first century....something that they were ‘restraining’.

However,men,doctrine,denominations,
churches,do not save. Jesus saves.

I agree...God doesn’t read labels, he reads hearts...and when he see a responsive heart, he will “draw” that one to his truth, inviting them into his family. As it has always been, God’s people are a collective, who all know him....and he knows them. For Israel, he had laws to keep order among them, and all shared worship of one God and were guided by men appointed to lead.

Christianity was a whole different story....a new covenant, a new system of worship, and a simplified way to worship the God whom Jesus worships.....even in heaven, the Father is still his God. (Rev 3:12)

Many worship the Bible. That's a mistake.

Worship? Do you mean using the Bible to determine what is truth? Is it possible to determine the truth without it? How much should we rely on it? A little or a lot?

Why do you think God has preserved his word for thousands of years, despite all attempts to destroy it?
What part should it play in our faith?

 

[Adventageous]

Thanks but no thanks.

I don't sit under false doctrine

What about, Pro. 18:13,17 KJB in its counsel:

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Pro 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.​

Pro 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.​

You are still going to refuse to even read my chapters, and compare them to the word of God? What about 1 Thes. 5:19-21?

1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.​

1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.​

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.​

I do not remember the more noble Bereans disregarding what Paul had to say, simply because they already had a position they stood upon:

Act_17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.​

Hmm, what was the name of those people in scripture who refused to even consider another position differing than their own and stopped their ears and closed their eyes to anyone who came differing from their prespective? Who did they reject, because they expected something different according to their own system of belief / practices?

How can you judge something false, if you refuse to even consider it? Are your own thoughts the final arbiter of truth?

 

[Adventageous]

If you did you'd know where in the New Testament was see the Apostles meeting on the first day of the week (Sunday)

Since when does meeting on any given day of the week (OT or NT) replace a stated commandment of God (Exodus 20:8-11 KJB)? Why would a person conclude such? What are you assuming (incorrectly) by such an untenable position?

My book addresses this claim also.

In the Bible, in the OT and NT, there are texts which some attempt to utilize to say that there was a change in the solemnity of the 7th day to that of the first [day] of the week, and the following texts are often pointed to as ‘proving’ such to be the case:

Genesis 1:5 KJB - ... the first day.​

Genesis 1:5 HOT - ... יום אחד׃​

​

Matthew 28:1 KJB - ... the first day of the week, ...​

Matthew 28:1 GNT TR - ... εις μιαν σαββατων ...​

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Mark 16:2 KJB - ... the first day of the week, ...​

Mark 16:2 GNT TR -... πρωι της μιας σαββατων ...​

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Mark 16:9 KJB - ... the first day of the week, ...​

Mark 16:9 GNT TR - ... πρωι πρωτη σαββατου ...​

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Luke 24:1 KJB - ... the first day of the week, ...​

Luke 24:1 GNT TR - ... μια των σαββατων ...​

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John 20:1 KJB - The first day of the week ...​

John 20:1 GNT TR - τη δε μια των σαββατων ...​

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John 20:19 KJB - ... the first day of the week, ...​

John 20:19 GNT TR - ... τη μια των σαββατων ...​

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Acts 2:1 KJB - ... the day of Pentecost was fully come, ... (Pentecost, mathematically took place upon the first day of the week, being 50 days from firstfruits / wavesheaf, or Jesus’ resurrection.)​

Acts 2:1 GNT TR - ... τω συμπληρουσθαι την ημεραν της πεντηκοστης ...​

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Acts 20:7 KJB - ... the first day of the week, ...​

Acts 20:7 GNT TR - ... τη μια των σαββατων ...​

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1 Corinthians 16:2 KJB - ... the first day of the week ...​

1 Corinthians 16:2 GNT TR - ... μιαν σαββατων ...​

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Revelation 1:10 KJB - ... the Lord’s day, ... (Some assume this text refers to the first day, but it does not, as shall be seen in a bit.)​

Revelation 1:10 GNT TR - ... τη κυριακη ημερα ...​

Consider the true evaluation of those texts (in brief, or see the individual chapters on each text in detail):

The text of Gen. 1:5 refers to the first day of the creation of this world, and has nothing to do with any supposed transfer of the solemnity of the 7th day to that of the 1st day. It was a day of God’s working, not one of rest by God (Gen. 2:1-3 KJB).​

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The text of Mat. 28:1(a) is the closing of the still existing 7th day sabbath, or the Lord’s day (Isa. 58:13; Rev. 1:10 KJB), and demonstrates that the 7th day the sabbath still exists and recurs weekly to be kept “holy” (Exo. 20:8-11 KJB), and was kept so by the disciples of Jesus (Luk. 23:54,56 KJB) even after He died.​

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The text of Mat. 28:1(b) refers to the first (μιαν) week which begins the 7 sabbaths (σαββατων, plural), or 49 days +1, unto Pentecost (Act. 2:1 KJB). This is not a weekly, recurring, referral to the first day of the week, but instead refers to the first day, or even week, that begins the counting towards the antitypical (or true, real) Pentecost. In the Old Testament, this referred to only a single day in the year, which did not recur that year.​

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The texts of Mar. 16:2,9; Luk. 24:1; Jhn. 20:1 KJB (“πρωι της μιας σαββατων”, “πρωι πρωτη σαββατου”, “μια των σαββατων”, “τη δε μια των σαββατων”) are the exact same first ‘day’, or week, of sabbaths, as Mat 28:1(b), referring to the days of the 7 sabbaths counting up towards the culmination of Pentecost (Feast of Weeks; Lev. 23:15-22 KJB). These are all the same non-recurring day as Mat. 28:1(b).​

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The text of Jhn. 20:19 KJB actually refers to the evening (dark) portion which begins the second day of the week (Luk. 24:13-36 KJB; it was dark when Jesus secretly entered with the two from Emmaus; Luk. 24:13 KJB), but still in the first week of sabbaths of the 7 sabbaths toward Pentecost (Act. 2:1 KJB). It began as a “sad” (Luk. 24:17 KJB), “sorrowful” (Jhn. 16:20,22 KJB) day, and of the “fear of the Jews” (Jhn. 20:19 KJB). A Great Disappointment had taken place, and would be repeated later (Rev. 10:10 KJB).​

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The text of Jhn. 20:26 actually refers to the third (inclusive) or fourth (exclusive) day of the week (the counting begun from the evening portion of the second day of the week in Luk. 24:36; Jhn. 20:19; being nine days (after 8 days) previous) in that second week of sabbaths of the 7 sabbaths toward Pentecost. This day was, like the others, non-recurring.​

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The text of Act. 20:7 refers to the evening (night) portion of the first ‘day’, or week, of sabbaths (“τη μια των σαββατων”) in the 7 sabbaths unto Pentecost, and the meeting lasted unto midnight, where an event occurred with Eutychus (and then continued to early morning before sunrise). This was a one-time special farewell to Paul, after the sabbath was over, again in another counting of weeks towards another Pentecost (Act. 12:4, 18:21 KJB), for he had been going around confirming the churches before he returned to Jerusalem to be able to preach to the crowds of Jews that would come from all over. More will be given on this in a bit.​

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The text of 1 Cor. 16:2 refers to Paul’s instructions regarding the special collection (not tithes, or regular offerings, which are both still required) for the poor in Jerusalem because of the dearth foretold by Agabus, which was to be personally gathered at home after the Sabbath was over, on the first day of week when business was conducted. No one met together at all in 1 Cor. 16:1-2, but instead they individually remained at home.​

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The text of Act. 2:1 is the 50th day from First Fruits (when Jesus arose from the dead; 1 Cor. 15:20,23 KJB), and is technically upon the first day of the week, but again, was the antitype to the type in Lev. 23:15-22 KJB. This was typically a one time in the year event, and in antitype happened that day, preparing the apostles and disciples for the season of the early rains (Act. 10:47, 19:2-6 KJB).​

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The text of Rev. 1:10 is said by some that phrase “the Lord’s day” refers to the “first [day] of the week” because some ‘ECF’ said so many years later (supposedly). This is to read into the text, something which does not exist, and to redefine a phrase by non-scriptural means (Isa. 8:20; 1 Pet. 4:11 KJB), and is very dangerous. John the apostle is actually drawing from an OT phrase, found in Isa. 58:13 KJB, which refers to the 7th day the sabbath being called the “[Lord’s] holy day”. The textual structure itself also shows this, and shall be gone into more detail in a bit.​

​

... to be continued ...

 

[Adventageous]

I thought you knew something about God's Word. Obviously not.

If you did you'd know where in the New Testament was see the Apostles meeting on the first day of the week (Sunday)

They were being led by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ when doing so.

Is your claim that the Apostles missed hearing from the Lord thru the Holy Spirit and instead were being led by demons when they had meetings in Sunday? View attachment 77960

... continued ...

The conclusion from all of this, is, that there is not one place, or text, in all the Bible, from Gen. to Rev. which identifies or calls the first day of the week as “the Lord’s day”, or that the solemnity (sacredness, holiness) of the Sabbath of the LORD God was transferred to the first [day] of the week, or that it was the only day gathered upon post resurrection. In point of fact, every single ‘first’ day text above, proves the ongoing and continues cycle of 7 days of the week, ending in the Sabbath (Rest) of God in the 7th day.

Luke records that the disciples met “daily” (Act. 2:46-47, 5:42, 6:1, 16:5, 20:31, 17:11,17 KJB) and with Jesus for “forty days” (Act. 1:3,9 KJB) just before He ascended to the 3rd heaven (2 Cor. 12:2,4 KJB) from the Mount of Olives (Luk. 24:51,53 KJB, “continually”), which 40th day from first fruits, was also not a “first [day]” gathering, but rather a middle of the week event (5th day, aka ‘Thursday’ commonly, not technically).

There were also other times (differing days of the week) when both Jews and / or Christians (Jews / Gentiles) met together (Mat. 26:55; Mar. 14:49; Luk. 22:53, 24:33,36; Act. 19:9; Heb. 3:13 KJB) for varying purposes. Both Jhn. 20:19,26 KJB along with Luk. 24:1-49 KJB reveal that the disciples met on the 2nd day of the week (first evening at sunset), and on the third and later days in that upper room (“And after eight days again” (Jhn. 20:26 KJB), and no matter how that is calculated, inclusive or exclusively, it cannot ever land upon “the first [day] of the week”).

There is also a semi-unknown day (it was upon any day of the week other than the Sabbath; they went fishing at night; Jhn. 21:1,3-4 KJB) that the disciples met with Jesus after his resurrection in Jhn. 21:1-25 KJB.

These latter details reveal that the body of believers of God may gather on any and every day of the week with no injunction anywhere found in scripture against such. Yet, none of the extra gathering is to be a replacement or a nullification of necessary obedience (by God’s grace through faith, and in the Holy Spirit) to keeping the 7th day, the sabbath of the LORD thy God, holy. As for instance: a church business meeting on the 1st day (generally Sunday, though not technically) with a devotional, and prayer, or a 2nd or 3rd day (generally Monday and Tuesday) gathering for song practice or other outreach activity, or a 4th day (generally Wednesday) prayer meeting, or a 5th day (generally Thursday) social gathering or potluck, or a 6th day (generally Friday) vespers, etc. (wedding, feast, funeral, function, and so on) does not break the commandment, or given reason to ignore it. The evil is not in the gathering together on any of the 7 days of the week to worship God corporately, but the sin is in the neglecting the specific obedience to the 4th commandment (which covers all 7 days of the week) and desecrating the holiness of the 7th day, or seeking to replace it with a man-made tradition.

Luke specifically records the word “sabbath” (the 7th day) 27 times (actually 29 times, with the koine Greek of Luk. 24:1; Act. 20:7 KJB considered); Luk. 4:16,31, 6:1,2,5,6,7,9, 13:10,14(x2),15,16, 14:1,3,5, 23:54,56; Act. 1:12, 13:14,27,42,44, 15:21, 16:31, 17:2, (3 consecutive sabbaths) 18:4 (“every sabbath”; also vs. 11, a “year and six months”, which is 52 weeks + 26 weeks, being estimated 78 consecutive sabbaths met together on by both Jew and Gentile with the Apostle Paul and others, and in Act. 18:23 KJB, “he had spent some time there” (several sabbaths); in Act. 19:8 KJB, “for the space of three months” (est. 12 sabbaths); in Act. 19:10 KJB, “continued by the space of two years” (est. 104 sabbaths), in Act. 19:22 KJB, “for a season” (several sabbaths), in Act. 20:3 KJB, “three months” (est. 12 sabbaths), and in Act. 20:18,31 KJB, “all seasons, “a space of three years” (est. 156 sabbaths).

The Gospel itself, is first preached / demonstrated on the Sabbath, by Jesus, in the power of the Holy Spirit, in Luke 4:14-21, citing Isa. 61:1, and it was upon "This day" (Luk. 4:21), "the" very "sabbath day" (Luk. 4:16) that Jesus did this, linking them eternally, Creation & Re-Creation / Redemption.

 

[Button]

That is exactly the point...if Jesus was God, he could not die ...nor can mere humans kill God...they cannot kill any spirit being. But Jesus was not a spirit being...he was sent to the earth by his Father and he had to be 100% human to pay the set price of redemption. He died and was confined in his tomb for three days, until his God resurrected him. He likened his death to Jonah being confined in the belly of the fish for three day.

That is what the Bible says about Jesus....the ideas of men is what turned the Son into something he never was....something he never once claimed.

Yes,the ideas of men turned Jesus into their ideal. A mere man. Which meant he was born in sin. Which means those men ignore the old testament and now follow a false idol.

They're damned.
Yet,convinced they're right.

He chose to become the sacrifice because he loved mankind, having played an important role in creation as the one “through” whom all creation came to exist. (Col 1:15-17)

He also knew the power of the devil, and though he was his Father’s most trusted son....as Adam’s human equal, he was still endowed with free will. So much was resting on his shoulders, having existed with his Father for untold eons before the creation of anything else, he had proven his loyalty to his Father......and he knew that the destiny of the whole human race was in his hands......he also knew that satan, (having been given “all the kingdoms of the world” (Luke 4:5-7) with God giving him opportunity to prove his case as mankind’s god and ruler) was going to apply a lot of pressure on his humanity.

What do we get freedom from, do you think? What is that truth?...doesn’t everyone think they have it? They can’t all be right though.....

I believe that the rot set in much earlier than that....the Apostles said that an apostasy was “already at work” in Christianity, towards the end of the first century....something that they were ‘restraining’.

I agree...God doesn’t read labels, he reads hearts...and when he see a responsive heart, he will “draw” that one to his truth, inviting them into his family. As it has always been, God’s people are a collective, who all know him....and he knows them. For Israel, he had laws to keep order among them, and all shared worship of one God and were guided by men appointed to lead.

Christianity was a whole different story....a new covenant, a new system of worship, and a simplified way to worship the God whom Jesus worships.....even in heaven, the Father is still his God. (Rev 3:12)

Worship? Do you mean using the Bible to determine what is truth? Is it possible to determine the truth without it? How much should we rely on it? A little or a lot?

Why do you think God has preserved his word for thousands of years, despite all attempts to destroy it?
What part should it play in our faith?

Jesus is the word of God.

 

[Adventageous]

a new covenant

Ah, yes, the claim of the 'new covenant', which is specified in the OT texts themselves:

Isa 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.​

Who is Isa. 56:1 about?

Luk_2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,​

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Mat_1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.​

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1Co_1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:​

Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.​

Isa 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.​

Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;​

Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.​

Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;​

Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.​

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Hmmm, a Jesus, New Everlasting Covenant sandwhich. Who is to take hold of God's eternal "my covenant"? What are they to "keep"? What kind of name will God give them who do such? Where will God bring them?​

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Isa 56:8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.​

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Whom is Isa. 56:8 about?

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.​

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Surely, Isaiah, you were just joshin' right? What about you Jeremiah, can you confirm what Isaiah wrote?

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:​

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:​

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.​

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Surely Jeremiah would know what "my law," of God, would be written in the heart / mind of man by the Holy Ghost. See Gen. 26:5; Exo. 16:4,28, 2 Chr. 6:16; Psa. 78:1, 89:30; Pro. 7:2; Jer. 6:19, 9:13, 16:11, 17:21-22,24,27, 26:4, 31:33, 44;10; Eze. 22:26; Hos. 8:1,12; Heb. 8:10, 10:16, &c. Surely Jeremiah would know what Isaiah said in Isa. 58:13, 66:23, right?​

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Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.​

 

[Adventageous]

if Jesus was God, he could not die ...nor can mere humans kill God

Still doubting even after so much evidence. "If," said the devil ... (Mat. 4:3; Luk. 4:9 KJB).

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Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.​

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.​

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.​

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Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.​

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.​

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Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.​

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Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.​

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​

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Joh_1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.​

Joh_1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.​

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Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.​

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Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?​

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.​

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Act_20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.​

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1Ti_3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.​

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Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.​

Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.​

Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:​

Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;​

Heb 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.​

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Heb 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.​

Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.​

Heb 13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.​

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.​

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.​

Deity didn't die. Humanity died.

having existed with his Father for untold eons before the creation of anything else

Still the same ol' couched language I see. The eternal Son always existed with the Father, otherwise the Father was at some point in eternity past not the "Father" in attribute and is thus 'evolutionary' (a terrible doctrine to be sure). There is never a point in eternity past in which the Son was not "with" the Father.

A. J. why not just say what you believe plainly? You, like all WTS / JW members, simply believe the Son to be the first-created being of the Father. This is arianism. Simply saying 'untold eons before the creation of anything else', is to say you believe the Son to be one of the first things created, which goes against the following texts:

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Mat_11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.​

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Luk_10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.​

It is not possible for any created (finite) being to make such a statement as that, and not be delusional, deceived or deceiving. The finite cannot ever know the fullness of the infinite, but only the fully infinite can know the fullness of the infinite.

It is also not possible for a finite creature to die / pay for the sins of the whole world. Here's why, see QUESTION 043: CAN A CREATURE (EVEN A HIGHLY EXALTED ONE) HAVE DIED FOR THE SIN OF ADAM, & OF THE WHOLE WORLD? - Godhead - The Eternal Heavenly Trio : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

However, I suppose it is easier to simply close ones eyes and ones ears to these things.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

What about, Pro. 18:13,17 KJB in its counsel:
Pro 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.Pro 18:17 He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him.

I've spent a lot of time studying the SDA cult's fake gospel so this isn't applicable here

You are just trying to use scripture to try to get me to believe I need to sit under your false doctrine.

It's a feeble attempt resulting in No Dice.

You are still going to refuse to even read my chapters, and compare them to the word of God? What about 1 Thes. 5:19-21?

The true Holy Spirit does not teach false doctrine.

Sorry bud, you've come up short once more.

I do not remember the more noble Bereans disregarding what Paul had to say, simply because they already had a position they stood upon:

Paul wasn't teaching SDA heretical doctrine either.

How can you judge something false, if you refuse to even consider it?

As already stated, I've spent considerable amount of time looking in to your SDA doctrine and it's not biblical.

If it were you'd be able to show in God's Word where Jesus specifically taught that His followers were to observe Saturday sabbath and/or show there Jesus taught thru His Apostles that His followers were to observe Saturday sabbath and show were Jesus or His Apostle taught that not observing Saturday sabbath is a sin and taught there are repercussions for not observe Saturday sabbath

These reason you don't post these scripture references is because they are not found anywhere in the New Testament.

So, you should focus your efforts at deceiving others because it won't work on me.

I recognize the source of the doctrine you espouse and it's not the Holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Why would a person conclude such?

When a person becomes a born again Christian under the New Covenant, they do not go backwards and try to live under the old covenant as the SDA people do in error.

My book addresses this claim also.

Well, ain't you somethin!

 

[quietthinker]

Of course God's justice is similar to man's justice. A is A. Mystics presume the supernatural is altogether different from our natural experiences - despite Scripture telling us otherwise. Psalm 23. Revelation 21:16 They even presume words themselves have special, unknowable meanings, such as using quotes or qualifying unqualified words, such as divine justice or man's justice. Divine apple juice v man's apple juice. Purity of a thing does not make it a different thing.

You constantly come from a place of ignorance and make Appeals to Ignorance. Over and over again Scripture tells us how we are to KNOW things:
Ezekiel 33:29 Then they will know that I am the LORD.Matthew 7:8 For everyone who asks receives;John 14:6 I am the way and the truth and the life.John 16:3 when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth * Not man's truthJohn 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
You always undermine that confidence we are to have that comes from knowing. You introduce doubt. Why do you do that?

Another deflection. Again, try answering the question put to us.

I see your understanding is informed by the fallen human condition and a heavenly perspective as revealed by Jesus does not resonate with you. It is for this reason you make the statements you do. It is for this reason the religious in Jesus day could not tolerate his approach.

 

[quietthinker]

Moses didn't hear just "voices". God spoke with him face to face.

Ex 33:11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Here we have a challenge or a problem in understanding. We have Ex 33:11 which you quote above, then we have Ex 33:19-20 as quoted below;
Exodus 33:19-20
'And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.'

Not to pit one text against the other but to understand, I ask, can the two texts be reconciled...and if so, how?

 

[shepherdsword]

Here we have a challenge or a problem in understanding. We have Ex 33:11 which you quote above, then we have Ex 33:19-20 as quoted below;
Exodus 33:19-20
'And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.'

Not to pit one text against the other but to understand, I ask, can the two texts be reconciled...and if so, how?

In Ex 33:11 "face to face" is (possibly) an idiom for direct revelation through a personal encounter. We see it in several other verses as well (Ge 32:30, Nu 14:14, Dt 5:4 and Dt 34:10)

 

[Wrangler]

What isn't in scripture is God switching the day he made for man to Sunday.

Amen and Amen.

 

[Adventageous]

I've spent a lot of time studying the SDA cult's fake gospel so this isn't applicable here

You are just trying to use scripture to try to get me to believe I need to sit under your false doctrine.

It's a feeble attempt resulting in No Dice.

Would you be able to share some of what you have studied from "SDA" and list those sources, with their citations, and demonstrate this "fake gospel" you are on about? Am I just to take your word at it?

I am doing no such thing as you have incorrectly surmised. I simply cited (linked to) the source, which demonstrates that "SDA" do indeed understand Hebrews (among other books of scripture) and do not fear it at all, but wholly embrace what it says, in all that it says. The sharing was meant to demonstrate, in evidence, by documentation, the erroneous nature of the claim you had made in broad generalizing "SDA" and the book of "Hebrews" as being antagonisitic to each other.

A real Seventh-day Adventist does not ever play "Dice". I have not done so with you then, nor am I now, nor, by God's grace, in future, do then either.

The true Holy Spirit does not teach false doctrine.

Sorry bud, you've come up short once more.

Where did I ever say that the "Holy Spirit" "does ... teach false doctrine"? I never have, and by God's grace never will, because the Holy Spirit takes what was given to Jesus, and repeats it to Christians (Jhn. 16:15 KJB), and the Father is truth (Deu. 32:4 KJB), and the Son (Jesus) is truth (Jhn. 14:6 KJB), and the Holy Ghost / Spirit is truth (1 Jhn. 5:6 KJB), even as the word of God is truth (Jhn. 17:17 KJB), even as God's commandments (Psa. 119:151) and law (Psa. 119:142) are truth, even as all the ways of the LORD are truth (Psa. 25:10 KJB).

The Holy Ghost inspired the correct "doctrine" to begin with:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:​

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.​

You may, of course, state what you will, as it is your prerogative to do so, by God's allowance, but your standard and measurement of myself, and what I have shared, is not to be judged by your saying, but I am judged by God's sayings (Jhn. 12:48 KJB), and by those true sayings (Rev. 19:9 KJB), we (you, I and all else) shall all be compared. The only falling short I am concerned with, is not to meet your standard in that saying, but to meet God's standard, in Christ Jesus (1 Pet. 2:21 KJB), by the Holy Ghost (Rom. 8:1,4; Gal. 5:16,25 KJB).

Paul wasn't teaching SDA heretical doctrine either.

Paul taught straight out of the OT texts (2 Tim. 3:15 KJB) by the Holy Ghost / Spirit (and what was revealed in vision by Jesus Christ, confirming the OT texts), magnified those things which demonstrate what "SDA" truly believe in matters "doctrine". As for instance, "SDA" believe in the sleep of the soul (person / being) in the grave, in the dust of the earth, of those whom have died, and do not yet have their reward (*):

Peter, by the Holy Ghost at Pentecost (AD 31):

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.​

​

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,​

​

Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.​

​

Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.​

Paul, by the Holy Ghost, confirming:

Act_13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:​

​

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.​

Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.​

​

1Th_4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.​

​

Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.​

​

Feel free to see the Christian history of this, in this work here - Sincerely Dead Dying, To Know Jesus by brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[Adventageous]

As already stated, I've spent considerable amount of time looking in to your SDA doctrine and it's not biblical.

If it were you'd be able to show in God's Word where Jesus specifically taught that His followers were to observe Saturday sabbath and/or show there Jesus taught thru His Apostles that His followers were to observe Saturday sabbath and show were Jesus or His Apostle taught that not observing Saturday sabbath is a sin and taught there are repercussions for not observe Saturday sabbath

These reason you don't post these scripture references is because they are not found anywhere in the New Testament.

So, you should focus your efforts at deceiving others because it won't work on me.

I recognize the source of the doctrine you espouse and it's not the Holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ.

At the very least you could tell me what you have "spent considerable amount of time looking into" concerning "SDA doctrine". By this, I mean to ask, What have you personally seen (with your own eyes), read (with your own mind), heard (with your own ears), &c.? Are there particular books you have considered, if so, which ones (at least list top 5), particular speakers (list a few, top 3), &c. I am curious as to what you have looked into, and what it was about those sources you are rejecting, or are saying is "not biblical". At least give me that much.

I do show from God's word, in the books (like the one I linked to), where "Jesus specifically taught His followers to observe ... sabbath", and I do "show there Jesus taught thru His Apostles that His followers were to observe ... sabbath", and I do "show where Jesus or His Apostle taught that not observing ... sabbath is a sin and tuaght there are repercussions for not observe ... sabbath: (sic). This is why I specifically linked to specific portions of the book addressing such things (which I also recommend to others to read, if you will not consider it in whole, then why not in those portions?)

I have posted those scripture references many times in these forums, and I have posted some in this very thread. They are indeed found all over the NT texts, and in the OT texts as well, referring to the NT dispensation.

My "focus" has never (and never will be) to "deceive" you or anyone. This is why I laid out the material very carefully in the book, and several times in the forums in some detail.

The source of "the doctrine"? It should be obvious:

​

Joh_7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.​

​

Psa_40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.​

When a person becomes a born again Christian under the New Covenant, they do not go backwards and try to live under the old covenant as the SDA people do in error.

Yes, "born again" (Jhn. 3), a "Christian" (Act. 11:26, where Christians kept sabbath; Act. 13:14, 15:21-22) having faith in the "New Covenant" (Isa. 56;1,8; Jhn. 16:10; Isa. 56:2-7; Jer. 31:31-34; Heb. 8:8-13, 10:16, &c.), and of course would not "go backwards and try to live under the old covenant". It is just you incorrectly think that the 10 Commandments are the old covenant, and there is not a single scripture which says any such thing in either OT or NT texts. The "old covenant" is found in Exo. 19:3-8, where it is said, by God to the Israelites, through the mediator Moses, "if ... then ... and", which God then said to Moses, "These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.", and so Moses took those words to the elders of the people, and they responded in agreement, by saying, "All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.", and then Moses returned those words of agreement to the old covenant to God. The covenant was struck, and later ratified by blood (Exo. 24).

"SDA" (sic) do not ever "try to live under the old covenant", and it is explicitly stated in Seventh-day Adventist materials, videos, sermons, books, tracts, and not the least of which is found in the writings of the messenger of the LORD, sister White. People may have a grudge against her for some personal reasaon/s, but her statements on the matter are crystal clear.; as for instance:

Letters and Manuscripts — Volume 8 (1893); Lt. 18a; January 30, 1893 to A. G. Daniells; par. 1:​

​

"... [par. 1] Seek to lift Jesus up, and in no case dwell under the shadow of the old covenant; but let your faith and your hope center constantly in Jesus, the Source of all life, and truth and righteousness. ..." - Letters and Manuscripts — Volume 8 (1893)​

Well, ain't you somethin!

Only in Jesus Christ, am "I" anything at all.

1Co_13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity [G26], I am nothing.​

​

1Jn_4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love [G26].​

​

1Jn_4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love [G26]; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.​

 

[Adventageous]

What isn't in scripture is God switching the day he made for man to Sunday.

Correct, for that came years later by persons like 'Sylvester I", "Eusebius", "Constantine", &c.; as for instance:

‘Pope’ Sylvester I (AD 314 – AD 335), Beati Rabani Mauri, Fuldensis Abbatis et Moguntini Archiepiscopi, de Clericorum Institutione, ad Heistulphum Archiepiscopum; Libri Tres. (Anno 819.) Ad Fratres Fuldenses Epigramma Ejusdem; Liber Secundus, Caput XLVI. Column 361 (Left; PDF page 35)

[Latin] “... [Column 361; page 35] Similiter et feriae a fando dicuntur, ob quam causam Silvester papa primus apud Romanos constituit ut dierum nomina quae antea secundum nomina deorum suorum vocabant, id est, Solis, Lunae, Martis, Mercurii, Veneris, Saturni, feria deinceps vocarent, id est, prima feria, secunda feria, tertia feria, quarta feria, quinta feria, sexta feria, quia in principio Genesis scriptum est quod Deus per singulos dies dixerit : prima, Fiat Lux; secunda, Fiat firmamentum; tertia, Producat terra herbam virentem, similiter, etc. Sabbatum autem antiquo legis vocabulo vocare praecepit, et primam feriam diem Dominicam, eo quod Dominus in illa resurrexit. Statuit autem idem papa ut otium sabbati magis in diem Dominicam transferretur, ut ea die a terrenis operibus ad laudandum Deum vacaremus, justa illud quod scriptum est : Vacate et videte, quoniam ego sum Deus (Psal. XLV). ...” - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....eistulphum_Archiepiscopum_Libri_Tres,_MLT.pdf​

​

[English] “... Pope Sylvester, first among the Romans, ordered that the names of the days [of the week], which they previously called after the name of their gods, that is, [the day] of the Sun, [the day] of the Moon, [the day] of Mars, [the day] of Mercury, [the day] of Jupiter, [the day] of Venus, [the day] of Saturn, they should call feriae thereafter, that is the first feria, the second feria, the third feria, the fourth feria, the fifth feria, the sixth feria, because that in the beginning of Genesis it is written that God said concerning each day: on the first, “Let there be light”; on the second, “Let there be a firmament”; on the third, “Let the earth bring forth verdure”; etc. But he ordered [them] to call the Sabbath by the ancient term of the law, [to call] the first feria the “Lord's day,” because on it the Lord rose [from the dead], Moreover, the same pope decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the Lord’s day [they mean 'Sunday'; BUT the real “Lord’s day” (Revelation 1:10; Isaiah 58:13 KJB) is the 7th day the Sabbath of the LORD], in order that on that day we should rest from worldly works for the praise of God.7 ...” - Exactly Which Pope Changed The Sabbath To Sunday?​

Eusebius (c. 260-339); Patrologiae, Cursus Completus ... Series Graeca ... J. P. Migne ... Tomus XXIII. Eusebius Pamphili Caesariensis Episcopus (1857), col. 1171A; Left

[Latin] “... [Column 1171A, Left] in summa quot-quot alia in Sabbato peragere sancitum erat, ea nos in Dominicam transtulimus, utpote quae magis ido-nea et propria, ac prima item sit et agmen ducat, et Judaico Sabbato pretiosior. ... Quare ut ea die conveniamus tradi-tum nobis est, et ea quae in psalmo jubentur nobis exsequi praeceptum est; ...” – Patrologiae cursus completus, series graeca​

The Christian Sabbath, considered in its various aspects by Ministers of Different Denominations, with Preface by the Hon. And Rev. Baptist W. Noel (Noel, Baptist Wriothesley), Johnstone and hunter, Princes Street, Edinburgh; and Paternoster Row, London, M.DCCC.L. (1850), page 264

[English] “... [page 264] Eusebius ... “All things whatever that it was the duty to do on the Sabbath, these we have trans-ferred to the Lord’s Day, as more appropriately belong-ing to it, because it has a precedence, and is first in rank, and more honourable than the Jewish Sabbath. It is delivered to us that we should meet together on this day, and it is ordered that we should do those things announced in this Psalm.” – Comment on Ps. xcii. ...” - The Christian sabbath, considered in its various aspects : Noel, Baptist Wriothesley, 1798-1873 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​

History of the Christian Church & Ecclesiastical History: The Complete 8 Volume Edition of Schaff's Church History & The Eusebius’ History of the Early Christianity by Philip Schaff, page PT1616, point 692

“... [google books page “PT1616”] 692 Lex Constantini a. 321 (Cod. Just. l. iii., Tit. 12, 3): Imperator Constantinus Aug. Helpidio: “Omnes judices, urbanaeque plebes et cunctarum artium officia venerabilit die Solis quiescant. Ruri tamen positi agrorum culturae libere licenterque inserviant, quoniam frequenter evenit, ut non aptius alio die frumenta sulcis aut vineae scrobibus mandentur, ne occasione momenti pereat commoditas coelesti provisione concessa. Dat. Non. Mart. Crispo ii. et Constantino ii. Coss.” In English: “On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time.)” The prohibition of military exercises is mentioned by Eusebius, Vita Const. IV. 19, 20, and seems to refer to a somewhat later period. In this point Constantine was in advance of modern Christian princes, who prefer Sunday for parades.” - https://books.google.com/books?id=1zrmEAAAQBAJ&pg=PT1616#v=onepage&q&f=false​

 

[Button]

Correct, for that came years later by persons like 'Sylvester I", "Eusebius", "Constantine", &c.; as for instance:

‘Pope’ Sylvester I (AD 314 – AD 335), Beati Rabani Mauri, Fuldensis Abbatis et Moguntini Archiepiscopi, de Clericorum Institutione, ad Heistulphum Archiepiscopum; Libri Tres. (Anno 819.) Ad Fratres Fuldenses Epigramma Ejusdem; Liber Secundus, Caput XLVI. Column 361 (Left; PDF page 35)

[Latin] “... [Column 361; page 35] Similiter et feriae a fando dicuntur, ob quam causam Silvester papa primus apud Romanos constituit ut dierum nomina quae antea secundum nomina deorum suorum vocabant, id est, Solis, Lunae, Martis, Mercurii, Veneris, Saturni, feria deinceps vocarent, id est, prima feria, secunda feria, tertia feria, quarta feria, quinta feria, sexta feria, quia in principio Genesis scriptum est quod Deus per singulos dies dixerit : prima, Fiat Lux; secunda, Fiat firmamentum; tertia, Producat terra herbam virentem, similiter, etc. Sabbatum autem antiquo legis vocabulo vocare praecepit, et primam feriam diem Dominicam, eo quod Dominus in illa resurrexit. Statuit autem idem papa ut otium sabbati magis in diem Dominicam transferretur, ut ea die a terrenis operibus ad laudandum Deum vacaremus, justa illud quod scriptum est : Vacate et videte, quoniam ego sum Deus (Psal. XLV). ...” - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....eistulphum_Archiepiscopum_Libri_Tres,_MLT.pdf​

​

[English] “... Pope Sylvester, first among the Romans, ordered that the names of the days [of the week], which they previously called after the name of their gods, that is, [the day] of the Sun, [the day] of the Moon, [the day] of Mars, [the day] of Mercury, [the day] of Jupiter, [the day] of Venus, [the day] of Saturn, they should call feriae thereafter, that is the first feria, the second feria, the third feria, the fourth feria, the fifth feria, the sixth feria, because that in the beginning of Genesis it is written that God said concerning each day: on the first, “Let there be light”; on the second, “Let there be a firmament”; on the third, “Let the earth bring forth verdure”; etc. But he ordered [them] to call the Sabbath by the ancient term of the law, [to call] the first feria the “Lord's day,” because on it the Lord rose [from the dead], Moreover, the same pope decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the Lord’s day [they mean 'Sunday'; BUT the real “Lord’s day” (Revelation 1:10; Isaiah 58:13 KJB) is the 7th day the Sabbath of the LORD], in order that on that day we should rest from worldly works for the praise of God.7 ...” - Exactly Which Pope Changed The Sabbath To Sunday?​

Eusebius (c. 260-339); Patrologiae, Cursus Completus ... Series Graeca ... J. P. Migne ... Tomus XXIII. Eusebius Pamphili Caesariensis Episcopus (1857), col. 1171A; Left

[Latin] “... [Column 1171A, Left] in summa quot-quot alia in Sabbato peragere sancitum erat, ea nos in Dominicam transtulimus, utpote quae magis ido-nea et propria, ac prima item sit et agmen ducat, et Judaico Sabbato pretiosior. ... Quare ut ea die conveniamus tradi-tum nobis est, et ea quae in psalmo jubentur nobis exsequi praeceptum est; ...” – Patrologiae cursus completus, series graeca​

The Christian Sabbath, considered in its various aspects by Ministers of Different Denominations, with Preface by the Hon. And Rev. Baptist W. Noel (Noel, Baptist Wriothesley), Johnstone and hunter, Princes Street, Edinburgh; and Paternoster Row, London, M.DCCC.L. (1850), page 264

[English] “... [page 264] Eusebius ... “All things whatever that it was the duty to do on the Sabbath, these we have trans-ferred to the Lord’s Day, as more appropriately belong-ing to it, because it has a precedence, and is first in rank, and more honourable than the Jewish Sabbath. It is delivered to us that we should meet together on this day, and it is ordered that we should do those things announced in this Psalm.” – Comment on Ps. xcii. ...” - The Christian sabbath, considered in its various aspects : Noel, Baptist Wriothesley, 1798-1873 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​

History of the Christian Church & Ecclesiastical History: The Complete 8 Volume Edition of Schaff's Church History & The Eusebius’ History of the Early Christianity by Philip Schaff, page PT1616, point 692

“... [google books page “PT1616”] 692 Lex Constantini a. 321 (Cod. Just. l. iii., Tit. 12, 3): Imperator Constantinus Aug. Helpidio: “Omnes judices, urbanaeque plebes et cunctarum artium officia venerabilit die Solis quiescant. Ruri tamen positi agrorum culturae libere licenterque inserviant, quoniam frequenter evenit, ut non aptius alio die frumenta sulcis aut vineae scrobibus mandentur, ne occasione momenti pereat commoditas coelesti provisione concessa. Dat. Non. Mart. Crispo ii. et Constantino ii. Coss.” In English: “On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time.)” The prohibition of military exercises is mentioned by Eusebius, Vita Const. IV. 19, 20, and seems to refer to a somewhat later period. In this point Constantine was in advance of modern Christian princes, who prefer Sunday for parades.” - History of the Christian Church & Ecclesiastical History​

Emperor Constantine issued a law in 321 AD making Sunday (the "venerable day of the sun") a day of rest, politically uniting his empire by aligning with existing Roman reverence for the sun god Sol Invictus, while also accommodating Christian practice as early Christians already observed Sunday (the day of Jesus's resurrection). While Constantine had pagan ties, his move unified pagan and Christian traditions by linking the pagan sun-day with the Christian Lord's Day, though some argue it suppressed the Sabbath.

Source: Facebook Biblia ang basihan sa kamatuoran. | In 321 AD, Roman Emperor Constantine issued a significant decree that impacted the Roman Empire and early Christianity | Facebook

 

[quietthinker]

Emperor Constantine issued a law in 321 AD making Sunday (the "venerable day of the sun") a day of rest, politically uniting his empire by aligning with existing Roman reverence for the sun god Sol Invictus, while also accommodating Christian practice as early Christians already observed Sunday (the day of Jesus's resurrection). While Constantine had pagan ties, his move unified pagan and Christian traditions by linking the pagan sun-day with the Christian Lord's Day, though some argue it suppressed the Sabbath.

Source: Facebook Biblia ang basihan sa kamatuoran. | In 321 AD, Roman Emperor Constantine issued a significant decree that impacted the Roman Empire and early Christianity | Facebook

Can we expect a similar move to 'unite' the global empire of the New World Order?

 

[quietthinker]

Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath because he was God who gave it.

In the New Testament he takes the Sadducees and Pharisees to task as being those who put the law above everything in order to sustain and enforce their authority over the people.

Jesus showed what the Sabbath was. Not meant to go about our day as usual but to serve God and his people.

If a lamb were trapped in the rocks,of course you'd rescue it if it occurred on the Sabbath.
Each lamb is precious and pleading for help when in danger.

But the law enforcement at the temple said,no.

And they were wrong.

Jesus healed people on the Sabbath. What better day than to have God's power and mercy at work on the day God made for man to utilize that power through faith?

What isn't in scripture is God switching the day he made for man to Sunday.

The Sun's day of worship in pagan Romes pantheon of God's worship. The Sun's day.

God didn't make that a day of worship. Pagans did.

As I recall, God made the seventh day Sabbath as a day of rest. Why is it we call it a day of Worship?

 

[saved by grace 101]

"SDA" (sic) do not ever "try to live under the old covenant",

I tend to think those who keep repeating ''We must obey the TC'' sound like they are looking to an external law, that was old covenant wasn't it? Under the new covenant applicable law is written in the mind and placed on the heart of every believer. It is in their most inward parts, part of their spiritual dna in Christ so to speak. If you know in your mind how God wants you to live and desire in your heart to live that way(for that is where the law now is), why would you constantly need to be told you must obey this or that law?
In my experience the law within will always convict of sin to a far greater degree than an external written down law ever will.
When I reached puberty, I often heard people say ''You must obey the TC'' And when I heard that, my thoughts always turned inward to my impure thoughts and I felt much guilt. I didn't know at that time through reading the words of the TC, they covered impure thoughts/lust, but I instinctively knew in my heart and mind. Thus in my view, the more reliable witness of conviction comes from the internal law, not external