Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again.

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Zao is life

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The distribution of Jesus’ personal belongings and responsibilities: his purse given to Judas (John 13:29), his garments divided among the soldiers (John 19:23), the care of his mother entrusted to John (John 19:27), his spirit (breath) returned to God (Luke 23:46), and his body delivered to Joseph (John 19:38).

The answer is given to you in the verse!
  • “Spirit” is πνεῦμά (pneuma) – his life force or “spirit”, breath is returned to God.
  • “Breathed” is ἐξέπνευσεν (exepneusen) – literally “exhaled” or “expired.” It comes from the verb ἐκπνέω (ekpneo), which literally means “to breathe out.” In context, it describes the act of dying, when the breath (or life force) leaves the body.
At that moment Christ ceased to exist!

You conveniently left out:

His soul went to hades (Acts 2:27) where by the Spirit He preached to the spirits who were in prison in hades (1 Peter 3:18-19).

I've noticed that you always conveniently leave out those scriptures when saying what you did above - the sure sign of a false teacher teaching a false doctrine.
 

Zao is life

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Hades to mean grave and I can tell your inference on 1 Peter 3 is incorrect. You should look at that section again!

There were no spirits in the tomb of Jesus where He was buried. There was no prison in hades in the tomb where He was buried.
 

Zao is life

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Jesus either breathed his last breath, or he did not - if you say he did not then who is speaking heresy? You have a messiah who never died!

Imagine that!

The body is what breathes. His body died. His Spirit (the breath of life) went back to God His Father. His soul went to hades, where by the Spirit He preached to spirits who were imprisoned in hades.

Those spirits were not in His grave (tomb) with Him.
 

Zao is life

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JESUS Says otherwise!!! = Matt 22:23-33

Enoch is ALIVE Today but not in his flesh body.

The only death the Bible ever speaks about is the death of the body.

The New Testament is never talking about the "death of the (human) spirit" when it talks about death either. It's only talking about the death of the body.

If Enoch did not taste death it means that his body did not die. Hebrews says that he did not taste death.

Copy @Davidpt
 
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Zao is life

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All things derive from God's Logos... even Christ!

Christ is the result of God's “Logos” in ‘thought’ and ‘reasoning’

NO. Christ IS THE logos who became flesh.

"Became / becomes" is the same word used where God names Himself to Moses. The same word is used when Adam became a living soul / being after God breathed (Spirit) life (spirit) into the man who he had formed from the dust of the ground.

The logos always existed. As long as God the Father has existed, the logos has existed with the Father - and He has existed from eternity and exists from eternity to eternity. Life exists IN HIM (John 1:4).
 

Hiddenthings

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NO. Christ IS THE logos who became flesh.

"Became / becomes" is the same word used where God names Himself to Moses. The same word is used when Adam became a living soul / being after God breathed (Spirit) life (spirit) into the man who he had formed from the dust of the ground.
True - when God raised him and gave him immortality and eternal life he "became" the Son of God (with Power :IDK:)
 

Hiddenthings

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There were no spirits in the tomb of Jesus where He was buried. There was no prison in hades in the tomb where He was buried.
Let assume your false understanding for a moment.

How can the "spirit" go back to God who gave it, (Ecc. 12:7) and yet be imprisoned in hades?

Before you answer can you provide Scripture to support your claims thanks - not interested in fanciful notions.
 

Zao is life

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True - when God raised him and gave him immortality and eternal life he "became" the Son of God (with Power :IDK:)

The logos became the Son of God when He was conceived in the womb of a virgin in the day He took on human flesh that He had already created. He became the Son of God with power when He rose from the dead.
 

Zao is life

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Let assume your false understanding for a moment.

How can the "spirit" go back to God who gave it, (Ecc. 12:7) and yet be imprisoned in hades?

Before you answer can you provide Scripture to support your claims thanks - not interested in fanciful notions.

Your understanding is false. Jesus became A MAN. In the case of all humans, body, soul and spirit are separated at death - because of the death of the body.

The human became a living being when God breathed (Spirit) the breath (spirit) of life into him. Every human has a soul which is the mind, the life and the soul of the person. The spirit is the breath of life which is given of the Spirit of life and goes back to the Father when the body dies.

At death the body goes to the grave (it's dead - D-E-A-D), the soul goes either to hades or to Christ - because the spirit goes back to the God who gave it.

The soul of Jesus went to hades on our behalf.

Psalm 139

7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell [H7585 sheol " hades], behold, thou art there.

By the Spirit Jesus preached to imprisoned spirits in hades.

His dead body was quickened by the Spirit, who also raised Him from the dead. Forty days following His death He ascended into heaven.


Forget me talking to you about your corruptions of the Word of God and your heresy after this post. JW's, Preterists, Part Preterists, Mormons etc are best left alone because their ears are shut by their open mouths spewing their heresies.
 
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Hiddenthings

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The logos became the Son of God when He was conceived in the womb of a virgin in the day He took on human flesh that He had already created. He became the Son of God with power when He rose from the dead.
The original Gospel is crystal clear:

concerning his Son who was a descendant of David with reference to the flesh (100%), 1:4 who was appointed the Son-of-God-in-power (Divine Nature) according to the Holy Spirit by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 1:2–4.

What is the distinction between Christ in the flesh and being appointed as the Son of God with Power?

Provide a Scriptural explanation of the difference.
 

Zao is life

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The original Gospel is crystal clear:

concerning his Son who was a descendant of David with reference to the flesh (100%), 1:4 who was appointed the Son-of-God-in-power (Divine Nature) according to the Holy Spirit by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 1:2–4.

What is the distinction between Christ in the flesh and being appointed as the Son of God with Power?

Provide a Scriptural explanation of the difference.

THE GOSPEL IS CLEAR. HE IS THE SON OF GOD BECAUSE HE IS THE WORD OF GOD WHO EXISTED WITH THE FATHER FROM ETERNITY, WHO BECAME FLESH.

THAT IS HIS POSITION.

ONCE HE BECAME FLESH HE BECAME THE SON OF DAVID ACCORDING TO THE FLESH - HAVING ALREADY BEEN APPOINTED BEFORE ALL TIME

AND THE SON OF GOD WITH POWER THROUGH HIS RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD.

(John 1:1-5 & 14; Ephesians 1:3-5; 1 Peter 1:20).
 

Hiddenthings

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Your understanding is false.
No, yours is
Jesus became A MAN. In the case of all humans, body, soul and spirit are separated at death - because of the death of the body.
Verse?
The human became a living being when God breathed (Spirit) the breath (spirit) of life into him.
No different to the animals - correct!

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity.

How good is your comprehension?

Every human has a soul which is the mind, the life and the soul of the person. The spirit is the breath of life which is given of the Spirit of life and goes back to the Father when the body dies.
No you go off on some mythological tangent as though you can prove immortal essence!

Romans 2:7 “To those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.”

You don't seek for that which you already have!

Paul knew immortality was "put on" a person after being raised and judged!

At death the body goes to the grave (it's dead - D-E-A-D), the soul goes either to hades or to Christ - because the spirit goes back to the God who gave it.
Verse?
The soul of Jesus went to hades on our behalf, and His dead body was quickened by the Spirit, who also raised Him from the dead. 40 days following His death He ascended into heaven.
Correction: He was quickened by the Spirit of God.
Forget me talking to you about your corruptions of the Word of God and your heresy after this post. JW's, Preterists, Part Preterists, Mormons etc are best left alone because their ears are shut by their open mouths spewing their heresies.
Bla bla bla...always the same empty arguments with no substance.

It's embarrassing for someone to write so confidently yet know so little.

Imagine if you had the original Gospel!
 
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Hiddenthings

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THE GOSPEL IS CLEAR. HE IS THE SON OF GOD BECAUSE HE IS THE WORD OF GOD WHO EXISTED WITH THE FATHER FROM ETERNITY, WHO BECAME FLESH.

THAT IS HIS POSITION.

ONCE HE BECAME FLESH HE BECAME THE SON OF DAVID ACCORDING TO THE FLESH - HAVING ALREADY BEEN APPOINTED BEFORE ALL TIME

AND THE SON OF GOD WITH POWER THROUGH HIS RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD.
The caps do nothing for you Zao.

Hebrews 5:9 “And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.”

I could keep giving you powerful verses, and you could keep building your own interpretations but ultimately, you need to grasp how Christ was made perfect and how His God and Father accomplished this.

Became!
 

Hiddenthings

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@Zao is life

1 Peter 3:18 (ESV):

"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit."

See your problem Zao?

You have Christ in Sins Flesh and being put to death in it BUT being made alive in the Spirit.

Given new life, eternal life, in a body of Spirit: Rom 6:4; 8:11.

The first man to be given immortality
The firstfruits of them that sleep
The Firstgetton of the dead!

Do you get it?
 

Hiddenthings

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@Zao is life, one day you may come to question why you separate the person of Christ from his body. When you realize that in life and in death they are inseparable, only then will you grasp the full magnitude of God’s victory. Until that moment, you are merely playing word games and squandering precious time.

I’m about to share a reality below that I know your current beliefs won’t allow you to fully grasp, but for what it’s worth, I have and can.

As David wrote, He (Jesus) asked life of You (God), and You (God) gave it to him, length of days forever and ever (Psalm 21:4).

Jesus affirmed this by saying, “The Father has granted the Son to have life in himself (John 5:26).

Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life” (John 6:35) and, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father (for Life) except through me (John 14:6).

“I live because of the Father” (John 6:57), and again, “As the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in himself” (John 5:26).

You have some major doctrinal issues to contend with especially when you cross references these verses with Romans 1:1-4 which I've already shown you.

Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh (100% Human!) 4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord Ro 1:1–4.

God raised Christ and blessed him with immortality and with Divine nature (with Power) having it not in his possession previously.

Can you distinguish between Christ in the flesh and the exalted, glorified Christ

If not, maybe you need to relook at the Scriptures and see!
 

Lizbeth

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This current Earth is needed up until it is replaced by a NHNE etc but that is after the GWTJ. Jesus returns to this current Earth as well.
All this back and forthing has wearied me and I need to take a break from it. Not young any more and often think I should get off the forum, however according to 2Peter 3 it says this world burns up when Jesus returns and we look for a "new" one......new means spiritual/heavenly, no longer earthly. I read that we're not looking for this world to remain after His appearing at the end of this age, but are looking for what Jesus has gone ahead to prepare for us....to be where He now is....as He said just before His ascension, "you know the way to where I am going". Seems that our existence will be heavenly then...forever with the Lord as it says in 1 Thess 4.
 

Lizbeth

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Sister, read @ewq1938 's post HERE because it's true.

Think with the mind of Christ, relying on the Holy Spirit. Not with your own mind and the minds of those humans who want you to believe as they do. Look at what the Bible is actually saying:

Love | Forgiveness | Belief


John 3
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.

Perish: G622 ἀπόλλυμι apollumi from 575 and the base of 3639; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively:--destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

Condemned: G2919 κρίνω krino properly, to distinguish, i.e. decide (mentally or judicially); by implication, to try, condemn, punish:--avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.

Judged | condemned

John 3

18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil.

Matthew 26
28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Romans 1
17 For the law came through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

The law = the old covenant. The old covenant = the law. It was based on the law. It passed when Jesus died on the cross and the veil in the temple was torn in two.


Compare:

2 Corinthians 5
17 So that if any one is in Christ, that one is a new creature; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

and:

John 3
18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.

Romans 3
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Romans 5
12 As by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

Atonement:

Romans 5

10 When we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

The death of Jesus:

Mark 15

37 And letting out a loud voice, Jesus expired.
38 And the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.

The veil:


19 Therefore, my brothers, having boldness to enter into the Holy of Holies by the blood of Jesus,
20 by a new and living way which He has consecrated for us through the veil, that is to say, His flesh.

THE HOUR THE OLD COVENANT PASSED AND THE NEW COVENANT CAME

John 12

27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

John 3

18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.

The New had come - the old had passed:

Matthew

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread and blessed it, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat, this is My body.
27 And He took the cup and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink all of it.
28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The hour in which the Old Covenant passed away and the new covenant came is the hour the world was judged for its sins when Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world. The Jews are not judged differently to the rest of mankind.


Romans 1
17 For the law came through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.


Final judgment IS JUDGMENT FOR ALL. Judged by works:

Revelation 20

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Judged by their works when Jesus returns - the law (old covenant) was given to mankind through the Jews because by the law is the knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20).

Romans 1
17 For the law came through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Preterist and Part Preterists must stop contradicting God by asserting that the old covenant remained intact until AD70 and that the judgment of the Jews who rejected Christ came at that time. God does not contradict Himself.
ALL WHO REJECT CHRIST ARE ALREADY CONDEMNED. When Christ returns, only then will there be a final judgment of the living and the dead.
I know that the new covenant began with Jesus, but there was a period of overlap so to speak as concerns Israel as a nation....she was given time to repent and accept Him before the kingdom and gospel was decisively taken away from her and given to the Gentiles.
 

Lizbeth

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Why is it that it's always those who corrupt the word, not rightly dividing the Word, always use this expression about "rightly dividing the Word" in such a way as to imply that their corruption is "rightly dividing the Word?"

The expressions and favorite quotes those who corrupt scripture, not rightly dividing scripture frequently use when making their own assertions, are very predictable.

@David in NJ
I'm not making any claims about myself. And I was responding to what David specifically said.. Did I say amiss? Is it not true that we need to believe the rightly divided word?