Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again.

[amigo de christo]

Amen. It's a direct and very deceitful counterfeit of the real genuine things of God. False spirit, false love, false unity etc that is born of the filthy rags of man's own "righteousness" instead of submitting to the true righteousness of God in Christ. The way that seemeth right to man but leads to death/destruction.

I mean, it sure does seem as though the nations, including and especially deceived Christians who reject sound doctrine, are being deceived at the end of this age....devil being loosed as it were and allowed freer reign because the restrainer is being taken away....strong delusion that God is allowing/sending to those who have not received a love of the truth. This is all Babylon/Babel rising again...Babylon (like Rome) was very "multicultural" and composed of people of many divers religions/beliefs. Their various belief systems and practices were "tolerated" as long as they were united through worship of Caesar and King. Might be worth noting as well that the actual ancient city of Babylon is being dug up from it's earthly tomb and studied by archeologists in these days.

Now go to and behold the mantra among christendom .
OH it dont matter what one beleives , JUST love etc
ONLY notice sister they are total hyprocrites .
FOR while it is true they dont care what sinners beleive ,
THEY darn sure have a problem with those WHO B ELIEVE and ONLY BELIEVE THE TRUTH .
NOW WHY is that .
WELL cause those in da rkness love thier sin and , LETS FACE IT
the sins and false beliefs are no longer exposed . cause they don t want theirs exposed either .
ITS A KUYMBIA of a love that has no p roblem with anyone who bleieves in darkness , OH JUDGE NOT they say
BUT IT SURE DO have a problem with THOSE WHOSE FAITH and BELIEF be IN TRUTH .
cause again TRUTH dont go with the flow nor find common ground with darkness , WHY IT EXPOSES IT .
and men love darkness and DO NOT WANT their d eeds exposed .
BUT LIGHT exposes darkness . THUS along came the judge n ot correct not card .
WELL so long as its NOT THE TRUTH . OH THAT THEY DO co rrect , THAT THEY DO Judge , that they do hate .
Its simple sister . real simple . AND THE END DOES COME . the hour of da rkness IS PEAKING
and the hatred towards TRUTH is only increasing . cause TRUTH EXPOSES what they love .
TRUTH exposes what They LOVE
but TRUTH is what a sheep LOVES .

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What "makes no sense" to me are; those who have never received the THIRD baptism of the great commission, and yet consider themselves spiritual.

What are you talking about and what does it have to do with what I said in my post?

Another thing which makes no sense to me, are those who quote; "unity of spirit" totally out of context, thinking it means conformity to doctrine....theirs only.

EPH 4:1 I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called,
(I believe this is a CALLING to CHRIST for new birth, not to DOCTRINE.)
2 with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love,
(I see too much haughtiness, arrogance, impatience here and too little forbearing of anyone who disagrees with ????/them.)
3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
(I see too much zeal and too little true spiritual enlightenment, and little peace with BRETHREN who are disagreed with doctrinally.)

RSV ROM 10:2 I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but it is not enlightened.

From 'the bible';
PRO 11:14 Where there is no guidance the people fall, But in abundance of counselors there is victory.
You all say, YES YES!!!

From 'the bible'
ISA 30:1 Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:
I say; ARE YOU SURE?

"my spirit" in KJV, RSV,
"My Spirit" in NKJV, NAS
"My spirit" in YLT
"my Spirit" in NIV

So, who here knows which holy spirit is being written about; in the written 6 infallible word of man translations?
The Holy Spirit OF GOD or the holy spirit of Christ IN the LORD?

Show time with the wife.
God be on ya, mates

What does any of this have to do with what was being discussed?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The point that Peter was making was not hold too tightly to the things of this world as this world and all of the works therein are going to be burnt up someday - adding more emphasis to what Jesus said in Matthew 6:

19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

No, the point Peter was making was in relation to God's wrath that will occur when Jesus comes on the day of the Lord and about the need to avoid it when it comes on the day Jesus returns. Paul referred to that wrath as "sudden destruction" (1 Thessalonians 5:2-3) from which those in spiritual darkness "shall not escape" (1 Thessalonians 5:2-3). He said believers are not in darkness, so that the day of the Lord would overtake us as a thief (1 Thess 5:4). So, the reason that both Peter and Paul talked about being careful about our spiritual status as we look forward to the day that Jesus will come as a thief in the night is because they don't want their readers to experience the "sudden destruction" by fire that will occur on the day that Jesus comes unexpectedly as a thief in the night to take "vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Thess 1:7-8).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Classic example of twisting scripture to conform to man's desire/pov.............
@Davidpt

The NHNE comes AFTER the 1,000 Literal Year Reign
There is No maneuvering around this except from one's own desire that is apart from God's words.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

NOTICE that the "Beast and False Prophet" are thrown into the LoF at the Second Coming of CHRIST and never Before His 2nd Coming!!!

No one said that the beast and false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire before the second coming of Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

No one said that the beast and false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire before the second coming of Christ.

That is GOOD - and - according to the Will of GOD

 

[Lizbeth]

Now go to and behold the mantra among christendom .
OH it dont matter what one beleives , JUST love etc
ONLY notice sister they are total hyprocrites .
FOR while it is true they dont care what sinners beleive ,
THEY darn sure have a problem with those WHO B ELIEVE and ONLY BELIEVE THE TRUTH .
NOW WHY is that .
WELL cause those in da rkness love thier sin and , LETS FACE IT
the sins and false beliefs are no longer exposed . cause they don t want theirs exposed either .
ITS A KUYMBIA of a love that has no p roblem with anyone who bleieves in darkness , OH JUDGE NOT they say
BUT IT SURE DO have a problem with THOSE WHOSE FAITH and BELIEF be IN TRUTH .
cause again TRUTH dont go with the flow nor find common ground with darkness , WHY IT EXPOSES IT .
and men love darkness and DO NOT WANT their d eeds exposed .
BUT LIGHT exposes darkness . THUS along came the judge n ot correct not card .
WELL so long as its NOT THE TRUTH . OH THAT THEY DO co rrect , THAT THEY DO Judge , that they do hate .
Its simple sister . real simple . AND THE END DOES COME . the hour of da rkness IS PEAKING
and the hatred towards TRUTH is only increasing . cause TRUTH EXPOSES what they love .
TRUTH exposes what They LOVE
but TRUTH is what a sheep LOVES .

Amen, and the way to escape that mess is to be like Lot and put our hand in God's hand and set our course for the mountains with Him, moving on up to higher ground. I remember the Lord's warning and admonishment to me early one morning, not be like Lot's wife who looked back to watch Sodom's burning. We need to keep going, forgetting what lies behind and reaching for what lies ahead. Where there is life there is growth and movement. If we just keep watching Sodom's demise it will turn us into a rigid pillar of salt that will keep us from growing and moving forward in the Lord.

 

[Davy]

What "makes no sense" to me are; those who have never received the THIRD baptism of the great commission, and yet consider themselves spiritual.

Another thing which makes no sense to me, are those who quote; "unity of spirit" totally out of context, thinking it means conformity to doctrine....theirs only.

EPH 4:1 I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called,
(I believe this is a CALLING to CHRIST for new birth, not to DOCTRINE.)
2 with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love,
(I see too much haughtiness, arrogance, impatience here and too little forbearing of anyone who disagrees with ????/them.)
3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
(I see too much zeal and too little true spiritual enlightenment, and little peace with BRETHREN who are disagreed with doctrinally.)

RSV ROM 10:2 I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but it is not enlightened.

From 'the bible';
PRO 11:14 Where there is no guidance the people fall, But in abundance of counselors there is victory.
You all say, YES YES!!!

From 'the bible'
ISA 30:1 Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:
I say; ARE YOU SURE?

"my spirit" in KJV, RSV,
"My Spirit" in NKJV, NAS
"My spirit" in YLT
"my Spirit" in NIV

So, who here knows which holy spirit is being written about; in the written 6 infallible word of man translations?
The Holy Spirit OF GOD or the holy spirit of Christ IN the LORD?

Show time with the wife.
God be on ya, mates

If you are a fellow-believer in Lord Jesus Christ, there's something you should know.

Man's pacifist and disarmament doctrines do not work, and are not Biblical.

Lord Jesus said that if a brother trespasses against us, to rebuke that one, and if he repents then to forgive him (Luke 17:3).

Per Luke 22, when Jesus sent His disciples in final on the road to preach The Gospel, He told those of them that didn't have a sword to go buy one.

In 1 Timothy 5:20, Apostle Paul said to rebuke a sinner within the congregation before all, so others may also fear.

In Titus 1:10-14, Apostle Paul said there are many vain talkers, especially among the circumcision (Jews), and to therefore rebuke them sharply when they teach things they ought not, subverting whole households. Rebuke them sharply, so they may be sound in the Faith Apostle Paul said.

Paul said that as much as it is possible within us, try to live peaceably with all men. This is not possible with all... men. (Romans 12:18). That is why we still need a police force, and a military to protect our peoples and nations.

Many brethren are not aware that Moscow holds religious summits every once in a while inviting Western Christian pastors, and pushing pacifist and disarmament doctrines. The ex-KGB colonel, Anatoliy Golitsyn documented that in his 1984 book New Lies For Old. He defected to the U.S. back in the 1960's. The last summit I recall in Moscow with Christian pastors from the West attending was in 1993.

 

[Hillsage]

To all, just something I'm gathering 'here', which has been taught incorrectly by most all of 'the church'. And it does not seem to be understood by some here IMO.

GEN 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heavenS; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

note; In the Hebrew, "heavenS" is plural above, and is not talking about 'a place'.
The misleading words also 'added' by nominal translators in this verse are "may reach". We aren't talking about a TOWER being built on earth tall enough to touch a place where God is. It was being built in the city, which was high enough to not be affected by city lights when studying the zodiac (as did the Magi who learned of the birth of Jesus). Abraham had 8 sons before having the son of promise . Sons which were not God chosen like Issac.

Hebrew "and its top with the heavens", i.e. with the signs of the Zodiac depicted on its top. Similar type ancient temples were in Denderah and Esneh in Egypt. Those temples were also built on a "plain" (Gen 11:2) or 'level ground' where earth's horizons reveal more of the Zodiak constellations ("mazzaroth" Job 38:32).

They were wanting to "make a name." Manifesting independence of God. Nimrod being the rebel leader. "make a name" See Gen 10;8-10 , and compare Gen 12:2.

IOW, this tower was for the purpose of planing their lives after the pagan corruption of ASTRONOMY and ASTROLOGY into HOROSCOPES. Making them independent of the Jehovah God and his purpose for those constellations. A God who created those 12 constellations, with each one being individually associated with the 12 tribes of Israel.

Off topic, I know.

 

[Davy]

To all, just something I'm gathering 'here', which has been taught incorrectly by most all of 'the church'. And it does not seem to be understood by some here IMO.

GEN 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heavenS; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

note; In the Hebrew, "heavenS" is plural above, and is not talking about 'a place'.
The misleading words also 'added' by nominal translators in this verse are "may reach". We aren't talking about a TOWER being built on earth tall enough to touch a place where God is. It was being built in the city, which was high enough to not be affected by city lights when studying the zodiac (as did the Magi who learned of the birth of Jesus). Abraham had 8 sons before having the son of promise . Sons which were not God chosen like Issac.

Hebrew "and its top with the heavens", i.e. with the signs of the Zodiac depicted on its top. Similar type ancient temples were in Denderah and Esneh in Egypt. Those temples were also built on a "plain" (Gen 11:2) or 'level ground' where earth's horizons reveal more of the Zodiak constellations ("mazzaroth" Job 38:32).

They were wanting to "make a name." Manifesting independence of God. Nimrod being the rebel leader. "make a name" See Gen 10;8-10 , and compare Gen 12:2.

IOW, this tower was for the purpose of planing their lives after the pagan corruption of ASTRONOMY into ASTROLOGY. Making them independent of the Jehovah God and his purpose for those constellations. A God who created those 12 constellations, with each one being individually associated with the 12 tribes of Israel.

Off topic, I know.

You should read 19th century Bible scholar E.W. Bullinger's The Witness of the Stars, if you haven't already.

The witness of the stars : Bullinger, E. W. (Ethelbert William), 1837-1913 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

1

archive.org

In it Bullinger documents through historical research what the Zodiac constellations were actually named originally associated with The Bible, PRIOR to their being 'renamed' by paganism later.

It is a scholarly in-depth type of work, a hard read for many, but that's the best kind because it relies on documented evidence.

 

[Hillsage]

You should read 19th century Bible scholar E.W. Bullinger's The Witness of the Stars, if you haven't already.

The witness of the stars : Bullinger, E. W. (Ethelbert William), 1837-1913 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

1

archive.org

In it Bullinger documents through historical research what the Zodiac constellations were actually named originally associated with The Bible, PRIOR to their being 'renamed' by paganism later.

It is a scholarly in-depth type of work, a hard read for many, but that's the best kind because it relies on documented evidence.

Old news bro. I have 4 books of EW. But I studied the symbolism of every constellation in a monthly bible study which took 4 years, beginning in 1990.

Kingdom Bible Studies Table of Contents

www.kingdombiblestudies.org

THE HEAVENS DECLARE

PSA 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

@Lizbeth

 

[Lizbeth]

If you are a fellow-believer in Lord Jesus Christ, there's something you should know.

Man's pacifist and disarmament doctrines do not work, and are not Biblical.

Lord Jesus said that if a brother trespasses against us, to rebuke that one, and if he repents then to forgive him (Luke 17:3).

Per Luke 22, when Jesus sent His disciples in final on the road to preach The Gospel, He told those of them that didn't have a sword to go buy one.

In 1 Timothy 5:20, Apostle Paul said to rebuke a sinner within the congregation before all, so others may also fear.

In Titus 1:10-14, Apostle Paul said there are many vain talkers, especially among the circumcision (Jews), and to therefore rebuke them sharply when they teach things they ought not, subverting whole households. Rebuke them sharply, so they may be sound in the Faith Apostle Paul said.

Paul said that as much as it is possible within us, try to live peaceably with all men. This is not possible with all... men. (Romans 12:18). That is why we still need a police force, and a military to protect our peoples and nations.

Many brethren are not aware that Moscow holds religious summits every once in a while inviting Western Christian pastors, and pushing pacifist and disarmament doctrines. The ex-KGB colonel, Anatoliy Golitsyn documented that in his 1984 book New Lies For Old. He defected to the U.S. back in the 1960's. The last summit I recall in Moscow with Christian pastors from the West attending was in 1993.

Jesus said we are not to judge/condemn. Carnal weapons are the legitimate weapons of the governments of this world, if they use them justly. They are not the weapons of the church. We need to distinguish between the holy and the profane/common. Church is to be holy, governments are common, a practical necessity, not holy as pertaining to God.

 

[Lizbeth]

To all, just something I'm gathering 'here', which has been taught incorrectly by most all of 'the church'. And it does not seem to be understood by some here IMO.

GEN 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heavenS; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

note; In the Hebrew, "heavenS" is plural above, and is not talking about 'a place'.
The misleading words also 'added' by nominal translators in this verse are "may reach". We aren't talking about a TOWER being built on earth tall enough to touch a place where God is. It was being built in the city, which was high enough to not be affected by city lights when studying the zodiac (as did the Magi who learned of the birth of Jesus). Abraham had 8 sons before having the son of promise . Sons which were not God chosen like Issac.

Hebrew "and its top with the heavens", i.e. with the signs of the Zodiac depicted on its top. Similar type ancient temples were in Denderah and Esneh in Egypt. Those temples were also built on a "plain" (Gen 11:2) or 'level ground' where earth's horizons reveal more of the Zodiak constellations ("mazzaroth" Job 38:32).

They were wanting to "make a name." Manifesting independence of God. Nimrod being the rebel leader. "make a name" See Gen 10;8-10 , and compare Gen 12:2.

IOW, this tower was for the purpose of planing their lives after the pagan corruption of ASTRONOMY into ASTROLOGY. Making them independent of the Jehovah God and his purpose for those constellations. A God who created those 12 constellations, with each one being individually associated with the 12 tribes of Israel.

Off topic, I know.

Wow, didn't know that. (Not surprising, there is a lot I don't know). Worship of the heavenly bodies, which is idolatry. Thanks for sharing that...it helps to flesh out why it angered the Lord so much.

 

[amigo de christo]

Wow, didn't know that. (Not surprising, there is a lot I don't know). Worship of the heavenly bodies, which is idolatry. Thanks for sharing that...it helps to flesh out why it angered the Lord so much.

Marvel not
that many now sit under and heed a wolf , and the wolf says IF elected to lead you sheep i shall become a vegeterain .
My advice , never heed the lips of a wolf .

 

[Lizbeth]

Marvel not
that many now sit under and heed a wolf , and the wolf says IF elected to lead you sheep i shall become a vegeterain .
My advice , never heed the lips of a wolf .

lol, very true brother, a wolf can never become vegetarian any more than a leopard can change his spots.

 

[Hillsage]

If you are a fellow-believer in Lord Jesus Christ, there's something you should know.

And IF I AM A FELLOW BELIEVER. PLEASE Let me share what I feel....you have 'left out'.

Man's pacifist and disarmament doctrines do not work, and are not Biblical.

Lord Jesus said that if a brother trespasses against us, to rebuke that one, and if he repents then to forgive him (Luke 17:3).

Are you accusing me of trespass or sin? If so, what is it?

Per Luke 22, when Jesus sent His disciples in final on the road to preach The Gospel, He told those of them that didn't have a sword to go buy one.

The rest of Jesus' teaching, which fulfills what you share above, took place in the garden.

JOH 18:10 Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's slave and cut off his right ear. The slave's name was Malchus. 11 Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into its sheath; shall I not drink the cup which the Father has given me?"

Jesus rebuked Peter for what he did. And he healed the man that Peter struck.

So, sword or not? Weapon or not?

The 'whole truth' of Jesus is, carry a sword to fight the lion and the bears....or maybe even pitbulls. Like when I was walking my dog with my sister in law's 2 dogs, last month. Didn't have my pistol, so I had to kick the attacking pitbull so hard in the ribs when he was attacking me/us, that he turned tail and ran back to the other pit bull who was smart enough to stay on the other side of the buried shock collar wire. Not a drop of blood shed. I gave thanks to MY LORD AND GOD in front of a grateful Jeanne.

But if you enter my house (3 miles from our town) at night, and I end up in court testifying as to why I shot him/her/it, as many times as I did, I might be led to say; "Because that's all the magazine legally held."

In 1 Timothy 5:20, Apostle Paul said to rebuke a sinner within the congregation before all, so others may also fear.

So? Who here is guilty of being a "sinner"? Me? Name the sin. And don't say 'false doctrine'. That's the stupidity of everyone here, or anywhere else, where two or more BRETHREN disagree. You do know the bible says the church needs "heresy" don't you?

1CO 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Do you think being "manifest" means they won the doctrinal argument against someone dumber? I don't.

In Titus 1:10-14, Apostle Paul said there are many vain talkers, especially among the circumcision (Jews), and to therefore rebuke them sharply when they teach things they ought not, subverting whole households. Rebuke them sharply, so they may be sound in the Faith Apostle Paul said.

The WHOLE verse bro.

TIT 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

Maybe your paid pastor qualifies better than me, concerning this verse???? Although, I have twice' had two younger men in our congregation give me money because they felt led to do so because of my disciplining. I didn't need it, I was a doctor, but I received it that they might be blessed of HIM above for their obedience below..... where WE all live.

 

[David in NJ]

To all, just something I'm gathering 'here', which has been taught incorrectly by most all of 'the church'. And it does not seem to be understood by some here IMO.

GEN 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heavenS; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

note; In the Hebrew, "heavenS" is plural above, and is not talking about 'a place'.
The misleading words also 'added' by nominal translators in this verse are "may reach". We aren't talking about a TOWER being built on earth tall enough to touch a place where God is. It was being built in the city, which was high enough to not be affected by city lights when studying the zodiac (as did the Magi who learned of the birth of Jesus). Abraham had 8 sons before having the son of promise . Sons which were not God chosen like Issac.

Hebrew "and its top with the heavens", i.e. with the signs of the Zodiac depicted on its top. Similar type ancient temples were in Denderah and Esneh in Egypt. Those temples were also built on a "plain" (Gen 11:2) or 'level ground' where earth's horizons reveal more of the Zodiak constellations ("mazzaroth" Job 38:32).

They were wanting to "make a name." Manifesting independence of God. Nimrod being the rebel leader. "make a name" See Gen 10;8-10 , and compare Gen 12:2.

IOW, this tower was for the purpose of planing their lives after the pagan corruption of ASTRONOMY into ASTROLOGY. Making them independent of the Jehovah God and his purpose for those constellations. A God who created those 12 constellations, with each one being individually associated with the 12 tribes of Israel.

Off topic, I know.

You and @Lizbeth need to keep reading and praying for GOD did not come down to confound them for looking up at the stars.

 

[Davy]

Jesus said we are not to judge/condemn. Carnal weapons are the legitimate weapons of the governments of this world, if they use them justly. They are not the weapons of the church. We need to distinguish between the holy and the profane/common. Church is to be holy, governments are common, a practical necessity, not holy as pertaining to God.

And yet Lord Jesus and Apostle Paul were giving directives TO... The Church, in those Scriptures I referenced.

 

[Davy]

And IF I AM A FELLOW BELIEVER. PLEASE Let me share what I feel....you have 'left out'.

Are you accusing me of trespass or sin? If so, what is it?

I wasn't accusing you of being a sinner, though I know you are, as we all are.

I was merely pointing out your pushing of pacifist dogma for Christians when Christians are supposed to be stand up servants for Christ, protectors of the Faith, and the poor, the fatherless, and the widow. And sometimes that leads to war against an aggressor nation, like the Vietnam war, of which I am a veteran of.

Do you not know the reason why the U.S. gave support to the South Vietnamese against Communists? It was because South Vietnam's leaders who were members of the Catholic Church requested it, because the Communists were especially going after Christians. Are you not aware that same kind of thing is going on in several foreign countries today, radical Islamic followers murdering Christians specifically with machetes and such (like in parts of Indonesia and Africa).

So I don't need your Socialist-Leftist speeches that it's no business of the Church to help protect its peoples.

 

[Davy]

I used to believe that "ELEMENTS" was equating to the 'Periodic chart of elements'; which is referencing things 'materially speaking' OF the EARTH. None of which is contextual with everything in "the WORLD"/KOSMOS. which represents the orderly arrangements of governments ON the earth.

Now, I look at the 'Peter verses' from the context of all the other '5- verses' using that same Greek word 'stoicheion' used for "elements", "rudiments", "principles" in the KJV.

4747 stoicheion: something orderly in arrangement, i.e. (by impl.) a serial (basal, fundamental, initial) constituent (lit.), proposition (fig.)

....

That is how that Greek word is meant; it's not about the elements of the periodic table of earthly material matter, but about a 'world' age.

The 3 world earth ages is what Peter was covering in that 2 Peter 3 Chapter. The previous 2 world earth ages did not destroy the whole earth, but only cleansed the earth's surface.

That is how 2 Peter 3:10-13 is meant also. And the proof is with all the Bible Scriptures about prophecy after... Jesus' future coming on the "day of the Lord" with His reign on this earth with His elect.

 

[Lizbeth]

You and @Lizbeth need to keep reading and praying for GOD did not come down to confound them for looking up at the stars.

It rings true to me as being the main reason, with mankind being unified in it at the time (transgression come to the full..?...which triggered God's judgment). Astrology is very ancient eastern mystic idolatry which God soundly condemns all over the bible...it's of the devil. Seems like that would have been the first instance of such in mankind's history in a corporate way, and then the people would have taken that occult knowledge with them when the Lord scattered them...which is why we see such all over the world in various places with various manifestations of it......makes sense that they all had their origins in Babel.

It has never made sense to me that the Lord could have been worried that their tower was going to literally reach literal heaven where He dwells, but it makes much more sense that it was a "high place" altar for the purpose of seeking god-like power and knowledge from an illicit source (that leads to death, not life).