Can One Be Christian and Not Believe In The Trinity?

[Grailhunter]

Jesus "Being In The Form Of God" Makes Him God Philippians 2:6

Where are you getting these from or is a twisted interpretation?
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Philippians 2:6

 

[Wrangler]

Those are false analogies.

No, they are not false because you keep trying to falsely parse synonyms.

a lack of understanding the doctrine of the Trinity.

No. I have a complete understanding of things that are nonsense.

You cannot equate one and three when they are referring to different categories.

YOU are making the category error! I am a 1 person person in this context but a multi-person person in this other context. This is fantasy, not reality. And it is anti-Scriptural. I see you didn't answer the points in my previous post.

The more you pile contradiction upon contradiction to support your doctrine the more unsupportable it becomes. How does a person in one category become a multi-person person in another category? Use a real life example - not metaphoric example.

They do provide plural-scriptures precisely because it is NOT a Biblical teaching. Because there is a verse that teaches what day Adam was created, only one verse is needed.

Because no verse teaches what day Eve was created on, they rely on artificial synthesis, group unrelated verses, read into it what they want, change the meaning of words, do math or substitution. Whala! You can 'support' ANY doctrine this way.

I keep going back to the motive. What is the motive to claim the Bible "supports" what it does not explicitly teach? They make it seem the only thing we have to go on are these vague glimpses, which is totally not true. Scripture explicitly teaches teaches there is one God, whose name is YHWH, who we relate to as Father. Jesus affirms this is the only true God.

1. That's good enough for me. Why is it not good enough for them?
2. Why do Jesus followers teach what Jesus did not?
3. No Scripture says believing the trinity is a salvation issue. So, why do they have this burning passion for what is NOT a salvation issue?
4. Why do they make this wholly contradictory idea - contrary to the Bible, contrary to logic, contrary to definition, contrary to language usage - seem like it's the central message of the Bible that one's salvation depends on when it's not?

Rev 1:1, the resurrected Jesus sitting on God's throne in heaven, given all authority in heaven and Earth is STILL not God as God - in his unitarian nature - gave Jesus the revelation. Not "the Father." God - in his unitarian nature gave this to Jesus.

I’ve never said three evolves from one.

Now, you want to hide behind explicit words. To claim it is possible that A person can be a multi-person person is one thing. No limit it to 3 is where your evolution ends. Why not any other number of persons in this multi-person person?

 

[GodsGrace]

No, they are not false because you keep trying to falsely parse synonyms.


No. I have a complete understanding of things that are nonsense.



YOU are making the category error! I am a 1 person person in this context but a multi-person person in this other context. This is fantasy, not reality. And it is anti-Scriptural. I see you didn't answer the points in my previous post.

The more you pile contradiction upon contradiction to support your doctrine the more unsupportable it becomes. How does a person in one category become a multi-person person in another category? Use a real life example - not metaphoric example.




Now, you want to hide behind explicit words. To claim it is possible that A person can be a multi-person person is one thing. No limit it to 3 is where your evolution ends. Why not any other number of persons in this multi-person person?

Not following along...sorry.
This popped up when closing down.....

Jesus is NOT a multi-person.

Jesus is ONE PERSON with TWO NATURES.

And yet you say you understand the "nonsense" of the Trinity!


And I haven't posted this in the past 15 minutes.

 

[GodsGrace]

Those are false analogies. Your reasoning here is poor, likely based on what strongly appears to be a lack of understanding the doctrine of the Trinity.

My point is that, philosophically speaking, you’re making a category error. You cannot equate one and three when they are referring to different categories.


No, it really doesn’t.


I’ve never said three evolves from one.

Agreed.
ANALOGIES never work when discussing theology.
God is not like anything we know or really understand.

Philiosophy doesn't help much either...
I like to stick to theology and what the Apostles and early church taught.

must go.
'might

 

[GodsGrace]

Orthodox Christians attacked from both sides... Some heretic claim there are three Gods, other heretics claim there is only one person.

It is like extreme left and extreme right joining their forces in attacking moderate democrats.

I am still not sure why moderators tolerate this, when their own rules forbid this. Every day the same thing over and over again. This is Christians Only section of the board.

Because it states Christian under their avatar.
The reason they state that their faith is Christian is precisely so that they can use the entire Forum and not be barred from any sub-forum.
Some truly believe they are Christian, and some truly know they are not.

Admin cannot determine if a person is Christian or not.
Imagine if you had to pass a test to get onto this forum.
So the algorhythm allows them on all sub-forums except for safe-zones.

Anyway, there has to be some sort of freedom to speak or the forum wil be like
Nazi Germany and that's even worse. We do need free speech so we can state what we really believe.

Sorry for carrying on...

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Jesus Is Before all things Colossians 1:17


There are plenty more...
courtesy of @GRACE ambassador

Precious friend, appreciate it.

One thought is that when all the critics of God's Sound Doctrine are dead and buried,

His Eternally Settled And Unchangeable WORD Will Still Be Alive and Marching On:​

​

"For There Are Three That Bear Record in heaven, The Father,​

The WORD, and The Holy Ghost: and These Three Are One."​

(1 John 5:7 AV)​

Here is the Complete study, if / just in the rare case anyone decides they are interested:

163 Reasons The LORD JESUS Christ Is Almighty God!!!​

----------------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord God Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

 

[GodsGrace]

Precious friend, appreciate it.

One thought is that when all the critics of God's Sound Doctrine are dead and buried,

His Eternally Settled And Unchangeable WORD Will Still Be Alive and Marching On:​

​

"For There Are Three That Bear Record in heaven, The Father,​

The WORD, and The Holy Ghost: and These Three Are One."​

(1 John 5:7 AV)​

Here is the Complete study, if / just in the rare case anyone decides they are interested:

163 Reasons The LORD JESUS Christ Is Almighty God!!!​

----------------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord God Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

Just knowing you're around is encouraging!
Now I'll say good night for the 2nd time (not to you)
but this time I mean it !!

 

[Grailhunter]

Just knowing you're around is encouraging!
Now I'll say good night for the 2nd time (not to you)
but this time I mean it !!

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus is ONE PERSON with TWO NATURES.

This is an anti-Biblical claim - unless you concede all men also have these 2 natures.

 

[amigo de christo]

It would seem that accepting everything out of love would be a good thing.
But it's NOT.
Even in normal everyday life situations.

Love is teaching the truth...
it is NOT teaching a lie just to make the other person feel good.

This generation has become so enamoured with pleasing man
and appeasing man
but have no idea they are leading all into the greatest rebellion against GOD , HIS Christ .
If i sought to please man i would NOT be the servant of Christ . PAUL KNEW exactly that .
Seeker friendly pandered to man and thus to the flesh of man . AND boy did the numbers who came in
grow massive . But why . Because they please man , NOT GOD .
And as JESUS Once said that which is pleasing to man IS abomination to GOD .
WELL take a look today and see what is going on in t hose churches . Abominations .
For one cannot have BOTH the love of GOD and of the world . no they will cling to the one and hate the other e.
AND that be exactly what the love of the world do , it clings to the lusts of the f lesh
pride of life and etc , HATING the very TRUTH that do expose it .
A man cannot love SIN and GOD . that is a fact , they will cling to the sin and HATE the GOD who exposes it by HIS TRUTH .
What we are witnessing can easily be summed up .
SATAN duped this people into loving him and through that love they hate GOD only more and more every day and hour
that passes as they embrace the god who has promised them salvation and THEIR SIN .
only WE GOT A BIG problem with that . CAUSE GOD DONT HONOR SIN , NOR UNBELEIF . but their god does both .
Thus n odoubt its the devil . NO doubt in my mind that is who many now see as the god of love
and they see the biblical GOD as satan . that is a fact friend . a sad on e , BUT A F ACT none the less .

 

[amigo de christo]

It would seem that accepting everything out of love would be a good thing.
But it's NOT.
Even in normal everyday life situations.

Love is teaching the truth...
it is NOT teaching a lie just to make the other person feel good.

through the love of the world , which many now beleive to be the LOVE of GOD ,
they now follow this one .......... believing it to be GOD and LOVE . very delusional are these days .

 

[Justified]

You have a skill of typing things that mean nothing.

It seems all you anti-Trinitarians have a skill for personal attacks, which un-Christlike and usually indicative of not being able to address the arguments against your position.

If it is a clear biblical teaching then it would be easy to provide scriptures.

It is easy. As I have pointed out a couple of times, you essentially agree with the deity of the Father, the deity of the Son, and the deity of the Holy Spirit. Where you go wrong, is in ignoring the plain, clear teaching of Scripture that there is only one God and there never will be another.

One God? Yahweh and Yeshua and Holy Spirit.....LOL....Which two are not Gods?

Is there a reason you have repeatedly ignored replying to the following?

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Jesus affirms it:

Mar 12:29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
...
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him.
...
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Paul affirms it:

1Co 8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”
1Co 8:5 For although there may be so-called godsin heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

James affirms it:

Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

Jude affirms it:

Jud 1:25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

Note especially Isa. 43:10. There was and is only one true God. You say there are three, against all biblical evidence.

God himself says there will not be another after him--you're making him a liar, which means either he isn't God or you're simply incorrect.

What you believe in is not biblical....ergo....all the song and dance.
You believe in the hocus pocus of a man made doctrine.....not biblical.

I have given no song and dance. It is you that is continually deflecting so that you don't have to address the above.

 

[Justified]

verily verily i do type unto thee
HOW COME what many now call original today
as they boot out bibles like THE KJV
SURE SEEMS far more accepting of sins and even unbelief
AS what was written IN the KJV .
WE been Duped big time .
I sure seem to notice that what most try and call original
and always attack the kjv
SURE DO SEEM far more accepting of sin
WONT correct sin
Wont even correct unbeleif .
ODD . CAUSE JESUS SURE DID , THE APOSTELS SURE DID
And try reading the prophets , THEY SURE DID correct error and sin .
TODAY , YEAH , DIDNT THINK SO .
this generation will accept almost anything ,
Under the guise of love
but boy howdy when one examines this love
THEY notice IT DARN SURE SEEMS to hate THE TRUTH that DO EXPOSE their sins , unbeleif .
Ever get the feeling we been duped . WE HAVE . yet many love the love of a harlot
who has fed men another image of GOd and of love
WHICH sure do overlook sins and errors and UNBELIF , but MAN it wont over look TRUTH , NO it attack that
As though ITS hate .

I have no idea what your point is.

 

[Grailhunter]

It seems all you anti-Trinitarians have a skill for personal attacks, which un-Christlike and usually indicative of not being able to address the arguments against your position.


It is easy. As I have pointed out a couple of times, you essentially agree with the deity of the Father, the deity of the Son, and the deity of the Holy Spirit. Where you go wrong, is in ignoring the plain, clear teaching of Scripture that there is only one God and there never will be another.


Is there a reason you have repeatedly ignored replying to the following?

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

Jesus affirms it:

Mar 12:29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
...
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him.
...
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Paul affirms it:

1Co 8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”
1Co 8:5 For although there may be so-called godsin heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

James affirms it:

Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

Jude affirms it:

Jud 1:25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

Note especially Isa. 43:10. There was and is only one true God. You say there are three, against all biblical evidence.

God himself says there will not be another after him--you're making him a liar, which means either he isn't God or you're simply incorrect.


I have given no song and dance. It is you that is continually deflecting so that you don't have to address the above.

For sure Yahweh made it clear He was the only God in the Old Testament.
But still waiting for those scriptures that define the three Gods in one.....

 

[Justified]

No, they are not false because you keep trying to falsely parse synonyms.

They're false.

No. I have a complete understanding of things that are nonsense.

Okay...

YOU are making the category error! I am a 1 person person in this context but a multi-person person in this other context. This is fantasy, not reality. And it is anti-Scriptural.

Do you not realize that God doesn't refer to a person but a specific type of being or nature, and that that nature isn't human? You are equating God's nature with "person." Humans can only be one person and one nature; that is how God made us. But, it does not logically follow that God is one person and in his one nature. That would be circular reasoning. We must go by what God reveals of himself in the Bible.

I see you didn't answer the points in my previous post.

What post and which points? I don't have all day to go through everything and it is easy to miss things.

The more you pile contradiction upon contradiction to support your doctrine the more unsupportable it becomes. How does a person in one category become a multi-person person in another category? Use a real life example - not metaphoric example.

You have yet to show a single contradiction, but you have once again shown that you are over your head in this discussion, as you don't even understand what categories refer to.

Now, you want to hide behind explicit words. To claim it is possible that A person can be a multi-person person is one thing. No limit it to 3 is where your evolution ends. Why not any other number of persons in this multi-person person?

Again, you're showing you don't understand the doctrine of the Trinity. It's three persons in one God because that is what the Bible shows--not four, not two, not any other number.

 

[Justified]

For sure Yahweh made it clear He was the only God in the Old Testament.

First, you're using circular reasoning to imply that Yahweh refers to the Father only. Second, Yahweh clearly stated that there would be no other God. Third, that there is only one God is repeatedly affirmed throughout the NT.

Is there a reason you, yet again, ignored the passages I posted?

But still waiting for those scriptures that define the three Gods in one.....

I'll get to it when I have a chance; I don't have much time or energy during the week.

 

[Wrangler]

You are equating God's nature with "person."

LOL. Aren’t you equating God's nature with "person” In claiming he’s a multi-person?

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again GodsGrace,

I believe that THE MYSERIOUS UNITY OF GOD is referring to how God is shown to be either more than one Person
or
to be in more than one place at the same time.. which would also indicate that He is more than one Person.

Solomon clearly states that heaven is God's dwelling place:
2 Chronicles 6:19–21 (KJV): 19 Have respect therefore to the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O LORD my God, to hearken unto the cry and the prayer which thy servant prayeth before thee: 20 That thine eyes may be open upon this house day and night, upon the place whereof thou hast said that thou wouldest put thy name there; to hearken unto the prayer which thy servant prayeth toward this place. 21 Hearken therefore unto the supplications of thy servant, and of thy people Israel, which they shall make toward this place: hear thou from thy dwelling place, even from heaven; and when thou hearest, forgive.

God is one person:
Deuteronomy 6:4 (KJV): Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

The One God, Yahweh, God the Father is also present everywhere by means of His Spirit:
Psalm 139:1–7 (KJV): 1 O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me. 2 Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off. 3 Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. 4 For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether. 5 Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me. 6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it. 7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
This does not prove that Yahweh is a multitude of Gods.

Also the Son of God as you understand it doesn't address the fact that Jesus acted both as a human and as divine.

Acts 2:22 (KJV): Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Seems that there are two LORD's.

Only one Yahweh. The Angel of Yahweh represents God and acts and speaks on His behalf.
Exodus 23:20–21 (KJV): 20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
Zechariah 3:1–2 (KJV): 1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Jude 9 (KJV): Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Although it must be said that angels cannot create and God said LET US MAKE....
as if the one God was speaking to could participate in the creation.

The Angels throughout the Bible speak and act on God's behalf, and they have been delegated power from God and also have God's wisdom. The Angels were also active in the Garden.

I don't know enough about this and I don't believe it has anything to do with the Trinity but this is just my OPINION.

Proverbs 8 introduces similar language and concepts to John 1:1,14.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Grailhunter]

First, you're using circular reasoning to imply that Yahweh refers to the Father only. Second, Yahweh clearly stated that there would be no other God. Third, that there is only one God is repeatedly affirmed throughout the NT.

Is there a reason you, yet again, ignored the passages I posted?

Yahweh the Father and Yeshua the Son and the Holy Spirit. Yes the word God in the Old Testament refers to Yahweh.
What scriptures did I miss?

 

[Justified]

LOL. Aren’t you equating God's nature with "person” In claiming he’s a multi-person?

No. That should be clear from what I am saying.