The "watch rapture view"

[The Light]

If You think Jesus comes in power and great glory prewrath then you believe the white horse arrival is prewrath.

Absolutely not. The Pre wrath coming of Jesus in Matthew 24:29-31 occurs at the 6th seal..........hence prewrath. It is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. FACT.
The 7th seal is the wrath of God. FACT.

Read the description in Rev 19 of Jesus coming in power and great glory.
Ahem...it is NOT "prewrath".

Jesus comes in power in glory at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. So the coming of Jesus in power and glory happens at the 6th seal prewrath.

Where do you see that Jesus sending His angels to gather elect from heaven and earth has anything whatsoever to do with the armies of heaven coming for Armageddon?

It is POST 7YR TRIB.

The Church is already in heaven before the midst of the week when the AOD is set up.

The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. FACT

This is when Jesus sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. This is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7.

Then read the MID TRIB, MID 7 YR GATHERING , "prewrath" RAPTURE OF Jesus,
IN REV 14:14.( WITH NOTHING...NOT A HINT OF "POWER AND GREAT GLORY")

Do you think Jesus is going to show up with His angles and no be in power and glory?

Yeah, Jesus came with His angels to gather the elect but there was no power and glory...........REALLY?????

BOTH of you are blenderizing definitions/verses to arrive at a 100% impossibility

I believe there are two raptures. One pre trib barley and wheat for the Church and one pre wrath fruit harvest Feast of Trumpets last trump for the seed of the woman 12 tribes.

You believe there are raptures and yet you can't find where they occur in Revelation?

 

[covenantee]

You are making an incorrect conclusion.

If you were correct, that Jesus is the prince that shall come in the text, then it means that the Jews would have, or will in the future destroy the city of Jerusalem. Don't think so.

Daniel 9
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Also, it would mean that the covenant that is confirmed by the prince that shall come will be one week.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

What covenant did Jesus confirm for one week?

Explain how the objective rules of grammar are "making an incorrect conclusion".

 

[The Light]

Explain how the objective rules of grammar are "making an incorrect conclusion".

The rules of grammar must have had a problem.

You must have missed my questions. Here you go.

Did the Jews destroy their own city, or will they do you think?

What covenant did Jesus confirm for one week?

 

[covenantee]

The rules of grammar must have had a problem.

You must have missed my questions. Here you go.

Did the Jews destroy their own city, or will they do you think?

What covenant did Jesus confirm for one week?

The rules of grammar don't have a problem. Dispensationalism's anti-grammatical grade F nonsense does.

The Jews were fully complicit with the Romans in the destruction of Jerusalem.

The word "antichrist" is nonexistent in the OT. Explain what covenant nonexistence confirms.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No rapture verse has Jesus coming in power and great glory.

False.

Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

No rapture verse has the white horses.
Yes.
Jesus comes "prewrath" as you put it.
Pretrib is also prewrath.

If you think mat 24 coming is in power and great glory, why so you then go against the word where Jesus comes AFTER THE 7 YR TRIB ON WHITE HORSES WITH THE SAINTS?

Instead you think "prewrath".
If Jesus comes after the trib/ prewrath (which is a mid trib rapture false teaching), and you try to fit Jesus coming in "power and great glory " ( which is the white horses coming after tge 7 yr trib), then you, and "the light" have Jesus arriving BEFORE THE END OF THE 7 YR TRIB.
You are falsely positioning the timetable.
Flat out making it up.

That is WHY both of you need the 7 yr trib strictly broken up and reinvented
In NO WAY does it fit.

Are Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 not in your Bible?

 

[The Light]

If You think Jesus comes in power and great glory prewrath then you believe the white horse arrival is prewrath.
Read the description in Rev 19 of Jesus coming in power and great glory.
Ahem...it is NOT "prewrath".

How can you possibly make this statement?
How many times am I going to post these verses until the light goes on?

Are you unable to understand that the tribulation is over when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven according to the Word of God below?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Are you unable to understand that the 6th seal is opened when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven according to the Word of God below?

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

From the above scriptures, how are you unable to conclude that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal when the sun of man comes in power and glory?

You have absolutely no scriptural support for you claims and seem unable to take the able scriptures above and apply simple deductive reasoning. I've read a lot of your posts, and you seem fully capable of using simple reasoning to prove a point. How do you not see this?

IN REV 14:14.( WITH NOTHING...NOT A HINT OF "POWER AND GREAT GLORY")

How can you possibly claim that when Jesus comes with His angels in Revelation 14 that He does not come in power and glory. Would you think that Jesus would show up with His angels an not show up in power and glory.

In Revelation 14 there is no mention of Jesus nail holes in his hand and feet. Does that mean it is not Jesus? Of course not?

 

[The Light]

No
The ac makes a 7 yr treaty.
In the middle of it, he inaugurated the AOD.

Your model has the ac with a different arrival and the AOD starting the arrival.

Of course there is a 7 year covenant.

But there is only 3.5 years left in the 70th week of Daniel.

Do the math. Don't listen to what you have been told. Do the math.

 

[The Light]

Here is the written word of God in Hebrew in dan 9, and the transliteration in English.
כז וְהִגְבִּיר בְּרִית לָרַבִּים, שָׁבוּעַ אֶחָד; וַחֲצִי הַשָּׁבוּעַ יַשְׁבִּית זֶבַח וּמִנְחָה, וְעַל כְּנַף שִׁקּוּצִים מְשֹׁמֵם, וְעַד-כָּלָה וְנֶחֱרָצָה, תִּתַּךְ עַל-שֹׁמֵם. {פ}

9:27 And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease; and upon the wing of detestable things shall be that which causeth appalment; and that until the extermination wholly determined be poured out upon that which causeth appalment.

He...THE AC...MAKES A 7 YR COVENANT.

No. The Antichrist does not make a 7 year covenant, HE CONFIRMS A YEAR COVENANT. There is a difference.

Daniel 9
9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[ewq1938]

How can you possibly make this statement?
How many times am I going to post these verses until the light goes on?

Are you unable to understand that the tribulation is over when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven according to the Word of God below?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The events described did not occur at the time of the speaking/writing.

Are you unable to understand that the 6th seal is opened when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven according to the Word of God below?

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

From the above scriptures, how are you unable to conclude that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal when the sun of man comes in power and glory?

The events described did not occur at the time of the speaking/writing. Your mistake is thinking the events are happening rather than being described/seen in a vision by John. All the events described by Christ and John happen at the 7th trump, not in a seal and not on the mount of olives.

 

[The Light]

No
The ac makes a 7 yr treaty.
In the middle of it, he inaugurated the AOD.

Your model has the ac with a different arrival and the AOD starting the arrival.

NO. The Antichrist CONFIRMS a 7 year covenant with many.

There are two Antichrists. The rider on the white horse is the 1st Antichrist. He will arrive on the scene when the Church is raptured which will happen before the AOD is set up in the midst of the week.

 

[ewq1938]

NO. The Antichrist CONFIRMS a 7 year covenant with many.

There are two Antichrists. The rider on the white horse is the 1st Antichrist. He will arrive on the scene when the Church is raptured which will happen before the AOD is set up in the midst of the week.

There are many antichrist's through time but in the endtimes and the trib etc, there is one that has many names like AC and the beast etc. No writer of scipture ever said there are two ACs in the sense that you are but you also have multiple raptures in the endtimes and multiple comings of Christ all which are unscriptural.

 

[The Light]

Call the 7 yr covenant of the AC whatever suits you.

I'm calling it a 7 year covenant with many that the AC confirms............just what the Word of God says.

The prewrath, .. midtrib 7 yr trib gathereing Is Rev 14:14.

Pre wrath is not mid trib. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Then the 7th seal ONE YEAR wrath of God begins.

The AC starts, ratifies, makes, confirms, a 7 yr treaty and breaks it mid trib.

The AC confirms a 7 year covenant with many. He does not make the covenant. He also does not break the covenant mid trib. He breaks the covenant before the great tribulation begins.

 

[The Light]

The events described did not occur at the time of the speaking/writing.

Gee. No kidding. Here all this time I thought that Jesus returned with His angels when He was speaking. I thought that the second coming was over in 33AD.

The events described did not occur at the time of the speaking/writing. Your mistake is thinking the events are happening rather than being described/seen in a vision by John. All the events described by Christ and John happen at the 7th trump, not in a seal and not on the mount of olives.

Dude. Please get it together.

There is no one on this planet that thinks that the events described by Jesus happened when Jesus spoke about it.

I have no idea where your ideas come from.

But I will tell you when each seal is actually opened the events described in each seal will occur. I have no concept of why you would think that \ anything that Jesus spoke about happened when He spoke it. It's all prophecy.

 

[ewq1938]

Gee. No kidding. Here all this time I thought that Jesus returned with His angels when He was speaking. I thought that the second coming was over in 33AD.




Dude. Please get it together.

There is no one on this planet that thinks that the events described by Jesus happened when Jesus spoke about it.

Great, now explain why you can't see something similar being done in the seals? How does Jesus open the seals in such quick order without leaving heaven? He doesn't. He stays and opens all the seals and none of the events happen because just like on the mount, the events aren't happening when described/seen by John. All the events are STILL FUTURE in the OD and in the seals.

I have no idea where your ideas come from.

But I will tell you when each seal is actually opened the events described in each seal will occur. I

Nope.

have no concept of why you would think that \ anything that Jesus spoke about happened when He spoke it. It's all prophecy.

It IS ALL PROPHECY but you only understand that for the OD, but not the seals. It's all prophecy.

 

[The Light]

Great, now explain why you can't see something similar being done in the seals? How does Jesus open the seals in such quick order without leaving heaven? He doesn't.

I don't think you are understanding what you are reading. What Jesus tells us in the Olivet Discourse are the first six seals that John has a vision of. So Jesus opens the 1st six seals in order. When the 6th seal is opened, Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation and sends his angels to gather the elect for a harvest. Shown here.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

After this harvest, all return to heaven for the marriage supper, hence, a great multitude in heaven. The 7th seal is then opened and the great multitude remains in heaven during the ONE YEAR wrath of God. At the end wrath, the armies of heaven go to the earth, hence Armageddon.

So yes, Jesus leaves heaven at the 6th seal and return with the great multitude and then opens the 7th seal.

He stays and opens all the seals and none of the events happen because just like on the mount, the events aren't happening when described/seen by John. All the events are STILL FUTURE in the OD and in the seals.

Of course, the events aren't happening when they are described. No one is saying they are happening when described. And yes, of course all the events are still future. The events will occur when Jesus actually opens the seals. None of the seals are opened yet.

It IS ALL PROPHECY but you only understand that for the OD, but not the seals. It's all prophecy.

None of the seals are opened. Jesus tells us in the OD exactly what John tells us in the 1st 6 seals. You keep telling me that it's all prophecy and I already know that.

IT'S ALL PROPHECY. I have no clue why don't understand that I know it's all prophecy. When each seal is actually opened the events of that seal will occur........in the future.

 

[ewq1938]

When the 6th seal is opened, Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation and sends his angels to gather the elect for a harvest. Shown here.

When each seal is actually opened the events of that seal will occur........in the future.

You contradict yourself. A seal's events can't happen immediately AND be future.

All the seals are opened. None of the events they described happened when they were opened. The OD and the seals are BOTH prophetic and both happened in the first century. The events in both will only happen during the trumps.

 

[The Light]

You contradict yourself. A seal's events can't happen immediately AND be future.

There is no contradiction. What are you talking about? You say a seals event can't happen immediately and be future.

The sixth seal will be opened and then the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars fall from heaven. This will occur immediately after the tribulation...............in the future. No contradiction whatsoever.

All the seals are opened. None of the events they described happened when they were opened.

What do you mean all the seals are opened and yet none of the event have happened.

Why do you not see that John had a vision of what will happen when Jesus opens the 7 seals. They are not opened. It is a vision of the future.
When Jesus opens each seal in the future, the event will happen. This is not hard to understand. You take yourself off the tracks.

The OD and the seals are BOTH prophetic and both happened in the first century.

Totally and completely incorrect. This seems to be the root of your misunderstanding.

The events in both will only happen during the trumps.

None of the seals are opened.

If the seals were opened, we would know who the rider on the white horse is as he is the 7th king. So who is the seventh king? It has not happened.

You start out wrong and surely can't finish right.

 

[The Light]

The rules of grammar don't have a problem. Dispensationalism's anti-grammatical grade F nonsense does.

The Jews were fully complicit with the Romans in the destruction of Jerusalem.

The word "antichrist" is nonexistent in the OT. Explain what covenant nonexistence confirms.

Sure, the Jews tore down their own city and their own Temple. You can't possibly believe this. Well maybe you can.

Covenantee............Is the 7 year covenant spoken of in Daniel 9:27 the covenant you are under?

 

[ewq1938]

Totally and completely incorrect. This seems to be the root of your misunderstanding.

Actually it's one of many keys to understand Rev. The seals only show events that will happen in the trumps. All the seals were opened when Christ ascended in the first century. The seals are knowledge of future events only. Trumps are events that actually happen when a trump sounds. Seals always protected information, while trumps always were used to tell others to take immediate action.

 

[soberxp]

I guess you don't understand your Bible. The woman flees to her place of protection.. The day of atonement is for the woman, Israel.

You means the woman in the revolution?
12:6
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.