Man's Preterism, An Abomination

[ScottA]

Your suggesting that the biblical resurrection takes place at the believers individual personal death?

There is one future resurrection and final judgement of all that have lived, this takes place at the Lord's future second coming on the last day (The End)

I was not asking a question that you should answer, I was stating a fact.

But obviously you are considering the matter from the perspective of this world (and making the words fit those terms). I was not, but was giving the truth from God from His perspective rather than the perspective of this world.

 

[ScottA]

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


Which then ignores some of what the passage plainly says--Behold, he cometh with clouds. What you are proposing couldn't possibly explain that part. One can't divorce--and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him---from---Behold, he cometh with clouds


Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Interestingly enough, Revelation 1:7 involves coming with clouds, and involves all kindreds of the earth shall see Him and shall wail because of him, and so does Matthew 24:30 involve all these same things.

Not even Preterists, who, as wrong as they are a lot of the time, would remotely interpret Matthew 24:30 in the manner you are interpreting Revelation 1:7. It is a major red flag when one person alone is allegedly interpreting something correctly, but nobody else is. But at least it clearly exposes who some of the false teachers are.

I already gave the biblical scenario with what is written of Stephen. What is it about Stephen's experience you think is missing regarding the return of Jesus?

As for your "red flag" scenario--you just condemned most of the prophets. Good thing you are not actually Judge.

 

[Truth7t7]

I was not asking a question that you should answer, I was stating a fact.

But obviously you are considering the matter from the perspective of this world (and making the words fit those terms). I was not, but was giving the truth from God from His perspective rather than the perspective of this world.

You didn't state fact in my opinion, the resurrection of all takes place at the Lord's future second coming on the last day (The End)

 

[ScottA]

You didn't state fact in my opinion, the resurrection of all takes place at the Lord's future second coming on the last day (The End)

Opinions don't count.

You have it correct--but you are not understanding even what you yourself said.

When is "The End" for someone whose time ended yesterday, or a year ago, or a thousand years ago?

The times of "this world" are not the measure of the things of God, but only those things of men during their times. You error because you are not "rightly dividing the word of truth" regarding what is of this world and what is "not of this world."

 

[rwb]

And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:27-28

• To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time

He came once already.

He will come a second time to gather His people together at the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture, in which He destroys the wicked.

I agree, Christ shall come physically! Do you deny Christ also comes to man through His Spirit when they are born again?

 

[JLB]

I agree, Christ shall come physically! Do you deny Christ also comes to man through His Spirit when they are born again?

The Spirit of Christ dwells in those who are born again.


This has nothing to do with the coming of the Lord.

 

[Truth7t7]

Opinions don't count.

You have it correct--but you are not understanding even what you yourself said.

When is "The End" for someone whose time ended yesterday, or a year ago, or a thousand years ago?

The times of "this world" are not the measure of the things of God, but only those things of men during their times. You error because you are not "rightly dividing the word of truth" regarding what is of this world and what is "not of this world."

"The End Of This World" will take place on the day of the Lord when the existing heavens and earth are dissolved by the Lord's fire in final judgment, then it will be a new creation in the new Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, read it again and again and again

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[ScottA]

"The End Of This World" will take place at the day of the Lord when the existing heavens and earth are dissolved by the Lord's fire in final judgment, then it will be a new creation in the new Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, read it again and again and again

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

You're doing it again--not "rightly dividing the word of truth."

The day the Lord came (again) to Stephen, was that not "the Day of The Lord" and also "The End of This World" for Stephen, just as Paul said it would come, "but each one in his own order?"

That is exactly what it was...and that is what is written--and it explains a lot. It just doesn't fit with what you believe according to "your own understanding."

If you cannot imagine how it is possible...let's talk about it. But the worst thing you could do is repeat history and just remain stubbornly in what boils down to being your own opinion. Surely you know that is exactly what happened with much of Israel.

 

[rvmb]

Yes, for Stephen did not ascend, but Jesus and the Father came (again) to where he was--even showing that ascension is not actually up, but "within" as Jesus said, and only metaphorically up, as being "higher", as God is higher.

But the important thing to learn and to know--is He did not come in the "future" as some believe, but that very hour as Paul clarified, saying, "but each one in his own order."

""Yes, for Stephen did not ascend,""
Flesh didn't but what about spirit ?
Acts 7:59 ... receive my spirit.
""Jesus and the Father came (again) to where he was""
Verse/s please.
--even showing that ascension is not actually up,""
Acts 7: 55.. looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
""He did not come in the "future" as some believe, but that very hour as Paul clarified, saying""
Verse/s please.

 

[Truth7t7]

You're doing it again--not "rightly dividing the word of truth."

The day the Lord came (again) to Stephen, was that not "the Day of The Lord" and also "The End of This World" for Stephen, just as Paul said it would come, "but each one in his own order?"

That is exactly what it was...and that is what is written--and it explains a lot. It just doesn't fit with what you believe according to "your own understanding."

If you cannot imagine how it is possible...let's talk about it. But the worst thing you could do is repeat history and just remain stubbornly in what boils down to being your own opinion. Surely you know that is exactly what happened with much of Israel.

Scott you intentionally disregard the facts of scripture below as if they don't exist "SAD"!

You clearly see the words heavens, earth, elements, dissolved, fervent heat

Scott this existing heavens and earth will be dissolved, melted, down to its very elements, you're not going to redefine the English language seen below, or remove God's words before your eyes

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Truth7t7]

You're doing it again--not "rightly dividing the word of truth."

Scott you claim to have and reveal Daniel's sealed "Little Book", your claim is 100% Malarkey!​

"This Is That Book Now Revealed"?​

"Quote Scott Allen Below" ​

​

St. John’s Mystery - Revealed​

2024 - The apostle John was given a preview of a “little book” (in the book of Revelation), that was then to be sealed until a time just before the end.

This is that time, and this is that book—now revealed!

 

[Davy]

I agree the doctrine of Preterism does not come FROM the Bible, but must be READ INTO the Bible! But I don't see your understanding of the Bible coming FROM the Bible either, rather you're READING INTO the Bible desperately trying to prove your unbiblical doctrines!

The Bible does indeed show us there are two comings of Christ in human form. But the Bible also show us that Christ shall come through His Spirit to be within every believer when man is born again.

You lack understanding of how Christ is NOW, since He ascended to heaven, after He arose from the dead, reigning over the whole earth through His Spirit that is within every true saint, as He through His Spirit enters within every true believer. That is Christ coming to us in SPIRIT!

You have no knowledge of the spiritual Kingdom of God that Christ came to man with, that's why you try to divide Zech prophecy as though he is writing of two separate physical comings of Christ as man to be upon this earth. The prophets ALL write only of a single coming of the Messiah to earth a man, saying all they prophecy shall be fulfilled not with two physical comings of Christ to this earth. NO! But that all they have written concerning the promised Messiah would be fulfilled when He would come with the Kingdom of God to earth as man ONCE. Then Christ will be seen in human form coming again with the clouds when the last trumpet begins to sound the Kingdom of God in heaven is complete and time for this earth shall be no longer.

BEWARE brethren of the mockers who spend more time mocking than actually proving their claims by actually resorting to the Bible Scriptures.

 

[Davy]

I think I see the issue. For your version to work, you need for there to be two kingdoms of God (a spiritual and a literal) and two second comings of Christ (a spiritual and a literal). How do you discern which coming a verse is talking about?

I have NO personal version. I revealed what The Bible Scripture actually states, particular what Lord Jesus said in John 18:36 that His Kingdom is NOT... of this present world, but people like you choose to believe MEN instead of Lord Jesus. That means you are not what I would call a real Christian, so I will have nothing to do with you.

 

[rwb]

The Spirit of Christ dwells in those who are born again.


This has nothing to do with the coming of the Lord.

When the Spirit of the Lord dwells within man that is Christ' coming through HIS Spirit. That's why before leaving this world Christ tells us He would come again soon, and that He is near. This is not Christ coming again in human form, but it is nonetheless Him coming to us, showing us that through His Spirit in us we can be with Him in heaven, where He is! Heaven, the spiritual habitation of God, no man could go without Christ being in us through His Spirit. And when His Spirit came to each believer as we are born again, we obtained entrance into heaven so that we could be with Christ forever. Believers don't have to wait for Christ to come the second time to be with Him and He to be with us. He is with us always through His Spirit unto the end of the world.

John 14:18 (KJV) I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 14:2-4 (KJV) In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Matthew 18:20 (KJV) For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Matthew 28:20 (KJV) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

We're fixated on this physical/material world, but the Kingdom of God that is within every believer is not spiritually bound in this world. Through His Spirit in us, we have both KNOWN and ENTERED the Kingdom of God that is now in heaven and within us through Christ's Spirit in us. We cannot be with Christ physically until He comes again to make all things new, but we are spiritually with Christ through His Spirit in us forever, SPIRITS of men made perfect being justified according to grace through faith, and nothing, not even being in a body of flesh can separate us from Him.

Hebrews 12:22-23 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Just as Christ ascended to the heavenly realm above, so too, we who have been born again of His Spirit have been made spiritually alive and raised up spiritually together with Him in the realm of God.

Ephesians 1:19-20 (KJV) And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Ephesians 2:5-6 (KJV) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Romans 8:33-39 (KJV) Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[rwb]

Because many are dead...which, for the dead, is when every eye shall see.

This is a great mystery: We all leave this world "but each one in his own order"--but we all arrive in the presence of God--together.

Every eye shall see Christ's appearance. Those still alive when He shall come again, will see the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and they shall see Him coming in the clouds. Those who have died will also see Him coming again when they are called from the graves to stand before God in judgment according to all that is written in the books and the book of life. Because the day of judgment shall also be in the day that Christ comes again.

Matthew 24:30-31 (KJV) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[rwb]

Two different worlds, JLB. The resurrection is an entirely new world - a spiritual world, not earthly. In the spiritual world, also known as heavenly Jerusalem or the Kingdom of Heaven, there is no such thing as marriage.

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

There is both a spiritual world and a natural world. When man is born again of the Spirit of Christ within, they have entered with Christ SPIRITUALLY into the world that is not of this natural world but is the habitation of God. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the spiritual world because that world is eternal and flesh & blood is condemned to die. Those who obtain that spiritual world must be born again through the Spirit of Christ within us. We don't enter the spiritual world by being physically resurrected to life again. We can only know and enter the spiritual realm of God by being born again through the Spirit of Christ. Entrance into "that world" means man is now spiritually the bride of Christ, which is why the children of that world do not marry. Because we have become part of the spiritual world through the resurrection life of Christ, and equal to the angels of God spiritually we never die again. Because when we have part in the resurrection of Christ, we have part in His death, through trespasses and sins. When we have been born again from above, we have been planted together with Him in the likeness of His Death, and through His resurrection, we are also risen with Him SPIRITUALLY.

Romans 6:3-5 (KJV) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Colossians 2:12-15 (KJV) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

This is a picture of Christ coming to each believer through His Spirit in us when we have been born again. It is not a depiction of the bodily resurrection that shall come to ALL the dead when the last trumpet sounds that time shall be no longer. It is only true that Christ will resurrect our mortal/corruptible body of flesh to immortal/incorruptible body of flesh at the resurrection in an hour that is coming when ALL who are in the graves shall be bodily resurrected to forever life with Christ on the new earth, or resurrected to condemnation in the lake of fire that is the second death. But the resurrection that shall spare believers from the second death is the resurrection of Christ we must have part in before we die. And His IS the only resurrection we MUST have part in to live with Christ forever in the new heaven and new earth that shall be when Christ comes again at the end of this world to usher in a new world that shall never end.

 

[rwb]

Opinions don't count.

You have it correct--but you are not understanding even what you yourself said.

When is "The End" for someone whose time ended yesterday, or a year ago, or a thousand years ago?

The times of "this world" are not the measure of the things of God, but only those things of men during their times. You error because you are not "rightly dividing the word of truth" regarding what is of this world and what is "not of this world."

Aren't you conflating the end of human life with the end of this world?

 

[ScottA]

""Yes, for Stephen did not ascend,""
Flesh didn't but what about spirit ?
Acts 7:59 ... receive my spirit.
""Jesus and the Father came (again) to where he was""
Verse/s please.
--even showing that ascension is not actually up,""
Acts 7: 55.. looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
""He did not come in the "future" as some believe, but that very hour as Paul clarified, saying""
Verse/s please.

You have quoted the verses.

That all was from the perspective of "this world" so "up" was part of the presentation to metaphorically demonstrate that God is "higher." But Stephen did not go anywhere--that is the point--and it all happened then at that time, not in the future (as many believe).

 

[ScottA]

Every eye shall see Christ's appearance. Those still alive when He shall come again, will see the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and they shall see Him coming in the clouds. Those who have died will also see Him coming again when they are called from the graves to stand before God in judgment according to all that is written in the books and the book of life. Because the day of judgment shall also be in the day that Christ comes again.

Matthew 24:30-31 (KJV) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

"Called from the grave" is "this world" language for all who have died ("but each one in his own order"). If you will notice, that is not what it actually says in the verses you quoted.

 

[ScottA]

Aren't you conflating the end of human life with the end of this world?

The end is the end.

Time is the measure of the things of this world, not of the things of God. So, yes, whenever one comes to the end of their time in this world "but each one in his own order", for them--each one--it is the end of this world.