Man's Preterism, An Abomination

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ScottA

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Your claim is blasphemy in my opinion, you deny the immortal glorified body of Jesus Christ after his resurrection "Sad"

Jesus rose from the grave in a tangible body of flesh and bone that could appear and disappear from human sight, a body that could be handled and ate earthly food

Scripture clearly teaches that the believer will receive a glorified immortal body of flesh and bone at the second coming and resurrection of all, just as Jesus
You misundstand. Your understanding does not make how you understand something true.

The glory of Jesus is the glory of the Father--that is what makes Him "perfect" the third day--because "your Father is perfect"--and is not flesh and bone (as you say), but is spirit. And what did Jesus say? Not at all what you said--but "you shall be perfect for your Father in heaven is perfect." Spirit.

But your misunderstanding is, considering Jesus being bodily raised from the grave as being the resurrection. That it was not, but was to show that He had defeated death. But to the contrary, it was Jesus' ascension that showed the resurrection--but only half, for men cannot see the spirit (the other half of what occurred), unless it is revealed to them by God.
 
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ScottA

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Is that like follow ScottA and his teachings or your going to end up in Hell?

P.S. the spelling is "Will" not "Well"
What is in you that you would say such a thing?

Have I ever said "Follow me?" No.

On the contrary, I have said many times that what I have said is not my own, but His who sent me.
 

rwb

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If you think you and him are not lacking in discernment as it relates to 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, then how about addressing what I said in post #86 and show that? It seems that all you can ever do anymore is divert attention by bringing up other topics instead of addressing the topic at hand.

1 Corinthians 15:20 (KJV) But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Who are the dead for whom the resurrection of Christ is NOW (since His resurrection) the firstfruits of? How do you define firstfruits?

1 Corinthians 15:17-19 (KJV) And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Paul shows us that the resurrection of Christ gives us assurance that the dead in Christ have not perished, because THEY are the firstfruits of Christ SPIRITUALLY! Why? Because if they have not become the firstfruits of the Spirit of Christ then they which have died in Christ before His coming to them through His Spirit have perished because they died before possessing ETERNAL LIFE through the Spirit of Christ in them. How can the dead in Christ be saved without possessing the Spirit that gives eternal life to all who believe?

Christ through His Spirit is the first to be spiritually alive after death and three days later through the same Spirit in Him His dead body was raised to life again. Then through His Spirit sent to make spiritually alive all who are ordained to eternal life through Him, those of faith from before Christ came became the firstfruits of the Spirit and ascended with Christ a spiritual body as living souls to heaven. Through His Spirit in us, not only they but we too are now firstfruits of Christ through His Spirit sent to be in us. This is how Christ spiritually comes to man of faith before we physically die. That's why Paul writes "afterward they a that are Christ's at His coming."

Luke 23:46 (KJV) And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

1 Corinthians 15:23 (KJV) But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Romans 8:23 (KJV) And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Revelation 14:4 (KJV) These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Once whosoever is ordained to eternal life has been spiritually delivered up unto the Father in the Kingdom of God in heaven when all rule and authority have been put down and all enemies destroyed, even the last enemy that is death. When God's kingdom is fully established in heaven over the universe. It shall then be seen that He is Lord of all. In the previous verses he had spoken of the promise that all things should be subjected to God; in this he speaks of its being actually done.

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 (KJV) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1 Corinthians 15:35 (KJV) But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

1 Corinthians 15:46 (KJV) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Paul appeared to be speaking to a people who not only doubted the resurrection of Christ, but who equally had no understanding of eternal life through the Spirit sent from Christ in us. Paul goes into great detail showing us the body that is dead is NOT the body that shall be quickened to life after death. The body that is dead and buried is natural flesh, borne in the image of the earth destined to die. But the body raised is not the natural body, but is the body that God gives, heavenly/celestial body in the image of the heavenly. The natural body the image of natural man, the spiritual body the image of Christ in heaven. The body sown natural is raised a "spiritual body" that ascends to heaven through the Spirit of Christ in us, as living soul without human form when our natural body has died.

Because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, therefore the natural body of dust must also be resurrected to life again, changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible when the last trumpet sounds.

1 Corinthians 15:48-50 (KJV) As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
 

rvmb

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You have quoted the verses.

That all was from the perspective of "this world" so "up" was part of the presentation to metaphorically demonstrate that God is "higher." But Stephen did not go anywhere--that is the point--and it all happened then at that time, not in the future (as many believe).
""That all was from the perspective of "this world" so "up" was part of the presentation to metaphorically demonstrate that God is "higher."""
Please list the verses that teach Acts 7:55.."" looked up stedfastly into heaven,"" is a metaphor.
***
""But Stephen did not go anywhere""
What verses teach that his spirit did not go anywhere ?
**
""He did not come in the "future" as some believe, but that very hour as Paul clarified, saying""
Please list the verses you are referring to.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Your claim is blasphemy in my opinion, you deny the immortal glorified body of Jesus Christ after his resurrection "Sad"

Jesus rose from the grave in a tangible body of flesh and bone that could appear and disappear from human sight, a body that could be handled and ate earthly food

Scripture clearly teaches that the believer will receive a glorified immortal body of flesh and bone at the second coming and resurrection of all, just as Jesus
Not only that, but he also denies the future glorious bodily second coming of Jesus Christ. This guy is part of some cult, but I'm not sure which one. Maybe his own one man cult.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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We don't agree on everything
Obviously.

, but you have it 100% correct here, as rwb and ScottA are way out in left field trying to find the dugout
Agree. And I honestly don't know why that is the case. I think 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 is pretty straightforward, yet they are not even close to understanding it correctly.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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1 Corinthians 15:20 (KJV) But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Who are the dead for whom the resurrection of Christ is NOW (since His resurrection) the firstfruits of? How do you define firstfruits?
I already explained how I understand the word. The Greek word can also mean "firstfruit". It indicates that Christ Himself is the firstfruits or firstfruit "of them that slept" (of the dead in Christ). In that verse it is used to show that Christ's resurrection ensures that "them that slept" which are the dead in Christ will also be bodily resurrected unto bodily immortality like He was. He was the first to be bodily resurrected unto bodily immortality. Next in order to be bodily resurrected unto bodily immortality are those who belong to Him at His second coming, according to 1 Corinthians 15:23. Very simple. Bodily resurrections are what are in view in 1 Corinthians 15:20-23. As you are prone to do, you are making something simple into something complicated for no good reason.

1 Corinthians 15:17-19 (KJV) And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Paul shows us that the resurrection of Christ gives us assurance that the dead in Christ have not perished, because THEY are the firstfruits of Christ SPIRITUALLY!
You failed to carefully look at what is actually written in 1 Corinthians 15:20. It does not say that "them that slept" are the firstfruits. It says that Christ Himself is the firstfruit(s)...of them that slept. You are changing the text. Try reading 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 again with the proper understanding that Christ Himself is the firstfruit(s) (of them that slept) rather than them that slept being the firstfruits, which is not what Paul said. If you do that then you can see that the order of resurrections that Paul gave was Christ's first and then next in order are those who are Christ's at His second coming. The entire passage is only about bodily resurrections unto bodily immortality, which Paul goes on to write more about in the rest of the chapter.
 

ScottA

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""That all was from the perspective of "this world" so "up" was part of the presentation to metaphorically demonstrate that God is "higher."""
Please list the verses that teach Acts 7:55.."" looked up stedfastly into heaven,"" is a metaphor.
***
""But Stephen did not go anywhere""
What verses teach that his spirit did not go anywhere ?
**
""He did not come in the "future" as some believe, but that very hour as Paul clarified, saying""
Please list the verses you are referring to.
List the verses? No, you quoted them already well enough.

As "up" God is "higher." I said that. It is written.

But I did not say Stephen's spirit didn't go anywhere. I was saying he didn't need to good anywhere--the point being, that Jesus came (returned) to him personally (again)--then,not in the future but as Paul said, "but each one in his own order." And now I have repeated it again.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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List the verses? No, you quoted them already well enough.

As "up" God is "higher." I said that. It is written.

But I did not say Stephen's spirit didn't go anywhere. I was saying he didn't need to good anywhere--the point being, that Jesus came (returned) to him personally (again)--then,not in the future but as Paul said, "but each one in his own order." And now I have repeated it again.
Show us where it says that Jesus came to Stephen personally when he died.
 

rvmb

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List the verses? No, you quoted them already well enough.

As "up" God is "higher." I said that. It is written.

But I did not say Stephen's spirit didn't go anywhere. I was saying he didn't need to good anywhere--the point being, that Jesus came (returned) to him personally (again)--then,not in the future but as Paul said, "but each one in his own order." And now I have repeated it again.
""List the verses? No, you quoted them already well enough.""
How is Acts 7:55.."" looked up stedfastly into heaven,"" a metaphor ?
**
""He did not come in the "future" as some believe, but that very hour as Paul clarified, saying""
""List the verses? No, you quoted them already well enough.""

How does Acts 7:55 answer what Paul clarified ?
 

Truth7t7

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Obviously.


Agree. And I honestly don't know why that is the case. I think 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 is pretty straightforward, yet they are not even close to understanding it correctly.
I agree, straightforward and easy to understand, they use bits and pieces to mold the false teachings promoted
 

rvmb

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Jesus said the kingdom of God "is within you" and yet it is written that God is "higher."

But...come on people--YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS STUFF.
""He did not come in the "future" as some believe, but that very hour as Paul clarified, saying""
You made a claim about Paul
Please list the verse FROM Paul :)
 

ScottA

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How does Acts 7:55 answer what Paul clarified ?
Because Paul's clarification was to say "but" Christ's returning/the resurrection would come to each person individually (check the original language and meaning)...and that is what happened with Stephen.
 
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rvmb

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Because Paul's clarification was to say "but" Christ's returning/the resurrection would come to each person individually (check the original language and meaning)...and that is what happens within Stephen.
""and that is what happens within Stephen.""
That was BEFORE Paul was Apostle & Minister
""clarification was to say "but" Christ's returning/the resurrection would come to each person individually"""
The request is for the verse, list the Paul verse/s please
 

ScottA

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Who sent you?

You speak in riddles without explanation?
The Lord God Almighty.

Yes, we're not completely finished with parables. Only now much of it is people stuck in the former parable language not able to understand what is plainly stated, as if the plain truth were tongues or parables, or one drunkon wine.
 
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