"True" Israel?

[brightfame52]

The Church is Israel[Not National Israel], the Spiritual Kingdom of God, and we know this by many promises made to Israel in the OT times find its ultimate fulfillment in the NT Gospel dispensation, for instance, when Paul wrote to a gentile city church assembly, Corinth, designating them Saints 1 Cor 1:2

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

The word saints here is the greek word hagios:

set apart by (or for) God, holy, sacred.

They were a people set apart from the world, and when writing his second epistle to them, he applied OT promises made to Israel , he applied to them 2 Cor 6:14-18

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. 11

 

[soberxp]

So is that Racial prejudice that I see !

And Spiritual means nothing, for their are many sprits in fact !

But their is only One Holy Spirit !

The Letter ? the words of the Bible. are you saying such has nothing in you ?

Now in regards of the words ? The Devil himself knows the words of the Bible better than all ? but such workers of Deceptions that such work so as to twist the words and play lines games to others, who are not Saved. who swallow the Deceptions because they are under such Delusions !

When the Devil himself tryed to tempt Jesus, Jesus quoted from the Bible ! and the Devil had no come back ! Jesus exposed the Devil for who he truly only is in fact !

Carnal or even religious dupe is truly only of This world in fact ! for such are under Delusions and Deceptions.

In 1979 I watched a show called Monkey Magic. it was a real good show, if anyone had the ability to understand what was being put forward in each show, for it was a lesson that was being convayed of Spiritual insight that is to do with reality in fact !
Now myself being into Ju Jitsu from the age of 6yo listened very carfully to such things. when others were to stupid to understand such, mainly due to ignorance ! my dad did not even understand it, lost in his own little world. as most people are, and bagging me for having an intrest ! Haha what fools ! because one can learn a lot if one is awake.

Sure their are other Monkey Magic Shows that came out later on TV but they are nothing but total trash and totaly moronic garbage, and Satanic !
Why is that, well because the original Show is about enlightenment !
So the new age Satanist brought in only depravity to such a show ! so as to muddy the waters.

Funny that most people in Australia even in the 1980's were ignorant of all Asians, clearly their thinking was that they were all inferiour race's in fact. funny how such a topic can be so easy turn around, but not from any true foundations tho ! for the perception is still an ignorant one, but only comming from a simple delusional perception of fitting in with the trends only ! haha for they have No foundations truly to speek of.
But the majority think they are so smart and with it ! not to mention all must only see things the same way as a Trend does or else !
That's still how pathetic the majority are. because they are not educated but only endoctrinated ego inspired dipsticks.
They get everything wrong ! not worthy to talk to in any depth and are quick to anger and want to stand over you if you are not in line with the trend gods.

But the Show clearly teaches such things are delusions in fact !

Your word that is your good and evil.
I don't want to use the word "Israel ", because I am Chinese.
I am not for the letter the word "Israel ", I am for the God.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ronald,
Moses most definitely "had a clue" who Jesus was, according to the scriptures:

“By faith Moses… chose rather to suffer affliction with the people of God… Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt” Hebrews 11:24–26


“For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.” John 5:46


“The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee… unto him ye shall hearken.” Duet 18:15


Acts 3:20 & 7:37 both says that Prophet Moses wrote of was Christ:

"20 and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus. 21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. 22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.’" Acts 3:20-23


“This is that Moses, which said… A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up" Acts 7:37


"1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." 1 Corinthians 10:1-4



"Beginning at Moses and all the prophets, Jesus expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.”
Luke 24:7


Paul quoted Moses in Deut 30, speaking of Christ:

“The word is nigh thee… that is, the word of faith, which we preach.” Romans 10:5-8


Paul says the gospel was “preached before unto Abraham.” Moses recorded that promise. Galatians 3:8–9

If Moses wrote the promise that all nations would be blessed through Abraham’s seed, and Paul says that seed is Christ (Gal 3:16), then Moses was literally writing gospel.

Moses knew the coming of a Messiah, as did Adam and Eve and David and solomon et al. But that doesn't equate knowing who Jesus was personally or even His name. His name was not revealed until His birth.

 

[amigo de christo]

The Church is Israel[Not National Israel], the Spiritual Kingdom of God, and we know this by many promises made to Israel in the OT times find its ultimate fulfillment in the NT Gospel dispensation, for instance, when Paul wrote to a gentile city church assembly, Corinth, designating them Saints 1 Cor 1:2

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

The word saints here is the greek word hagios:

set apart by (or for) God, holy, sacred.

They were a people set apart from the world, and when writing his second epistle to them, he applied OT promises made to Israel , he applied to them 2 Cor 6:14-18

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. 11

verily verily i do type unto thee
And who do we think paul was making mention of when he said
AND TO THE ISRAEL OF GOD . A hint , THOSE WHO BELEIVED IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
Wherein THEIR JERUSALEM IS HEAVENLY , wherein THEIR TEMPLE IS GOD AND THE LAMB .
THE HEAVENLY . IT was always going to be about the HEAVENLY
by which the earthern FOR A TIME was patterned
BUT THAT IN JESUS THE CHRIST WOULD BE FULLFILLED and THE HEAVENLY ITSELF REVEALED .
Most folks call that blasphemy , BUT IT BE T RUTH . YE have come UNTO MOUNT ZION
and the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM .

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Your word that is your good and evil.
I don't want to use the word "Israel ", because I am Chinese.
I am not for the letter the word "Israel ", I am for the God.

Good and evil ? I do not buy into any such possition nor idolise any such from a carnal consepth.

The word Israel, is fantastic !

What god or gods ? is the issue.

By Chinese are you stating yourself, as in regards as a Racist issue ? All Socialist and Communist can not get past such simple concepts being an issues that clouds their mind.

 

[soberxp]

Good and evil ? I do not buy into any such possition nor idolise any such from a carnal consepth.

The word Israel, is fantastic !

What god or gods ? is the issue.

By Chinese are you stating yourself, as in regards as a Racist issue ? All Socialist and Communist can not get past such simple concepts being an issues that clouds their mind.

So we should call ourselves the kingdom of God. Godnese....

 

[brightfame52]

The Church is Israel because, Christ the Head of His Body the Church, is also likewise the Mediator of the New Covenant which only the blessings of are promised to Israel. Christ is the Head of the Church Eph 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

This same Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant/Testament Heb 12:24

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

1 Tim 2:5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

The Body of People which benefit from their interest in the New Covenant Promises through the Mediator is Israel Heb 8:6-13

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. 11

 

[brightfame52]

We know that the Church under the NT is the fulfillment of Israel from the OT, because Jesus Christ is their High Priest at the Right Hand of God. Now the writer of the Book of Hebrews, writing to the elect remnant of jews in the early church, writes that Christ as the New Covenant Mediator, the Mediator of the New Covenant, which was promised to the House of Israel, that He has fulfilled many of those promises by His Death, and is now at the right Hand of God ! Heb 8:6

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 12:24

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 8:1

Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Is not this the same Jesus at the right hand of God as per Paul writing to the gentile church in rome ? Rom 8:34

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Isnt He there making Intercession for the saints Rom 1:7

To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 8:27

And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Isnt it therefore the same people being spoken of in the Hebrews letter Heb 7:25

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Is there a dichtomy in Jesus being at the right hand of God for two different people, the Church, then ethnic jews ? Is He seperating His Intercession activity, interceding for the Church on the right, and ethnic jews on the left ?

God forbid ! They are all one people, the Israel of God ! 12

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

So we should call ourselves the kingdom of God. Godnese....

No !

 

[RepentingChristian]

Paul clearly lied when he wrote this scripture. Jesus isn't going to save the Jews; he's going to torture them FOREVER in Hell and they've got it coming to them!

Romans 11:25
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:[a] a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

 

[brightfame52]

Paul writing to a gentile church in Colossi writes to them Col 3:1

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

In Vs 12 he calls them the elect of God 12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 12

 

[brightfame52]

The Church of Christ, Hid Body and Israel are the same because, the Gentiles that are now called under the NC times initiated by the Death of Christ Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament/covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

That they are joint partakers of the New Covenant Promises, which are Gospel Promises, made to the House of Israel and Judah Jer 31:31

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Gentiles were secretly included in this New Covenant Gospel promises, which Paul clarified here Eph 3:1-6

For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

The Gospel is a publication of what God has guaranteed in covenant to His Chosen people;

 

[brightfame52]

The Church is revealed to be Israel in that many of the promises of God to Israel under the OTC are fulfilled with the Church in the NTC for instance, God said to the nation Ex 19:5

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

Notice, they shall be a peculiar treasure unto God,

Now this has been fulfilled by God unto the Church for example, writing to Titus Paul writes Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Now the word peculiar in Ex 19:5 is sᵊḡullâ:

1. possession, property
   
   1. valued property, peculiar treasure
   2. treasure

The word peculiar in Titus 2:14 is periousios:

1. that which is one's own, belonging to one's possessions
   1. a people selected by God from the other nations for his own possession

Now does God have two special peculiar people ? No, that defeats the purpose of being pecuilar and seperated from others for ones special possession.

But since Christ has kept gods covenant for a People, and redeemed them with His Blood, the promise to Israel in Ex 19:5 is fulfilled by and through Christ unto the Church, for as it is written 2 Cor 1:20

20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

All the promises of God, to include the one made in Ex 19:5 are confirmed and fulfilled by and in Him Christ the Covenant of the People who kept the covenant Isa 42:6

I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

See Gentiles were included in that covenant ! 13

 

[brightfame52]

Has the Church replaced Israel, God forbid, the Church the Body of Christ is Israel to which the Promises are made. No the Church isn't the physical nation which is called Israel, but that remnant Israel according to the election of grace. Remember Two Israel's are mentioned in Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: One of these Israel's is the then existing Physical nation, and the other is a remnant of that nation according to the election of Grace in Christ.

Paul distinguishes them once again here in Rom 11:1-7

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew{Remnant Israel]. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel[national] hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election[remnant Israel/Church] hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded[national Israel].

So the Two Israel's are National a physical nation, Spiritual Israel a Chosen remnant according to the Election of Grace, which I contend is the Church Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 14

 

[Wick Stick]

Has the Church replaced Israel, God forbid, the Church the Body of Christ is Israel to which the Promises are made. No the Church isn't the physical nation which is called Israel, but that remnant Israel according to the election of grace. Remember Two Israel's are mentioned in Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: One of these Israel's is the then existing Physical nation, and the other is a remnant of that nation according to the election of Grace in Christ.

Paul distinguishes them once again here in Rom 11:1-7

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew{Remnant Israel]. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel[national] hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election[remnant Israel/Church] hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded[national Israel].

So the Two Israel's are National a physical nation, Spiritual Israel a Chosen remnant according to the Election of Grace, which I contend is the Church Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 14

I have become convinced somewhat recently that the "Judaism" we have known for the last two millennia is actually the national religion of the Edomites. And the historical "Jews" as well, seem to be Esau's heirs, rather than Jacob's.

Cousins... of the stock of Abraham... but not the elect.

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

In the 2nd century BC, John Hyrcanus was both king and high priest in Judah. John forcibly converted the Edomites to the Jewish religion, executing those who didn't convert.

The Edomite religion wasn't THAT different from Judaism anyway. They already revered YHWH as their main God. The major difference was that the Edomites knew that they were un-elect. They viewed themselves as exiles under a curse, whose duty was to ACCEPT the punishments that YHWH had meted out on them (e.g. a complete ban on farming).

So, many Edomites EMBRACED their conversion. It was strictly an upgrade to go from "God's cursed people" to "God's chosen people." They became some of the staunchest adherents of the law. They blended into the Jewish population, started identifying as Jews, and many became teachers and doctors of the law.

But there's a problem, here, because they didn't really become chosen, they remained cursed. They still viewed God as angry and punitive, and they began using the law as an instrument of punishment. The Law was a grievous burden to be born for the Edomite.

That should sound familiar. In the New Testament, we find the Jews weighed down under the Law in just that way, by the Pharisees and doctors of the Law. And it's no wonder, as the 1st century Jews were a mixed group with all those absorbed Edomites among them.

In the gospels, we find Jesus talking about Wheat and Tares, and Sheep and Goats, and about a SORTING that is to come, where they would be separated. It's not a stretch to interpret that as being about the mixed Judah/Edom.

And, of course, that sorting happened in 70AD. After the war with Rome, only 2 sects remained - the Pharisees, and the Christians.

The promises and the election and the good news belong to Christianity. We are Jacob's heir.

The Pharisee religion continues with fastidious observance of the Law, embracing the judgments and punishments of a God who does not seem to like them. We've called that 'Judaism' for the last 2,000 years, but it looks to me like they are just Esau's true heir. Still paying for that pot of stew!

 

[doctrox]

"True" Israel?​

Many sincere Bible students have been deceived by the tactics of the Rapture Cult on many different fronts. One of the most notorious efforts is found in Romans 11 where a casual reading of a single verse, taken out of context, can be twisted to make it appear that at some future point God will miraculously convert all Jewish people to Christianity. This teaching is an abomination as that particular lie is deeply rooted in the Antichrist system we identify as the Rapture Cult.

For openers, the primary difficulty in this understanding the truth of this verse is the Apostle Paul's seemingly abrupt shift in focal points in and around verse 26 - "And so all Israel shall be saved." A close analysis will indicate that what he actually does is make a concluding point to his prior statements in the chapter. It was because of this contextual fluidity that I kept moving further and further back in the chapter in order to reconstruct the flow of his thoughts.

Several things can help in understanding this passage. First, recognize you're reading a letter that has ALREADY addressed who Israel is several pages (chapters) previously. Paul has ALREADY elaborated extensively on, and identified the "seed" of Abraham as being fulfilled in the promised Messiah (1:3, 9:8).

Paul has ALREADY elaborated on the fact that "Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children" (9:7). Paul has already stated that the "promise" to the SEED of Abraham [which is Christ], "that he should be heir of the world," was not through the law [a phenomena that was peculiar to Israel] but by faith.

Paul has ALREADY clearly stated that "they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (9:8)

One may suppose, since Paul has repeatedly instructed the churches in each city to read the epistles written to the other churches (Col 4:16, I Thess 5:27) that the Romans had read the Galatian epistle written several years previously. Thus, Paul has ALREADY stated that "if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Gal 3:29)

Thus, by the time we get to chapter 11 of Romans, it has already been established there are two Israels - "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" (Rom 9:6). In a similar vein, it has already been established there are two groups of Jews - "He is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, But he is a Jew which is one inwardly...in the spirit" (Rom 2:28).

All these statements have preceded the statement that "all Israel shall be saved". Had Paul said "and so, all Jews shall be saved," there would probably be no question he was speaking of the "inward" Jews, but because he used the collective term "Israel" immediately after having referred to what could be distinguished as 'natural' Israel, there is some difficulty in recognizing WHICH Israel he is referring to in which "ALL" are saved.

A good question would be, is it consistent to think that Paul has spent chapter upon chapter repeatedly articulating how Israel "stumbled" because they did not embrace the Messiah by FAITH as the seed of Abraham, then abruptly say 'Oh well, they're all going to be saved anyway?' Or another variation would be, 'it won't matter in the long run, because no matter what they do, all Israel shall be saved.'

This 'predestined irresistible grace' is the proposition being put forth by the Dispensationalists. It runs counter to the overwhelming body of Scripture, and the central theme of the New Testament.

The claim that God must save all of physical Israel is usually based on a perceived irrevocable promise to that particular family - but a carrying over into the modern era of a perceived promise to "remember" Israel ignores the fact that the promise to "remember" Israel was already fulfilled in the Messiah's arrival. Furthermore, the "remnant" that is prophesied to be saved among the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" are specified to exist in the early Christian church.

Because Paul has already repeatedly stated there is such a thing as a "remnant" of Israel (11:4,5) and there are two "Israels" with an unbelieving Israel that is not "the Israel of God" (Gal 3:29) - it is consistent for him to be referring to the 'saved' Israel when he writes "all Israel shall be saved."

Conversely, it is not consistent with the preponderance of New Testament doctrine to think he is saying all the Jews will be saved, when there is no such promise, prophecy, or explicit statement anywhere in Scripture. The lack of Scripture promising that "all" of physical Israel will be saved doesn't even account for the last two thousand years of history - to say nothing of the fact that every indication we have is that the modern Israeli nation is up to their eyeballs in the present apostasy.

 

[Wick Stick]

Conversely, it is not consistent with the preponderance of New Testament doctrine to think he is saying all the Jews will be saved, when there is no such promise, prophecy, or explicit statement anywhere in Scripture. The lack of Scripture promising that "all" of physical Israel will be saved doesn't even account for the last two thousand years of history - to say nothing of the fact that every indication we have is that the modern Israeli nation is up to their eyeballs in the present apostasy.

There's a real case to be made that the modern Israeli nation isn't even Israeli. Neither after the flesh nor after the spirit.

 

[brightfame52]

Hints of scripture helps us more fully understand that Israel not national, but elect remnant Israel that was within the nation are the same. Now Paul says that God had not cast away His People that He foreknew Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

Who he identifies as the election of grace remnant in Vs 5-7

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel[national] hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election[Israel remnant] hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

So remnant Israel sre the ones God foreknew as His People. So they are the other Israel in Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel[remnant], which are of Israel[national]:

Now remember Paul earlier in the same letter wrote of the same foreknown in Rom 8:28-29

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This passage is in reference to the Church. His specific dissertation about national israel had not yet begun. So the foreknown of God in both Rom 8:29 and Rom 11:2 are the same people, and we know Paul identified them as Remnant Israel in Rom 11:5-6 the election of grace. So both references are elect remnant israel and the church ! Thats the mystery.

How confusing it would be to the readers of this epistle if Gods foreknown were different people in Rom 8:29 from Rom 11:2 but its not confusing if we understand they are one and the same, which I believe Paul Illustrated beautifully in Rom 11 with the Olive Tree discourse Rom 11:16-26 14

 

[brightfame52]

Now the remnant Israel elect Paul said God has not cast them away, the foreknown Rom 11:2, the reason why is because, since they are the same ones of Rom 8:29, they had been predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son Rom 8:29-30

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

So thats why God had not and will not cast away His People whom He foreknew Rom 11:1-2

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

 

[brightfame52]

Now elect Israel the remnant has transitioned from its OT Idenity with OT National Israel and has been confirmed under the NT Covenant made to Israel Jer 31, confirmed in and by Christ the establisher of the NT Covenant Heb 8:13

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. This has been how the Israel Kingdom has been restored, through the Blood of Christ Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

And gentiles are partakers 1 Cor 11:25

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Corinth was a gentile church !