When Might Satan With His Angels Come to This Earth For the Tribulation?

[Davy]

The Bible says:

"How you are fallen from heaven , O Day Star, son of the Dawn." (Isaiah 14:12).

If he is not in heaven, then earth is the only other place I know of that he could be. In fact, the Bible verifies this:

o "Be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion *walks about* seeking whom he may devour." (1Peter 5:8)

o "And the great Dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the receiver of the whole world --he was *thrown down to the earth,* and his angels were thrown down with him." (Revelation 12:9).

o "...Your adversary the devil *prowls around* like a roaring lion, seeking something to devour." (1Peter 5:8)

Well, that Revelation 12:8 phrase, "... neither was their place found any more in heaven," along with the next verses after that which reveal events about the END of this world, make that war impossible... to have happened at Lucifer's original fall.

This is why the Daniel 12:1 verse speaks of Archangel Michael standing up (i.e., making a stand by the war in Heaven), and the time of trouble ("great tribulation") immediately follows that.

Thus we cannot pull a single verse out that Revelation 12:7-17 flow of events and not include all those verses in context about the end of this world.

 

[Nancy]

You are being Biblically illiterate, because you have listened to MEN instead of our Heavenly Father in His Word.

As of this very moment, ONLY Satan and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish in the future "lake of fire" at the end of Revelation 20. NO flesh-born man has been judged and sentenced to perish in that "lake of fire" yet...

THIS following Bible Scripture is WHEN flesh-born wicked are judged to perish and cast into the future "lake of fire"...

Rev 20:11-15
11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him That sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

The above is what is written, and all Christians should be following it, as that was given by Lord Jesus Christ to His Church through His servant John.

And it looks like you might also be confused... about the difference between the abode of hell and the lake of fire. The abode of hell will go into... the lake of fire, IF you bother to read that Bible Scripture.

Oh yeah, looks like I need to include the following Scripture too...

2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
KJV

That's Apostle Paul speaking above.

WHEN... do we appear before the judgment seat of Christ, folks? Or when do the wicked appear before the judgment seat of Christ and get cast into the "lake of fire"?

Not to mention:
Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

 

[William Barton]

Well, that Revelation 12:8 phrase, "... neither was their place found any more in heaven," along with the next verses after that which reveal events about the END of this world, make that war impossible... to have happened at Lucifer's original fall.

This is why the Daniel 12:1 verse speaks of Archangel Michael standing up (i.e., making a stand by the war in Heaven), and the time of trouble ("great tribulation") immediately follows that.

Thus we cannot pull a single verse out that Revelation 12:7-17 flow of events and not include all those verses in context about the end of this world.

Davy noted:
>war in heaven not possible>

Satan is currently granted occasional visits to heaven, see Job 1:6-22, Revelation 12:7-17. Hence in the future if he decides not to leave after a visit, he will be cast down.

 

[Davy]

Davy noted:
>war in heaven not possible>

WHERE in the world did you get that above idea??? I never said any such thing.

The Revelation 12:7 verse makes it plain... that there WILL BE a war in Heaven between Archangel Michael and his angels, vs. Satan and his angels, and it will cause Satan and his angels to be cast OUT OF THAT HEAVENLY DIMENSION, down to this earth, in PLAIN SIGHT. He is coming IN DISGUISE to play MESSIAH in Jerusalem, and the deceived will believe it!

 

[Brakelite]

WHERE in the world did you get that above idea??? I never said any such thing.

The Revelation 12:7 verse makes it plain... that there WILL BE a war in Heaven between Archangel Michael and his angels, vs. Satan and his angels, and it will cause Satan and his angels to be cast OUT OF THAT HEAVENLY DIMENSION, down to this earth, in PLAIN SIGHT. He is coming IN DISGUISE to play MESSIAH in Jerusalem, and the deceived will believe it!

Your view as summarised above is why I sarcastically suggested

Satan and one third of the entire angelic population still roaming to and fro before the Creator of the universe Whom they incited Israel to murder, as well as the loyal angels remaining, unmolested and left to their own devices to continue to abuse, accuse, insult, abuse and wage relentless war and vindictive hatred against all in heaven. Yeah right. You have no idea what you are talking about. You have even less idea concerning the character and purposes of God. What's more, you stubbornly refuse to listen to those who do.

Are you seriously thinking this through?

 

[William Barton]

o There was a "war" in heaven long ago, in which Satan and his angels were cast down to earth: "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer" (Isaiah 24:12)

o The fallen angles all currently dwell among us (Job 1:7).

o Guardian angels protect us from Satan and his angels (Acts 12:8).

o Satan and his angels dwell among us (rather than in heaven) because they were cast down.

o Satan was cast down before Jesus was born (Ezekiel 28:22-18).

 

[William Barton]

o Satan and the angels that follow him originally dwelt in heaven (Ezekiel 28:14).

o They rebelled and were cast to earth (Ezekiel 28:26, Job 2:2).

o Angels that remained faithful to God protect believers (Matthew 18:10).

o Angels are incredibly powerful. In 2Kings 19:35-37 a single angel kills 185,000 Assyrian soldiers overnight--so Guardian angels for believers are a good thing.

 

[Davy]

Your view as summarised above is why I sarcastically suggested

Are you seriously thinking this through?

You obviously have an anti-Semitic problem.

I on the other hand, am not anti-Semitic.

I recognize and believe what Apostle Paul said in Romans 11 that God put spiritual 'blindness' ("spirit of slumber") upon the majority of Jews so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles, and that when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, God will remove that "spirit of slumber" He put upon them, and they will believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ-Messiah.

 

[Davy]

o They all currently dwell among us (Job 1:7).

o Guardian angels protect us from Satan and his angels (Acts 12:8).

YOU SAID THE BELOW STATEMENTS, AND YOU LIED, in your post below!

______________________________________________________________________

o There was a "war" in heaven long ago, in which Satan and his angels were cast down to earth: "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer" (Isaiah 24:12)

o They all currently dwell among us (Job 1:7).
o Guardian angels protect us from Satan and his angels (Acts 12:8).
__________________________________________________________________________

I NEVER made that statement in red above! Instead, this Thread shows I said JUST THE OPPOSITE. YOU PURPOSEFULLY 'CHANGED'... WHAT IS SAID!

THUS YOU HAVE BEEN REPORTED!

 

[Davy]

WHERE in the world did you get that above idea??? I never said any such thing.

The Revelation 12:7 verse makes it plain... that there WILL BE a war in Heaven between Archangel Michael and his angels, vs. Satan and his angels, and it will cause Satan and his angels to be cast OUT OF THAT HEAVENLY DIMENSION, down to this earth, in PLAIN SIGHT. He is coming IN DISGUISE to play MESSIAH in Jerusalem, and the deceived will believe it!

HERE is where Barton did His DIRTY DEED.

Notice how he CHANGED my words in his fake post #106.

And just in case English is not Baron's first language, the verb "WILL BE" that I said means FUTURE TENSE!

 

[Davy]

o Satan and the angels that follow him originally dwelt in heaven (Ezekiel 28:14).

o They rebelled and were cast to earth (Ezekiel 28:26, Job 2:2).

o Angels that remained faithful to God protect believers (Matthew 18:10).

o Angels are incredibly powerful. In 2Kings 19:35-37 a single angel kills 185,000 Assyrian soldiers overnight--so Guardian angels for believers are a good thing.

Satan and his angels ARE STILL DWELLING IN HEAVEN TODAY.

You obviously don't believe what The Bible says...

2 Peter 2:4
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
KJV

The word for "hell" above is Greek tartaroo (NT:5020), and means the deepest abyss of Hades. That is still... where Satan's angels that rebelled with him are to this day, locked in chains in the Abyss of hell, which is in the HEAVENLY DIMENSION.

Simple COMMON SENSE rules on this too, because when Rev.12:7-10 declares the woe of Satan and his angels being cast out of Heaven down to this earth, it shows that 'war' takes place where??? in the earth?? No.... in the clouds around the earth? No.... in HEAVEN, meaning the Heavenly dimension, which is where Hades is located also, with the Abyss being another term to describe the "bottomless pit" that Satan will ascend from. Satan does not 'literally' ascend up from the earth, for that is an expression of the low state God assigned him to. But that is just another way God's Word expresses the FUTURE TIME when the war in Heaven will happen at the END of this world, with Satan and his angels being cast out of Heaven, down to this earth in plain sight.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Satan and his angels ARE STILL DWELLING IN HEAVEN TODAY.

You obviously don't believe what The Bible says...

2 Peter 2:4
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
KJV

The word for "hell" above is Greek tartaroo (NT:5020), and means the deepest abyss of Hades. That is still... where Satan's angels that rebelled with him are to this day, locked in chains in the Abyss of hell, which is in the HEAVENLY DIMENSION.

LOL. Heaven and hell/Hades are contrasted in scripture as being separate places. Hades is not "in the heavenly dimension". You are trying to make hell part of heaven. Ridiculous!

 

[Davy]

LOL. Heaven and hell/Hades are contrasted in scripture as being separate places. Hades is not "in the heavenly dimension". You are trying to make hell part of heaven. Ridiculous!

You don't know what you're talking about, as the word Hades actually comes from pagan Greek tradition about the 'underworld'. The Apostles used it because of their using the Greek language of the people.

Whereas, when "hell" in the manuscripts is 'geena', like in Matthew 5:29, it is about the "lake of fire" event that destroys hell at the "second death" event per the end of Revelation 20. And I don't need to show a bunch of Greek language characters to make that clearly understood.

Rev 20:14-15
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

Furthermore, in Luke 16, Lord Jesus gave an example of what the Heavenly Paradise looks like with Lazarus and the rich man which both died, with Lazarus going to one side to Abraham's bosom, and the rich man to the other side in HELL (Greek haides), both IN THE HEAVENLY DIMENSION with a fixed great gulf between them.

This means the word "hell" (in the KJV) is actually translated from 2 different words in the Greek, depending on the context of the verse. It is either Greek haides, the abode of the wicked IN THE HEAVENLY DIMENSION, or the "lake of fire" event of the future that will destroy death and the abode of hell (haides).

 

[William Barton]

Davy explained:
>which is where Hades is located>
>Hades...heavenly dimension>

IMO:

o Satan and his angels currently roam the earth (1Peter 5:8).
o I agree that heaven is another dimension.
o Revelation 20:1-3 shows Satan thrown into a pit (after the return of Jesus), and I presume the pit is within the earth.
o "Hell" (2Peter 2:4) is Greek ταρταροσας (tartarosas) = "the nether worlds' (Oxford Greek Dictionary).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You don't know what you're talking about,

Says the guy who rarely knows what he's talking about. Your words are 100% meaningless to me.

as the word Hades actually comes from pagan Greek tradition about the 'underworld'. The Apostles used it because of their using the Greek language of the people.

According to Jesus in Luke 16:19-31, Hades is the place where dead unbelievers go (their souls and spirits) when they die. Believers go to paradise/the third heaven. Hades is not part of heaven. Why can't you even understand the simplest of things? Ask God for wisdom so that you stop believing nonsense (James 1:5-7).

Whereas, when "hell" in the manuscripts is 'geena', like in Matthew 5:29, it is about the "lake of fire" event that destroys hell at the "second death" event per the end of Revelation 20. And I don't need to show a bunch of Greek language characters to make that clearly understood.

I know the difference between Hades/hell and the lake of fire. It says that Hade/hell will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14).

Rev 20:14-15
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

Furthermore, in Luke 16, Lord Jesus gave an example of what the Heavenly Paradise looks like with Lazarus and the rich man which both died, with Lazarus going to one side to Abraham's bosom, and the rich man to the other side in HELL (Greek haides), both IN THE HEAVENLY DIMENSION with a fixed great gulf between them.

Paradise is the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2-4) and is completely separate from Hades/hell. I don't believe anyone was in paradise/the third heaven yet until Jesus died, so I believe He took those who were in what He called Abraham's bosom to paradise/the third heaven when He died. You are conflating the spiritual dimension with the heavenly dimension. Hades/hell is not in the heavenly dimension. It is separated.

This means the word "hell" (in the KJV) is actually translated from 2 different words in the Greek, depending on the context of the verse. It is either Greek haides, the abode of the wicked IN THE HEAVENLY DIMENSION, or the "lake of fire" event of the future that will destroy death and the abode of hell (haides).

You are mistaken, but no one can get through to you, so I'm not wasting any more time on this. Just continue to be stubborn and continue to believe in falsehood if you insist.

 

[Davy]

o Revelation 20:1-3 shows Satan throw into a pit, which I presume is within the earth ("pit").

That's an old primitive Jewish tradition that hell is inside the earth. Didn't you know the earth is HOLLOW?

If you believe that, then you'll believe the ignorance that hell is inside the earth.

 

[William Barton]

IMO Satan and his angels were cast down to earth some time ago, hence they dwell among us:

o Ezekiel 28:16
o 1Peter 5:8

 

[William Barton]

IMO Satan and his angels were cast down to earth some time ago, hence they dwell among us:

o Ezekiel 28:16
o 1Peter 5:8

Satan and his angels ARE STILL DWELLING IN HEAVEN TODAY.

You obviously don't believe what The Bible says...

2 Peter 2:4
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
KJV

The word for "hell" above is Greek tartaroo (NT:5020), and means the deepest abyss of Hades. That is still... where Satan's angels that rebelled with him are to this day, locked in chains in the Abyss of hell, which is in the HEAVENLY DIMENSION.

Simple COMMON SENSE rules on this too, because when Rev.12:7-10 declares the woe of Satan and his angels being cast out of Heaven down to this earth, it shows that 'war' takes place where??? in the earth?? No.... in the clouds around the earth? No.... in HEAVEN, meaning the Heavenly dimension, which is where Hades is located also, with the Abyss being another term to describe the "bottomless pit" that Satan will ascend from. Satan does not 'literally' ascend up from the earth, for that is an expression of the low state God assigned him to. But that is just another way God's Word expresses the FUTURE TIME when the war in Heaven will happen at the END of this world, with Satan and his angels being cast out of Heaven, down to this earth in plain sight.

Davy noted:

>Satan and his angels still dwelling in heaven>

"I threw you down, Guardian cherub>
(Ezekiel 28:14)

"your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion"
(1Peter 5:8)

 

[William Barton]

Well, that Revelation 12:8 phrase, "... neither was their place found any more in heaven," along with the next verses after that which reveal events about the END of this world, make that war impossible... to have happened at Lucifer's original fall.

This is why the Daniel 12:1 verse speaks of Archangel Michael standing up (i.e., making a stand by the war in Heaven), and the time of trouble ("great tribulation") immediately follows that.

Thus we cannot pull a single verse out that Revelation 12:7-17 flow of events and not include all those verses in context about the end of this world.

Satan is granted occasional visits to heaven (Job 1:6). Revelation 12:8 indicates that the visits stop at the future time of Revelation 12:8.

 

[Davy]

BRETHREN IN CHRIST JESUS:

The doctrine that Barton shows is a fleshy doctrine of men, and not aligned with what God's Word actually teaches as written. As I have said before, many have difficultly in understanding about the two separate dimensions of existence written of in God's Word, the Heavenly dimension where God and the angels dwell, and this earthly dimension where we dwell, which includes the whole material universe.

Even with the phrase "celestial bodies" by Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:40, those similar to Barton dwelling on materialism wrongly treat that word "celestial" to point to God's Abode in Heaven, when in reality that word simply means the stars of the sky which is part of our earthly dimension. (Ever hear of celestial navigation? It means navigation by the stars. It is still a skill taught today to aircraft navigators, ocean going navigators, etc. If your electronics goes out, you break out the sextant and take a reading by the stars.)

There's a load of false traditions of men that come of that materialistic fleshy type thinking. One is the idea of 'soul sleep', i.e., that when our flesh dies, our soul dies with our flesh, and both must be resurrected together. No, that's a primitive Jewish tradition showing lack of understanding the two different dimensions, the Heavenly and this earthly one. Jesus said to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but NOT our soul (Matt.10:28). That means He showed our soul does NOT die with our flesh at flesh death, but that our soul continues on to God, living in the spirit like Peter showed in 1 Peter 4. Apostle Paul revealed this also in 2 Corinthians 5.

In 1 Corinthians 15:49-50, Apostle Paul said that as we have borne the "image of the earthy", meaning a flesh body outward likeness, we shall also bear the "image of the heavenly", meaning a Heavenly spirit body like the angels. Paul also said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

So I don't know how much more plain God's written Word on this matter can get. If one's mind is stuck in this temporary flesh existence, then it's like being in a brain freeze.

Another false idea that primitive superstitious fleshy minds think regarding Heaven is that God's Abode is actually up in the sky around the earth somewhere, i.e., opposite of the idea that Satan's abode of hell is inside this earth. God's Word teaches no such idea, even though His Word does use 'expressions' that seem... like God dwells in the clouds.

That other dimension, the Heavenly dimension, is difficult to explain, because even though it has many parallels to our earthly dimension, it still is not the same. One dimension is made up of material matter (earthly), the other is made up of Spirit (Heavenly). Apostle John said "God is a Spirit" (John 4). That means He has no material matter substance. Nothing in the Heavenly dimension has a material matter substance. That's why it cannot be compared with earthly matter. It also explains how material matter came into existence second, that the dimension of Spirit always existed (Hebrews 11:3).

Even the concept of angels having literal wings on their backs is a myth. Per Hebrews 13:2, it tells us to be hospitable to strangers, because some have entertained angels unaware. Don't you think that if angels had literal wings on their backs it would be easy to recognize? Artists in old paintings added wings when representing angels in the painting to make sure one understood that was an angel. How else would one know in the painting?