Who, can Not Sin and Why?

[ProDeo]

No, I have NOT ever said that.

Okay.

But even the subject line assumes that -> Who, can Not Sin and Why?

And you posted :
1 John 3-9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [KJV}

And elsewhere you said :
I identified specific…
The forgiven, the Saved, the quickened… recipients…. Being they who Can Not Sin.

And -
Does the Word of God Teach, men born again of Gods SEED, can Not Sin? Yes.

Like you I consider myself forgiven, Saved, quickened… born of God, a new creature, a changed life, serving the Lord, it does not has made me sinless.

 

[Jack]

Do you not understand that the person you see ( who may indeed sin) is not the unseen new man who does not sin?

Sounds like a confession!

 

[ProDeo]

Do you not understand that the person you see ( who may indeed sin) is not the unseen new man who does not sin?

The main aspect of being born again (receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit) is that you do not want to sin any longer. It's a miracle.

When the apostle John says : and he cannot sin, because he is born of God he must have meant that : do not want to sin.

 

[ScottA]

The main aspect of being born again (receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit) is that you do not want to sin any longer. It's a miracle.

When the apostle John says : and he cannot sin, because he is born of God he must have meant that : do not want to sin.

You are speculating.

And no, "the main aspect of being born again", is being born of the spirit of God as a completely new creation literally having a different body, rather than born of flesh and blood as a son or daughter of Satan.

 

[Lambano]

That's a very interesting verse. Paul was a very honest dude!

That's one of the reasons I admire and respect him.

 

[Lambano]

Do you not understand that the person you see ( who may indeed sin) is not the unseen new man who does not sin?

In other words, "That wasn't ME you saw in bed with that woman; that was my old man." I ain't buying it.

The funny thing is, I can see scriptural support for this:

17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. (Romans 7:17-20)

Here is where I disagree with Paul. I do not accept the disassociation of the Self from one's fleshly body. That is either the influence of the Gnostic world-view of all material things being evil and thus irrelevant to the soul, evidence of a Dissociative Identity Disorder mental illness, or gross irresponsibility in not taking ownership of one's actions.

 

[Lambano]

In other words, "That wasn't ME you saw in bed with that woman; that was my old man." I ain't buying it.

My wife wouldn't buy that story either, and she's pretty good with firearms.

 

[ScottA]

In other words, "That wasn't ME you saw in bed with that woman; that was my old man." I ain't buying it.

The funny thing is, I can see scriptural support for this:

17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. (Romans 7:17-20)

Here is where I disagree with Paul. I do not accept the disassociation of the Self from one's fleshly body. That is either the influence of the Gnostic world-view of all material things being evil and thus irrelevant to the soul, evidence of a Dissociative Identity Disorder mental illness, or gross irresponsibility in not taking ownership of one's actions.

It's okay not to like what that sounds like or that some may use it as a license to keep sinning--no one who is truly saved, and God likes it either. No one. But that does not change the scriptural truth of the matter, which God alone decides is legit or not. In a manner of speaking, Paul even said, the body that is saved is not that body of flesh and blood (1 Corinthians 15:37).

The problem of disagreement on this matter, is that some do not account for the fact that the new born spiritual body is a completely different body--even if we are stuck with the old body of flesh and blood for the rest of our days in this world. That spirit body is biblically defined as part of God *the body of Christ, God in God); and to accuse that body of God of sin is the actual abomination. To the contrary, we should all thank Him for making it so--that His plan is for us to lay that body of sin down one day, as Christ also did, and be raised up. Meanwhile, no one who has that spirit of God in them wants to keep sinning any more than they want the world still be subject to both good and evil. No one.

 

[Lambano]

The problem of disagreement on this matter, is that some do not account for the fact that the new born spiritual body is a completely different body--even if we are stuck with it for our remaining days in this world. That spirit body is biblically defined as part of God *the body of Christ, God in God); and to accuse that body of God of sin is the actual abomination

Stop right there. What's this "spirit body"? Our resurrection bodies (described in 1 Corinthians 15) do not yet exist. The phrase, "The Body of Christ" is a figure of speech.

 

[OneGospel]

Stop right there. What's this "spirit body"? Our resurrection bodies (described in 1 Corinthians 15) do not yet exist. The phrase, "The Body of Christ" is a figure of speech.

From the searches I did only Paul uses that direct phrase.
Evidently it refers to only those who are saved under his Apostleship & Ministry

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

"body of Christ" primary search results are listed below along with dictionary aides, FAQs, and LexiConc.

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[Lambano]

From the searches I did only Paul uses that direct phrase.
Evidently it refers to only those who are saved under his Apostleship & Ministry

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

"body of Christ" primary search results are listed below along with dictionary aides, FAQs, and LexiConc.

www.blueletterbible.org

The Romans verse is a reference to Christ's physical body in the Atonement, and the 1 Corinthians 10 verse also refers to the physical body of Christ as symbolized in the Eucharist.

The 1 Corinthians 12 verse is part of a larger metaphor starting in verse 12 comparing the roles of individuals in the church to the proper functioning of the human body. The Ephesians reference is also about the roles of individuals; see immediately preceding verse.

I don't see anything there that would restrict the metaphor to Paul's Gentile ministry, or that would preclude Jewish followers of Christ, do you?

 

[OneGospel]

I think the Romans and eucharist verses were referring to the physical body of Christ.

Learning new stuff all the time, I was able to screenshot for you.
How do these verses describe the physical body of Christ ?

 

[Jack]

That's one of the reasons I admire and respect him.

Galatians 1:11-12
11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Lambano]

Learning new stuff all the time, I was able to screenshot for you.
How do these verses describe the physical body of Christ ?

Only the first two.

Consistent with Paul's views expressed in Galatians and elsewhere in Romans, Romans 7:4 asserts that Christ's crucifixion releases us from the obligations of Torah. The Atonement was accomplished by the death of Christ's physical body. There should be no argument about that.

The 1 Corinthians 10:16 verse is about the Eucharist. The symbols of the cup and the bread represent Christ's physical blood and physical body given for us. That should be pretty clear too.

The 1 Corinthians 12:27 verse is part of a larger metaphor starting at verse 12 that compares the roles of individuals in the Church to the proper functioning of the human body. In this case, the "body of Christ" is a metaphor for the Church.

The Ephesians 4:12 verse is immediately preceded by a statement about the roles of individuals, so this one is similar to the 1 Corinthians 12 reference above.

In both cases where "the Body of Christ" refers to the collection of individuals that make up the Church, I see nothing that would restrict membership to Paul's ministry, or that would preclude the Jewish followers of Christ. Do you?

 

[Jack]

Only the first two.

Consistent with Paul's views expressed in Galatians and elsewhere in Romans, Romans 7:4 asserts that Christ's crucifixion releases us from the obligations of Torah. The Atonement was accomplished by the death of Christ's physical body. There should be no argument about that.

The 1 Corinthians 10:16 verse is about the Eucharist. The symbols of the cup and the bread represent Christ's physical blood and physical body given for us. That should be pretty clear too.

The 1 Corinthians 12:27 verse is part of a larger metaphor starting at verse 12 that compares the roles of individuals in the Church to the proper functioning of the human body. In this case, the "body of Christ" is a metaphor for the Church.

The Ephesians 4:12 verse is immediately preceded by a statement about the roles of individuals, so this one is similar to the 1 Corinthians 12 reference above.

In both cases where "the Body of Christ" refers to the collection of individuals that make up the Church, I see nothing that would restrict membership to Paul's ministry, or that would preclude the Jewish followers of Christ. Do you?

Many Jews believed in Jesus before He was executed. I'm just a Gentile who is elated to have my sins washed away by His Blood. There are saved Gentiles and saved Jews. I welcome everyone! I'm sure you do too. It hurts me to see so many 'Christians' spew hate for Jews.

 

[OneGospel]

Many Jews believed in Jesus before He was executed. I'm just a Gentile who is elated to have my sins washed away by His Blood. There are saved Gentiles and saved Jews. I welcome everyone! I'm sure you do too. It hurts me to see so many 'Christians' spew hate for Jews.

Unless I am mistaken, sins washed away currently applies worldwide to anyone anywhere Gal 3v28 which was different to times past.

 

[ScottA]

Stop right there. What's this "spirit body"? Our resurrection bodies (described in 1 Corinthians 15) do not yet exist. The phrase, "The Body of Christ" is a figure of speech.

If we are born again of the spirit of God, we are a new creation having a spiritual uncorrupt body--which is the first resurrection, that the old body of flesh and blood and sin does not take part in. John referred to the born again, saying they "cannot sin"--because they are "blessed and holy" (Revelation 20:6) having "been born of God" (1 John 3:9).

What Jesus said of being born again, and what Paul said of putting on uncorruption, are the same body born of the spirit of God--that new creation. Both Jesus and Paul said much, or perhaps little, but only eluded to who and what Paul referred to as "we who are alive and remain"--meaning, alive in God, but remaining in flesh and blood and in the world.

That body of born again, are the resurrected body of Christ...which comes to the saved, "but each one in his own order" or time, in this way: "Take eat, this is My body", and "Follow Me." Not a figure of speech, but just what is written, "precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little."

 

[OneGospel]

If we are born again of the spirit of God, we are a new creation having a spiritual uncorrupt body--which is the first resurrection, that the old body of flesh and blood and sin does not take part in. John referred to the born again, saying they "cannot sin"--because they are "blessed and holy" (Revelation 20:6) having "been born of God" (1 John 3:9).

What Jesus said of being born again, and what Paul said of putting on uncorruption, are the same body born of the spirit of God--that new creation. Both Jesus and Paul said much, or perhaps little, but only eluded to who and what Paul referred to as "we who are alive and remain"--meaning, alive in God, but remaining in flesh and blood and in the world.

That body of born again, are the resurrected body of Christ...which comes to the saved, "but each one in his own order" or time, in this way: "Take eat, this is My body", and "Follow Me." Not a figure of speech, but just what is written, "precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little."

Jesus & Paul, Jesus taught Paul, Paul exclusively teaches us now has recently started to make sense to me since there appears to be a difference in that the teachings of Paul today applies to everyone everywhere yet prior to and early on in Paul's Ministry he went to the gentiles and Peter to the circumcision

 

[ProDeo]

You are speculating.

I don't.

Many translations have 1Joh 5:18 different than the KJV

1Joh 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him. -- ESV

Else John would contradict himself, examples :

Just 2 verses before, thus context.
1Joh 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.

1Joh 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Joh 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Joh 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[ScottA]

he must have meant

You prefacing your post comment with these words above, would indeed appear to be "speculation" on your part.

Many translations have 1Joh 5:18 different than the KJV

1Joh 5:18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him. -- ESV

Else John would contradict himself, examples :

Just 2 verses before, thus context.
1Joh 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.

1Joh 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Joh 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Joh 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I understand your logic, but that is not "rightly dividing the word of truth."

John addressed both the unsaved and the saved (born again), so there is no contradiction except that the flesh is contrary to the Spirit. Thus, the old man of flesh and blood is "rightly" told one thing and spoken of differently than the new born again man born of the spirit of God--God who sins not.

But do understand, it is this great difference (the body of flesh and sin, and that of the Spirit) that makes for our salvation--by that difference we are saved. Therefore, the two are "rightly divided" and referred to separately, even while we walk both in the flesh and in the spirit. Which can indeed be confusing and easily mixed together as one doctrine...except that we have been told to "rightly divide" the Word to know what is actually the "truth."