what I learned about oneness pentecostalism

[Brakelite]

For it pleased the Father that in Him (the Son) all the fullness (of God) should dwell,

This cannot apply to the incarnation. If Jesus had appeared in all the fullness of the Godhead, everyone in His presence would have died instantly, being overcome by the glory. You have seen what happened to men when confronted by angels... Daniel and John for example... Forced to their knees and struck numb and speechless, even to the point of worship. How much more the Son of God if at the incarnation, He had at that time all the fullness of the Godhead? Would anyone have survived to claim they knew Him?
To me, the Son was begotten in eternity, born of the Father before time and matter, through Whom the Father created all things. Not known by the name Jesus, some believing His pre-incarnation name was Michael. The Father, with agreement from His Son, (yes, the Father and Son were equal but like in all father/son relationships, the father has rank and the son submits to the father's authority.) So, equal except in rank. The Son was sent by the Father to redeem man. If He had not clothed His divinity with humanity, humbling Himself and laying aside the glory that rightly belonged to Him, we would never have survived.
Begotten from the dead, yes, had to be, He was really truly dead. There was no part of Him that still lived somewhere in the Trinity in heaven.

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

You cannot justify your view on this, so you resort to ignorance and the ignore button. Just proves your really stuck in this religious ideology you have. So typical too.

Your claim to loving Paul is false, you do not agree with Paul calling the Son the Christ before His incarnation. Maybe you will calm down later and think about that.

Bye, impenitent heretic.

For anybody else who might have been following along, while preaching in Nazareth, Jesus said:

Luk 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Jesus is the Christ or the anointed one because God the Father anointed him during the time of his incarnation. It is that simple.

As to the heretic's repeated false claims that I do not believe the writings of the Apostle Paul, he is only further displaying his own ignorance while attempting to slander me. As I noted in a previous post here, I could rightly say that my father was born and raised in Cleveland, Ohio. However, and this is a BIG HOWEVER, he was NOT my father at that time. Years later, he met my mother, they married, and had children. When I was born, the father and son relationship between my father and me truly began. It is the same exact principle in Paul's writings. Seeing how we now know Jesus as the Christ or anointed one, Paul referred to him by that title regularly throughout his writings. This does not dismiss THE FACT that Jesus was not anointed with the Holy Ghost until the time of his incarnation (Acts 10:38).

 

[Scott Downey]

The preincarnate Christ is not heresy, it is standard Church Christian teaching.

Topical Bible: The Pre-Incarnate Christ

This who say it is a heresy, promoted by heretics, ought to look in the mirror.

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

When did Jesus become the Messiah?

When did the human Jesus become "The Messiah" or "The Christ"? An examination of a much-misunderstood title.

wordexplain.com

 

[Scott Downey]

When did Jesus become the Messiah?

When did the human Jesus become "The Messiah" or "The Christ"? An examination of a much-misunderstood title.

wordexplain.com

Your issue remains, you deny that scripture also calls the Son the Christ in the wilderness wandering of the OT Jews.
The problem is your definition of 'Christ'

Christ is the Rock, our God.
1 Samuel 2:2
“No one is holy like the Lord, For there is none besides You, Nor is there any rock like our God.

1 Corinthians 10:4
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

Romans 9:33
As it is written: “Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

1 Peter 2:8
7 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who [a]are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
8 and

“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

Matthew 16:18
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

 

[Scott Downey]

The Son is the Christ, who is God. He was in the beginning with God.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Christ the Son, the Word of the Father, was made flesh
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Christ was the only begotten of the Father when made flesh as in brought into the world. They beheld Christ, begotten of God, when they saw Christ. Jesus said this too about Himself,
.
John 14:8-9
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

So Christ is God in the flesh.

Hebrews 1
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:

“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?
6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”


Hebrews 1:8
But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God (The Son), Your God (The Father), has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Hebrews 1
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:

“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?

6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
God saying 'Today', implies a change, a beginning.
And the Son has no beginning and no ending and no genealogy.
The only thing we see is God gave Christ a body when incarnated, and we can see touch and feel that.
There is a change then, when God brought the Son into the world, this was a beginning of something new.

Hebrews 10
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hebrews 7
For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,” 3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually.

14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning [c]priesthood. 15 And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest 16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life. 17 For [d]He testifies:

“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”

“The Lord has sworn
And will not relent,
‘You are a priest [f]forever
According to the order of Melchizedek’

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And the Son who has been perfected forever

Hebrews 7
22 by so much more Jesus has become a [g]surety of a better covenant.

23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. 24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save [h]to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, [i]harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.

 

[The Learner]

thanks all

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

thanks all

No problem. Glad to be able to help out!

 

[soberxp]

I believe Jesus is God and the Trinity.

oneness pentecostalism teaches that Jesus was only on God's mind and as such no pre-existence. Logically he is not God. However, they claim he is God the Father. They say, the fullness of the godhead being the Father is in him. When we are born again, we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit., but we are not God. Jesus having the Father in him does not make him the Father too. They are illogical.

What do you know about oneness pentecostalism ??? I want your input and corrections, please Daniel

God made man in his own image, the man is Jesus Christ.

 

[Brakelite]

Just came across this, never noticed it before in thinking about the pre- incarnate Son of God. I'm certain others have however, anyway, I think John the Baptist is of pretty good authority in speaking of the one he came to introduce to the world...
“31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. 32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. 33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. 34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. ”
John 3:31-36 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

 

[The Learner]

I have seen poor logic by them. What examples do you all have, please.

 

[Always]

We believe the Bible to be the inspired and only infallible written Word of God.

We believe that there is only One God, eternally existent in three persons: God the Father,
God the Son and, God the Holy Spirit.

We believe in the blessed Hope, which is the rapture of the Church of God, which is in
Christ, at His return.

We believe that the only means of being cleansed from sin is through repentance and faith
in the precious Blood of Jesus Christ. Romans 10:9-10

We believe that regeneration by the Holy Ghost is absolutely essential for personal
salvation.

We believe that the redemptive work of Christ on the Cross provides healing for the
human body in answer to believing prayer.

We believe that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, according to Acts 2:4, is given to believers
who ask for it.

We believe in the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit, by whose indwelling the Christian is
enabled to live a holy and separated life in the present world.

 

[Brakelite]

I have seen poor logic by them. What examples do you all have, please.

“1 After these things Jesus went over the sea of Galilee, which is the sea of Tiberias. 25 And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither? 26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. ”
John 6:1, 25-40 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

It is so conclusive that Jesus, the Son of God, pre-existed His incarnation. The Bible isn't silent on the matter, Jesus Himself clearly stating the case categorically.

“41 The Jews, the oneness folk of that day, then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. (They heard Him correctly, why can't people today?) 42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? (Today's oneness folk are the same as these unbelieving Jews. They can only see a human Jesus, rejecting His deity and divinity. The JWs are no better. They may recognise His pre-existence, but deny His Divinity. )

43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48 I am that bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. ”
John 6:41-51 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

 

[Always]

I never heard the pentecostals say that

Is that one one of their websites er something?

We do not believe that

 

[Dan Clarkston]

AI Overview

AI Overviews are void of the leading of the Holy Spirit and as such as demonic relying on the darkened wisdom of mankind.

Before the Incarnation, the Son of God did not exist

Jesus is the Word of God that took upon Himself flesh

John 1:1,2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.

 

[The Learner]

AI Overviews are void of the leading of the Holy Spirit and as such as demonic relying on the darkened wisdom of mankind.




Jesus is the Word of God that took upon Himself flesh

John 1:1,2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.

I pray on them before googling my statement, questions

 

[PS95]

I pray on them before googling my statement, questions

hey Lerner-
I had no idea that Oneness Pentecostal was so similar to the Christadelphians - they also say Jesus had no pre-existence and was just a plan in God's mind. They also deny that the devil exists. Did you say Oneness doesn't either?

 

[seer]

AI Overviews are void of the leading of the Holy Spirit and as such as demonic relying on the darkened wisdom of mankind.




Jesus is the Word of God that took upon Himself flesh

John 1:1,2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.

Jon 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Col 1
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I pray on them before googling my statement, questions

Pray all you want, the Lord still isn't going to bless the darkened wisdom of fallen mankind.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Yeah, Jesus (God's Word) is the One making all things.

But God's Word is not something that was created as God's Word is God - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.