The Law (Moses Law) is : NOT Made for Christians... #2

[Behold]

Reader,

When you try to connect Moses 613 Laws and 10 Commandments to God's "GIFT of Salvation"" who is JESUS on THE CROSS.....then you are literally denying God's "Gift of Salvation".

The only connection that Moses 613 Laws and the 10 Commandments have to "Gods GIFT OF SAVATION", is that MOSES 613 Laws and 10 Commandments show you your guilty sinning before God, so that you then turn to Jesus on THE Cross for Deliverance and Salvation.

See, there is Moses's 613 Law s and 10 Commandments...., and there is God's Grace.
"The Law came by MOSES.... and GRACE (God's Grace) came by JESUS The Christ".
These are not the same......they are OPPOSITES.
So, the Christian is not to chase "the 613 laws of Moses".....because the Law (Moses law) can only DEFINE YOU as "guilty before God"... as Paul teaches in Romans 3:21-28.

In fact, if you were taking my classes, then on day one, first day of class, then Romans 3: 21-28, is on the AGENDA.... the main one.
We will park there for awhile, until all have understood why the Law is a curse and how Jesus's Shed BLOOD is the only CURE, Deliverance and FREEDOM From the Law.

So, let me explain some of this for the Readers.. and let me also tell you that if you are going to learn some bible, then Learning Romans 3:21-28, is a MUST DO.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.) The law, which is MOSES Law... (613 of them) and ...= when we try to keep it , energizes what Paul has defined for us as our "old man of sin".

Thd way to understand "the Law".....is simply ......A.) what are you trying to do by self effort to save yourself or keep yourself saved, is the Law unto you.
So, be sure you understand this as that is to understand what it means to be "under the law".


So, the curse of the law, is that it causes our "old man" to want to sin.
Therefore we must be made free from this "curse of the law", or it will comtinue to enflame our "old man" and this causes a revival of sinful desire within the Christian.

2.) Now, if we want freedom from sin, we have to be made free from the law, as otherwise the Law continues to inflame our "Old man", while it tries to defines us as a sinner .

Christ ON THE CROSS.... is the only eternal solution to this issue, that Paul defined in Romans 7 as : "that which i hate i do, and that which i want to do, i can't"......as that is the power of the LAW to cause this situation.
Paul is showing us what happens when we try to keep the law in our self righteous effort to be accepted by God = TOTAL Continual FAIL.

3.) Paul then teaches......."Who shall deliver me from this "......and then He explains the answer...= that by being "In Christ"... there is "NOW no condemnation"""".... And that means that because 1.) ""Christ is the END OF THE LAW, for Righteousness""... and 2.) """Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE of the LAW"""......then we are made free from the Law that is the "power of sin"., and that is how you are "made free" from sin.

Now Readers,....let me show you the issue that most Chrisitans have , and that is, they are trying to keep the law believing that God will accept them and keep them if they do that.. However, the Law empowers their wrongful desires... because that is what it does.. to them........and to everyone.
So, the more a Christian tries to be good so that God will accept them, they believe... (((which is really just putting themselves under the Law))).....then the more the power of sin is THE LAW... = which causes them to want to sin MORE.

See that vicious cycle?

4.) Most Christians are trying to keep what Moses has supplied as "the Law" and "10 Commandments" , which is specifically designed to "make the world guilty before God'..

See their problem?

5.) And then the Devil comes along and teaches them that God's Grace that is their safe haven, that is their deliverence, is really just a "licence to sin".
So, once they believe that LIE, then there is no way they are going to be able to receive any revelations about being "made free from sin"......So, they end up lifelong trapped by the Law, under condemnation, trying to stay saved, and that is their broken faith, and their broken Christianity.
They are still saved.....but they are completely gone.....they are stuck in that vicious cycle and there is no hope found there, only condemnation and bitter striving, and total self righteousness.

 

[Behold]

Reader.........some of you are stuck under the law, and that is why you can't stop wanting to sin.

This is why Christianity seems like a burden and a hardship and a JOYLESS TOTAL Frustration, to so many believers.
This is why many just give up and stop going to church and stop reading their bible.. and worst of all this is the main reason that a Cult is able to take your mind and ruin your faith as well as your Christianity.
And the more you try to keep what you believe keeps you saved... (which is to put yourself under the Law) .... then the more you will suffer the condemnation of failure to do it.

LISTEN..........no one can keep the law of MOSES.......and that is why its HERE.
It was given by Moses first to the Jews, and also now to all the human race to show you and me and us all that we are SINNERS< unable to keep it,.......... unable to keep it.........unable to keep it.

Reader, the LAW requires from you, RIGHTEOUSNESS< and you dont have any of yourself because "all have sinned".... And you are STUCK IN THAT Situation, until you come to JESUS.........and that is what the Law is created for... that its trying to get you to DO, so that you can be forgiven all your sin, and given eternal life, and become "made free from the Law"......."IN Christ"....."born again".

See it yet?

The law is a CURSE........its not a Blessing.
The law defines you as a sinner, and that is a CURSE unto EVERYONE.........and Jesus "came to redeem us from the CURSE OF THE LAW"..

How?

"Jesus is the END OF THE LAW.........for RIGHTEOUSNESS"........He is our Righteousness, and when we are born again, we are born again "IN CHRIST".........."made free from the Law"..

See it yet?

And yes, i know that most have been trying to perform your particular "laws" for as long as you have been a Christian... as you try to perform for God hoping He'll save you and keep you.........I understand that when you are taught that this is actually the opposite of real Christianity... The total opposite of Faith in Christ.....that it can be a bit of a mental "wow". as you begin to get the revelation that Paul is Teaching you in my Thread, as all this that im showing you is Paul's Doctrine.......But the good news is....once you see it,.. once you become enlightened by Paul's Teaching... then you will begin to realize God's Grace and Jesus's Blood Atonement and what this really means for you......and its ALL SO GOOD.. !!
But you can't exist there, as God would have it, until you get out of the Law and TOTALLY into GOD's Grace.

 

[Bob]

Thank you for posting.

Although this is mainstream Evangelism, it stops short of describing the behavioral characteristics Jesus expects of us.

Consider, for example, Commandments 6 - 10: the Do Nots. The essence of these Commandments is ”do not intentionally harm your neighbor” (in fact, don’t even think about it); or, as Jesus would say, strive to be gentle and peaceful toward your neighbor.

Etc.

In other words, only by a grounded understanding of the Law and the Prophets can we truly understand the two great Commandments: Love God and Love Your Neighbor.

Once we ”put on Christ” we may be free of sin, but never free of the temptation to sin, or inadvertently hurting others. Understanding the great Commandments, which are positive statements about relationships, is what Jesus intended for us throughout life’s journey.

Peace.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Reader,

When you try to connect the Law to God's Salvation, then you are literally denying God's "Gift of Salvation".

The only connection that Moses 613 Laws and the 10 Commandments have to Salvation, is that the Law and Commandments show you your guilty sinning before God, so that you then turn to Jesus on THE Cross for Deliverance and Salvation.

See, there is Moses's Law, and there is God's Grace.
These are not the same......they are OPPOSITES.
So, the Christian is not to chase "the law".....because the Law (Moses law) can only DEFINE YOU as "guilty before God"... as Paul teaches in Romans 3:21-28.

In fact, if you were taking my classes, then on day one, first day of class, then Romans 3: 21-28, is on the AGENDA.... the main one.
We will park there for awhile, until all have understood why the Law is a curse and how Jesus's Shed BLOOD is the only CURE, Deliverance and FREEDOM From the Law.

So, let me explain some of this for the Readers.. and let me also tell you that if you are going to learn some bible, then Learning Romans 3:21-28, is a MUST DO.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.) The law, which is MOSES Law... (613 of them) and ...= when we try to keep it , energizes what Paul has defined for us as our "old man of sin".

Thd way to understand "the Law".....is simply ......A.) what are you trying to do by self effort to save yourself or keep yourself saved, is the Law unto you.
So, be sure you understand this as that is to understand what it means to be "under the law".


So, the curse of the law, is that it causes our "old man" to want to sin.
Therefore we must be made free from this "curse of the law", or it will comtinue to enflame our "old man" and this causes a revival of sinful desire within the Christian.

2.) Now, if we want freedom from sin, we have to be made free from the law, as otherwise the Law continues to inflame our "Old man", while it tries to defines us as a sinner .

Christ ON THE CROSS.... is the only eternal solution to this issue, that Paul defined in Romans 7 as : "that which i hate i do, and that which i want to do, i can't"......as that is the power of the LAW to cause this situation.
Paul is showing us what happens when we try to keep the law in our self righteous effort to be accepted by God = TOTAL Continual FAIL.

3.) Paul then teaches......."Who shall deliver me from this "......and then He explains the answer...= that by being "In Christ"... there is "NOW no condemnation"""".... And that means that because ""Christ is the END OF THE LAW, for Righteousness""... and"""Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE of the LAW"""......then we are made free from the Law that is the "power of sin"., and that is how you are "made free" from sin.

Now Readers,....let me show you the issue that most Chrisitans have , and that is, they are trying to keep the law believing that God will accept them and keep them if they do that.. However, the Law empowers their wrongful desires... because that is what it does.. to them........and to everyone.
So, the more a Christian tries to be good so that God will accept them, they believe... (((which is really just putting themselves under the Law))).....then the more the power of sin is THE LAW... = which causes them to want to sin MORE.

See that vicious cycle?

4.) Most Christians are trying to keep what Moses has supplied as "the Law" and "10 Commandments" , which is specifically designed to "make the world guilty before God'..

See their problem?

5.) And then the Devil comes along and teaches them that God's Grace that is their safe haven, that is their deliverence, is really just a "licence to sin".
So, once they believe that LIE, then there is no way they are going to be able to receive any revelations about being "made free from sin"......So, they end up lifelong trapped by the Law, under condemnation, trying to stay saved, and that is their broken faith, and their broken Christianity.
They are still saved.....but they are completely gone.....they are stuck in that vicious cycle and there is no hope found there, only condemnation and bitter striving, and total self righteousness.

Your concern about people trying to earn salvation by their own effort is right. No one saves himself. Salvation is a gift from God. But the idea that God’s commandments have no place in salvation, or that they are the opposite of grace, does not agree with the clear words of Jesus.

Jesus Himself joins these things together, not separates them.

He says in John 14:15 (ASV)
“If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.”

He does not present obedience as the enemy of grace. He presents it as the natural response to Him. Love and obedience walk together.

He also says in Matthew 7:21 (ASV)
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

Here there is little room for interpretation. Calling Him Lord is not enough. Doing the will of God matters for entering the kingdom.

And He makes it even clearer in Matthew 19:16–17 (ASV)
“And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him… if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments.”

If the commandments had no connection to life, this would have been the moment to say so. Instead, Jesus points directly to them.

Now about the idea that the law is only a curse and must be left behind completely. Listen to Jesus again:

Matthew 5:17–19 (ASV)
“Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law…
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven…”

That is direct. He did not say the law is the opposite of grace. He warned against breaking it and teaching others to do so.

Also, Jesus never taught that grace removes the call to obedience. Instead, He warned about losing what was given if we do not continue.

John 15:10 (ASV)
“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.”

Abiding in Him is not automatic while ignoring His words. It is tied to keeping them.

And He gives a serious warning in Luke 6:46 (ASV)
“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”

This goes straight to the heart of the matter. Faith that does not obey is not the faith Jesus taught.

Yes, the law shows sin. But Jesus shows more than that. He shows the path of life, and He calls us to walk in it.

Grace is not against obedience. Grace is what helps a person begin again, be forgiven, and then walk in what is right through the Spirit. As He said in John 5:14 (ASV) after healing a man,
“Sin no more, lest a worse thing befall thee.”

Jesus never taught that God’s commandments are the enemy. He taught that they are the way of life for those who follow Him.

 

[Behold]

Thank you for posting.

Although this is mainstream Evangelism, it stops short of describing the behavioral characteristics Jesus expects of us.

You again are confusing Discipleship, with God's Salvation.

Notice ....

When Jesus said to them....>>"Depart from me".........they were all his Disciples, his Followers.....but they were not born again.

What Jesus :"expects" from a Believer is that they are :

1.) Dependable

2.) Available.

3.) Honest

He is looking for that..........whereas the carnal believer is all tied up worrying about trying to be perfect, and filled with an obsession to come to a forum like this one and talk about WORKS and WORKS and Moses Law, and more of it.

God is not looking for your perfection......He's looking for your FAITH, as its """Faith that pleases God""".....not works of self effort.

See, God is not looking at out outward behavior, like people will do.......and that is because God SEES THE HEART in you.
He knows your MOTIVES.......and that is where the rubber meets the road.

Consider, for example, Commandments 6 - 10: the Do Nots. The essence of these Commandments is ”do not intentionally harm your neighbor” (in fact, don’t even think about it); or, as Jesus would say, strive to be gentle and peaceful toward your neighbor.

If you look deeper then you'll see that "LOVE fullfills all the Commandments".

And why is that?

Its because when you LOVE someone, or when you truly LOVE........then you are not going to try to harm them by sinning against them.

Etc.

In other words, only by a grounded understanding of the Law and the Prophets can we truly understand the two great Commandments: Love God and Love Your Neighbor.

@Bob,

There is no verse in a real Bible that says.....>>"if we truly understand the law and prophets then we truly understand the 2 Great commandments".

You might try reading all of the 613 Moses LAW before you try that post..........is my advice.

Its interesting to realize that all the hard core "lawkeeping" religious types, could not name 40 of Moses Law out of the 613, that they claim are SO important to a Christian.

So, in this we see that their foolishness is only surmounted by their carnality and spiritual-theological ignorance.

Once we ”put on Christ” we may be free of sin,

If what you posted is true, then why do born again believers all struggle with it in their mind?

Also, its not a question of can it happen.........can you become "made free from sin"....or not.
Its a fact of God's Grace that it has happened according to God's perspective........but the believer has to understand what is going on... They have to get God's perspective as their revelation and real faith..... They have to "work out their salvaiton"...by understanding it correctly-perfectly, and once that revelation is achieved by them, then they have "put on the Helmet of Salvation"., and Paul teaches that they have become....>"as many as be perfect".

See, Salvation has happned "by faith" unto a born again Christian, because it was completed by Christ 2000 yrs ago on THE Cross.....and given by God to all believers as the eternal "GIFT of Salvaiton".... but the revelation of what it is that has happened to THEM, has to be gained. And for most believers, this never happens because they are stuck in "law" and "self effort". They are spiritually and theologically....."stuck in reverse".
They eventually end up a : Hebrews 6:1, with broken faith.......trying to keep themselves saved as they continue to keep on talking about MOSES LAW and Works over and over and over.

but never free of the temptation to sin,

Sure you can be made free from Temptation....... and that happens like this..

"God will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able to bear"... .so, in this we see God's help and God's power on the behalf of a Believer.

"""Not being tempted with more then you can bear,""" means that the Temptation will cease, which is freedom.

Now, will the Devil and the world system ever stop trying to get you to feel tempted?
Of course not.......so, you have to be smart and on guard, and "not be of the world"..... and thereby not allow yourself to be caught up in all the offerings of sinful pleasure, as they are everywhere.
Just keep watching Cable TV for example, and even the commercials offer you some TEMPTATION......many times, and all day and all night.

A Christian should understand that being tempted to sin, is not the same as sinning.
The NT says that Jesus was tempted in all ways.......yet without sin.

 

[Bob]

Thank you for the detailed reply.

The parable of the Good Samaritan is one example of love in action: sharing and caring for a neighbor. (See also, Matthew 25: 34-36.) Being gentle and peaceful is another. And if I love God, I will cheerfully love my neighbors. Without love in action, my faith is only theoretical.

LoveYeshua offered a master analysis of your other objections.

Professing Jesus as savior is essential for a Christian’s salvation, and he will then be motivated to cheerfully demonstrate loving his neighbors.

Peace.

 

[Behold]

LoveYeshua offered a master analysis of your other objections.

To a legalist, im sure that what LoveYeshua writes about keeping MOSES law and how this is so very important.......would seem correct to the person who does not understand God's Grace at all.

The reality is.... that the Idea of trying to keep Moses Law as your idea of a Salvation requirement, and as your FAITH..... when in fact the sole purpose of Moses Law is to define you as a sinner, who is damned before God.... is "kinda crazy".
I can say that ive met a lot of self righteous theological pretenders in my many years in ministry, and many of them are found on Forums, all screeching about "works and law, and Romans 7, and OSAS"....

So, for all here who want to exist without revelation knowledge, or any spiritual insight, and all you want to do is confess sin and never grow UP in God's Grace, then just find someone like Loveyeshua or Episkapos, or PS95, and half a dozen more here on This forum, and fill up your head with their Cross Rejecting Legalism.
Help yourself reader if that is your reason to be on the forum., and they are happy you are following them around.

The finalal analysis, is.... we find all "christian" Forums filled with self saving Legalist who are all trying to stay saved by their own self effort and Moses Law, who will no doubt enjoy what Loveyeshua or similar Grace rejecting Religious type will post..... and what they dont understand is that The Cross of Christ as well as Paul's GOSPEL = completely rejects what LoveYeshua is teaching.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Reader.........some of you are stuck under the law, and that is why you can't stop wanting to sin.

This is why Christianity seems like a burden and a hardship and a JOYLESS TOTAL Frustration, to so many believers.
This is why many just give up and stop going to church and stop reading their bible.. and worst of all this is the main reason that a Cult is able to take your mind and ruin your faith as well as your Christianity.
And the more you try to keep what you believe keeps you saved... (which is to put yourself under the Law) .... then the more you will suffer the condemnation of failure to do it.

LISTEN..........no one can keep the law of MOSES.......and that is why its HERE.
It was given by Moses first to the Jews, and also now to all the human race to show you and me and us all that we are SINNERS< unable to keep it,.......... unable to keep it.........unable to keep it.

Reader, the LAW requires from you, RIGHTEOUSNESS< and you dont have any of yourself because "all have sinned".... And you are STUCK IN THAT Situation, until you come to JESUS.........and that is what the Law is created for... that its trying to get you to DO, so that you can be forgiven all your sin, and given eternal life, and become "made free from the Law"......."IN Christ"....."born again".

See it yet?

The law is a CURSE........its not a Blessing.
The law defines you as a sinner, and that is a CURSE unto EVERYONE.........and Jesus "came to redeem us from the CURSE OF THE LAW"..

How?

"Jesus is the END OF THE LAW.........for RIGHTEOUSNESS"........He is our Righteousness, and when we are born again, we are born again "IN CHRIST".........."made free from the Law"..

See it yet?

And yes, i know that most have been trying to perform your particular "laws" for as long as you have been a Christian... as you try to perform for God hoping He'll save you and keep you.........I understand that when you are taught that this is actually the opposite of real Christianity... The total opposite of Faith in Christ.....that it can be a bit of a mental "wow". as you begin to get the revelation that Paul is Teaching you in my Thread, as all this that im showing you is Paul's Doctrine.......But the good news is....once you see it,.. once you become enlightened by Paul's Teaching... then you will begin to realize God's Grace and Jesus's Blood Atonement and what this really means for you......and its ALL SO GOOD.. !!
But you can't exist there, as God would have it, until you get out of the Law and TOTALLY into GOD's Grace.

God did not give His commandments to trap us, but to guide us. At the center of everything is love. This is what Jesus made clear.

Matthew 22:37–40 (ASV)
“Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets.”

Here we see it plainly. The whole law stands on love. It is not separate from love. It flows from it.

Jesus also showed that love is not just a feeling, but something we live:

John 14:15 (ASV)
“If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.”

So the commandments are not against love. They are the path of love. When we walk in them, we walk in love.

And again:

John 15:10 (ASV)
“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.”

To remain in His love, we keep His commandments. This is not a burden, and certainly not a curse but a way to stay close to Him.

God gave His law because He cares for us. He wants to protect us from harm and lead us into life.

Deuteronomy 6:24 (ASV)
“And Jehovah commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear Jehovah our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive…”

This shows His heart. The commandments were given “for our good always.” They guard life.

The law is also called freedom, not bondage:

Psalm 119:45 (ASV)
“And I shall walk at liberty; For I have sought thy precepts.”

So the commandments do not chain us. They free us from sin, from harm, and from the confusion of the world. They give clear boundaries, like a safe path through a dark place like our world today.

In a simple way, we can see it like this:
Love is the heart, The Commandments are the shape that love takes in daily life. And walking in them brings freedom, not fear not bondage. It is sin that keeps un in bondage. When you love God and your neighbour, you fulfill the law.

God’s law is not a curse for those who walk with Him. It is a gift given in love, so that we may live, walk safely, and remain in His love.

 

[LoveYeshua]

To a legalist, im sure that what LoveYeshua writes about keeping MOSES law and how this is so very important.......would seem correct to the person who does not understand God's Grace at all.
So, while the Legalist who is trying to stay saved by self effort will no doubt enjoy what Loveyeshua writes.....what they dont understand is that The Cross of Christ as well as Paul's Doctrine completely rejects what LoveYeshua is teaching.

Behold I am not a legalist I simply follow the instructions Christ gave us;

"If you Love me keep My Commandments", simple to understand. Gods grace I do understand we all live because of it.

I do indeed Understand the Cross, His sacrifice I understand it well, but it does not give us a licence to sin.

please answer this question: How do you explain what Christ said ( IN RED) ;

There is a moment where a man comes to Jesus with a sincere question. He wants life, real life that does not end. Jesus answers him in a way that is simple, clear, and cannot be softened.

Matthew 19:16–19 (ASV)
“And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
And he said unto him… if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments.
He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.”

Jesus does not point him to an idea or a theory. He points him to a way of life. If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

The man answers:

Matthew 19:20 (ASV)
“The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet?”

Outwardly, he had done well. But Jesus looks deeper, into the heart.

Matthew 19:21–22 (ASV)
“Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions.”

Here the truth is revealed. The man kept many commandments on the outside, but something greater ruled inside him. His riches held his heart.

Jesus had already taught:

Matthew 6:24 (ASV)
“No man can serve two masters… Ye cannot serve God and mammon.”

The first commandment is to love God above all. The second is to love your neighbor. When Jesus tells him to give to the poor and follow Him, He is not adding a new law. He is exposing where the man is breaking the greatest ones.

He loved his riches more than God, because he would not leave them to follow Him.
He loved his riches more than his neighbour, because he would not share with those in need.

So even if he kept some commandments, he was failing at the heart of them.

This is why he walked away sorrowful. Not because Jesus was harsh, but because the truth touched the place he would not surrender.

Jesus’ words remain strong and clear. To enter into life, keep the commandments. But not only with actions that can be seen. They must be kept from the heart, where love for God is above all, and love for others flows from it.

The lesson is simple and searching. A person can appear obedient, yet still be bound inside. But when love for God becomes first, everything else finds its place. Then the commandments are no longer heavy. They become the path of life, and the way that leads us to follow Him fully.

NOTE that forgot to add:
I do not write about the law of Moses these Laws were for another time most cannot be followed today or have become obsolete.

However the Ten commandments are written By God directly on tables of stone and placed in the Ark of the Covenant, the Ten Commandments are those Jesus was Teaching and magnified during His Ministry and asked us to keep!

The Ten Commandments are the Covenant as Jeremiah and Paul explained they went from letters written in stone to being written in our hearts.

 

[Rita]

I think I see a difference between the Ten Commandments and all the other laws, the latter I perhaps do see as part of the old way. The Ten Commandments however I see as being benchmarks to how we should strive to live and are therefore very relevant. Keeping the Ten Commandments will not save us but will help us to live at peace with each other. They have become the foundation of our laws. We get it wrong , so I agree that they help us to see the need for grace and forgiveness.

 

[Behold]

But the idea that God’s commandments have no place in salvation,

Moses Law and the 10 Commandments, that came from MOSES, were only given to = define a sinner as a sinner. So this have nothing to do with HOW God SAVES a sinner for the last 2000 yrs.
It has everything to do with causing a sinner to realize themselves and turn to Christ on The Cross for SALVATION.

Also, you keep posteing "Gods commandments".......so, this is the 10 Commandments, but these are a part of MOSES LAW, and they can't save you......they can only REVEAL YOU as a SINNER..........so that you would turn to Christ for God's SALVATION who is Jesus on The Cross.

Moses Law and 10 Commandments NOT designed to save you, as you seem to believe, as they are only created to show you your sin.
Moses Law and the 10 Commandments are designed to REVEAL YOU as a SINNER, before Holy God.
So, you dont keep any of this to try to be saved or stay saved @LoveYeshua .
So, can you understand that what shows you your sin, is not capable of SAVING YOU?

There is NO SALVATION found in Moses LAW and 10 Commandments.
Salvation is only Found on THE Cross of Christ and that is why JESUS is given the TITLE of "SAVIOR"., and that is why John 14:6 exists in the NT.

And a religious fakir then teaches....

""""well Behold.... after you are saved by JESUS, then you go back to Moses Law and the 10 Commandments" to try to stay saved, or to complete your Salvation"""".

See that Reader? THat is how a Heretic "SEES"... God's Salvation.
Some of these carnal types will even tell you that the reason God saved you, is so you can go back to Moses Law and try to keep it.

Jesus Himself joins these things together, not separates them.

He says in John 14:15 (ASV)
“If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.”

The Lord Jesus, during His 3.5 yrs of Ministry to the JEWS ONLY.....JEWS ONLY....JEWS ONLY>... didnt tell the JEWS to keep His commandments so that they might be SAVED.
He told them to keep His words so that they could become His "disciple"...... and that is not the same thing as a Born again Christian.

Listen..... God's "gift of Salvation" is John 14:6.... solely based on Jesus DYING on THE CROSS... PERIOD... = THE END..
So, until HE DID, there was NO SALVATiON OFFERED to anyone as it was not possible to offer it until Jesus's BLOOD was shed on THE CROSS.
Reader, This means that when you find Jesus talking to JEWS...= before The CROSS, He's not talking to them about Salvation as the NEW Covenant.
He's talking to JEWs under the OLD Covenant so His Teaching will reflect the Old Covenent......and the born again are not under the Old Covenant.
Why dont you know this @LoveYeshua ... ..because if you did, you'd stop posting endlessly about your works and your obedience and Moses Law ........ as none of that has anything to do with The Cross of Christ where God's Salvation began and was completed., 2000 yrs ago.

Try to understand that Salvation started NOT with Jesus's Ministry to the JEWS....... but God's Salvation Started with His SON's DEATH on The Cross that happened AFTER Jesus's minstry to the "house of Israel" had ended.

He does not present obedience as the enemy of grace. He presents it as the natural response to Him. Love and obedience walk together.

Love and Obedience, are self effort.
Self Effort cannot Save anyone, and God does not accept it to forgive you, nor to give you "the GIFT of Salvation".
Reader see that word "GIFT"?.......This is the FREE Gift of Salvation, and you dont work for a Gift.
Heretics all disagree........as they teach that you must be obedient and chase Moses Law, after you are saved...

Listen,

A person can be a follower of Jesus......Jew or non-jew.......and they can live a life of obedience to Him, and they can try to keep the Law....and they do this for HIM all their LIFE.. for 90 yrs.
Then they die and go to Hell like a bullet.
So, how can that be, ???????? when they gave their life to Jesus and they worried about keeping the Law and 10 Commandments, that they tried to live for Him every day.
Yet they went to Hell like a bullet..after they died, and they were even water baptized.

So why did they go to hell after they just spent 90 yrs being the best disciple for Christ that the world has ever seen?

A.) Its because Salvaiton is not something that you DO . God's Salvation is JESUS on The Cross.


Now Here is a Truth.
SALVATION, is JESUS on THE CROSS., and @LoveYeshua , when you falsely teach others that their part in God's Salvation is self effort and behavior and obedience and commandment keeping....then you are denying The Cross and you are offending the Grace of God.
So, what you need to do, is stop giving any credit for Salvation to a person's WORKS and EFFORT and Obedience, because when you do that, you are offending The Actual SAVIOR Himself who is the only reason that God will accept you and keep you.

 

[Behold]

He also says in Matthew 7:21 (ASV)
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

You have no idea what the difference is between the Kingdom of Heaven vs the Kingdom of God.

Let me show you just this.........

"""'The KOG is within you"""" Jesus explains.... and the Kingdom of Heaven is NOT......and you dont know this ,yet you pretend that you can teach the Bible.
Its really just amazing, how many people ive met Forums in the last 18 yrs, who are such confused religious people, not knowing even the most basic principle of The Atonement. And because they dont the always end up teaching total LEGALISM.
So what happens to them? They enconter some dark light legalist who is ranting About "obedience and law" is required for Salvation, and this tickles their carnal flesh and suddenly they are following this Heretic around like a drunk puppy.
And this is why Heretics are able to keep them in the spiritual and theological darkness where they exist.

You are definitely a 2 Corn 11:15......without a doubt. @LoveYeshua

Doing the will of God matters for entering the kingdom.

Explain to the Members here what the "will of God is"......... that if they do it, God will save them and keep them saved.

YOU DONT know...... and if you post i'll correct you, and if you dont i'll answer it for you.

And He makes it even clearer in Matthew 19:16–17 (ASV)
“And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him… if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments.”

In your verse given to JEWS under the Old Covenant, as in most of the verses that you keep misusing and misunderstanding....Jesus is again only talking to Jews, under the OT LAW,.....therefore this verse you posted has nothing to do with How a sinner in '2026 is saved.
And you dont know this, @LoveYeshua and hopefully, there are a few here who understand that you are just a very confused religious poster/pretender.

So let me give a few READERs some credit....
Im pretty certain that a few who are reading your "self saving" Theology, have realized that you dont quote PAUL to try to prove your religious nonsense....., and YET its Paul who was sent by Jesus to explain to the CHURCH (Thats the born again)... all about Redemption and Salvation and so much more, including how to walk in the Spirit and deal with the flesh.
@LoveYeshua you constantly use verses given by Jesus to OT Jews under the LAW.... that are not teaching anything about God's Salvation that was accomplished by Jesus on THE CROSS which FREES us from the "ministry OF DEATH"... that is The LAW.

2 Corinthians 3:7-8

@LoveYeshua , you are connecting the "MINISTRY OF DEATH"... that IS the Old Covenan (Moses Law) with The Cross of Christ, as if they are ONE....... and that is Blasphemy., and its also this....... Galatians 1:8

If the commandments had no connection to life, this would have been the moment to say so. Instead, Jesus points directly to them.

Jesus is not offering Salvation to the Young Rich Ruler.
What He offered Him was something that was impossible for Him to do, and Jesus knew it.
What Jesus was doing was correcting His PRIDE,.... as this one is one of those who believes that his WORKs and His BEHAVIOR had earned Him something from God that is can't , and Jesus simply exposed Him.

The Rich Young Ruler is a type of "CAIN"....who tried to bring to God what God will not accept.

And Reader, if you try to bring to God your works and self effort and good deeds, as if they are required by Holy God to accept you, He'll not have it.
So, when you have some Heretic on a Forum.......trying to get you all caught up in your works and your commandment keeping, to try to please God or STAY SAVED......... then you have a much larger issue with God then you realize.

Now about the idea that the law is only a curse and must be left behind completely. Listen to Jesus again:

Matthew 5:17–19 (ASV)
“Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law…
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven…

Again, you are using verses given only to the JEWS...... and Christ words are here dealing with the OLD COVENANT.......not the New one, as Jesus is the New Covenant, and It began when He SHED HIS BLOOD to create the NEW COVENANT @LoveYeshua .
..... You dont seem to grasp that The Cross began a NEW Covenant, and this changed everything.
Like this....

"The LAW came by Moses..............but GRACE (God's Grace) and TRUTH, came by JESUS".

See those?
They are NOT THE SAME COVENANT.

So, you are wrongly applying Old Covenant Jewish LAW, = against the New Covenant that has established God's Grace., like this...

= The born again "are NOT UNDER THE LAW (Moses Law and Old Covenant) but they are UNDER GRACE"..

= :Jesus is the END OF THE LAW... for RIGHTEOUSNESS, for every one who BELIEVES"..

A.) UNDER GRACE is the NEW TESTAMENT, NEW Covenannt, Blood Atonement, that was begun by THE CROSS OF CHRIST, and this was not offered to any OT Old Covenant JEW in any VERSE you keep reposting to try to prove that you literally dont understand any of this, at all.

 

[Behold]

I think I see a difference between the Ten Commandments and all the other laws, the latter I perhaps do see as part of the old way.

Moses initially gave the Jews both the 613 Laws and the 10 Commandments.
So, whe we think of "LAW"..... under the Old Covenant, we are dealing with Moses Law, which includes the 10 Commandments.

But then there is this....

The total (Pauline Doctrine) understanding of "law"... is not just Moses Law including the 10.......but its anything that you believe you have to do, to be saved and stay saved, other then Trust in Christ alone.
So, any of that then becomes : a LAW unto you........

This means that the person has a list of : "if i do this, i stay saved, and if i ever do that, then Im no longer saved".

So we see that this person has shifted from Simple Faith in Christ that God has alreacy accepted to SAVE them, and now they are become a "here is what i have to DO, as my Salvation"... = Legalist.

See that list they have?
That List is denying that Jesus is The Savior, because that self saving List belongs to someone who does not understand that Salvation is not what we do to get it.... or what we do to try to Keep it.

Salvation is : JESUS.
JESUS is Salvation.

And a person says...>>"but shouldnt we try to be good and keep the 10 commandments and try to be like Christ and love our Neighbor"?

Of course........but that is your DISCIPLESHIP........its not your SALVATION.

Our Salvaiton is : JESUS
JESUS is Salvation.

We dont keep ourselves saved, exactly as we didnt save ourselves to begin with.........as GOD is the giver of salvation and the keeper of the redeemed.

Philipians 1:6

Jesus alone is all we are to TRUST as our REAL FAITH....not Moses Law or Water Baptism, or any type of trying to be good enough to deserve Salvation., as all that is LEGALISM. (Self Saving)...= broken Faith.

God's Salvation is : John 14:6......Its JESUS Himself.....HE is Salvation.....and the moment that we get away from this FAITH in Christ and turn to that LIST of "do's and donts'......and that can include keeping commandments, or joining a specific church, or trying to confess sin, to stay saved... or water baptism...
See all that.. self EFFORT ?
That is the person replacing God's Son as their only Salvation with their idea of...."how to stay saved or how to be saved"., = and that is putting yourself "under the Law".

The remedy ???

"Jesus is the END OF THE LAW for Righteousness"... Paul teaches.

"Jesus is the ONE TIME.. ETERNAL Sacrifice for SIN"... Paul teaches........which means......do not look to the Law or Moses or anything you can do to try to be saved or stay saved.....We are to only and always look to CHRIST as our eternal Salvation, because He IS our Eternal Salvation.
There is no other........and Moses would tell us the same thing, if He could.
Thats a fact.
MOSES would tell us..... ""Do not lool to your self effort or my LAWS, to try to go to heaven, or to try to stay saved.
KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE SON..........as HE is your Salvation......>He is The ONLY Salvation.""

JESUS is : Salvation.

Reader Do you have Christ in you, ?? If so then you are SAVED, for eternity.

We are to keep the 10 Commandments, but only as a Lifestyle Boundary.........so that we dont find ourselves in a big problem down here that is caused and created by breaking the 10 Commandments.
However....We are to never try to keep commandments to try to stay saved, because if we do that, then we are trusting in the Commandments instead of fully trusting in Christ.,and that means you have no real faith in Christ......its gone, its broken faith..
And the thing about Salvation is.......partial faith in Christ and partial faith in water baptisme and partial faith in commandments and confessing sin, and trying to be good.......is Not a Faith that God accepts.

And the issue is, on a forum......is you have so many who are this one..

......"WEll, i know that Jesus STARTED my Salvation.......but now i have to go and do all this, and keep all that, and her comes Moses Law... and maybe i should get water baptized for the 3rd time, just to play it safe..."

See the one?

Thats a Heretic (Paul's Term) who does not really Trust in Christ, and yet they are TEACHING a false Gospel and a False SALVATION on a "christian forum"... which means they are selling a Gospel, and its False, and its cursed, = Galatians 1:8........ and all that comes from this is confusion and strife on the Fourm.

The Ten Commandments however I see as being benchmarks to how we should strive to live and are therefore very relevant

Yes.

The only relevance the 10 Commandments have in the Life of a Born Again Chrisitan is they are a needful and necessary Lifestyle Boundary, that keeps us from a lot of hurt and hardship, when we live inside their guidelines.

So, noone is arguing here on my Thread, that the 10 Commandments are not important in the life of EVERYONE.
Listen, I have in my home a beautiful and large Golden Mirror Exhibit of : The 10 Commandments.......its on the Living Room Wall.......yet here i am trying to stop believers from trusting in them, to try to stay saved...
How aBout that......

Reader, The argument here on my Thread..// is that the Heretics want you to keep the 10 Commandments so that you can try to keep yourself saved by doing it., and that is a Gospel, and its FALSE and cursed and so are they.......Galatians 1:8
This means that the Heretic is replacing JESUS's Blood of the New Testament and New Covenant with the 10 Commandments and whatever else they falsely claim is a :"must do" to Stay Saved or a must do to become Saved..

So,....That's the 2000 yr old CLASH between people all claiming to be a "christian" who understand Salvation, vs those who do not........and its can't be resolved until everyone understands that Salvation is not what you DO.....its not a situation where you do things to get it or keep it.
Salvation is JESUS on The Cross...........and if you have Him in you, ("Christ in you THE Hope of Glory).... then you have God's Grace, who is Jesus our Eternal Salvation.

We get it wrong , so I agree that they help us to see the need for grace and forgiveness.

Yes,

Paul teaches in Romans 3 that the entire world becomes guilty before God, because Moses Law and 10 Commandments reveal us all to be sinners.
We then turn to Christ by FAITH for Help........for forgiveness for Salvation........and God delivers it as "The GIFT of Salvaiton".

"Grace throught Faith"
"Justification BY Faith"

And once we are born again, then we exit here, forever. = The born again is """ Not Under The Law, but UNDER (God;s) Grace"" ..

Heretics do not agree and they ruin Christian forum with their confusion they bring.........and that confusion is that they want you to be like them.........OBESSED with Sin and with LAW and Self Effort, as that is THEIR Salvation they TEACH, even tho they pretend they trust in Christ.
And God know they are pretending.
They absolutely do not Trust in Christ alone to get them to Heaven, and that is why they always OBSESS on Law and commandments and obedience and sin, and water baptism.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Moses initially gave the Jews both the 613 Laws and the 10 Commandments.
So, whe we think of "LAW"..... under the Old Covenant, we are dealing with Moses Law, which includes the 10 Commandments.

But then there is this....

The total (Pauline Doctrine) understanding of "law"... is not just Moses Law including the 10.......but its anything that you believe you have to do, to be saved and stay saved, other then Trust in Christ alone.
So, any of that then becomes : a LAW unto you........

“…written with the finger of God.” (Exodus 31:18)

This is direct speech from God to all the people, not through a mediator. The Ten were then placed inside the ark of the Covenant, showing their core position in the covenant (Deuteronomy 10:5).

After this moment, the people could not bear hearing God’s voice directly, and they asked for Moses to stand between them and God. From then on, God continued to speak through Moses:

“I will speak unto thee all the commandment, and the statutes, and the ordinances…” (Deuteronomy 5:31)

This is where the distinction becomes clear:

• The Ten Commandments were spoken directly by God to all Israel
• The rest of the law was given through Moses as mediator
• The Ten were placed inside the ark
• The rest was written in a book and placed beside the ark (Deuteronomy 31:26)

So yes, there is a real structural difference in how they were delivered and how they were placed.

But Scripture still holds them together under one source: God Himself.

The Ten Commandments were given directly and stand at the center. Jesus was teaching them all and said to keep them and showed us how very simply through love

I have told you this multiple times before. I will stop here I have no more time to waste since you wont listen to reason.

you are very confused and confusing for many but that is on your head and not mine. I wrote to you the truth yet you call me a legalist and an heretic for quoting what jesus said about keeping the commandments to enter eternal life.

 

[LoveYeshua]

I think I see a difference between the Ten Commandments and all the other laws, the latter I perhaps do see as part of the old way. The Ten Commandments however I see as being benchmarks to how we should strive to live and are therefore very relevant. Keeping the Ten Commandments will not save us but will help us to live at peace with each other. They have become the foundation of our laws. We get it wrong , so I agree that they help us to see the need for grace and forgiveness.

yes Rita some of the law of Moses are no longer necessary. By his sacrifice on the cross, Jesus fulfilled many and made many of these laws obsolete such as the Levetical temple Laws. and many others. The core of the law is always Love, first to love God and love one another, if we do this we fulfill the laws. when we love we follow them from the heart without thinking they become part of us.

 

[Behold]

“…written with the finger of God.” (Exodus 31:18)

You need to get away from the OT Law & Commandments given by MOSES, and only Teach "CHRIST CRUCIFIED" as God's ONLY Salvation.
And until you do that, you are defined by the NT, as this..

A Heretic according to Paul.... and a Galatians 1:8., and that is a divine curse.

Currently your THREADS AND POSTS.... are defined by Jesus as a DARK LIGHT...Luke 11:35, and by TITUS 3:10, as someone who is to be strictly and continually avoided by other Christians.
That a fact.

So, read those verse as they will be something brand new for you to experience, @LoveYeshua

The Ten Commandments were spoken directly by God to all Israel

Exactly...
The 10 Commandments and all of Moses 613 LAWS were given to OLD TESTAMENT JEWS...
They are not given to the Blood of Christ REDEEMED New Testament CHURCH, that is made up of Born again Christians.
See, we dont need OT Moses LAW, as we have GOD's SON's Redemption, as our SALVATION.

So, How can you not understand that there are NO CHRISITANS found when Jesus was talking to the JEWS.. (the house of Israel) only... during His Ministry?
its because you are a fake teacher, who has no understanding of the NT, or of the Blood of Jesus and what Jesus has finished on the Cross.

You're Theologically CLUELESS, and prideful about it...

You are not a real student of the NT, which is why you have no idea what the blood Atonement has accomplished for ALL BELIEVERS, FOREVER..

So, Start here, and learn from PAUL.......

The Born again... are "NOT UNDER THE LAW , but under (God's) Grace".

and.....>"Christ is the END OF THE LAW....for Righteousness, to/for, everyone who BELIEVES"... (Trusts in Christ for Salvation).

@LoveYeshua .... you literally dont understand this at all, and that is why you keep trying to place the Old Covenant MOSES LAW over the Cross of Christ, and over the New Covenant.... and that false teaching and false Gospel, that is Galatians 1:8, is not going work out for you. @LoveYeshua

 

[Soyeong]

Reader,

When you try to connect the Law to God's Salvation, then you are literally denying God's "Gift of Salvation".

The only connection that Moses 613 Laws and the 10 Commandments have to Salvation, is that the Law and Commandments show you your guilty sinning before God, so that you then turn to Jesus on THE Cross for Deliverance and Salvation.

Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Law of Moses that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it. So the Law of Moses does not just reveal our need for a Savior, but also reveals the way that he is saving us. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to trust to Jesus on the cross for deliverance and salvation is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of Moses.

See, there is Moses's Law, and there is God's Grace.
These are not the same......they are OPPOSITES.
So, the Christian is not to chase "the law".....because the Law (Moses law) can only DEFINE YOU as "guilty before God"... as Paul teaches in Romans 3:21-28.

In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Law of Moses, and he chose the way faith by setting us to obey it, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. So the Law of Moses is not the opposite of God's grace and God was not acting contrary to His grace when He gave it, but rather God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey it.

If you think that the the Law of Moses reveals us what sin is and that we should refrain from doing what God has revealed to be sin is, then you should be encouraging people to choose to obey the Law of Moses.

In fact, if you were taking my classes, then on day one, first day of class, then Romans 3: 21-28, is on the AGENDA.... the main one.
We will park there for awhile, until all have understood why the Law is a curse and how Jesus's Shed BLOOD is the only CURE, Deliverance and FREEDOM From the Law.

The fact that the Law of Moses is a curse for those who refuse to submit to it is not a very good reason to refuse to submit to it. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to free us from the Law of Moses but in order to free us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for dong good works, so the way to believe in the freedom that we have in Christ is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of Moses (Acts 21:20).

So, let me explain some of this for the Readers.. and let me also tell you that if you are going to learn some bible, then Learning Romans 3:21-28, is a MUST DO.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.) The law, which is MOSES Law... (613 of them) and ...= when we try to keep it , energizes what Paul has defined for us as our "old man of sin".

Thd way to understand "the Law".....is simply ......A.) what are you trying to do by self effort to save yourself or keep yourself saved, is the Law unto you.
So, be sure you understand this as that is to understand what it means to be "under the law".

So, the curse of the law, is that it causes our "old man" to want to sin.
Therefore we must be made free from this "curse of the law", or it will comtinue to enflame our "old man" and this causes a revival of sinful desire within the Christian.

The old man of sin is the one that lives in transgression of the Law of Moses, so the way to energize him is by refusing to keep the Law of Moses. In Deuteronomy 28, the Law of Moses is a curse for those who refuse to submit to it. The Law Moses is the good that Paul wanted to do and the law of sin is what was causing him not to do the good that he wanted to do, so we need to be set free from the law of sin in order to be free to obey the Law of Moses, not the other way around.

2.) Now, if we want freedom from sin, we have to be made free from the law, as otherwise the Law continues to inflame our "Old man", while it tries to defines us as a sinner .

Christ ON THE CROSS.... is the only eternal solution to this issue, that Paul defined in Romans 7 as : "that which i hate i do, and that which i want to do, i can't"......as that is the power of the LAW to cause this situation.
Paul is showing us what happens when we try to keep the law in our self righteous effort to be accepted by God = TOTAL Continual FAIL.

It is by the Law of Moses that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so freedom from the Law of Moses would not be freedom from sin, but rather it would be the curse of the freedom to sin. The freedom that we have in Christ is the freedom from sin, not the freedom to sin.

3.) Paul then teaches......."Who shall deliver me from this "......and then He explains the answer...= that by being "In Christ"... there is "NOW no condemnation"""".... And that means that because ""Christ is the END OF THE LAW, for Righteousness""... and"""Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE of the LAW"""......then we are made free from the Law that is the "power of sin"., and that is how you are "made free" from sin.

Now Readers,....let me show you the issue that most Chrisitans have , and that is, they are trying to keep the law believing that God will accept them and keep them if they do that.. However, the Law empowers their wrongful desires... because that is what it does.. to them........and to everyone.
So, the more a Christian tries to be good so that God will accept them, they believe... (((which is really just putting themselves under the Law))).....then the more the power of sin is THE LAW... = which causes them to want to sin MORE.

See that vicious cycle?

In Romans 8:1-7, Paul said that there is now therefore now condemnation for those who are in Christ, that the Law of the Spirit has freed us from the law of sin and death, we have been set free from the law of sin in order to be free to meet the righteous requirement of the Law of Moses, and he contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of Moses. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6), so verses that refer to those who are in Christ like Romans 8:1 are only referring to those who are following Christ's example of walking in obedience to the Law of Moses. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from the Law of Moses but in order to redeem us form all lawlessness. It is the law of sin that is the power of sin that we have been freed from by the Law of the Spirit, not the Law of Moses. The way to be acceptable to God is not by refusing to obey what He has commanded.

4.) Most Christians are trying to keep what Moses has supplied as "the Law" and "10 Commandments" , which is specifically designed to "make the world guilty before God'..

See their problem?

You should be arguing to refrain from doing what makes us guilty before God instead of arguing in favor of continuing to do that.

5.) And then the Devil comes along and teaches them that God's Grace that is their safe haven, that is their deliverence, is really just a "licence to sin".
So, once they believe that LIE, then there is no way they are going to be able to receive any revelations about being "made free from sin"......So, they end up lifelong trapped by the Law, under condemnation, trying to stay saved, and that is their broken faith, and their broken Christianity.
They are still saved.....but they are completely gone.....they are stuck in that vicious cycle and there is no hope found there, only condemnation and bitter striving, and total self righteousness.

You arguing that we have the freedom to do what the Law of Moses reveals to be sin is arguing that we have a license to sin and in favor of being trapped under the law of sin while arguing that we have been made free from sin is arguing that we are set free from being under the law of sin in order to be free to obey the Law of Moses.

 

[Soyeong]

Reader.........some of you are stuck under the law, and that is why you can't stop wanting to sin.

In Psalm 119:142, the Law of Moses is truth and in John 8:31-36, it is the transgression of the Law of Moses that puts us into bondage while the truth sets us free. The reason why someone can't stop wanting to sin is because they are under the law of sin, not the Law of Moses.

This is why Christianity seems like a burden and a hardship and a JOYLESS TOTAL Frustration, to so many believers.
This is why many just give up and stop going to church and stop reading their bible.. and worst of all this is the main reason that a Cult is able to take your mind and ruin your faith as well as your Christianity.
And the more you try to keep what you believe keeps you saved... (which is to put yourself under the Law) .... then the more you will suffer the condemnation of failure to do it.

The Psalms contain an extremely positive view of obeying the Law of Moses, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so you are expressing a view of obeying it that is incompatible with the view that the Psalms are Scripture and the rest of the Bible for that matter.

LISTEN..........no one can keep the law of MOSES.......and that is why its HERE.
It was given by Moses first to the Jews, and also now to all the human race to show you and me and us all that we are SINNERS< unable to keep it,.......... unable to keep it.........unable to keep it.

Nowhere does the Bible say that, but just the opposite. In Romans 10:5-8, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaiming that the Law of Moses is not too difficult for us to keep and that keeping it brings life and a blessing while not keeping it brings death and a curse, so choose life! Moreover, there are many examples in the Bible of people who did keep the Law of Moses, such as with those in Joshua 22:1-3, Luke 1:5-6, Revelation 14:12, and Revelation 22:14.

Reader, the LAW requires from you, RIGHTEOUSNESS< and you dont have any of yourself because "all have sinned".... And you are STUCK IN THAT Situation, until you come to JESUS.........and that is what the Law is created for... that its trying to get you to DO, so that you can be forgiven all your sin, and given eternal life, and become "made free from the Law"......."IN Christ"....."born again".

See it yet?

Nowhere does the Law of Moses require righteousness from us that we don't have and nowhere does it required us to have perfect obedience, but rather the fact that all have sinned means that all need to repent and the fact that we can repent from our sins means that we are not required to have perfect obedience.

The Law of Moses is God's Word (Deuteronomy 5:31-33) and Jesus is God's Word made flesh, so everything that is true about Jesus is also true about the Law of Moses insofar as he is the embodiment of it, which means that it is contradictory to come to God's Word made flesh instead of coming to God's Word.

Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Law of Moses that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so Jesus graciously teaching us to embody the Law of Moses is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not embodying it. So the Law of Moses does not just reveal our sin and our need for a Savior, but also reveals the way that he is saving us.

In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked, in 1 John 3:4-10, those who are not doers of righteous works in obedience to the Law of Moses are not children of God, and in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments of the Law of Moses, so those who refuse to follow Christ's example of walking in obedience to the Law of Moses do not have any grounds to think that they are in Christ, that they are born again or that they have eternal life. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to free us from the Law of Moses but in order to free us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus spent his ministry teaching and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of Moses (Acts 21:20) while the way to reject everything that he is would be by returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from.

The law is a CURSE........its not a Blessing.
The law defines you as a sinner, and that is a CURSE unto EVERYONE.........and Jesus "came to redeem us from the CURSE OF THE LAW"..

How?

The Law of Moses is a blessing for those who obey it and a curse for those who refuse to submit to it
(Deuteronomy 28), so the fact that it is a curse for everyone who refuses to submit to it is not a very good reason to refuse to submit to it. Jesus freed himself from the curse of the Law of Moses by graciously teaching us to obey it.

"Jesus is the END OF THE LAW.........for RIGHTEOUSNESS"........He is our Righteousness, and when we are born again, we are born again "IN CHRIST".........."made free from the Law"..

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Law of Moses, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Law of Moses is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life (John 17:3) and which is His gift of righteousness.

See it yet?

And yes, i know that most have been trying to perform your particular "laws" for as long as you have been a Christian... as you try to perform for God hoping He'll save you and keep you.........I understand that when you are taught that this is actually the opposite of real Christianity... The total opposite of Faith in Christ.....that it can be a bit of a mental "wow". as you begin to get the revelation that Paul is Teaching you in my Thread, as all this that im showing you is Paul's Doctrine.......But the good news is....once you see it,.. once you become enlightened by Paul's Teaching... then you will begin to realize God's Grace and Jesus's Blood Atonement and what this really means for you......and its ALL SO GOOD.. !!
But you can't exist there, as God would have it, until you get out of the Law and TOTALLY into GOD's Grace.

Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example and being a Christian is about being a follower of what he taught, not about refusing to follow what he taught. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Christ are the same as those who kept God's commandments, not those who refused to keep them. In Psalm 119:29, he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Law of Moses, so that is the way to get totally into God's grace.

 

[Soyeong]

I think I see a difference between the Ten Commandments and all the other laws, the latter I perhaps do see as part of the old way. The Ten Commandments however I see as being benchmarks to how we should strive to live and are therefore very relevant. Keeping the Ten Commandments will not save us but will help us to live at peace with each other. They have become the foundation of our laws. We get it wrong , so I agree that they help us to see the need for grace and forgiveness.

The Hebrew word “yada” refers to intimate relationships/knowledge gained by experience, such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God’s way is the way to know (yada) Him and Jesus by having the experience of embodying His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew (yada) Abraham that he would teach his children and those of His household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Law of Moses is to graciously teach us how to experience an intimate relationship with God and Jesus by walking in His way, which is His gift of eternal life.

God's character traits are eternal, so there is a reality of what is true about the way to embody God's character traits that was true about God before He made any covenants with man, which has been revealed through His covenants, and which is eternally true regardless of which covenant someone is under, if any. For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalm 119:142), therefore all of God's righteous laws are also eternal (Psalm 119:160). Being a doer of charity was a way to embody God's righteousness before God made any covenants with man, so that is an eternally valid way to know God regardless of which covenant someone is under and not something that is part of "the old way".

 

[Soyeong]

yes Rita some of the law of Moses are no longer necessary. By his sacrifice on the cross, Jesus fulfilled many and made many of these laws obsolete such as the Levetical temple Laws. and many others. The core of the law is always Love, first to love God and love one another, if we do this we fulfill the laws. when we love we follow them from the heart without thinking they become part of us.

In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it and he warned against relaxing the least part of it, so you should not interpret fulfilling the law as meaning that he abolished or relaxed many parts of it. If you retroactively insert the cross back into Matthew 5 inspire of Jesus making no allusion to it, then you are making the assumption that he had no intention for his audience to understand what he meant by fulfilling it. However, if Jesus did intend for his audience to understand what he meant, then it had meaning that his audience already understood before Jesus said that he came to fulfill it that is not specific to him. "To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known by the law) to be obeyed as it should be (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo), so Jesus proceeded to fulfill the law throughout the rest of Matthew 5 by correcting what the people had heard being said and by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be.

According to Galatians 5:14, anyone who has ever loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire life, so again it refers to correctly obeying it as it should be, moreover, it refers to something that countless people have done and should continue to do in perpetuity, not to something unique that Jesus did through the cross to make parts of it obsolete. In Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, yet you do not consistently interpret that as making it obsolete.