Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

[PinSeeker]

That verse is not talking about the faith that all Christians have.

No, it's talking about the level of faith that some Christians are particularly gifted with.

It's not talking about saving faith.

Saving faith is saving faith. Again, some Christians are particularly gifted in it by the Spirit. The same is true of the other gifts of the Spirit mentioned. Take wisdom, for instance. All Christians have some level of Godly wisdom, but some are particularly gifted by the Spirit in it, who, again, apportions all these gifts ~ in great or small measure, but to only some Christians particularly great, so a particular gifting, which is Paul's point here ~ to each Christian as He wills. Teaching... same thing... most Christians can teach,. But some Christians are gifted teachers... particularly gifted by the Spirit to teach other Christians, so for the common good, as Paul says.

If you disagree, then I have no problem with that. But it is what it is.

Grace and peace to you SI.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, it's talking about the level of faith that some Christians are particularly gifted with.

That is not at all what Paul said. He said to one is given a certain gift, to one is given a different gift, to another is given another different gift and so on. In no way, shape or form did Paul indicate that all Christians have all of the spiritual gifts. To say that the gift of faith is "talking about the level of faith that some Christians are particularly gifted with" is like saying the gift of healing is referring to the level of healing that some Christians are particularly gifted with or like saying the gift of speaking in tongues is referring to the level of speaking in tongues that some Christians are particularly gifted with. You are completely missing the context of 1 Corinthians 12. Each gift that Paul listed, including faith, is only given to some and not all Christians. So, it's not talking about saving faith.

Saving faith is saving faith. Again, some Christians are particularly gifted in it by the Spirit. The same is true of the other gifts of the Spirit mentioned. Take wisdom, for instance. All Christians have some level of Godly wisdom, but some are particularly gifted by the Spirit in it, who, again, apportions all these gifts ~ in great or small measure, but to only some Christians particularly great, so a particular gifting, which is Paul's point here ~ to each Christian as He wills. Teaching... same thing... most Christians can teach,. But some Christians are gifted teachers... particularly gifted by the Spirit to teach other Christians, so for the common good, as Paul says.

So, you think all Christians have the spiritual gifts of healing and miracles and speaking in tongues and interpreting tongues? If so, you would be the only person I know of who believes that. That contradicts what Paul indicated in 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 where he talked about different gifts being given to different people. And it clearly contradicts what he wrote here:

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

Paul clearly indicates here that not all have the spiritual gifts of being apostles, prophets, teachers, workers of miracles, healings, administration, speaking in tongues and interpreting the speaking in tongues. Your answer to all of Paul's questions is "Yes", but the correct answer to all of them is "No". You are claiming that all Christians have all of these spiritual gifts. No, they do not, as Paul made clear. And that includes the spiritual gift of faith, which is not to be confused with saving faith.

If you disagree, then I have no problem with that. But it is what it is.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me, either. What I have a problem with is that I don't feel like you are being completely honest with the text. In order for your interpretation to be correct, it would have to be true that all Christians have all of the spiritual gifts and that is just not what Paul taught at all. He explicitly indicated otherwise.

 

[PinSeeker]

Is there some reason why you didn't show who said this (it was me)?

Only that it was a general comment to the conversation that was going on.

Peter said that the earth itself and the works that are in it will be burned up.

Think about it, SI. Not that you're not, but just not... well... I guess. That conjunction 'and' is important; it shows that No, of those he used the word translated 'dissolved,' and something can be dissolved in the sensed that it is completely purified, and in this case completely rid so sin, and in the words of God in Revelation 21:5, as I said, all things made new.

I'm not saying that Peter indicated that the entire planet earth, even to the core, would be annihilated by fire.

Well good...

No, I believe he was saying the entire surface of the earth itself along with all the man-made things on it will be burned up...

...but this is really just as... <chuckles> ...really, effectively the same thing.

I didn't say He was making new things.

Hmmm, well, in view of what you've said here, yes you did, but on somewhat of a lesser scale than it appeared. <smile> But still, that's the unintended implication.

You know, everybody takes things so personally. That bothers me, really; it shouldn't be.

He will be burning up existing things on the earth (how else will He rid the earth of wicked things?)

Things are not wicked, SI. People are. And they will be sent away. They will be consumed by the judgment of God, Who is a consuming fire.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Think about it, SI. Not that you're not, but just not... well... I guess.

How about just not saying things like this at all? Are you able to refrain from saying things like this or can you just not help yourself?

That conjunction 'and' is important; it shows that No, of those he used the word translated 'dissolved,' and something can be dissolved in the sensed that it is completely purified, and in this case completely rid so sin, and in the words of God in Revelation 21:5, as I said, all things made new.

I don't deny that He will make all things new. Please try to address my beliefs rather than a straw man's beliefs.

...but this is really just as... <chuckles> ...really, effectively the same thing.

No, it is not. That would be like saying the flood destroying the earth's surface is the same thing as saying that the flood annihilated the earth.

Hmmm, well, in view of what you've said here, yes you did, but on somewhat of a lesser scale than it appeared. <smile> But still, that's the unintended implication.

In your mind maybe, but I can't help that. Just go by what I tell you I believe instead of what you think I'm saying. Just ask for clarification if you're not sure. I've talked about my understanding of this many times on this forum, so I'm surprised you weren't already aware of how I see this.

You know, everybody takes things so personally. That bothers me, really; it shouldn't be.

Do you like having your beliefs misrepresented? I'm sure you don't. So, excuse me for not enjoying that.

Things are not wicked, SI. People are. And they will be sent away. They will be consumed by the judgment of God, Who is a consuming fire.

Some things are wicked, PS. So, you don't think anything that is on the earth right now will be burned up? You think all of the strip joints, crack houses, porno magazines, weapons, drugs, alcohol, idols, occult items like tarot cards and ouija boards, books, documents and devices like computers, phones and tablets containing pictures, videos and documents portraying wicked things will all remain on the earth after Jesus comes again? If not, then how do you think they will be removed from the earth?

 

[PinSeeker]

He said to one is given a certain gift, to one is given a different gift, to another is given another different gift and so on. In no way, shape or form did Paul indicate that all Christians have all of the spiritual gifts.

He said only some Christians are particularly gifted by the Spirit in the things he mentioned. In know way, shape, or form did he say or insinuate that other Christians couldn't do those things.

To say that the gift of faith is "talking about the level of faith that some Christians are particularly gifted with" is like saying the gift of healing is referring to the level of healing that some Christians are particularly gifted with or like saying the gift of speaking in tongues is referring to the level of speaking in tongues that some Christians are particularly gifted with.

Okay, sure. But with regard to faith in particular, if we did not have faith, we would not be Christians. The fact is, for some Christians, their faith is stronger than other Christians... they have it in greater measure than others. What this means is that some Christians struggle with their assurance of faith, while others do not. And to those who do struggle in this way, we can say that, hey, if you're worried about whether you have faith or not, or worried if you have been born again or not, then that's a really, really good indication... really proof... that you do have faith and that God has given you new birth in the Spirit. And back to the larger point, since some Christians are gifted in areas that others are not, as such, part of their calling as Christians is to use that gift in a way that benefits other Christians in their walk with God. And the same is true of the other gifts. We all have the Spirit, else we are not Christians. Can we do these things? Yes. Are we necessarily particularly gifted by the Spirit in them? No, and this is why God gave us each other, why we need each other, in our Christian walk.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He said only some Christians are particularly gifted by the Spirit in the things he mentioned. In know way, shape, or form did he say or insinuate that other Christians couldn't do those things.

He clearly indicated that not all Christians have all of the spiritual gifts. Apparently, your answer to each of the questions that Paul asks in the following passages is "Yes". The correct answer is "No".

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the [i]best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

Can you please address what Paul wrote in this passage? Can you not acknowledge that Paul was indicating here that not all Christians in the church have the gift of being an apostles, not all in the church have the gift of prophecy, not all have the gift of teaching, not al have the gift of miracles and so on? Or is your answer to each of his questions "Yes"?

Okay, sure.

What does this response mean? Does it mean that you are agreeing with me that not all have all of the spiritual gifts, which is my point?

But with regard to faith in particular, if we did not have faith, we would not be Christians.

Obviously.

The fact is, for some Christians, their faith is stronger than other Christians... they have it in greater measure than others.

That's irrelevant to what Paul talked about in 1 Corinthians 12. If you insist that he was talking about saving faith in 1 Corinthians 12:9 then that forces you to believe that all Christians have all of the spiritual gifts despite Paul clearly saying otherwise. How about instead acknowledging that 1 Corinthians 12:9 is not talking about saving faith and making an effort to consider what the spiritual gift of faith that not all Christians are given is exactly? I believe it's an extra, supernatural level of faith that is required to do certain things. I think it's listed just before things like the gift of healing and the gift of miracles for a reason.

And as such, part of their calling as Christians is to use that gift in a way that benefits other Christians in their walk with God. And the same is true of the other gifts. We all have the Spirit, else we are not Christians. Can we do these things? Yes. Are we necessarily particularly gifted by the Spirit in them? No, and this is why God gave us each other, why we need each other, in our Christian walk.

We're not talking about what the Holy Spirit could do if He wanted to. We're talking about what He actually does. He does not give every Christian every spiritual gift, including the spiritual gift of faith. That is what Paul clearly indicated. So, can you acknowledge that or are you going to insist that we all somehow have the gift of tongues and healing and so on? It matters not that the Spirit could give us all the spiritual gifts if He wanted to. That is irrelevant to the discussion. Nowhere does scripture teach that the Holy Spirit gives all of us all of the spiritual gifts. And the reason for that is because God wants us to use our particular gifts (some might have one, some might have two or more) to work together. If we all had all of the spiritual gifts, then we would not be inclined to work together and would just be a bunch of lone wolves instead of being the unified body of Christ that works together that God wants us to be.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I don't even know what you are talking about.

Are you trying to tell me that your think that the 6th seal is Armageddon?

Armageddon is the 7th trumpet/ 7th vial.

The coming of Jesus in Rev 14 is the coming in Matthew 24. This occurs at the 6th seal with scriptural proof being the signs of the sun, moon and stars. Why you are unable to see this is beyond....................


Wow. I was right. Now you think that the 6th seal is Armageddon. I think you missed the 7th seal which contain 7 trumpets and 7 vials.

Let's pretend that the 6th seal is the 7th seal. Oh boy.

Lets pretend Rev is in chronological order for a complete misunderstanding.

No, Rev 6, the 6th seal, is looking FORWARD to the white horse coming...AHEM, IN POWER AND GREAT GLORY.

Definately not 2 places where Jesus comes in power and great glory...as you are insisting

 

[rebuilder 454]

Disagree.

Noah WAS in the Ark, 7 days BEFORE the Rain Began.

Gen 7:
[1] And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.


[4] For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.


Glory to God,
Taken

There is another verse in that same chapter where it says the same day he entered the rain started

 

[rebuilder 454]

And yet you cannot produce one single scripture that shows that there is 7 year tribulation. We know that is not a 7 year tribulation because the great tribulation is OVER at the 6th seal..........and the wrath of God is the 7th seal which lasts for one year.


No, No, No.

Jesus returns IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS..............6TH SEAL.

The 7th seal remains.


Why would you make stuff up without using the Word of God? You come up with this without any scriptural support. Whatever you THINK, without one single bit of scriptural support.

In Revelation 19 do you see any angels gathering the elect from heaven and earth.

What I see is Jesus coming for Armageddon with the armies of heaven.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal. Simple. With scriptural support of the sings of the sun, moon and stars.




Where have I said this?


He does hold a bow. He is the false Christ and carries a bow.


You are inventing the concept that Jesus does not come in power and glory at the 6th seal. Even though the Word of God says that immediately after the tribulation the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven. This is exactly what the Word of God says happens at the 6th seal. But you can't accept the written Word of God. You have to go by what you THINK. No scriptural support, just what you think. And deny what is written.


Fig tree has two harvests.
There are two raptures
There is a grain harvest and the fruit harvest.
The Lord Himself comes for the Church and He sends His angles to come for the Jews
Jacob had two brides.
Wake up.


Because we can prove that there is no 7 year tribulation. Tribulation is not the wrath of God.

Like Jesus coming immediately after the tribulation of those days when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven AT THE 6TH SEAL?

QUOTE
"And yet you cannot produce one single scripture that shows that there is 7 year tribulation. We know that is not a 7 year tribulation because the great tribulation is OVER at the 6th seal..........and the wrath of God is the 7th seal which lasts for one year."

For the 10th time
"Daniel"
"One week" hello 7 YEARS.
"In the middle of the week".
AHEM....THAT IS 3.5 YEARS
.
STOP THE NONSENSE.
It is your false timeline claiming the white horse rider is not, and can't be the AC.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Lets pretend Rev is in chronological order for a complete misunderstanding.

No, Rev 6, the 6th seal, is looking FORWARD to the white horse coming...AHEM, IN POWER AND GREAT GLORY.

Definately not 2 places where Jesus comes in power and great glory...as you are insisting

How can you recognize that Revelation 6:12-17 is basically parallel to Revelation 19:11-21, but not recognize that Revelation 14:14-20 is also parallel to those two passages?

 

[rebuilder 454]

And yet you cannot produce one single scripture that shows that there is 7 year tribulation. We know that is not a 7 year tribulation because the great tribulation is OVER at the 6th seal..........and the wrath of God is the 7th seal which lasts for one year.


No, No, No.

Jesus returns IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS..............6TH SEAL.

The 7th seal remains.


Why would you make stuff up without using the Word of God? You come up with this without any scriptural support. Whatever you THINK, without one single bit of scriptural support.

In Revelation 19 do you see any angels gathering the elect from heaven and earth.

What I see is Jesus coming for Armageddon with the armies of heaven.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal. Simple. With scriptural support of the sings of the sun, moon and stars.




Where have I said this?


He does hold a bow. He is the false Christ and carries a bow.


You are inventing the concept that Jesus does not come in power and glory at the 6th seal. Even though the Word of God says that immediately after the tribulation the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven. This is exactly what the Word of God says happens at the 6th seal. But you can't accept the written Word of God. You have to go by what you THINK. No scriptural support, just what you think. And deny what is written.


Fig tree has two harvests.
There are two raptures
There is a grain harvest and the fruit harvest.
The Lord Himself comes for the Church and He sends His angles to come for the Jews
Jacob had two brides.
Wake up.


Because we can prove that there is no 7 year tribulation. Tribulation is not the wrath of God.

Like Jesus coming immediately after the tribulation of those days when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven AT THE 6TH SEAL?

QUOTE
" Because we can prove that there is no 7 year tribulation. Tribulation is not the wrath of God."
"7 yr trib"
"7 yr great tribulation"
Take your pick.
2 doors leading into the same room.
The "WRATH PART of thev"7 yr blah blah"
(Let's rename it something besides the no beainer it is)
So in the middle of the "7 yr blah blah" the AC descecrates the temple.
That is happening around the same time as the rapture "mid blah blah" of the Jews.
No matter what you need to call it, it is a 7 yr period.
What is your most excellent wording for Daniel's 7yr blah blah?

 

[PinSeeker]

He clearly indicated that not all scriptures have all of the sprititual gifts.

Right, I agree, in the sense that not all Christians are particularly gifted in the same way(s).

Apparently, your answer to each of the questions that Paul asks in the following passages is "Yes". The correct answer is "No".

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the [i]best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

Can you please address what Paul wrote in this passage? Can you not acknowledge that Paul was indicating here that not all Christians in the church have the gift of being an apostles, not all in the church have the gift of prophecy, not all have the gift of teaching, not al have the gift of miracles and so on? Or is your answer to each of his questions "Yes"?

I agree, SI, but not in the sense that other Christians "can't do" the same things that Christians who are particularly gifted in these areas, but rather in the sense that those who are not particularly gifted in those areas will not be nearly as effective in doing these things as those who are... and who will be much more effective in one or two of the other things because they are particularly gifted in those other areas.

It's meant in the same manner as, hey, golf is not a gift of the Spirit, of course... <smile> ...but I can play golf, and I'm actually pretty good at it, but I'm not nearly as talented as Jordan Speith or Rory McIlroy or Nelly Korda or Jin Young Ko, who are all obviously very gifted golfers. <smile> I mean come on. We talk all the time about some being very gifted academically, smarter than others, but that does not also mean that those others are not smart. But those who are academically gifted can use those gifts for the benefit of others. Surely you understand that. We can speak in the same manner about the things the Spirit enables us and/or gifts us particularly to do.

And just as a side not, I would exclude apostleship. There are no apostles since Peter's and Paul's day. There were the twelve, and they were instrumental in and used in great ways by the Lord in getting the church started and on its way.

If you insist that he was talking about saving faith in 1 Corinthians 12:9 then that forces you to believe that all Christians have all of the spiritual gifts despite Paul clearly saying otherwise.

See above. You just will not make the distinction... but maybe you will at some point, because there is one to be made... between a) being particularly gifted in something and b) being able to do things, having the ability to do things but not being gifted in those things.

We're talking about what He actually does. He does not give every Christian every spiritual gift, including the spiritual gift of faith.

And I have said many times now that I agree with this and other statements you have made like it, but in the sense that we are not all gifted in any of these areas, including faith, to the same degree. Some are particularly gifted in one or more of those areas, and this is Paul's context. Just regarding faith, SI... I mean, I've pointed this out many times, and you know it very well... Paul says in Ephesians 2:4-8, speaking of all Christians, "God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us... made us alive together with Christ⁠ ~ by grace (we) have been saved... by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God." I know you would agree that we all have this faith. It is true of the other Spirit-given gifts, but for all then it is a matter of degree, and whether or not we are particularly gifted ~ and thus have those gifts of the Spirit ~ or not. This is what Paul clearly indicated. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

Nowhere does scripture teach that the Holy Spirit gives all of us all of the spiritual gifts.

Yet again, yes, in the sense that we are not gifted in the same way(s), yes. And this is by design, according to His will.

And now we're just going back over the same things. Let's stop.

Grace and peace.

 

[rebuilder 454]

And yet you cannot produce one single scripture that shows that there is 7 year tribulation. We know that is not a 7 year tribulation because the great tribulation is OVER at the 6th seal..........and the wrath of God is the 7th seal which lasts for one year.


No, No, No.

Jesus returns IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS..............6TH SEAL.

The 7th seal remains.


Why would you make stuff up without using the Word of God? You come up with this without any scriptural support. Whatever you THINK, without one single bit of scriptural support.

In Revelation 19 do you see any angels gathering the elect from heaven and earth.

What I see is Jesus coming for Armageddon with the armies of heaven.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal. Simple. With scriptural support of the sings of the sun, moon and stars.




Where have I said this?


He does hold a bow. He is the false Christ and carries a bow.


You are inventing the concept that Jesus does not come in power and glory at the 6th seal. Even though the Word of God says that immediately after the tribulation the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven. This is exactly what the Word of God says happens at the 6th seal. But you can't accept the written Word of God. You have to go by what you THINK. No scriptural support, just what you think. And deny what is written.


Fig tree has two harvests.
There are two raptures
There is a grain harvest and the fruit harvest.
The Lord Himself comes for the Church and He sends His angles to come for the Jews
Jacob had two brides.
Wake up.


Because we can prove that there is no 7 year tribulation. Tribulation is not the wrath of God.

Like Jesus coming immediately after the tribulation of those days when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven AT THE 6TH SEAL?

QUOTE
"Like Jesus coming immediately after the tribulation of those days when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven AT THE 6TH SEAL?"

I prefer the non spin version.
Mat 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

You must be trying to spin that passage from Matthew into this Jewish rapture, (in zero "power and great glory"):
Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Mid "7 yr blah blah" gathering of the Jews.

Maybe this will help:
We see Jesus come in power and great glory:
Rev 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

THAT...is "power and great glory."
(The post "7 yr blah blah" return in power.)

....and that alone proves your timeline is off.
You also claim you are the only one that knows your interpretation.

Do you even know the PURPOSE OF THE "7 YR BLAH BLAH"?
THE PURPOSE OF THE RAPTURE?
THE PURPOSE OF THE GATHERING OF THE Jews ?
....OR WHY THE CHURCH IS IN HEAVEN DURING THE "7 YR BLAH BLAH"

Actual true end times doctrine is not a special understanding of one person.

In fact, that is a sure way to error by not being in alignment to the body of Christ.

 

[Taken]

There is another verse in that same chapter where it says the same day he entered the rain started

I think it is describing…
Noah / Family comes ON the Ark.
I would suspect it was hectic, and they in and out settling the Animals on different decks (and stalls, so to speak), with an allotted time of 7 days.

And then God shuts the door.
And heavy rain from above…
And water from in the earth rising up…
( I imaging like a geyser spout)…to quickly cover the Earth with Esther and cause the Ark to rise up to the clouds.

Glory to God,
Taken

Gen 7:
[4] For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
[10] And it came to pass after seven days,that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
[11] In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
[12] And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
[13] In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
[14] They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
[15] And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
[16] And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

 

[The Light]

Lets pretend Rev is in chronological order for a complete misunderstanding.

Revelation is not in chronological order, but the seals are in chronological order. As are the trumpets and vials. To think differently puts you down that rabbit hole you are always talking about.

No, Rev 6, the 6th seal, is looking FORWARD to the white horse coming...AHEM, IN POWER AND GREAT GLORY.

No. Rev 6 is the coming of the Lord immediately after the great tribulation. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. This is why there is great multitude in heaven in Rev 7. That's how the great multitude gets to heaven to be at the marriage supper BEFORE the white horse's event of Rev 19.

Just another reason that we know that the 6th seal and 7th seal are different events.

Definately not 2 places where Jesus comes in power and great glory...as you are insisting

Well we know Jesus comes in power and glory at the 6th seal because the Word of God says so. There is nothing in the Word of God about Jesus coming in power and glory in Rev 19. I am willing to believe anytime Jesus shows up with His angels it will be in power and glory.

You are never able to address the facts. You just skip the scriptural facts and go by what you think. In Revelation 19 the coming on white horses, do you see a harvest? Do you see the angels gathering the elect? Or do you see Jesus coming for the Day of the Lord......Armageddon?

Try using scripture to form your beliefs. This THINKING how end times works does not work.

Just get out of the way and puts things where the God says they go, and quit thinking where they go.

 

[The Light]

For the 10th time
"Daniel"
"One week" hello 7 YEARS.

Agreed.

"In the middle of the week".
AHEM....THAT IS 3.5 YEARS

Agreed.

.
STOP THE NONSENSE.
It is your false timeline claiming the white horse rider is not, and can't be the AC.

Where do you get this nonsense from? I never said the white horse rider of the 1st seal is not an Antichrist. He is the beast of the earth. He is Horus, the false Christ.

 

[The Light]

I think it is describing…
Noah / Family comes ON the Ark.
I would suspect it was hectic, and they in and out settling the Animals on different decks (and stalls, so to speak), with an allotted time of 7 days.

This is not correct. There was not 7 days allotted for Noah to load the animals. The animals were loaded in one day as the Word of God declares.

 

[WPM]

Well we know Jesus comes in power and glory at the 6th seal because the Word of God says so. There is nothing in the Word of God about Jesus coming in power and glory in Rev 19. I am willing to believe anytime Jesus shows up with His angels it will be in power and glory.

You are never able to address the facts. You just skip the scriptural facts and go by what you think. In Revelation 19 the coming on white horses, do you see a harvest? Do you see the angels gathering the elect? Or do you see Jesus coming for the Day of the Lord......Armageddon?

Try using scripture to form your beliefs. This THINKING how end times works does not work.

Just get out of the way and puts things where the God says they go, and quit thinking where they go.

You have no answer to the truth. That is why you keep ducking around every single question and every single biblical argument. You have to in order to sustain your error.

Revelation 19:11-21 outlines: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant [Gr. loipoy or remaining ones or those left behind] were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

Please see that the wicked are destroyed by the sword of His voice. This is complete wholesale total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

This passage powerfully and solemnly reveals the full extent of the devastation that is to be focused upon the wicked on the day of God’s wrath. In perfect keeping with the rest of Scripture, this narrative graphically shows us that the destruction that occurs will be immediate, absolute and total and that, at this stage – after “the marriage of the Lamb” (Rev 19:7) – everyone left behind will be completely consumed; the birds of heaven filling themselves with “the flesh of all men.” Significantly, the suffix “both free and bond, both small and great” is added in order to fully impress the enormity and all-inclusive nature of this feast.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Revelation is not in chronological order, but the seals are in chronological order. As are the trumpets and vials. To think differently puts you down that rabbit hole you are always talking about.

No. Rev 6 is the coming of the Lord immediately after the great tribulation. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. This is why there is great multitude in heaven in Rev 7. That's how the great multitude gets to heaven to be at the marriage supper BEFORE the white horse's event of Rev 19.

Just another reason that we know that the 6th seal and 7th seal are different events.




Well we know Jesus comes in power and glory at the 6th seal because the Word of God says so. There is nothing in the Word of God about Jesus coming in power and glory in Rev 19. I am willing to believe anytime Jesus shows up with His angels it will be in power and glory.

You are never able to address the facts. You just skip the scriptural facts and go by what you think. In Revelation 19 the coming on white horses, do you see a harvest? Do you see the angels gathering the elect? Or do you see Jesus coming for the Day of the Lord......Armageddon?

Try using scripture to form your beliefs. This THINKING how end times works does not work.

Just get out of the way and puts things where the God says they go, and quit thinking where they go.

QUOTE
"Revelation is not in chronological order, but the seals are in chronological order. As are the trumpets and vials. To think differently puts you down that rabbit hole you are always talking about"

Talk about a rabbit hole.
Your theory has the 144,000 sealed AFTER Jesus comes in power and great glory .(read Rev 6 in strict chronological order).
So your misplaced timeline, has the second coming in power and great glory, then the 144,000 sealed.
That is ludicrous.

Are you also inferring that a coming after the trib, and before the wrath, is to the earth?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Agreed.


Agreed.


Where do you get this nonsense from? I never said the white horse rider of the 1st seal is not an Antichrist. He is the beast of the earth. He is Horus, the false Christ.

The AC
Not , "a AC"
I dont need him to be "horus"