Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
They symbolically relate the general spiritual battle between light and darkness.
The Light
Well-Known Member
So you are saying the Jesus does not lead the armies of heaven at Armageddon? This is the wrath of the Lamb.
Taken
Well-Known Member
The Lamb is IN Heaven Opening The 7 Seals…
By His Authority, His Tribulations, His Wrath, He is IS Unleashing, Authorizing, Commencing, His Tribulations and Wrath to come upon the Earth and its inhabitants.
Those NOT subject to His Tribulations and Wrath, are NOT upon the Earth.
Glory to God,
Taken
The Light
Well-Known Member
At the 6th seal, Jesus leaves heaven and comes for a harvest......seen here.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Yes, the Church will be in heaven BEFORE the seals are opened. And second harvest will occur at 6th seal. All believers will be in heaven for the marriage supper during the ONE YEAR wrath of God.
The Light
Well-Known Member
I would not have the faith needed to believe that God changed His pattern specifically for the 7th seal. As each seal is opened John SAW or BEHELD what happened.
For instance, look at a few of the seals. You can check every single seal. The pattern is the same
Revelation 6
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Now look at the 7th seal. The pattern is the same. The seal is opened and John saw the event that was to happen.
Revelation 8
1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
Why do you think that God changed His pattern and when seventh seal is opened what John saw is irrelevant to the seal that is opened, according to your belief? That does not seem logical, likely, practical, or sensible to me. What am I missing?
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
You are trying to make a case that Jesus comes in power and great glory during the trib and all the people on earth mourn, and he sends angels to gather.
That can only be after the wrath in Rev 19 on the white horses.
The 2 raptures are documented with JESUS GATHERING, not angels.
Neither of the 2 raptures are in power and great glory.
The Light
Well-Known Member
Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars fall from heaven. When the 6th seal is opened, the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven.
Simple. Jesus comes at the sixth seal. I have no clue why you are unable to SEE the obvious. Jesus comes in power and glory AT THE 6TH SEAL. Jesus sends His angels to gather the elect immediately after the tribulation of those days at the 6TH SEAL.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Do you see any Armageddon verses in the coming of Jesus verses in Matthew 24. If so......post it.
Do you see any angels gathering believers in the coming of Jesus with the armies of heaven in Revelation 19. If so......post it.
The Light
Well-Known Member
I see that you have been unable to address my last comments regarding the 7th seal. John SAW what was to happen in the 7th seal just as he did in the first six seals.
The post trib claim that the 6th seal is the same as the 7th trumpet is not true. The seventh seal is the wrath of God and contains the 7th trumpet.
I'm always puzzled by those that choose doctrine above the truth. Don't you even want the truth?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I have addressed the 7th seal with you several times. Why are you demanding that I do it again? If you just forget what I tell you every time, then what is the point? I don't believe your argument is valid and I have explained my understanding of why I believe the 7 seals, trumpets and vials are parallel. I go above and beyond to explain what I believe and why as well as why what you believe is false and why and you still are not satisfied. It's clearly a waste of my time to try to talk to you about these things because nothing I say or do is ever enough for you. Look at how much detail I go into compared to anyone else you talk to and you still have the nerve to complain that I'm not addressing your arguments enough? Get serious.
Are you kidding me here? What a stupid question. Do I really come across as someone who does not "even want the truth"? You can disagree with me all you want, but I have done NOTHING to indicate that I don't "even want the truth". Don't ever ask me such a stupid question ever again.
The Light
Well-Known Member
How can the seals, trumpets and vials be parallel when the 7th seal contains the 7 trumpets and 7 vials. That doesn't work.
It would seem if you were interested in the truth, you would recognize that the 7th seal follows the 6th seal and what John saw take place in the 7th seal was at minimum 7 trumpets. and not just silence in heaven.
These teachings from this doctrine that you follow does not agree with common sense and requires a leap of faith that is unreasonable i.e. John saw things in the 1st six seals which you agree with, but when John sees things in the 7th seal, they happen earlier. Makes no sense.
Can you explain where the asteroid in the third trumpet takes place in the seals if it doesn't occur in the 7th seal when Word of God says it does.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
It doesn't say that the 7th seal contains the 7 trumpets and vials. That comes from your imagination.
At the 7th trumpet the kingdom(s) of the world become the kingdom(s) of God the Father and Jesus Christ. And it signals the time for the dead to be judged and for believers to be rewarded. How can the 7 vials all occur after the kingdom(s) of the world become the kingdom(s) of God the Father and Son? That makes no sense. The 7th vial is parallel to the 7th seal and trumpet.
Don't say stupid things like this to me.
I don't recognize your false beliefs as the truth. Get that through your head. There is silence in heaven because no one is there. Jesus, the souls of the dead in Christ and the angels will have all descended from heaven at that point.
Ah, common sense. Also known as fallible human wisdom. What did Paul say about relying on that in 1 Corinthians 2:9-16?
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