Why the great chain?

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Jay Ross

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Jay Ross explained:
<Satan is imprisoned deep in the earth>

That is noted in Revelation 20:1-3. He is imprisoned{,} during the 1000-years reign of Jesus, {in} solitary confinement.

I agree that Satan will be imprisoned deep in the earth, along with the five beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 and the judged kings of the earth, for many days, i.e. for 1,000 years, to await the time of their punishment in the Lake of Fire. It is my view that this will happen in around 19 years from now.

I also agree that in parallel with Satan being locked in the Bottomless pit, that Christ's 1,000 years reign as our High Priest while having dominion over all of the peoples of the earth who should serve/worship Him.

After the 1,000 years of confinement, Satan, and the five beasts, of Daniel 7:1-12, and the Judged kings of the earth, will be released for the Little While Period, nominally for around 24 years, during which time they will orchestrate the Great Tribulation and Christ will intervene by Capturing the beast, which is the four beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 acting as a singular beast, and the False Prophet, i.e. the Little Horn of Daniel 7 and 8 and throwing them into the Lake of Fire and then, shortly afterwards, Christ will also capture Satan and dispose of him into the Lake of Fire.

It is then after all this that the Second Advent of Christ will occur, and He will then judge all the peoples of the earth to separate the unrighteous from the righteous who will then receive their inheritance of the whole earth.

Shalom
 

Jay Ross

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It is a chain of circumstances that deny Satan the ability to tempt the nations. The reason for that is that is that during the coming 1000 years the nations are no more. The earth is empty, barren, lifeless. It is in a state of absolute decay and ruin after the plagues and earthquakes etc destroy it. Satan is alone with his demons to consider his position and all the ruin and death he brought upon God's creation. But he will never repent or regret. At the end of the 1000 years at the second resurrection of the dead, all the wicked well be gathered into one vasr army tray to attack the Holy city when it descends out of heaven along with the redeemed from all ages. They will then be finally judged, fire coming down and destroying them all. This is the lake of fire which cleanses the planet of everything that defiles it. Sin. Sinners. Pollution. Death. Then the earth is recreated and becomes the eternal home to be inherited by the meek.

It seems that you are off with the fairies at the bottom of your imaginary garden with this outrages construct of the future events described in the Scriptures.

It is not what I read will happen in the Scriptures.

Good Luck with your future
 

Douggg

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After the 1,000 years of confinement, Satan, and the five beasts, of Daniel 7:1-12, and the Judged kings of the earth, will be released for the Little While Period, nominally for around 24 years, during which time they will orchestrate the Great Tribulation and Christ will intervene by Capturing the beast, which is the four beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 acting as a singular beast, and the False Prophet, i.e. the Little Horn of Daniel 7 and 8 and throwing them into the Lake of Fire and then, shortly afterwards, Christ will also capture Satan and dispose of him into the Lake of Fire.
Here is what the text says. Summarized, one last Satan inspired rebellion of the nations (verse 9). Which will attack Israel and Jerusalem (verse 9). And be destroyed by fire from God out of heaven (verse 9).

Revelation 20:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.



final rebellion 4.jpg
 

Spiritual Israelite

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It seems that you are off with the fairies at the bottom of your imaginary garden with this outrages construct of the future events described in the Scriptures.
I agree that his view (the SDA view) of the thousand years is outrageous, but no moreso than yours. At least a fair amount of people agree with his view of the thousand years (unfortunately), but you're all alone with your beliefs.
 

Jay Ross

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Here is what the text says. Summarized, one last Satan inspired rebellion of the nations (verse 9). Which will attack Israel and Jerusalem (verse 9). And be destroyed by fire from God out of heaven (verse 9).

Revelation 20:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.



View attachment 84857

Oh dear Dougggggggggg, we have had this discussion before and since your understanding of the timeline is flawed, there is no point in actually responding to your crazy theories.
 

Jay Ross

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I agree that his view (the SDA view) of the thousand years is outrageous, but no more so than yours. At least a fair amount of people agree with his view of the thousand years (unfortunately), but you're all alone with your beliefs.

Because it is often unsafe to endorse a fellow member's point of view because of people like you who find fault with others who do not conform with your understanding, they remain silent and as such your claim that I am all alone with my beliefs is actually unsupported because of the silence of the other members. You have drawn a conclusion out of the silence of the majority of other members which may or may not be true.

I have consistently presented that Satan, the beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 and the judged Kings of the Earth will be imprisoned for 1,000 years, after which time the Bottomless pit will be unlocked such that, they are able to return to operate on the face of the earth.

Comparing my understanding of the scriptures with Bakelite's perspective and understanding is a very false argument to justify your claims against me.

Goodbye
 
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Jay Ross

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A civilian tower at a home was used for storage (Luke 14:28).

Fortresses would also have towers (Psalm 61:3).

"Tower" in this context is a personal external storage building.

It seems to me that you have made up your mind that your understanding is the only way that Luke 14:28 should be understood.

Oh well, till the next time we cross paths.
 
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Brakelite

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It seems that you are off with the fairies at the bottom of your imaginary garden with this outrages construct of the future events described in the Scriptures.

It is not what I read will happen in the Scriptures.

Good Luck with your future
The millennium is book-ended by two resurrections.

Take careful note...
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
These people who had gotten the victory over the beast and his mark are in heaven.
So how did these people come alive in order to live 1000 years, and when did this take place, and who are they?
1 Thess.4:16-17 "the dead in Christ shall rise first". Here is the first resurrection, mentioned below in verse 5. It is the resurrection of all those throughout human history who were saved and had died in Christ. That includes those who were martyred in the last days. See also 1Cor.15:51-55 and John 5:25.

Now note well...
“5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Who are the rest of the dead? Well, that's easy. Everyone else who has died throughout human history without Christ. That includes those who died at the second coming. They have to lie unburied...

“30 Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth. 31 A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD. 32 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth. 33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground. ”... until the 1000 years is up.
Jeremiah 25:30-33 KJV

“15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Thess. 4:15-17

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, ”
Revelation 20:5-7 KJV

Of course, those that were living at the time of Christ's coming were translated and were taken up along with those resurrected saints.

The saints are in heaven during the 1000 years. See John 14:1-3 and 1 Peter 1:4.

Satan and his demons are alone on a desolate uninhabitable ruin. That is the chain that binds him. He cannot do anything except think. That is every bit as much a prison as any physical chain or cell. The earth itself is the abyss, same word used in Genesis to describe the earth before creation. This is the state of the earth before recreation. The earth, after 6000 years of abuse, over work, pollution, and stress, is finally getting its much deserved 1000 year Sabbath rest and will continue in that state until its recreated.

“1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. 9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. 16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. 17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. 18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. 19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; 20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. 21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. ”
Revelation 21:1-27 KJV

And Satan? What does he do with all the wicked when they are raised at the end?
“7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. ”
Revelation 20:7-15 KJV
 

Jay Ross

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The millennium is book-ended by two resurrections.

Take careful note...
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
These people who had gotten the victory over the beast and his mark are in heaven.

True

So how did these people come alive in order to live 1000 years, and when did this take place, and who are they?

1 Thess.4:16-17 "the dead in Christ shall rise first". Here is the first resurrection, mentioned below in verse 5. It is the resurrection of all those throughout human history who were saved and had died in Christ. That includes those who were martyred in the last days. See also 1Cor.15:51-55 and John 5:25.

I am not sure that t1 Thess 4:16-17 is applicable to the Saints who partake in the first resurection.

Now note well...

“5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Who are the rest of the dead? Well, that's easy. Everyone else who has died throughout human history without Christ. That includes those who died at the second coming. They have to lie unburied...

Is not the second resurrection in Rev 20:11-15

Rev 20:11-15: - 11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. . . . . . 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
ESV
Now I am not sure that your claim in the above quote of your post is factually correct.

“30 Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth. 31 A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD. 32 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth. 33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground. ”... until the 1000 years is up.
Jeremiah 25:30-33 KJV

I am not sure that this passage is applicable to the time of theMillennium.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, ”
Revelation 20:5-7 KJV

Of course, those that were living at the time of Christ's coming were translated and were taken up along with those resurrected saints.

The saints are in heaven during the 1000 years. See John 14:1-3 and 1 Peter 1:4.

Your claim here is not true. The rest of the Saint have to await the second resurrection when Christ comes to Judge the peoples of the earth.

Satan and his demons are alone on a desolate uninhabitable ruin. That is the chain that binds him. He cannot do anything except think. That is every bit as much a prison as any physical chain or cell. The earth itself is the abyss, same word used in Genesis to describe the earth before creation. This is the state of the earth before recreation. The earth, after 6000 years of abuse, over work, pollution, and stress, is finally getting its much deserved 1000 year Sabbath rest and will continue in that state until its recreated.

I am not sure how you came to this conclusion.

“1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. . . . 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. ”
Revelation 21:1-27 KJV

And Satan? What does he do with all the wicked when they are raised at the end?
“7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four . . . .14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. ”
Revelation 20:7-15 KJV

I again am not sure where this particular understanding came from or if it is supported scripturally.

Your posted rebuttal only confirmed my first impression of what you had originally posted and which I had posted upon.

Goodbye
 
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All that you have provided is you own personal opinion.

When God built a garden what was the function of the tower in the middle of the garden?

Here is that parable: -

Matt 21:33-41: - The Parable of the Wicked Vinedressers
(Mark 12:1-12; Luke 20:9-19)
33 "Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.' 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.T


40 "Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?"​
41 They said to Him, "He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons."​

NKJV
My understand of the function of the tower was that it was a temple. When David decided to build a Temple to God did he not build that temple upon a grape press?
A civilian tower at a home was used for storage (Luke 14:28).

Fortresses would also have towers (Psalm 61:3).
It seems to me that you have lost track of what the metaphors represent. A tower represents a temple that the Israelites will attempt to build.

It is as clear as day for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.
IMO:

A tower has no relation to the Jewish temple itself. There might be a tower nearby to guard the temple. If you disagree then I suggest you cite a reference that says the temple is associated with a tower.
 
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Jay Ross

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A civilian tower at a home was used for storage (Luke 14:28).

Fortresses would also have towers (Psalm 61:3).

A tower has no relation to the Jewish temple.

I have suggested that we should both agree to disagree and to let this difference of opinions rest.

Goodbye
 
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quietthinker

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It seems that you are off with the fairies at the bottom of your imaginary garden with this outrages construct of the future events described in the Scriptures.

It is not what I read will happen in the Scriptures.

Good Luck with your future
or have you considered the possibility you you being off with the fairies Jay? Of course you haven't. Your paradigm is never questioned and therefore any variation must be wrong. I guess the Jews who had Jesus killed also never questioned their paradigm.

Yes, PARADIGM, I've used that word a lot on this forum and not had one enquiry to what specifically I'm referring to; that also tells a story!
 

Jay Ross

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Yes, PARADIGM, I've used that word a lot on this forum and not had one enquiry to what specifically I'm referring to; that also tells a story!

Perhaps they understand that you play the role of advocatus diaboli and leave you to rest within your own paradigm.
 

ewq1938

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Yes, PARADIGM, I've used that word a lot on this forum and not had one enquiry to what specifically I'm referring to; that also tells a story!
 

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"Paradigm" stems from Greek:
παρα = "beyond"
δεικνυμι = "to show"

Hence "model demonstrating a concept."

Also "two dimes," as noted in the picture.
 
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