When Jesus "took away" your sin, did He leave behind the source, the sin nature?

[amigo de christo]

I think it is simple

are we obeying God or are we disobedient.

if we are obeying, we must be doing somethign right.. if not. we need to start loving them over self

in essence that would be spot on right .
but what if i told you
that through a false sensual inclusive ecumencial interfaith love
that many NOW DIRECTLY DISOBEY GOD , only they BELEIVE THEY OBEY HIM , and even LOVE HIM and their neighbor as their self .
IF you have any questions the time to ask them is now .
I am not the enemy of humanity that i have been made out to be . I am not the agent of anti christ or satan
BY grace i have simply seen what is going on my friend . And i am t elling you
with all the desires for your good and their good
WE HAVE GOT TO GET THE HECK OFF this ecumeincal interfaith for peace TRAIN . now
rather than aruging , YOU can simply start asking me questions . Also sister nancy sent you a video
when you had asked me about this . But either you never watched it or whaterver
cause you never once responded to it . again that is not to accuse you . BUT its simply time
to do all to help all that i can .

 

[MatthewG]

What do I think you ask, well, your teaching is new for me, but you explained it very well.

Thanks.

 

[marks]

Unintentional sins are NOT sins of the flesh. You still need to learn the difference. All lusts of the flesh are willful.

Unintentional sins are like when you don't know you've stepped across an unmarked property line and are trespassing. Aside from that you choose what you do, and should just own that fact. Trying to excuse sins by parsing them into OK and Not OK, well, if you are fooling anyone, it's only yourself.

Either your actions (words) are sourced from your spirit or your flesh, no excuses, no "well it's not really sins so . . .", none of that nonesense.

Walk in truth!

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Unintentional sins are like when you don't know you've stepped across an unmarked property line and are trespassing. Aside from that you choose what you do, and should just own that fact. Trying to excuse sins by parsing them into OK and Not OK, well, if you are fooling anyone, it's only yourself.

Either your actions (words) are sourced from your spirit or your flesh, no excuses, no "well it's not really sins so . . .", none of that nonesense.

Walk in truth!

Much love!

Numbers 15:22-29 is a sacrifice for unintentional sins. Leviticus 5:15 says “If a person commits a trespass, and sins unintentionally in regard to the holy things of the Lord, then he shall bring to the Lord as his trespass offering a ram without blemish from the flocks, with your valuation in shekels of silver according to the shekel of the sanctuary, as a trespass offering.

Note those are trespasses. In the Lord's prayer deals with trespasses, thus they are UNINTENTIONAL.

For the past 3,500 years sin was either intentional or unintentional, until the Reformation lumped them altogether and taught "sin is sin." They also use 1 John 1:9 which is actually cleansing us from all unrighteousness and is equal to Acts 2:38 Repent, ....and you shall have the gift of the Holy Spirit. Both are how to become a Christian. But the Reformationists corrupted the Word of God about sin. They also teach you can use 1 John 1:9 as a get out of hell free card for willful sins you committed intentionally. Like a woman who wants an abortion and tells herself she will just ask for forgiveness later. God will not be mocked.

Both the Lord's Prayer and Matthew 6:14-15 has to do with unintentional sins called trespasses.

 

[marks]

Numbers 15:22-29 is a sacrifice for unintentional sins. Leviticus 5:15 says “If a person commits a trespass, and sins unintentionally in regard to the holy things of the Lord, then he shall bring to the Lord as his trespass offering a ram without blemish from the flocks, with your valuation in shekels of silver according to the shekel of the sanctuary, as a trespass offering.

Note those are trespasses. In the Lord's prayer deals with trespasses, thus they are UNINTENTIONAL.

For the past 3,500 years sin was either intentional or unintentional, until the Reformation lumped them altogether and taught "sin is sin." They also use 1 John 1:9 which is actually cleansing us from all unrighteousness and is equal to Acts 2:38 Repent, ....and you shall have the gift of the Holy Spirit. Both are how to become a Christian. But the Reformationists corrupted the Word of God about sin. They also teach you can use 1 John 1:9 as a get out of hell free card for willful sins you committed intentionally. Like a woman who wants an abortion and tells herself she will just ask for forgiveness later. God will not be mocked.

Both the Lord's Prayer and Matthew 6:14-15 has to do with unintentional sins called trespasses.

Leave the Law to the Israelites. You aren't a part of that covenant.

You're sins are intentional, and don't tell me you no longer sin, don't do that to yourself.

I'm not going to be responding to you further, it encourages your unhealthy pursuit. Again I will pray, May God open your eyes.

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

Leave the Law to the Israelites. You aren't a part of that covenant.

The Law contains shadows/types of spiritual things and spiritual truths......and the Old Testament and New Testament are not in opposition to one another. There IS a difference between wilful sins and unintentional or inadvertent sins, which is seen in both Old and New Testaments. The New Testament says if one keeps on wilfully sinning there is no more sacrifice for that...which is a way of saying it will not be forgiven. Whereas for sins that are not wilful we have an Advocate. And this can be seen in the Law. Maybe you didn't catch the OP:

Adam and Even did not know they were naked when Eve first ate of the forbidden tree, but their eyes were opened only after Adam committed a willful sin against the commandment of God and knowingly and willfully sinned against God, Himself. There is a difference in sin in the eyes of God. From that one willful sin man' clean human nature mutated and acquired Satan's sin nature, a "work" of Satan. Unintentional Sin vs. Willful Sin. In the Old Testament Numbers 15:22-36 shows that there WAS a sacrifice for unintentional sin, but NO sacrifice for a willful sin against a law of God. They were stoned, or at the least sent out of the camp to die alone in the blistering hot wilderness with no Cloud to cover them, and no pillar of Fire to warm them at night.

Wilful sins are sins that are unto death in other words, which First Century Lady has mentioned elsewhere in case you didn't see those posts....where we see the penalty for those sins in the OT is death. Whereas we have a sacrifice and Advocate f(Christ) for unintentional sins....and likewise there is not a death penalty for those sins in the OT if one makes sacrifice for them. To be fair, I don't believe FCL is making light of unintentional sins at all, but just pointing out that God treats the two types of sins differently.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Leave the Law to the Israelites. You aren't a part of that covenant.

You're sins are intentional, and don't tell me you no longer sin, don't do that to yourself.

I'm not going to be responding to you further, it encourages your unhealthy pursuit. Again I will pray, May God open your eyes.

Much love!

My unhealthy pursuit? What, more ad hominems? More hypocrisy? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

And more bad doctrine? Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law."

Here again willful sinning while being under the law, or establishing the law as we easily keep it has to do with our nature. Those with a sin nature live in opposition to the law as they struggle to try and keep it. Those with a new nature have the laws as part of their new nature because the Spirit has written them on our heart. We keep the law naturally, not in opposition to their sin nature which is alive and well. You seem to want to claim the latter state.

If I sin, I don't know about it as my conscience is clear, and Jesus has cleansed any unintentional trespasses I may have committed.

 

[Marvelloustime]

Kinda odd is the fact I SEE MUCH TRUTH IN THIS .
But that is not what is odd
what is odd is , WHY are you all following an ecumeincal intefaith of what i KNOW and absoltuley KNOW To be of many anti christs .
And why o why are so many beleiving in a love that wont correct sin in those churches .
AND WHY o why am i seeing a love getting embraced
that not only wont correct sins , but even h onors certain sins and , and UNBELIEF .
ANYONE wanna explain THAT ONE .

@amigo de christo

 

[Lizbeth]

My unhealthy pursuit? What, more ad hominems? More hypocrisy? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

And more bad doctrine? Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law."

Here again willful sinning while being under the law, or establishing the law as we easily keep it has to do with our nature. Those with a sin nature live in opposition to the law as they struggle to try and keep it. Those with a new nature have the laws as part of their new nature because the Spirit has written them on our heart. We keep the law naturally, not in opposition to their sin nature which is alive and well. You seem to want to claim the latter state.

If I sin, I don't know about it as my conscience is clear, and Jesus has cleansed any unintentional trespasses I may have committed.

I'm finding it hard to follow and parse everything that is being said these days, but think I might be able to comment on this. Since we are instructed/taught to sow to the spirit and not to the flesh......it seems to me, this must mean that believers still have the ability and power to choose which one to sow to, generally speaking. If we sin against our own will, it is no longer "I" who sin but sin living in me....meaning it came alive in that moment instead of being crucified/dead.

Regarding conscience, I know that there have been times when I have sinned (or trespassed) inadvertently, but it smote my conscience. I became conscious of the wrong I said or did pretty quick and sometimes instantly. Other times I only became conscious of it later on in hindsight when the Lord brought it to my remembrance. (Not going to say I am always conscious of my wrong, because we all have personal faults/shortcomings we may not yet be aware of.) The Holy Spirit is the one who brings it to our awareness/consciousness....the light of the Lord. And then once aware, confessing and repenting to the Lord cleanses our conscience of it and we can put it behind us. When we have communion we are even told to examine ourselves....this is so that we can bring any wrongs/sins/trespasses that we may have committed to the cross as we refresh Christ's sacrifice to ourselves, as it were, in partaking of His body/blood afresh (by proxy with bread /wine).

 

[Rockerduck]

When you are born, you were born in sin. That sin caused you to start dying as soon as you were born. Death came to us from the sin of Adam that is in us. If you are 'born again" and receive the Holy Spirit, your spirit is made alive, but your body is still dying and the dying body is, once again, from the fall of Adam's sin. We carry this sin nature because we are born into this world with it. "Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day. 2 Cor. 4:16. Our spirit is alive, but the sin is still there and we cannot loose it, until death or rapture.
Preach what the bible says and not what you believe it says.
Jesus said in Matthew 18:7 - What sorrow awaits the world, because it tempts people to sin. Temptations are inevitable, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I'm finding it hard to follow and parse everything that is being said these days, but think I might be able to comment on this. Since we are instructed/taught to sow to the spirit and not to the flesh......it seems to me, this must mean that believers still have the ability and power to choose which one to sow to, generally speaking. If we sin against our own will, it is no longer "I" who sin but sin living in me....meaning it came alive in that moment instead of being crucified/dead.

Regarding conscience, I know that there have been times when I have sinned (or trespassed) inadvertently, but it smote my conscience. I became conscious of the wrong I said or did pretty quick and sometimes instantly. Other times I only became conscious of it later on in hindsight when the Lord brought it to my remembrance. (Not going to say I am always conscious of my wrong, because we all have personal faults/shortcomings we may not yet be aware of.) The Holy Spirit is the one who brings it to our awareness/consciousness....the light of the Lord. And then once aware, confessing and repenting to the Lord cleanses our conscience of it and we can put it behind us. When we have communion we are even told to examine ourselves....this is so that we can bring any wrongs/sins/trespasses that we may have committed to the cross as we refresh Christ's sacrifice to ourselves, as it were, in partaking of His body/blood afresh (by proxy with bread /wine).

What I teach is straight from the Bible, and not church fathers, except the apostles, of course. I had to give up all denominations because they all seemed to believe false doctrines regarding sin, the number one reason Jesus came to earth. 1 John 3:5 "And He was manifested to take away our sin, and in Him is no sin."

I'd like to make a couple comments. The above I highlighted in red is not a Christian, but is found in Romans 7:14-25 depicting those in the Old Testament trying to keep the Ten Commandments with an alive and fully functioning sin nature, called "the flesh." But a Christian is not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. This is the major difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The New Covenant is based on the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus to our old man, we call the sin nature. It is taken away and buried. False teachers like to justify their sins by claiming we will always sin due to still having a sin nature. Though some teach we now have two natures, the sin nature and a clean nature.

As far as our conscience, the best scenario in having the Holy Spirit is meant to prevent us from sinning in the first place BEFORE we sin, not just checking your spirit afterwards with guilt. But that depends on how mature we are in Christ. Remember, after Jesus takes away our past sins upon being born again of the Spirit as the Author of our faith, He then starts on the fruit of the Spirit which is a process called glorification, not sanctification as we were washed, sanctified and justified at the beginning of our faith, 1 Cor. 6:11. This brings up another false doctrine. Most of the Church teaches we will not be glorified until after we die and our body is resurrected and glorified. But read Romans 8:29-30 and notice we are justified and glorified. No sanctification, because all that means is once cleansed we are ""set apart." Glorification is being conformed into the image of Christ through the maturing of all the fruit of the Spirit to where we never stumble, 2 Pt. 1:5-11. Another false doctrine regarding sanctification is that it is the process of us overcoming sin. Wrong. If we still have to overcome sin, we may not even be on the path to salvation.

 

[Rockerduck]

What I teach is straight from the Bible, and not church fathers, except the apostles, of course. I had to give up all denominations because they all seemed to believe false doctrines regarding sin, the number one reason Jesus came to earth. 1 John 3:5 "And He was manifested to take away our sin, and in Him is no sin."

I'd like to make a couple comments. The above I highlighted in red is not a Christian, but is found in Romans 7:14-25 depicting those in the Old Testament trying to keep the Ten Commandments with an alive and fully functioning sin nature, called "the flesh." But a Christian is not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. This is the major difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The New Covenant is based on the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus to our old man, we call the sin nature. It is taken away and buried. False teachers like to justify their sins by claiming we will always sin due to still having a sin nature. Though some teach we now have two natures, the sin nature and a clean nature.

As far as our conscience, the best scenario in having the Holy Spirit is meant to prevent us from sinning in the first place BEFORE we sin, not just checking your spirit afterwards with guilt. But that depends on how mature we are in Christ. Remember, after Jesus takes away our past sins upon being born again of the Spirit as the Author of our faith, He then starts on the fruit of the Spirit which is a process called glorification, not sanctification as we were washed, sanctified and justified at the beginning of our faith, 1 Cor. 6:11. This brings up another false doctrine. Most of the Church teaches we will not be glorified until after we die and our body is resurrected and glorified. But read Romans 8:29-30 and notice we are justified and glorified. No sanctification, because all that means is once cleansed we are ""set apart." Glorification is being conformed into the image of Christ through the maturing of all the fruit of the Spirit to where we never stumble, 2 Pt. 1:5-11. Another false doctrine regarding sanctification is that it is the process of us overcoming sin. Wrong. If we still have to overcome sin, we may not even be on the path to salvation.

Jesus did take away our sin, its not seen anymore. Even that which you do, is still not seen. Read what Jesus means. Your sin is gone from you as far as the east is from the west Psalm 103:12. Even if you sin, which you do knowingly or not, Sin is in you from birth. When you were born again you did not receive new kidneys or liver. The sin body is death, but we have eternal life in Jesus Christ.

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus did take away our sin, its not seen anymore. Even that which you do, is still not seen. Read what Jesus means. Your sin is gone from you as far as the east is from the west Psalm 103:12. Even if you sin, which you do knowingly or not, Sin is in you from birth. When you were born again you did not receive new kidneys or liver. The sin body is death, but we have eternal life in Jesus Christ.

I was just sitting here thinking, that's all this person thinks about is sin it seems like. I don't think about sin. All I know is accountability, and self-actions that are made, and being accountable for your choices and being straight forward with God. Regardless if intentional or unintentional.

 

[Lizbeth]

What I teach is straight from the Bible, and not church fathers, except the apostles, of course. I had to give up all denominations because they all seemed to believe false doctrines regarding sin, the number one reason Jesus came to earth. 1 John 3:5 "And He was manifested to take away our sin, and in Him is no sin."

I'd like to make a couple comments. The above I highlighted in red is not a Christian, but is found in Romans 7:14-25 depicting those in the Old Testament trying to keep the Ten Commandments with an alive and fully functioning sin nature, called "the flesh." But a Christian is not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. This is the major difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The New Covenant is based on the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus to our old man, we call the sin nature. It is taken away and buried. False teachers like to justify their sins by claiming we will always sin due to still having a sin nature. Though some teach we now have two natures, the sin nature and a clean nature.

As far as our conscience, the best scenario in having the Holy Spirit is meant to prevent us from sinning in the first place BEFORE we sin, not just checking your spirit afterwards with guilt. But that depends on how mature we are in Christ. Remember, after Jesus takes away our past sins upon being born again of the Spirit as the Author of our faith, He then starts on the fruit of the Spirit which is a process called glorification, not sanctification as we were washed, sanctified and justified at the beginning of our faith, 1 Cor. 6:11. This brings up another false doctrine. Most of the Church teaches we will not be glorified until after we die and our body is resurrected and glorified. But read Romans 8:29-30 and notice we are justified and glorified. No sanctification, because all that means is once cleansed we are ""set apart." Glorification is being conformed into the image of Christ through the maturing of all the fruit of the Spirit to where we never stumble, 2 Pt. 1:5-11. Another false doctrine regarding sanctification is that it is the process of us overcoming sin. Wrong. If we still have to overcome sin, we may not even be on the path to salvation.

Jesus "taking away" our sin.......I don't take that to necessarily be in a literal sense, but spiritual, in a manner of speaking kind of way. It means our sins are remitted/forgiven....like a debt. Sometimes the Lord can and will literally remove a specific sin or sins in His wisdom and by His grace, but overall that verse is in context (Hebrews 10) of talking about His once for all sacrifice, to my understanding. Otherwise under the old covenant they had to keep on sacrificing animals year after year, because the blood of animals was never sufficient to be a one time sacrifice and bring about a permanent forgiveness/justification, only a temporary covering and reminder (consciousness) of sins year after year......which was to cause them to look for a better solution in the Christ who was to come. Ritual sacrificing of animals did not purchase them eternal life, only temporal blessings........only those old covenant Jews who had genuine faith and died in faith were to receive eternal life after Jesus died and rose from the dead.

I don't think in terms that sin is inevitable for the believer, or that we "have" to sin, and I don't think it should be preached that way. The bible expresses it as "IF we sin, we have an Advocate", not "when" we sin. Our aim should be nothing less than aiming for perfection and holiness. But the reality is that the vast majority of us do inadvertently sin after coming to faith in Christ.......hopefully not those major wilful sins though. Another reality is that some get gradually lured to deception, sin and spiritual death...we see that with so many wealthy and successful televangelists..

The bible says we are to "reckon" our old man to be dead, not that it is literally dead.....because that won't happen literally until our flesh literally dies. Until then the potential exists for a believer to build again what was once destroyed or to return to wallowing in the mud etc. That must mean it was only destroyed in a manner of speaking, not in a literal sense.

 

[Linda]

As to your verse in Hebrews 10:2- You are reading something into that which is not there. I offer you 3 old commentaries in my next post that explain better than I do.
"For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins."

1.Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sin - That is, if their sacrifices remove their past sins, to give forgiveness, they would have had no more trouble of conscience on account of them. They would not have felt that it was necessary to make these sacrifices over and over again in order to find peace. When a man has full evidence that an atonement has been made which will meet all the demands of the Law, and which secures the remission of sin, he feels that it is enough.. But when he does "not" feel this peace, or has no evidence that his sins are all forgiven, those sins will rise to remembrance, and he will be alarmed. He may be punished for them after all. if a man wants peace he should have good evidence that his sins are forgiven through the blood of the atonement.
No temporary expedient; no attempt to cover them up; no effort to forget them will answer the purpose. They "must be blotted out" if he will have peace - and that can be only through a perfect sacrifice.
By the use of the word rendered "conscience" here, it is not meant that he who was pardoned would have no "consciousness" that he was a sinner, or that he would forget it, but that he would have no trouble of conscience; he would have no apprehension of future wrath. The pardon of sin does not cause it to cease to be remembered. He who is forgiven may have a deeper conviction of its evil than he had ever had before. But he will not be troubled or distressed by it as if it were to expose him to the wrath of God. The remembrance of it will humble him; it will serve to exalt his conceptions of the mercy of God and the glory of the atonement, but it will no longer overwhelm the mind with the dread of wrath. The very fact that they did it, showed that the conscience was not at peace.

2. Matthew Poole's Commentary
Because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins: for then this effect would have followed, the worshippers who were to be atoned for or expiated by these sacrifices, if they had perfected them, i.e. pardoned, justified, and acquitted them from guilt of sin and punishment, there would have nothing remained to have troubled, vexed, or tormented their souls, they being no further accused or condemned by their conscience about sin, God having justified and sanctified them, Hebrews 9:14,26,28; compare Romans 5:1,2,11.

3. Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
Because the worshippers, once purged, would have had no more conscience of sins; there are external and internal worshippers; the latter are such who worship God in Spirit and in truth: but here ceremonial worshippers are meant, who, if they had been really purged from sin by legal sacrifices, and purifications, would have had no more conscience of sins, and so have had no need to have repeated them; as such spiritual worshippers, who are once purged from sin by the blood and sacrifice of Christ; not that they have no sin, or no sense of sin, or that their consciences are seared, or that they never accuse for sin, or that they are to make no confession and acknowledgment of sin; but that they are discharged from the guilt of sin, and are not liable to condemnation for it; and through the application of the blood of Christ to them, have peace with God, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

If we choose where to live what to say what to wear, etc, everything we do we choose on our own!
We cant say The devil made me do it, just as we cant say, God has already destroyed sin, when
Although He destroyed sin and death if we
Obey Him throughout our life and His death
On the Cross is how those Saved, get there,
We first must take responsibility for our actions
That lead to Heaven or Hell.

 

[Rockerduck]

If we choose where to live what to say what to wear, etc, everything we do we choose on our own!
We cant say The devil made me do it, just as we cant say, God has already destroyed sin, when
Although He destroyed sin and death if we
Obey Him throughout our life and His death
On the Cross is how those Saved, get there,
We first must take responsibility for our actions
That lead to Heaven or Hell.

You have to be "born again" from above by the Grace of God through Faith in Jesus Christ to go to heaven and receive the Holy Spirit. Jesus conquered sin and death for the elect, it is still in the unbeliever. Yes, Proverbs 3:5-6 trust the lord with all your heart, acknowledge Him in all your ways, and He will direct your paths.
You see that, God will direct your paths and make them right. You may think you chose something, but it is God who make it possible. You might make a bad choice, but you will never lose you salvation if you are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

 

[PS95]

If we choose where to live what to say what to wear, etc, everything we do we choose on our own!
We cant say The devil made me do it, just as we cant say, God has already destroyed sin, when
Although He destroyed sin and death if we
Obey Him throughout our life and His death
On the Cross is how those Saved, get there,
We first must take responsibility for our actions
That lead to Heaven or Hell.

HI Linda- I'm not real sure what that is about. None of that has anything to do with those commentaries or anything I have ever stated.
I take responsibility for any sin, and don't just blame it on Adam like many do. I also know that the Lord forgives sins, but that is certainly no ticket to sin all you want.
I posted Hebrew commentary for her to read since she misapplied that passage.
That has nothing to do with anything you just stated, so I'm at a loss as to what you are talking about.
I agree with some things that 1st century lady says because many today do have a cavalier attitude toward sin and some even say we can't sin because we have no law. Of course that's wrong. My concern with the OP is multi- faceted, but suffice to say, her definition of sins not leading to death is wrong. She made it about the 10 commandments. That's an error.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

HI Linda- I'm not real sure what that is about. None of that has anything to do with those commentaries or anything I have ever stated.
I take responsibility for any sin, and don't just blame it on Adam like many do. I also know that the Lord forgives sins, but that is certainly no ticket to sin all you want.
I posted Hebrew commentary for her to read since she misapplied that passage.
That has nothing to do with anything you just stated, so I'm at a loss as to what you are talking about.
I agree with some things that 1st century lady says because many today do have a cavalier attitude toward sin and some even say we can't sin because we have no law. Of course that's wrong. My concern with the OP is multi- faceted, but suffice to say, her definition of sins not leading to death is wrong. She made it about the 10 commandments. That's an error.

I'm saying that the Ten Commandments everyone knows, therefore would be a willful sin; a known action of the flesh. And the list goes further than just ten. Check Galatians 5:19-21 to see if we really are a Christian or not. After our past sins are cleansed and the sin nature is now clean, we do not desire to commit any sins. That is being born again of the powerful Holy Spirit. After that, we will sin but NOT KNOW IT. These are unintentional sins that miss the mark. Mostly immature fruit of the Spirit that Jesus is in control over through our conscience. These 1 John 1:7 says we will commit while walking in the Spirit and Jesus automatically cleanses them as our Advocate. 1 John 1:7 is NOT cleansing present and future willful sins. When born again, willful sins would be apostasy, and what sacrifice is left? Hebrews 10:26-31 and Hebrews 6.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Ok-All that I have to say to that for now- is you are confusing me. Your OP said this--

That clearly reads as one who is born again no longer has a sin nature which would mean they can not sin are are holy.
THAT is what I'm arguing against. We are capable of sin after being born again. I also was able to stop "big" sin at conversion being changed by God inside. But I could still sin. If I had no sin nature how was that possible? I was made more acutely aware of my sins!
If you were speaking to growing in holiness over our lives that is a different subject.
It also does not go along with the OP statements that inflamed everyone here.
So, was that an error in the OP or what on earth are you trying to teach us?

I saw you weren't understanding some of my points, so went back to one of your earlier posts where the confusion seems to have begun. Romans 1:16-17 shows a statement that few understand. From faith to faith. It has to do with the roles Jesus plays in our faith. Here is the simplest way I can show it.

There are two types of sins:

1. willful sins
2. unintentional sins

1. against LAWS of God, also called sins of the flesh committed before repentance
2. against fruit of the Spirit that one can still commit even while walking in the Spirit. (many fruit/long time process).

1. sins unto death (RCC calls them mortal sins) (has nothing to do with murder or suicide/physical death, but rather the "wages of sin is death."
2. sins not unto death (RCC calls them venial sins)

1. Jesus deals with as the Author of our faith
2. Jesus deals with as the Finisher of our faith

1. righteousness of God revealed as the first "faith"
2. righteousness of God revealed as the second "faith"

1. from glory (glorification) (sanctification is erroneous)
2. to glory (glorification) (sanctification is erroneous)

1. Jesus takes away desire from sin nature making us Righteous/Sinless (sinless of worst type of sin, not trespasses)
2. Jesus matures each fruit of the Spirit as He is in the process of making us "never stumble" 2 Peter 1:10-11, Holy/Perfect (trespasses, not worst type of sin already taken away)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Okay; so we still have a sin nature, but it only manifests itself in "lesser" sins?

Doesn't that trivialize the sins that flow from Pride and Self-Centeredness and a failure to "Love our neighbor as ourselves?"

There are many Christians that still have a sin nature. I know I did for the first 30 years that I was a Christian. But Jesus said, "you MUST be born again of the Spirit. What is born again is our nature. The sin nature came from Satan when Adam willfully sinned and that cursed his descendants with a sin nature. Jesus died to defeat this work of the devil. Belief in Jesus' doctrine of a born again nature requires faith and trust that the old man is crucified and BURIED. You are not dragging a corpse around with you. This is fact if you confess your sins and repent, then ask for the Holy Spirit to indwell and empower you, and have faith that He will do it. Once you experience the infilling of the Holy Spirit, and believe me, you'll know it, and you notice that all desire to commit sins of the flesh have vanished, then you can reckon yourself free from sin, because you are. Reckoning yourself dead to sin is not a lie you tell yourself. God would never ask you to lie. Don't believe those that tell you to reckon yourself free from sin when you have not experienced being born again. It IS an actual experience.

There is no pride or self-centeredness when all your strength came not from yourself, but from God as your Father Daddy. But don't forget to pray to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. I can still remember when I was a Christian in name only and weak as a slug. I have nothing to be proud of. At the time I didn't even trust that God existed, so not one part of my conversion came from me. But the supernaturalness of my experience took away all doubt, and He did it all. Like Paul, he and I boast in the Lord as we can do nothing of ourselves alone.