If sealed with the HS, how does one become UNsealed ?

[Gray_Joy]

Sending personal messages, then sharing them publicly. Some may not like that, but I'm okay with it.

Wouldn't that be against the whole point of, private message?

Is that allowed by the moderators?

 

[ProDeo]

To become UNsealed equates to become UNsaved.
If we are saved & sealed by the Gospel (1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13) taught to Paul by Christ (Gal 1:11-12) then I ask those who believe we can become UNsealed/UNsaved to list the verses where Christ through Paul teaches that.

1Tim 1:19 holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith,
1Tim 1:20 among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Among whom means more than 2.

 

[ScottA]

There's a lesson here (before we just move on).

But how to express it without blame, sounding defensive or trying to sound right, or tit for tat?

It's okay to be wrong, and likewise okay to be right--but things can and do get ugly. Such is life. In fact the Bible is quite ugly in places, it's even one of the reasons some are deterred from believing in God. Surely there is a point to it--even from God. It is reasonable therefore to think that if things get ugly when God is seemingly not in the mix, but also when he is--that because there exists both (if for no other reason)--surely God is always in the mix. So even wandering off in the weeds, down a rabbit hole, or running away, we can either blame ourselves for the ugly clashes that occur in this world, or blame others, or blame God. But what benefit is there, what lesson is there in either of those scenarios if we do not consider that God is not only always in the mix, but has as much as worked these ugly elements into his greater plan of "working all things together for good (for those who love him according to his purpose")? --His purpose. As Jesus even said, "My strength is made perfect in weakness."

If God is always in the mix, could there be a better reason for looking to God, than when things get ugly? Perhaps. But, I mean, surely our question of "Why?" should always be directed to him. Not because he is to blame or is the problem, but because more than likely, we are. But the answer--from God--he has already answered for and of himself, saying "I am." Firstfruits.

 

[Gray_Joy]

There's a lesson here (before we just move on).

But how to express it without blame, sounding defensive or trying to sound right, or tit for tat?

It's okay to be wrong, and likewise okay to be right--but things can and do get ugly. Such is life. In fact the Bible is quite ugly in places, it's even one of the reasons some are deterred from believing in God. Surely there is a point to it--even from God. It is reasonable therefore to think that if things get ugly when God is seemingly not in the mix, but also when he is--that because there exists both (if for no other reason)--surely God is always in the mix. So even wandering off in the weeds, down a rabbit hole, or running away, we can either blame ourselves for the ugly clashes that occur in this world, or blame others, or blame God. But what benefit is there, what lesson is there in either of those scenarios if we do not consider that God is not only always in the mix, but has as much as worked these ugly elements into his greater plan of "working all things together for good (for those who love him according to his purpose")? --His purpose. As Jesus even said, "My strength is made perfect in weakness."

If God is always in the mix, could there be a better reason for looking to God, than when things get ugly? Perhaps. But, I mean, surely our question of "Why?" should always be directed to him. Not because he is to blame or is the problem, but because more than likely, we are. But the answer--from God--he has already answered for and of himself, saying "I am." Firstfruits.

Great words.

I think it is wise to step out of a conversation if it appears unfruitful in building up the church,the whole of God's faithful.

The dark spirit,the opposer to peace,is encouraged and grows in conflict and malignant negativity.
I find it spiritually healthy to step away from such energies.


Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

 

[Jay Ross]

The problem of wanting consensus on a Christian Forum is often its downfall, if we do not learn from the wisdom of others.

I recently read this on Facebook and saw the application to Christian understanding and the need for Christians to really study carefully what we believe so that we get a better understanding of what it means to be a Christian rather than dying on what we think we believe.

Here is the article: -

 

[gpresdo]

Only ....new age religion...folks believe that we are sealed forever while here on earth. God and the Bible tells us different.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Only ....new age religion...folks believe that we are sealed forever while here on earth. God and the Bible tells us different.

The Bible teaches we ARE sealed, list the verses that teach differently please.
Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

[Grailhunter]

But,not any of those passages or opinions behind them show God unseals those in his grace.

You want scriptures......
First off just common sense....
You think you can be an abortion doctor, a child molester, and an assassin, a homosexual, and remain saved.
Paul wrote to Christians in several churches and warned them about sinning....
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [a]miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.”

2nd Corinthians 5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad..

Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

Philippians 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:3-5 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Romans 2:5-6 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each person according to his deeds:

 

[PeterAndroz]

1Tim 1:19 holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith,
1Tim 1:20 among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Among whom means more than 2.

Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 teaches SEALED until the day of redemption.
Please list the verses that teach a believer listed above can become UNsealed b4 the day of redemption.

 

[PeterAndroz]

You want scriptures......
First off just common sense....
You think you can be an abortion doctor, a child molester, and an assassin, a homosexual, and remain saved.
Paul wrote to Christians in several churches and warned them about sinning....
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [a]miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.”

2nd Corinthians 5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad..

Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

Philippians 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:3-5 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Romans 2:5-6 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each person according to his deeds:

Your verses from Paul do not teach that a Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 SEALED UNTIL THE DAY OF REDEMPTION believer can become UNsealed B4 then.
Please list the ones FROM PAUL that do, thank you

 

[Gray_Joy]

You want scriptures......
First off just common sense....
You think you can be an abortion doctor, a child molester, and an assassin, a homosexual, and remain saved.
Paul wrote to Christians in several churches and warned them about sinning....
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [a]miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.”

2nd Corinthians 5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad..

Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

Philippians 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:3-5 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Romans 2:5-6 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who will render to each person according to his deeds:

None of those references tells us those who are sealed by the holy spirit can be unsealed.

I believe this is because the Ephesians 4:30 verse tells us,we are sealed into the day of redemption.

1John 3:24
Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

 

[PeterAndroz]

None of those references tells us those who are sealed by the holy spirit can be unsealed.

I believe this is because the Ephesians 4:30 verse tells us,we are sealed into the day of redemption.

1John 3:24
Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

Because we are Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 sealed we no longer sin ?

 

[doctrox]

Where does Paul teach a SEALED believer can become UNsealed ?
Just the verses D, not your interpretation, tick, tick, tick

As ScottA was intimating, that line of questioning is a non sequitur.

BTW, the "tick, tick, tick..." simply represents the earthly timeline that must yet play out before one goes on to meet his Maker.

The same verse says, “grieve not the holy Spirit of God” ~Ephesians 4:30. A sealed believer can grieve the Spirit. A sealed believer can be corrected. A sealed believer can be chastened. But grieving the Spirit is not the same thing as losing the seal.

Yet we are warned to not grieve the HS precisely because there will be consequences... What do you think just one of those consequences might be? Mere chastisement? Or possibly something more permanent? What is the "max" length of time during which one can "grieve the HS" and still receive eternal life? At that point, is such a one still considered a believer?

Paul also says the Spirit is “the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession” ~Ephesians 1:14. That is God’s pledge. God does not put His seal on His people and then act like His own promise depends on the unstable grip of man.

Yep. Some ole story: God's end is solid; we have his unfailing assurance. But it's our end of the deal that is the salient point.

So the question is not, “Can God lose someone He sealed?” Scripture gives no such teaching.

The question is, “Have I truly believed the gospel of Jesus Christ, or am I only wearing Christian language?”

God keeps His own. But His own hear His voice and follow Him.

Even those who "have truly believed" can fall away... Once again, the OSAS heresy awaits the unwary.

I recently read this on Facebook and saw the application to Christian understanding and the need for Christians to really study carefully what we believe so that we get a better understanding of what it means to be a Christian rather than dying on what we think we believe.

and

What does it mean to be "sealed"?
What's the definition of "sealed"?

This is the better course of action.

I also believe that people today can walk away from God. I do not hold to the doctrine commonly called once saved, always saved. I have no hostility toward those who do — I simply do not personally believe it. Scripture repeatedly shows that faithfulness is a daily choice. “If anyone would come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me” (Luke 9:23). Every person must decide whether they will acknowledge and love God and love their neighbor as themselves (Matthew 22:37–39). It really is that straightforward.

Yep.

I personally don’t believe the sealing applies to us in the way some people think it does. Others may see it differently, and that’s fine. As for me, I don’t need to be sealed for a day that was never meant for me. One day I’ll die like everyone else, and my hope is simply to remain faithful until the end, as the work is already finished.

Yep.

The Bible teaches we ARE sealed, list the verses that teach differently please.

and

Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 teaches SEALED until the day of redemption.
Please list the verses that teach a believer listed above can become UNsealed b4 the day of redemption.

Again, we must go back and perform the necessary due diligence re: the meaning of the word "sealed." Not difficult to do. There are only 27 appearances of the word "sealed" - an easy read.

The problem of wanting consensus on a Christian Forum is often its downfall, if we do not learn from the wisdom of others.

Indeed.

O provoke not the blessed Spirit of God to withdraw his presence and his gracious influences from you! It is a good reason why we should not grieve him that by him we are sealed unto the day of redemption. There is to be a day of redemption; the body is to be redeemed from the power of the grave at the resurrection-day, and then God's people will be delivered from all the effects of sin, as well as from all sin and misery, which they are not till rescued out of the grave: and then their full and complete happiness commences. All true believers are sealed to that day. God has distinguished them from others, having set his mark upon them; and he gives them the earnest and assurance of a joyful and glorious resurrection; and the Spirit of God is the seal. Wherever that blessed Spirit is as a sanctifier, he is the earnest of all the joys and glories of the redemption-day; and we should be undone should God take away his Holy Spirit from us. - Matthew Henry

 

[Stumpmaster]

Christ through Paul teaches how we receive the HS.
Where does Christ through Paul teach that a SEALED believer can become UNsealed ?
Verses please :)
.....
Eph 1:13 :-
In whom ye also trusted,
after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation:
in whom also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30 :-
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God,
whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

No-one actually saved, sealed, and delivered wants to be unsaved, unsealed, and undelivered, and God doesn't want the latter for them, so it doesn't happen.

Read all of Romans 8 if you need to

 

[doctrox]

No-one actually saved, sealed, and delivered wants to be unsaved, unsealed, and undelivered...

...again, the seal is an "earnest" - the HS 'down payment' on our inheritance. In the meantime, we must not default on our end of the deal.

... the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession (Eph. 1:4).

FWIW, the Old Testament relates occasions in which God's Spirit left someone, such as King Saul (1 Sam. 16:14) or Samson (Jud. 16:20).

Read all of Romans 8 if you need to

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. (Rom. 8:22-23)

 

[Gray_Joy]

Because we are Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 sealed we no longer sin ?

We can still disappoint God. But, his indwelling spirit by which we are sealed convicts us to realize that transgression when we were not aware before coming to him. And we repent.


Galatians 5:16-17

1John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 3:6
No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

 

[MatthewG]

@doctrox why does it matter to me?

I’m strange to most people anyway.

I don’t need to be sealed for a day never meant for me.

Teaching: Living Beyond the Fear of Sealing — Walking in the Finished Kingdom

One of the most important truths for believers today is understanding what warnings in Scripture were for the first‑century generation and what truths apply to us now. Many Christians still carry fear about “being sealed,” “surviving the Day of the Lord,” or “being ready for the end.” But Jesus...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[doctrox]

@doctrox why does it matter to me?

...because you are fearfully and wonderfully made, created in God's image and most precious to him. Eternal destinies are on the line. And as such, you are the #1 target of the destroyer and thus are in need of a Saviour who promises to fight alongside you in your battles as an overcomer. Satan already has the unbelievers; he is after the believers.

We need all the help we can get.

Teaching: Living Beyond the Fear of Sealing — Walking in the Finished Kingdom​

I read it. It's a good compilation. However, concerning the OP, the danger, as I see it, is in equating sealing with salvation.

 

[MatthewG]

...because you are fearfully and wonderfully made, created in God's image and most precious to him. Eternal destinies are on the line. And as such, you are the #1 target of the destroyer and thus are in need of a Saviour who promises to fight alongside you in your battles as an overcomer.

We need all the help we can get.

Okay Doc.

Maybe that’s all it is. I genuinely care when it comes to people and the danger of false hope. It’s hard watching folks who don’t seem to care at all, and even harder when others keep repeating that “half the world is going to hell in a handbasket.”

But Yahavah is good. And even I, being evil, know how to give good gifts — and that alone tells me something about His character. As Yeshua said, “If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask Him” (Matthew 7:11).

I trust His goodness more than the fear people try to spread. Yahavah is not careless with His creation, and He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

So I’ll keep caring, even when others don’t. And I’ll keep trusting that His goodness is greater than the doom people like to preach.

You keep going too, fighting the good fight of faith, Doc, appreciate it.

 

[Grailhunter]

Your verses from Paul do not teach that a Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 SEALED UNTIL THE DAY OF REDEMPTION believer can become UNsealed B4 then.
Please list the ones FROM PAUL that do, thank you

Just very clear scriptures that tell you what will send you to hell.