Lambano
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Reason for The Crusades explained
- Thread starter Debp
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“Certainly it would take much time to repair the damage which had been inflicted from the warmongers.”
(Ergun Mehmet Caner & Emir Fethi Caner, Christian Jihad, p. 104)
The Christian speaker in the video (see post #1) had an opportunity to repair the damage but didn’t take advantage of it. Did the Muslim trap him? No. The Muslim exploited him.
Christianity is the religion of peace
The Christian speaker in the video doesn’t believe that is true. Neither do you. Neither do @Armour of God and @NayborBear. I do.
In this thread (and others) I’ve repeatedly been accused of being a Muslim apologist / sympathizer.
In this thread (and others) I’ve vigorously defended ”Christianity is the religion of peace” against violent Christian and Muslim assaults against it. (And so have others.)
It takes much time - and a great deal of patient effort - to repair the damage.
P.S.
Pacifism isn’t passive. Have my interlocutors still not learned that lesson?
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Returning to the video, which I‘ve done so many times now - but less and less beyond the first 25 seconds.
“The question was, ‘Am I saying that with Christianity comes peace?’
No. I’m not.
I’m saying that with Christ comes peace.”
Pause. This is the critical point in the video.
If it’s true - and it is - that with Christ comes peace, then something has gone terribly wrong with Christianity.
With Christ comes peace.
Hold on to that. Defend that to your dying breath.
With Christianity came violence.
That’s the betrayal of Christ and his way that the Christian sources I’ve drawn upon spoke about.
With Christ comes peace.
With Christianity came peace; and it was, and it is, persecuted by those duped by the devil. That’s what the Christian speaker should have said to the Muslim.
“The question was, ‘Am I saying that with Christianity comes peace?’
No. I’m not.
I’m saying that with Christ comes peace.”
Pause. This is the critical point in the video.
If it’s true - and it is - that with Christ comes peace, then something has gone terribly wrong with Christianity.
With Christ comes peace.
Hold on to that. Defend that to your dying breath.
With Christianity came violence.
That’s the betrayal of Christ and his way that the Christian sources I’ve drawn upon spoke about.
With Christ comes peace.
With Christianity came peace; and it was, and it is, persecuted by those duped by the devil. That’s what the Christian speaker should have said to the Muslim.
“The question was, ‘Am I saying that with Christianity comes peace?’
No. I’m not.”
Pause.
In his place, I would have said, “Yes, I am.”
He couldn’t say it because he doesn’t believe it. Neither does the Muslim.
No. I’m not.”
Pause.
In his place, I would have said, “Yes, I am.”
He couldn’t say it because he doesn’t believe it. Neither does the Muslim.
Muslims (and Christians who agree with them) need to be persuaded that with Christianity came peace.
“Another parable He put forth to them, saying: ‘The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain has sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.”
(Matthew 13:24-25, NKJV)
This parable follows on the heels of the parable of the sower. The good seed of that parable is the gospel of peace. That is how with Christianity came peace.
***
“We counsel violence.” - the tares
“We counsel peace.“ - the wheat
The tares then say to the wheat, “You are fiercely anti-Scriptural.”
I say to the tares and to the Muslims, look at the New Testament and look at the first three hundred years of Christian history. That is Christianity that lives “With Christ comes peace.” That is Christianity which teaches, preaches and practices what Jesus and the apostles taught, preached and practiced.
“But what about the Crusades?” the tares and the Muslims ask.
I’ve answered them time and time again.
”Kill him!” comes, or may come, the reply. Or more benignly, “Ignore him.”
Many a man who taught, preached and lived the gospel of peace has been confronted with that threat and responded to it the Messiah’s way.
With Jesus the Messiah came peace, and he was rejected, despised, persecuted, tortured, and killed.
What happened to Jesus will happen, to some degree, to his followers.
The way the wheat responds to the treatment they receive at the hands of their enemies is the way that Jesus and the apostles responded.
“Another parable He put forth to them, saying: ‘The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain has sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.”
(Matthew 13:24-25, NKJV)
This parable follows on the heels of the parable of the sower. The good seed of that parable is the gospel of peace. That is how with Christianity came peace.
***
“We counsel violence.” - the tares
“We counsel peace.“ - the wheat
The tares then say to the wheat, “You are fiercely anti-Scriptural.”
I say to the tares and to the Muslims, look at the New Testament and look at the first three hundred years of Christian history. That is Christianity that lives “With Christ comes peace.” That is Christianity which teaches, preaches and practices what Jesus and the apostles taught, preached and practiced.
“But what about the Crusades?” the tares and the Muslims ask.
I’ve answered them time and time again.
”Kill him!” comes, or may come, the reply. Or more benignly, “Ignore him.”
Many a man who taught, preached and lived the gospel of peace has been confronted with that threat and responded to it the Messiah’s way.
With Jesus the Messiah came peace, and he was rejected, despised, persecuted, tortured, and killed.
What happened to Jesus will happen, to some degree, to his followers.
The way the wheat responds to the treatment they receive at the hands of their enemies is the way that Jesus and the apostles responded.
“The three subsequent Crusades accomplished nothing more than the further blurring of the original purposes for which the Crusades were called and any distinction between Christian and nonbeliever.”
(Ergun Mehmet Caner & Emir Fethi Caner, Christian Jihad, p. 130)
Bold is mine.
“Blurring … any distinction between Christian and nonbeliever.”
That should never happen. Defending what should never happen must never happen.
(Ergun Mehmet Caner & Emir Fethi Caner, Christian Jihad, p. 130)
Bold is mine.
“Blurring … any distinction between Christian and nonbeliever.”
That should never happen. Defending what should never happen must never happen.
The way of Muhammad is the way of the sword, not the way of peace.
Which is to say, the way of Muhammad is not the way of Jesus.
“If we truly want to be relevant today, we must proclaim the ancient gospel.” - Burk Parsons
The “ancient gospel” is the gospel of peace.
“Enough of this. it’s impractical. Ignore that man.”
Before you adopt that posture, test the spirit.
The “ancient gospel” is the gospel of peace.
“Enough of this. it’s impractical. Ignore that man.”
Before you adopt that posture, test the spirit.
“Ponder This
As followers of Christ, we are God’s agents of peace. You are an ambassador. …”
(Love Worth Finding Ministries, “You Are God’s Agent of Peace”)
www.lwf.org
Bold is mine.
Compare and contrast that with this -> “You are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”
Please ponder this: Are those the words of an ambassador of peace? Are those the words of God’s agent of peace?
”We counsel violence.”
Who’s ambassador is that?
***
Followers of Jesus counsel peace.
The Muslim doesn’t believe that is true. Given the Crusades, why should he?
Give him reason to believe that it is true, ambassadors of peace. That is what the Great Commission is all about.
As followers of Christ, we are God’s agents of peace. You are an ambassador. …”
(Love Worth Finding Ministries, “You Are God’s Agent of Peace”)
Daily Devotional: You Are God’s Agent… | Love Worth Finding Ministries
Christ has committed to us the ministry of reconciliation. The greatest thing you can do is receive the peace Jesus Christ made on the cross. Let the…
www.lwf.org
Bold is mine.
Compare and contrast that with this -> “You are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”
Please ponder this: Are those the words of an ambassador of peace? Are those the words of God’s agent of peace?
”We counsel violence.”
Who’s ambassador is that?
***
Followers of Jesus counsel peace.
The Muslim doesn’t believe that is true. Given the Crusades, why should he?
Give him reason to believe that it is true, ambassadors of peace. That is what the Great Commission is all about.
The same as it is to non-Islamic warmongers -> Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, Son of the living God.
The power of his word / seed / gospel is able to transform their minds and stop that behavior.
When that seed is snatched away by the devil (see the parable of the sower) then Romans 13.
Wrangler
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Confusing behavior with paths. It is not cojones but foolishness to follow someone else’s path. The entire basis of WWJD applies his behavioral principles and spirit to new paths.
My message to unbelievers: Follow Jesus’ path. It’s the path which leads to life in the age to come.
“Do you remember the parable of the seed that Jesus told? … a massive dose of evangelistic encouragement. …
Think of it! One more treasure - a priceless human being - might be snatched from the clutches of a horrendous, lifeless eternity because of your work. So go! Go right now and bear witness. Sow the seed. … Risk your life for this, and know that you will never regret your decision.”
(Bill Hybels, Just Walk Across the Room, p. 42)
The seed way, not the sword way, is the Messiah’s way for his followers to make disciples of all nations.
Think of it! One more treasure - a priceless human being - might be snatched from the clutches of a horrendous, lifeless eternity because of your work. So go! Go right now and bear witness. Sow the seed. … Risk your life for this, and know that you will never regret your decision.”
(Bill Hybels, Just Walk Across the Room, p. 42)
The seed way, not the sword way, is the Messiah’s way for his followers to make disciples of all nations.
I’ve mentioned returning often to watch the video in post #1. I doubt that many others participating in this thread have. Go back to the video with me. This time, don’t watch it.
What is the title of the video?
“Muslims have MELTDOWN After Learning These Historical Facts l Crusades”
What was the Christian speaker’s goal? Did he want his Muslim listeners to have “MELTDOWN”? Is he pleased that they did? What did he accomplish?
“MELTDOWN”
That’s the word in the title that was emphasized. That’s the word I’ve been thinking about this morning .
Did the (hoped for?) meltdown soften the hearts or harden the hearts of the Muslims? Did it make them more receptive or less receptive to seeing, hearing, understanding the word / seed of the gospel?
What is the title of the video?
“Muslims have MELTDOWN After Learning These Historical Facts l Crusades”
What was the Christian speaker’s goal? Did he want his Muslim listeners to have “MELTDOWN”? Is he pleased that they did? What did he accomplish?
“MELTDOWN”
That’s the word in the title that was emphasized. That’s the word I’ve been thinking about this morning .
Did the (hoped for?) meltdown soften the hearts or harden the hearts of the Muslims? Did it make them more receptive or less receptive to seeing, hearing, understanding the word / seed of the gospel?
“You are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”
This isn’t and never has been a requirement for being a follower of Jesus.
It has serious spiritual implications that, for whatever reason, the one teaching it isn’t telling you about.
“For many veterans who have been forced to make the decision to kill in war, the memory of what has happened may last far longer than the milliseconds it took to fire their rifle or launch their missile. As veterans they carry the shame and guilt of what they have done for the rest of their lives.”
(Murray Davis, “The Killer Veteran - The Spiritual Implications for Veterans who Kill in War”)
journal-veterans-studies.org
I urge you to read the article, published in the Journal of Veterans Studies
I don’t want to see this happen to anyone, but I have seen it happen. Jesus doesn’t lead his followers to it; he leads them away from it.
***
I watched the video this morning. Major Dick Winters. Many will recognize the name. If you have time, give it a watch.
This isn’t and never has been a requirement for being a follower of Jesus.
It has serious spiritual implications that, for whatever reason, the one teaching it isn’t telling you about.
“For many veterans who have been forced to make the decision to kill in war, the memory of what has happened may last far longer than the milliseconds it took to fire their rifle or launch their missile. As veterans they carry the shame and guilt of what they have done for the rest of their lives.”
(Murray Davis, “The Killer Veteran - The Spiritual Implications for Veterans who Kill in War”)
The Killer Veteran – The Spiritual Implications for Veterans who Kill in War | Journal of Veterans Studies
journal-veterans-studies.org
I urge you to read the article, published in the Journal of Veterans Studies
I don’t want to see this happen to anyone, but I have seen it happen. Jesus doesn’t lead his followers to it; he leads them away from it.
***
I watched the video this morning. Major Dick Winters. Many will recognize the name. If you have time, give it a watch.
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Wrangler
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Except millions of Christians over the centuries showed otherwise, including the Crusaders. Jesus said to buy a sword. Did you do that much?
Jesus will return armed (Rev 19:15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword) and not merely be ready but will kill. He will rule them with a rod of iron doesn’t mean violent-free. Are you a Jesus follower or not?
What they showed is that they did not / are not following the teaching of Jesus and the apostles in regard to how to respond to enemies.
It’s the small number of Christians who have responded to their enemies the way Jesus and the apostles taught and did.
Jesus did not instruct every follower to buy a sword. As I demonstrated earlier in the thread, the majority of Christians have not purchased swords (i.e. weapons of the world) for any reason.
I agree.
I’m a Jesus follower.
“We [Jesus followers] do not use the weapons of the world.” - the apostle Paul, a Jesus follower whom you are teaching against
Is there any member of the forum who was told by their pastor that in order to become a follower of Jesus he or she must be “armed, ready to kill”?
If so, I would like to hear from you. If you will provide contact information for the pastor who told you that, I’ll use the information to speak with him about it.
Most churches these days have websites which include “Statement of Faith” information. A link to any church which contains a requirement for members to be “armed, ready to kill” would be appreciated. AI doesn’t know of any.
@Wrangler has directed our attention to the Crusaders. The Roman Catholic Church, however, does not teach that in order to be or become a follower of Jesus you must be “armed, ready to kill.”
Again, AI was not able to locate any Church, anywhere in the world, that has that teaching.
A legitimate objection might be lodged against my comment that “AI doesn't know of any.”
AI is rapidly gathering new information. How long has it been since I checked? Isn’t it possible that AI knows now what it didn’t know then about the matter?
I just ran a query, asking the following question -
”Is there any Church, anywhere in the world, which teaches ‘You are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill’?”
AI Overview responded -
“No mainstream Christian or established church anywhere in the world teaches that you are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed and ready to kill.”
Bold is AI’s.
@Wrangler as of 4:00 p.m. EST today, AI doesn’t know about your church. Why is that? How could that be?
AI is rapidly gathering new information. How long has it been since I checked? Isn’t it possible that AI knows now what it didn’t know then about the matter?
I just ran a query, asking the following question -
”Is there any Church, anywhere in the world, which teaches ‘You are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill’?”
AI Overview responded -
“No mainstream Christian or established church anywhere in the world teaches that you are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed and ready to kill.”
Bold is AI’s.
@Wrangler as of 4:00 p.m. EST today, AI doesn’t know about your church. Why is that? How could that be?
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