Judgement Seat of Christ for who ?

[Spiritual Israelite]

Besides the obvious....
Do I have to make a list.

You've seen the miscommunication we've had, so, yes, do whatever you need to do to make your beliefs clear, so I don't have to guess.

Acts 2:38
Participate in the Bread and Wine Ritual.
Love God and one another.
Help one another.
Be good and do good.

Are you not aware that scripture teaches that we are not saved by good works?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Notice here that good works are what God prepared for those who become saved by grace through faith. So, we are saved by God's grace through putting our faith in Christ as our personal Lord and Savior (Romans 10:9-13) but we are not saved by our works. What you're saying contradicts this because you are saying we have to do certain good works to be saved. No, the good works reflect the kind of faith that we have, but we don't do them in order to earn salvation. Otherwise, salvation would not be by God's grace and we could boast of saving ourselves.

Paul taught the same thing here:

Romans 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

 

[Grailhunter]

Are you not aware that scripture teaches that we are not saved by good works?

Oh my gosh!
How many times do we have to cover this!
Yeshua saves not good works or good deeds, but if you do not help one another that can send you to Hell.
Reference the story of the Sheep and the Goats.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Oh my gosh!
How many times do we have to cover this!

I've never talked to you about this before, so why are you acting as if you and I have talked about this topic before?

Yeshua saves not good works or good deeds, but if you do not help one another that can send you to Hell.
Reference the story of the Sheep and the Goats.

Can you address what I said about what Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:8-10 and Romans 4:1-8? Can you not see that the good works are prepared for us AFTER we have been saved by grace through faith? The good works reflect what kind of faith we have, but they don't save us. Do you accept what Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:8-10 and Romans 4:1-8 or not?

 

[PeterAndroz]

I've never talked to you about this before, so why are you acting as if you and I have talked about this topic before?


Can you address what I said about what Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:8-10 and Romans 4:1-8? Can you not see that the good works are prepared for us AFTER we have been saved by grace through faith? The good works reflect what kind of faith we have, but they don't save us. Do you accept what Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:8-10 and Romans 4:1-8 or not?

Yes, saved/sealed should then show a change in a persons life.
eg
Fred was a gambler, drunkard, womanizer, brawler before he trusted the Gospel
Fred now drinks less, gambles less, not so many fights & sticks with one girl and goes to Church
Is he now saved&sealed according to the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 Gospel taught by Paul ?

 

[Grailhunter]

I've never talked to you about this before, so why are you acting as if you and I have talked about this topic before?


Can you address what I said about what Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:8-10 and Romans 4:1-8? Can you not see that the good works are prepared for us AFTER we have been saved by grace through faith? The good works reflect what kind of faith we have, but they don't save us. Do you accept what Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:8-10 and Romans 4:1-8 or not?

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2"8-10

Again and again.....Good works or Good Deeds do not save us, but sin can send us to Hell and not helping people can send us to Hell;

4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”
Romans 4"1-8
For one thing it is a unique circumstance and another Old Testament. We are not saved by Good Deeds.

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:8-10

Of course I agree with this. But it is referring to how we are saved not what we can do that will send us to Hell.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2"8-10

Again and again.....Good works or Good Deeds do not save us, but sin can send us to Hell and not helping people can send us to Hell;

4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”
Romans 4"1-8
For one thing it is a unique circumstance and another Old Testament. We are not saved by Good Deeds.

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Ephesians 2:8-10

Of course I agree with this. But it is referring to how we are saved not what we can do that will send us to Hell.

If we are saved by grace through faith and not by good works, as Paul taught, then how can we lose salvation by bad works/sins? It would have to be by way of losing our faith, right? Since that's how we become saved in the first place. That's what seems to be described in passages like Hebrews 3:12-14.

 

[Grailhunter]

If we are saved by grace through faith and not by good works, as Paul taught, then how can we lose salvation by bad works/sins?

Because the scriptures say so.
And Paul also indicates that there are sins that can prevent you from going to heaven.
And Yeshua said if you to not help one another you can go heaven
I gave you these scriptures....do you want them again.

 

[PeterAndroz]

If we are saved by grace through faith and not by good works, as Paul taught, then how can we lose salvation by bad works/sins? It would have to be by way of losing our faith, right? Since that's how we become saved in the first place. That's what seems to be described in passages like Hebrews 3:12-14.

and that's a question that remains on my mind.
If the condition to be saved is faith/believe/trust then that faith/belief/trust must be ongoing.
If a person stops having faith/believing/trusting the Gospel then why are they still saved ?
Some use 2 Tim 2:13 as to why they remain saved but that doesn't make sense to me
13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because the scriptures say so.
And Paul also indicates that there are sins that can prevent you from going to heaven.
And Yeshua said if you to not help one another you can go heaven
I gave you these scriptures....do you want them again.

You need to interpret the scriptures in a way that doesn't contradict other scriptures like what I showed. But, just do what you want. I've shown you the scriptures and now you have to decide if you want to have a doctrine based on all of scripture of just certain cherry picked scriptures that are taken out of context and cause contradictions with other scriptures.

 

[Grailhunter]

You need to interpret the scriptures in a way that doesn't contradict other scriptures like what I showed.

I say the same thing to you.

 

[Grailhunter]

I've shown you the scriptures and now you have to decide if you want to have a doctrine based on all of scripture of just certain cherry picked scriptures that are taken out of context and cause contradictions with other scriptures.

LOL HA HA
That is exactly what you are doing. You should name your beliefs cherry picked. I consider the scriptures as a whole.
And the one theme that is overwhelmingly true, Yeshua is not the God of sin. You cannot sin all you want and go to Heaven and so sin can cause a Christian to be judged to Hell. No evil in Heaven, there is a place for that.

 

[Gray_Joy]

and that's a question that remains on my mind.
If the condition to be saved is faith/believe/trust then that faith/belief/trust must be ongoing.
If a person stops having faith/believing/trusting the Gospel then why are they still saved ?
Some use 2 Tim 2:13 as to why they remain saved but that doesn't make sense to me
13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Probably because God calls us to his grace. Unless he calls we cannot know.
No one comes to Jesus unless the father calls them.

And, because we believe ,we are sealed,indwelt by holy spirit after God called us into his grace,we remain in him and God remains in us.

If we fall out of faith, God,who chose us to come into his grace,will not lose faith in us.
Because God knew us before the womb. He knows we are eternally his because he called us into his grace and faith. We did not do this ourselves. So,we cannot lose him ourselves. As Jesus said.

No one shall take us out of his hand.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Probably because God calls us to his grace. Unless he calls we cannot know.
No one comes to Jesus unless the father calls them.

And, because we believe ,we are sealed,indwelt by holy spirit after God called us into his grace,we remain in him and God remains in us.

If we fall out of faith, God,who chose us to come into his grace,will not lose faith in us.
Because God knew us before the womb. He knows we are eternally his because he called us into his grace and faith. We did not do this ourselves. So,we cannot lose him ourselves. As Jesus said.

No one shall take us out of his hand.

"""""Probably because God calls us to his grace. Unless he calls we cannot know.
Do you believe GOD chooses who will or won't be saved ?
If so then that contradicts :-
1 Tim 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[rwb]

You believe the 12 taught the same Gospel as Paul.
Paul - To be saved, are works required in the Gospel 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 ?
Mat - To be saved, are works required in Matt 25:-
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

It does not say good works are required to be eternally saved. If good works plus faith is being taught, why did those who did good not realize the works they did would save them? The righteous were not taught it was their good works that saved them. Why, if we are saved by good works plus faith? Because born again believers do good works BECAUSE they have been born again, and with a new heart and love for Christ, we do these works of mercy out of that love even without realizing we are doing good.

Matthew 25:37-40 (KJV) Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Neither Christ or Paul teach good works are required for man to be born again and enter into eternal life. Because when we do good toward those in need, "the least of these" we have done them unto Christ.

 

[rwb]

"""""Probably because God calls us to his grace. Unless he calls we cannot know.
Do you believe GOD chooses who will or won't be saved ?
If so then that contradicts :-
1 Tim 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

When are the names of all who will be eternally saved written in the book of life? When did God choose those who are eternally saved? What does the Bible say about the elect of God?

 

[Gray_Joy]

"""""Probably because God calls us to his grace. Unless he calls we cannot know.
Do you believe GOD chooses who will or won't be saved ?
If so then that contradicts :-
1 Tim 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Not if we understand thosepassages in their proper context. As in,all whom God calls are those whom he wills would be saved.

God's words cannot contradict themselves. I think if we realize that we will study carefully to be sure any seeming contradiction is our mistake. Not God's
That's my view.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL HA HA
That is exactly what you are doing. You should name your beliefs cherry picked. I consider the scriptures as whole.
And the one theme that is overwhelmingly true, Yeshua is not the God of sin. You cannot sin all you want and go to Heaven and so sin can cause a Christian to be judged to Hell. No evil in Heaven, there is a place for that.

LOL. HA HA HA. I never said we can just sin all we want. We're not on the same page here, so I have no interest in continuing this discussion.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When are the names of all who will be eternally saved written in the book of life?

That started with the foundation of the world and has continued since then, but you would probably say all of their names were written in the book of life already before the foundation of the world. That's not what scripture teaches. Also, if that was true, it would not be possible for someone's name to be blotted out of the book of life, but it is.

Psalm 69:28 (NASB) Add guilt to their guilt, And may they not come into Your righteousness. 28 May they be wiped out of the book of life,
And may they not be recorded with the righteous.

Revelation 13:8 (NASB) All who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered.

Revelation 3:5 (KJV) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 22:19 (KJV) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not if we understand thosepassages in their proper context. As in,all whom God calls are those whom he wills would be saved.

God's words cannot contradict themselves. I think if we realize that we will study carefully to be sure any seeming contradiction is our mistake. Not God's
That's my view.

Are you sure you understand 1 Timothy 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9 in their proper context?

Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’

Do you think that God takes pleasure in the death of any wicked person and doesn't want all of the wicked to repent?

 

[Gray_Joy]

Are you sure you understand 1 Timothy 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9 in their proper context?

Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’

Do you think that God takes pleasure in the death of any wicked person and doesn't want all of the wicked to repent?

If he did, he wouldn't have said what he said in the New Testament.

Everyone everywhere would be saved.