Judgement Seat of Christ for who ?

[Spiritual Israelite]

We have eternal spiritual life now, from the moment we are born again, and because we have ETERNAL life now through the Spirit of Christ in us, we are now waiting for and anticipating immortal/incorruptible physical life that shall be at His coming when the last trumpet sounds. It is at Christ's coming again that believers shall either be resurrected from the grave our body changed from mortal to immortal, or if we are still physically alive at His coming again, we shall be changed from mortal body to immortal and incorruptible body and together we shall all meet the Lord in the air.

Then at the GWTJ we who are eternally alive through immortal/incorruptible body will be at the right hand of God, not to be judged but to inherit the everlasting Kingdom of God prepared for us on the new earth to live with Christ forever.


Yes, we are spiritually alive possessing eternal life from the moment we have been born again. You say I continue to bring up the doctrine of eternal security through Christ, but it is you who keeps saying the eternal life we have in Christ is NOT really eternal until our body is changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible. Have you not read that life is of the spirit and the flesh profits nothing? You want to make eternal life dependent upon the flesh, and our obedience while clothed in mortal, corruptible body destined to die. How are believers faithful unto death? Have you not read that the obedience we display in this mortal flesh, is done by the power of God working in us? What have we that has not been granted us through the Word by grace of God working in us?

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 (KJV) For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Philippians 2:12-13 (KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

John 3:27 (KJV) John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

2 Corinthians 3:5 (KJV) Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;



You quote these verses thinking to change statements of FACT to conditional statements that are dependent upon our faithfulness while clothed in mortal bodies of death.

The man who does not endure temptation does not love the Lord; the words are spoken to them that love Him. James is not saying what you imagine, that the crown of life is dependent upon a believer's good works in the flesh until the day they physically die. Because James also says that man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed by his fleshly desires which shall bring forth death to them who know NOT the Lord.

James 1:13-16 (KJV) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren.

The statement of FACT stands "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Life that shall be of immortal/incorruptible body made alive through our eternal spirit that shall come with Christ.

Trying to make John's statement of FACT conditioned upon our faithfulness unto death doesn't work for you either. Because John is writing these words to those who are overcomers and shall not be hurt of the second death. That is those who already possess everlasting eternal spiritual life through the Spirit of Christ in us. We have already partaken of the tree of life, and the second death NOW cannot hurt us.

Revelation 2:7 (KJV) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:10-11 (KJV) Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

1 John 5:4-5 (KJV) For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Revelation 21:7 (KJV) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

I see that you ignored everything I said and you're childishly trying to change the topic of the thread despite my saying that I'm not interested in having a OSAS vs. NOSAS debate with you here right now. If you started a thread with that topic on the General Theology forum or the Soteriology forum I'd be glad to discuss it with you there. If you want to get back on topic here and discuss whether or not the unsaved will appear before the judgment seat of Christ and whether the judgment seat of Christ and judgment throne of Christ, as portrayed in Matthew 25:31-46, are the same, then I'm willing to discuss that.

I gave you the Scripture, Christ left this earth and received the Kingdom of God that is now spiritually in heaven. He did not leave nor forsake us, because He has come again to all who have been born again through His Spirit in us. Do you not believe that when Christ ascended into heaven and received the Kingdom He returned to us through His Spirit in us just as He promised He would?

Of course! Hello? No Christian would deny that. But, that is not the context of Luke 19:11-27. The context of Luke 19:11-27 is in relation to Him returning and not only giving rewards to believers, but punishing unbelievers. How can you not see that? You are in a tiny minority on so many things that you believe. Are you really that arrogant that you think you understand these things while a vast majority of Christians do not?

Only those in denial can read these following verses without understanding that Christ, after leaving this world, came again to us through His Spirit to give us assurance that He would never leave nor forsake us because His Spirit will be in us until our body is raised and changed to immortal and incorruptible body of flesh.

John 14:18 (KJV) I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 15:26 (KJV) But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 14:16-21 (KJV) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Strawman argument alert! Where did I say anything at all to suggest that I don't understand that these verses are talking about His Spirit dwelling in us? Nowhere! Where in Luke 19:11-27 does it talk about the Holy Spirit dwelling in us? What about verse 27 that has unbelievers being punished when Jesus returns? Is that not exactly what is indicated in Matthew 25:31-46 as well? Why would you not think that Luke 19:11-27 has the same timing as Matthew 25:31-46?

 

[rwb]

I agree with you about our being assured eternal life. That's what Jesus teaches us.
John 5:24: "Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

Yes, the Bible is abundantly clear when speaking to us of eternal life! When man possesses eternal life in Christ, we have already come through the JSC in this life. When we are called before the GWT we shall not be judged again but shall be there to receive our inheritance!

 

[Grailhunter]

LOL. I'm apparently speaking to someone who needs to humble himself and learn how to be teachable in a spiritual sense. I'm not impressed with your education even a tiny bit. It means nothing if you've not actually learned what the Bible teaches, which appears to be the case. You seem to be lacking in spiritual discernment, which is what matters.

Well then, lets stop talking.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The rewards we receive in this life for being faithful unto Christ is better understood as receiving BLESSINGS from God.

No, that's not true. You are changing the text to fit your doctrine. You see the rewards we receive in this life as relating to the judgment seat of Christ, right? I disagree, but let's just assume that's true for the sake of argument. What does Paul say?

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

He clearly indicates that what we receive is based on "the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad". So, we are rewarded for the good things we do and the bad things result in loss, but we're still saved, as Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 3:15.

What you're saying is that God gives out blessings regardless of what people do, but Paul said the things people will receive are based on what they do. So, REWARDS is the correct term, not BLESSINGS. Blessings are things that God does for us that are not based on anything we do. That's not what is described in 2 Corinthians 5:10. And, to be clear, that verse isn't talking about receiving eternal life because of good works, which is not possible (Ephesians 2:8-9), but rather rewards for the things we do after being saved, which would be the good works that God has for us to do after we become saved (Ephesians 2:10). Whether you like it or not, we will be judged by how well we obey God during this lifetime. Not in the sense of that determining our eternal destiny and being the deciding factor in whether we inherit eternal life or not, but rather in determining our level of eternal reward. That each believer will receive a different level of reward is clearly portrayed in the parable Jesus told in Luke 19:11-27. One person received authority over 10 cities (whatever that represents in reality), another over 5 cities and so on.

We don't do good to earn the blessings from God, we do good works because we have already received His greatest blessing that is EVERLASTING ETERNAL life through the Spirit of Christ in us that can never be lost! We work because He works in and through us to do His good pleasure!

I agree that our motivation to serve and obey God should not be for earning rewards, but it just so happens that He wants to reward people for being good and faithful servants, which is why we see this in scripture...

Matthew 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’

By the way, the parable in Matthew 25:14-30 is very similar to the one in Luke 19:11-27 and it's undeniably in relation to the second coming if Christ. What is indicated in the text above is that believers will be rewarded when the Lord returns "after a long time" and each believer receives a different level of reward and is told "Well done, good and faithful servant". If we don't actually receive a reward for what we do, how can we make any sense out of the above passage?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well then, lets stop talking.

Yes, let's stop talking just because I'm not bowing down to you while you're up on your high horse, propped up by your pride over your education. Okay then.

 

[Gray_Joy]

Yes, the Bible is abundantly clear when speaking to us of eternal life! When man possesses eternal life in Christ, we have already come through the JSC in this life. When we are called before the GWT we shall not be judged again but shall be there to receive our inheritance!

I want to ask you this because of what I read in your back and forth with @Spiritual Israelite .
Do you hold to the teachings of the prosperity doctrine?

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes, let's stop talking just because I'm not bowing down to you while you're up on your high horse, propped up by your pride over your education. Okay then.

You were accusing me of needing to learn. If you cannot talk without being rude, you are too stupid to talk to me.
And my education? I would not discuss it in detail because I would get accused of bragging. I started reading the Bible when I was six years old and started college when I was 15 years old.

 

[Gray_Joy]

Yes, let's stop talking just because I'm not bowing down to you while you're up on your high horse, propped up by your pride over your education. Okay then.

Pray.

I've stopped talking to a couple of people here.
I do not believe the church, we being the container of the holy Spirit of Christ,guided by him,and of course saved by him,would come together to discuss his message and then speak to one another as and for his adversary.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You were accusing me of needing to learn.

I was talking about learning what scripture actually teaches, not learning what others believe.

If you cannot talk without being rude, you are too stupid to talk to me.

LOL! What an ironic statement.

And my education? I would not discuss it in detail because I would get accused of bragging. I started reading the Bible when I was six years old and started college when I was 15 years old.

You didn't seem to have any problem telling me about your theological education here, as if it's supposed to mean anything to me.

Look here. This whole thing started with you not reading my post #2 in this thread carefully and coming to the conclusion that I was saying that only the unsaved appear before the judgment seat of Christ despite my having clearly indicated that I believe both the saved and unsaved will appear before the judgment seat of Christ. So, you ended up making a strawman argument as a result. How about we start over and you address what I actually did say in that post? I apologize for being rude, but it just annoys me when people act like their education level has anything to do with their level of spiritual discernment. It doesn't. I'd like to just discuss the topic with you and leave our educational levels and that kind of thing out of it.