Judgement Seat of Christ for who ?

[Spiritual Israelite]

If he did, he wouldn't have said what he said in the New Testament.

Everyone everywhere would be saved.

Why do you say that? How do you interpret Ezekiel 33:11? Do you think everything that God desires always happens? It doesn't.

Matthew 23:37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.

God has a will that cannot be thwarted, but He also has desires that can be thwarted.

 

[Gray_Joy]

Why do you say that? How do you interpret Ezekiel 33:11? Do you think everything that God desires always happens? It doesn't.

Matthew 23:37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.

God has a will that cannot be thwarted, but He also has desires that can be thwarted.

OK. Thank you. Good talk.

 

[Grailhunter]

LOL. HA HA HA. I never said we can just sin all we want. We're not on the same page here, so I have no interest in continuing this discussion.

I know you do not want to bring up the fact that you are OSAS but when you question if a sealed Christian can be unsealed, that is the same thing.
And as far as I am concerned all saved Christians are sealed.

 

[rwb]

That started with the foundation of the world and has continued since then, but you would probably say all of their names were written in the book of life already before the foundation of the world. That's not what scripture teaches. Also, if that was true, it would not be possible for someone's name to be blotted out of the book of life, but it is.

Psalm 69:28 (NASB) Add guilt to their guilt, And may they not come into Your righteousness. 28 May they be wiped out of the book of life,
And may they not be recorded with the righteous.

Revelation 13:8 (NASB) All who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered.

Revelation 3:5 (KJV) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 22:19 (KJV) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

It's not possible for one's name to be blotted out of the book of life for all who are ordained to be saved. If it were the Bible would be filled with contradiction and confusion. The book of life/living/Lamb's book of remembrance written from the foundation of the world records the names of all who are ordained unto ETERNAL LIFE who shall be saved. But there is also a book of the living that records the names of all that are born but who are NOT written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world. The names recorded there are blotted out when the unsaved person physically dies, because they are not registered with those who are ordained to eternal life that shall be saved. Once the mortal body of the unsaved dies, they are remembered no more. (Ps 88:5; 115:17) That's what it means to be blotted out of the book of the living when names are not recorded in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world.

Psalm 69:28 (KJV) Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Revelation 17:8 (KJV) The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Deuteronomy 29:20 (KJV) The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.

Malachi 3:16 (KJV) Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

Revelation 3:5 (KJV) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

This verse Rev 13:8 says that all that dwell upon the earth whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world will worship the BEAST. (Read the context)

Revelation 13:8 (KJV) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

At the GWTJ book(S) as well as the book of life will be opened. The DEAD shall be judged according to what is found written in the books. Also, the book of life/book of the living/book of remembrance; ALL ONE BOOK - the Lamb's book of life will be searched and names of the dead shall not be found there.

Revelation 20:12 (KJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is (the book) of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:15 (KJV) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[rwb]

If we are saved by grace through faith and not by good works, as Paul taught, then how can we lose salvation by bad works/sins? It would have to be by way of losing our faith, right? Since that's how we become saved in the first place. That's what seems to be described in passages like Hebrews 3:12-14.

Israel of Old departed from God through Unbelief! That means they were NEVER of faith in Him. Their hearts remained harden through the deceitfulness of sin.

Hebrews 3:12-14 (KJV) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Though the Old Covenant nation saw the work God did in bringing them out of Egypt, still they hardened their hearts against Him never believing Him, so they died in the wilderness through unbelief. This does NOT say those who have been made partakers of Christ might fall away from Him in unbelief. Partakers of Christ will hold to our confidence in Him steadfast unto the end. The word "IF" tells us that some will be made partakers of Christ outwardly, but inwardly their hearts are still hardened in unbelief in the same way those of Old who fell through unbelief were. Outward partakers of Christ is to be part of the body but inwardly unsaved. We know this is true because it says that those of "an evil heart of unbelief" not those of faith in Him, shall depart from the living God.

Hebrews 3:15-19 (KJV) While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

The church is witness to the works of Christ. Still, many among us remain in hardness and unbelief, just as those of Old who died in unbelief. Therefore, God is not warning those who are of faith not to sin away the promise of eternal life, but warning those who are in unbelief that they too, like the nation of Old will not enter into His rest as long as they remain in hardness of heart through unbelief. Departing from Christ through unbelief in no way means the born again Christian having true, sincere faith in Christ might also depart from God, because Christ saves to the uttermost those who come to God through Him.

Hebrews 7:25 (KJV) Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

 

[rwb]

and that's a question that remains on my mind.
If the condition to be saved is faith/believe/trust then that faith/belief/trust must be ongoing.
If a person stops having faith/believing/trusting the Gospel then why are they still saved ?
Some use 2 Tim 2:13 as to why they remain saved but that doesn't make sense to me
13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Why are some of you continually taking statements of fact found in the Bible and making them conditional statements as though they teach one who is born again by grace through faith might fall away and lose the eternal life they received the moment they were born again??? Christ would not say the life we receive when we have been born again is ETERNAL LIFE if our ETERNAL LIFE could be lost! It would not be called ETERNAL if it does not last always and forever!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Israel of Old departed from God through Unbelief! That means they were NEVER of faith in Him. Their hearts remained harden through the deceitfulness of sin.

Hebrews 3:12-14 (KJV) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

That passage is not addressed to "Israel of Old", it's addressed to New Testament believers who were the "brethren" of the author (I believe the author was Paul).

Though the Old Covenant nation saw the work God did in bringing them out of Egypt, still they hardened their hearts against Him never believing Him, so they died in the wilderness through unbelief. This does NOT say those who have been made partakers of Christ might fall away from Him in unbelief.

Why is the word "if" in verse 14 if it's not actually possible for one of the "holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling" (Heb 3:1) to depart from God and to not "hold the beginning of" their "confidence stedfast unto the end"?

Partakers of Christ will hold to our confidence in Him steadfast unto the end. The word "IF" tells us that some will be made partakers of Christ outwardly, but inwardly their hearts are still hardened in unbelief in the same way those of Old who fell through unbelief were.

That's a twisting of the text. Only true believers are being addressed in that passage, not any fake believers who were in unbelief. Fake believers would not be warned about departing from the living God if they have no relationship with Him in the first place.

Outward partakers of Christ is to be part of the body but inwardly unsaved. We know this is true because it says that those of "an evil heart of unbelief" not those of faith in Him, shall depart from the living God.

Hebrews 3:15-19 (KJV) While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

It does not say they had an evil heart of unbelief all along. It's warning them about developing an evil heart of unbelief because of not holding "the beginning of" their "confidence stedfast unto the end" and not exhorting "one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.". The warnings given in Hebrews 3:12-14 are clearly being given to true believers who need to exhort one another daily and keep the beginning of their confidence stedfast until the end. Such a warning could not possibly apply to those who were not true believers.

The church is witness to the works of Christ. Still, many among us remain in hardness and unbelief, just as those of Old who died in unbelief. Therefore, God is not warning those who are of faith not to sin away the promise of eternal life, but warning those who are in unbelief that they too, like the nation of Old will not enter into His rest as long as they remain in hardness of heart through unbelief. Departing from Christ through unbelief in no way means the born again Christian having true, sincere faith in Christ might also depart from God, because Christ saves to the uttermost those who come to God through Him.

Hebrews 7:25 (KJV) Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Why would anyone need to be warned about departing from God if whether someone is saved and stays with God or not is entirely up to God? To claim that Hebrews 3:12-14 is a warning to fake believers is like warning someone who is driving down a busy road with no brakes not to crash their vehicle.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why are some of you continually taking statements of fact found in the Bible and making them conditional statements as though they teach one who is born again by grace through faith might fall away and lose the eternal life they received the moment they were born again???

Because that is what scripture teaches. Hello???

Christ would not say the life we receive when we have been born again is ETERNAL LIFE if our ETERNAL LIFE could be lost! It would not be called ETERNAL if it does not last always and forever!

Scripture shows people as not receiving eternal life unless they prove faithful until death (Revelation 2:10-11). What we have right now is the hope and promise of eternal life, but scripture repeatedly teaches that we must remain faithful in order to actually obtain it.

Besides passages like Hebrews 3:12-14, that we already are discussing, there are passages like these which confirm what I'm saying.

John 15:1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Romans 11:20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

These passages are very clear. You must remain in Christ and faithful to Him or else you will be cut off from Him. That you question why people believe this is very strange to me. If you disagree, fine. But, to not even understand why people believe this makes me wonder if you've ever read some of these passages or not. I think you probably have, so you have to be honest enough to at least acknowledge that these passages can give the impression that true believers who are in Christ can fail to remain in Him because of unbelief and fall away. On the surface, that's what these passages are clearly indicating, but by all means, feel free to show how they can mean something different than what they are saying if taken literally and straightforwardly.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's not possible for one's name to be blotted out of the book of life for all who are ordained to be saved.

Scripture says otherwise, as I showed.

If it were the Bible would be filled with contradiction and confusion.

No it's not the Bible that is filled with contradiction and confusion.

The book of life/living/Lamb's book of remembrance written from the foundation of the world records the names of all who are ordained unto ETERNAL LIFE who shall be saved.

Where does scripture teach that it's not a book that continues to have more names written in it as times goes on and rather is a book that already had the names of everyone who will ever be saved in it from the foundation of the world?

But there is also a book of the living that records the names of all that are born but who are NOT written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world.

No, there isn't. The book of the living of Psalm 69:28 is the same as the book of life. That's why some translations translate it as "the book of life" rather than "the book of the living". Since it has been written since the foundation of the world, we should expect that it could be referred to in the Old Testament and not just in the New Testament.

The names recorded there are blotted out when the unsaved person physically dies, because they are not registered with those who are ordained to eternal life that shall be saved. Once the mortal body of the unsaved dies, they are remembered no more. (Ps 88:5; 115:17) That's what it means to be blotted out of the book of the living when names are not recorded in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world.

Psalm 69:28 (KJV) Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

You are trying to say that this is referring to a different book than the book of life. No, it is not. Look at the criteria for having one's name written in it. You have to be among the righteous. You are trying to say that the basis for having your name written in the book of the living is to be physically alive. That's not what it says at all. Just like the other references to the book of life, the criteria for having your name written in it is shown to be that you must be among the righteous (the saved). That's why Revelation 3:5 says something very similar to this verse by indicating that those who overcome will not have their names blotted out of the book of life. That lines up with this verse indicating that those who do not overcome and do not prove to be among the righteous will have their names blotted out of the book of life.

The following passage confirms this even further.

Exodus 32:31 Then Moses returned to the Lord and said, “Oh, these people have committed a great sin, and have made for themselves a god of gold! 32 Yet now, if You will forgive their sin—but if not, I pray, blot me out of Your book which You have written.” 33 And the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

What other book can this be than the book of life? It's written by the Lord just as the book of life is and it only includes those who belong to the Lord rather than those who have rebelled against Him. So, this passage confirms that people can have their names written in the book of life and then later have them blotted out.

Revelation 17:8 (KJV) The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

This verse simply confirms that anyone who worships the beast does not have their name written in the book of life. It does not prove that someone's name can't be written in the book of life and later removed from it.

Deuteronomy 29:20 (KJV) The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.

This verse makes no mention of the book of life and is not related to it. Similar wording in a verse does not automatically make it related to another verse with similar wording. Otherwise, we'd have to conclude that Daniel 7:13-14 is about the second coming of Christ rather than His ascension because both Daniel 7:13-14 and Matthew 24:30 talk about Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven. We can make scripture say almost anything if we try to relate every verse that contains some similar wording directly together.

Malachi 3:16 (KJV) Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

This verse simply confirms that only the saved have their names written in the book of life and says nothing about whether someone can have their name written in it and later have it blotted out.

Revelation 3:5 (KJV) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

The fact that it points out that those who overcome will not have their names blotted out of the book of life implies that those who do not overcome will have their names blotted out of the book of life. Otherwise, why would Jesus even mention that overcomes will not have their names blotted out of the book of life if it wasn't possible for anyone's names to be blotted out? That would make no sense.

This verse Rev 13:8 says that all that dwell upon the earth whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world will worship the BEAST. (Read the context)

Revelation 13:8 (KJV) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

For one thing, that's a poor translation of the verse. Jesus was slain around 2,000 years ago, not from the foundation of the world. Yes, it was the plan for Him to be slain from the foundation of the world, but this verse is talking about when He was actually slain. It's the book of life that has been written from the foundation of the world, just as is indicated in Revelation 17:8.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

So, here is are better translations of that verse that lines up with Revelation 17:8 and doesn't try to claim that Jesus was slain before He was actually slain.

Revelation 13:8 (NASB) All who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered.

Revelation 13:8 (ESV) and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

At the GWTJ book(S) as well as the book of life will be opened. The DEAD shall be judged according to what is found written in the books. Also, the book of life/book of the living/book of remembrance; ALL ONE BOOK - the Lamb's book of life will be searched and names of the dead shall not be found there.

Revelation 20:12 (KJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is (the book) of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:15 (KJV) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Exactly. Just as is indicated in verses like Psalm 69:28 and the others, the book of life is a book which only contains the names of the righteous/saved within it. That says nothing one way or another about whether someone's name could be written in it and later blotted out. But, other verses like Psalm 69:28, Exodus 32:33 and Revelation 3:5 indicate that it can happen.

 

[rwb]

That passage is not addressed to "Israel of Old", it's addressed to New Testament believers who were the "brethren" of the author (I believe the author was Paul).

Yes, but it is using the Old Covenant nation as an example for the church!

Why is the word "if" in verse 14 if it's not actually possible for one of the "holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling" (Heb 3:1) to depart from God and to not "hold the beginning of" their "confidence stedfast unto the end"?

You're making it a conditional statement, but it is a statement for those of faith, that they might know that not all who call Christ Lord shall be saved! The context plainly shows that some in the church, just like some in the Old Covenant nation, will depart from God through UNBELIEF! This is not a conditional statement but a statement of FACT! The apostle did not know who among the body of Christ, professing faith in Christ are not inwardly changed, and since they remain in hardness of heart through unbelief will not be steadfast unto the end.

That's a twisting of the text. Only true believers are being addressed in that passage, not any fake believers who were in unbelief. Fake believers would not be warned about departing from the living God if they have no relationship with Him in the first place.

The words are written for the church on earth that shall always be comprised of both believers and unbelievers alike. All are called, saints, holy, and brethren, to encourage, and exalt always professing truth in hopes of pulling those who are in unbelief from the fiery flames that await them IF they remain in unbelief.

Hebrews 4:6-7 (KJV) Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Hebrews 4:11-14 (KJV) Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Twisting the text would be taking a statement of fact and trying to force it to be a conditional statement to fit unbiblical doctrine.

It does not say they had an evil heart of unbelief all along. It's warning them about developing an evil heart of unbelief because of not holding "the beginning of" their "confidence stedfast unto the end" and not exhorting "one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.". The warnings given in Hebrews 3:12-14 are clearly being given to true believers who need to exhort one another daily and keep the beginning of their confidence stedfast until the end. Such a warning could not possibly apply to those who were not true believers.

It takes more than believing! Believing without having faith that comes through grace, is no different than how devils believe.

James 2:19 (KJV) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The warnings are given that we might understand how we are called to EXAMINE OURSELVES to make sure our faith if not vain and we are shown to be reprobates!

2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Why would anyone need to be warned about departing from God if whether someone is saved and stays with God or not is entirely up to God? To claim that Hebrews 3:12-14 is a warning to fake believers is like warning someone who is driving down a busy road with no brakes not to crash their vehicle.

As I've been saying all along, the warnings are for the WHOLE church because in this world the church NOW is not pure and undefiled because the church outwardly is comprised of both born again Christians, and sheep in wolves clothing who are themselves deceived and seeking to deceive others.

 

[rwb]

Hello???

GOOD BYE!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, but it is using the Old Covenant nation as an example for the church!

Yes, in verse 15 the rebellion of God's people in old covenant times is referenced. So? Hebrews 3:12-14 is clearly being addressed only to true believers because it refers to the "brethren", which is a reference to the same "holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling" referenced a bit earlier in Hebrews 3:1.

You're making it a conditional statement,

Because it very clearly is. That's what the word "IF" implies and you would agree if not for your extreme doctrinal bias.

but it is a statement for those of faith, that they might know that not all who call Christ Lord shall be saved! The context plainly shows that some in the church, just like some in the Old Covenant nation, will depart from God through UNBELIEF!

How can they depart from God if they are totally depraved and do not belong to God in the first place? You believe that they were departed from God already at birth. The passage is clearly addressed to true believers, not unbelievers.

This is not a conditional statement but a statement of FACT!

Your OPINIONS are not FACT!

The apostle did not know who among the body of Christ, professing faith in Christ are not inwardly changed, and since they remain in hardness of heart through unbelief will not be steadfast unto the end.

Do you really think he would refer to them all as "holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling" if his message was not just intended for true believers? I sure don't.

The words are written for the church on earth that shall always be comprised of both believers and unbelievers alike.

Goodness gracious. Nowhere does scripture teach that unbelievers are part of the church. They might attend local churches, but they are not part of the church/body of Christ.

All are called, saints, holy, and brethren, to encourage, and exalt always professing truth in hopes of pulling those who are in unbelief from the fiery flames that await them IF they remain in unbelief.

Hebrews 4:6-7 (KJV) Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Hebrews 4:11-14 (KJV) Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Twisting the text would be taking a statement of fact and trying to force it to be a conditional statement to fit unbiblical doctrine.

Look at these texts more carefully. Where does it indicate that it's a guarantee rather than being conditional for people to "enter into that rest" or not? The context here is that people are responsible for choosing to "enter into that rest or not", otherwise it would make no sense for any encouragement and exhortation to be required for people to "enter into that rest". If it's already a foregone conclusion from before the foundation of the world as to who will or won't "enter that rest", as you believe, then all the encouragement and exhortation for people to enter into that rest is all just for show and has no real meaning.

The author of Hebrews obviously was saved. Yet, he said in Hebrews 4:11 "Let US labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.". He was talking about something that had not happened yet even for him. That lines up with Hebrews 3:14 which says "For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end". We don't "enter into that rest" unless "we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end" first.

It takes more than believing! Believing without having faith that comes through grace, is no different than how devils believe.

James 2:19 (KJV) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Where did I say otherwise? Nowhere. Hebrews 3:14 actually confirms this. It refers to "confidence" which is more than just believing that God exists, but having trust/confidence in Him.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The warnings are given that we might understand how we are called to EXAMINE OURSELVES to make sure our faith if not vain and we are shown to be reprobates!

2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Like Hebrews 3:12-14, that is addressed only to true believers. So, what Paul is doing there is telling them to examine themselves to see if they still have faith or not. He's not telling those who never had faith to examine if they have faith or not. Paul never specifically addresses unbelievers in his letters. His messages are always for true believers.

As I've been saying all along, the warnings are for the WHOLE church because in this world the church NOW is not pure and undefiled because the church outwardly is comprised of both born again Christians, and sheep in wolves clothing who are themselves deceived and seeking to deceive others.

Wolves in sheep clothing go in among the church to try to deceive people who are in the church, but they are not part of the church/body of Christ in any way, shape or form.

 

[Gray_Joy]

It's not possible for one's name to be blotted out of the book of life for all who are ordained to be saved. If it were the Bible would be filled with contradiction and confusion. The book of life/living/Lamb's book of remembrance written from the foundation of the world records the names of all who are ordained unto ETERNAL LIFE who shall be saved. But there is also a book of the living that records the names of all that are born but who are NOT written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world. The names recorded there are blotted out when the unsaved person physically dies, because they are not registered with those who are ordained to eternal life that shall be saved. Once the mortal body of the unsaved dies, they are remembered no more. (Ps 88:5; 115:17) That's what it means to be blotted out of the book of the living when names are not recorded in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world.

Psalm 69:28 (KJV) Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Revelation 17:8 (KJV) The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Deuteronomy 29:20 (KJV) The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.

Malachi 3:16 (KJV) Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

Revelation 3:5 (KJV) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

This verse Rev 13:8 says that all that dwell upon the earth whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world will worship the BEAST. (Read the context)

Revelation 13:8 (KJV) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

At the GWTJ book(S) as well as the book of life will be opened. The DEAD shall be judged according to what is found written in the books. Also, the book of life/book of the living/book of remembrance; ALL ONE BOOK - the Lamb's book of life will be searched and names of the dead shall not be found there.

Revelation 20:12 (KJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is (the book) of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:15 (KJV) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

True.
Our names were written forever in the Book of Life before the world was made.
That's how God knows whom to call into his grace. His grace filled Salvation is irrevocable. Romans 11.

John 10:28-29: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand."

Philippians 1:6

 

[rwb]

True.
Our names were written forever in the Book of Life before the world was made.
That's how God knows whom to call into his grace. His grace filled Salvation is irrevocable. Romans 11.

John 10:28-29: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand."

Philippians 1:6

Absolutely! Born again believers rejoice with the first century disciples because our names are written in heaven, recorded in the book of life from the foundation of the world.

Luke 10:20 (KJV) Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

Philippians 4:3 (KJV) And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

Philippians 4:4 (KJV) Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice.

 

[Gray_Joy]

Absolutely! Born again believers rejoice with the first century disciples because our names are written in heaven, recorded in the book of life from the foundation of the world.

Luke 10:20 (KJV) Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

Philippians 4:3 (KJV) And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

Philippians 4:4 (KJV) Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice.

Let the church say,Amen.

Many feel called but few are his chosen.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I know you do not want to bring up the fact that you are OSAS

LOL. I'm not OSAS. This proves even further that we're not on the same page and not understanding each other.

but when you question if a sealed Christian can be unsealed, that is the same thing.

You have me confused with someone else. I never said that. I think @Gray_Joy may have said that.

And as far as I am concerned all saved Christians are sealed.

Of course they are, but the question is can they lose their faith and depart and fall away from God and there's a lot of scriptures which say they can. Do you agree?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Let the church say,Amen.

Many feel called but few are his chosen.

Please show me where Jesus said "many FEEL called, but few are his chosen" rather than saying "Many ARE called, but few are chosen"? Do you think the invitation that He described in Matthew 22:1-13 is a disingenuous invitation/offer to those who reject it? If so, why even invite them at all? Do you think that God is just playing some kind of game with people by making it seem like He is offering salvation to them when He is not?

 

[Gray_Joy]

You have me confused with someone else. I never said that. I think @Gray_Joy may have said that.

I have never said those sealed in Christ can become unsealed.

I'll say this as well. If the acronym , OSAS, refers to those who are eternally irrevocably saved by God's grace, I say, Amen.

Who would ever deny that God given gift when they know they have it?

 

[Gray_Joy]

Please show me where Jesus said "many FEEL called, but few are his chosen" rather than saying "Many ARE called, but few are chosen"? Do you think the invitation that He described in Matthew 22:1-13 is a disingenuous invitation/offer to those who reject it? If so, why even invite them at all? Do you think that God is just playing some kind of game with people by making it seem like He is offering salvation to them when He is not?

Matthew 22 may give you insight.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have never said those sealed in Christ can become unsealed.

No, I'm saying I think you questioned whether that can be the case, not that you said it is the case. I'm pretty sure it was you who asked that question.