Should Nations Help the Sick and Poor?

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Richard Aberdeen

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Apparently to justify their undying support of the Republican so-called 'free' market agenda, Evangelical and other conservative Christian leaders have invented an axiom seemingly taught religiously to their congregations, that only individuals and, not nations collectively, should help the sick and poor.

Fortunately for the sick and poor and, unfortunately for those who promote such nonsense, various prophets in the Bible and God himself seem to have the opposite opinion. Rather than debate with folks who apparently believe Jesus was a capitalist, let's see what the Bible actually says about this:

In Leviticus 23, God commands the nation of Israel: "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not wholly reap the corners of your field when you reap, nor shall you gather any gleaning from your harvest. You shall leave them for the poor and for the stranger. . ."

From Wikipedia: "On one of the two occasions that this is stated in Leviticus, it adds that in vineyards, some grapes should be left ungathered, a statement also found in Deuteronomy. These verses additionally command that olive trees should not be beaten on multiple occasions, and whatever remains from the first set of beatings should be left. . . Deuteronomy commands that it should be left for widows, strangers, and paternal orphans."

Imagine if in the modern United States, 10% or even 5% or even 3% of all taxation was devoted annually to house and feed the poor. Soon enough, there would be no poor people left to house and feed. Or, imagine if 10% of all monies collected by religious organizations was earmarked annually for helping the poor. Likely the same result would soon occur.

Both Malachi 3:6 and Zecharia 7:10 warn us not to oppress immigrants and the poor but rather, help them. In Exodus 22, unlike the Trump and Biden administration, God says: "you shall neither mistreat a stranger nor oppress him. . ." And, God is strongly against charging any interest to the poor, rather than the 30% plus often charged by modern capitalist banks.

Jesus in the New Testament, teaches us to take the stranger in, rather than build a wall to keep poor refugees out and far worse, deliberately separate immigrant children from their weeping parent's arms. And in the so-called "dark" ages, it was considered barbaric to charge more than 5-6% interest.

According to the prophet Ezekiel (16:49), a primary reason God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah is because they were a proud and haughty people who refused to help the poor and needy. Virtually all of the prophets were angry with political leaders and the nations of Israel and Judah for not helping the needy, poor and oppressed and, for often making their lot worse, like the Republican agenda does in modern-day America.

In Nehemiah chapter 5, Isaiah 3 & 10, Jeremiah 7 & 22, Amos 6 & 8, Michah 2 & 3, Zephaniah 3 and Habakkuk 2, the prophets are angry with political leaders and the nations of Judah and/or Israel for not helping and worse, often harming the poor. Moses likewise admonishes the children of Israel as a collective nation, to open their hand to the poor and needy.

In the New Testament, early followers of Jesus shared all things in common, distributing to each according to need. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, the foundation of socialism is "to each according to need". Conservative Christian leaders call socialism "evil", even though the real followers of Jesus seem to have believed giving our excess to the poor is Godly, moral and correct.

Early "assemblies" of Jesus, that is groups of people, not buildings or religious organizations, often took up collections for the sick and poor. They seem to have forgotten to take up collections to build temples made with hands or for anything else that modern so-called 'churches' typically do.

It's rather difficult to imagine Jesus deliberately attempting to take healthcare away from the sick and poor, like Republicans have repeatedly tried to do. And, rather than attempt to list the myriad of places where Jesus teaches in both word and deed to help immigrants, the sick, the poor and the otherwise oppressed, it is wise to check out the four biographies of Jesus in the New Testament for our self.
 
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lforrest

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A functional civil society relies upon the community to care for the needy. The government is not the nation, the people are. The government taking these roles from the people leads to a decline in the community as a whole. And the government's standard of care is impersonal and beurocratic in nature. What once required care and generosity becomes a 9-5 desk job.
 

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Apparently to justify their undying support of the Republican so-called 'free' market agenda, Evangelical and other conservative Christian leaders have invented an axiom seemingly taught religiously to their congregations, that only individuals and, not nations collectively, should help the sick and poor.

Fortunately for the sick and poor and, unfortunately for those who promote such nonsense, various prophets in the Bible and God himself seem to have the opposite opinion. Rather than debate with folks who apparently believe Jesus was a capitalist, let's see what the Bible actually says about this:

In Leviticus 23, God commands the nation of Israel: "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not wholly reap the corners of your field when you reap, nor shall you gather any gleaning from your harvest. You shall leave them for the poor and for the stranger. . ."

From Wikipedia: "On one of the two occasions that this is stated in Leviticus, it adds that in vineyards, some grapes should be left ungathered, a statement also found in Deuteronomy. These verses additionally command that olive trees should not be beaten on multiple occasions, and whatever remains from the first set of beatings should be left. . . Deuteronomy commands that it should be left for widows, strangers, and paternal orphans."

Imagine if in the modern United States, 10% or even 5% or even 3% of all taxation was devoted annually to house and feed the poor. Soon enough, there would be no poor people left to house and feed. Or, imagine if 10% of all monies collected by religious organizations was earmarked annually for helping the poor. Likely the same result would soon occur.

Both Malachi 3:6 and Zecharia 7:10 warn us not to oppress immigrants and the poor but rather, help them. In Exodus 22, unlike the Trump and Biden administration, God says: "you shall neither mistreat a stranger nor oppress him. . ." And, God is strongly against charging any interest to the poor, rather than the 30% plus often charged by modern capitalist banks.

Jesus in the New Testament, teaches us to take the stranger in, rather than build a wall to keep poor refugees out and far worse, deliberately separate immigrant children from their weeping parent's arms. And in the so-called "dark" ages, it was considered barbaric to charge more than 5-6% interest.

According to the prophet Ezekiel (16:49), a primary reason God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah is because they were a proud and haughty people who refused to help the poor and needy. Virtually all of the prophets were angry with political leaders and the nations of Israel and Judah for not helping the needy, poor and oppressed and, for often making their lot worse, like the Republican agenda does in modern-day America.

In Nehemiah chapter 5, Isaiah 3 & 10, Jeremiah 7 & 22, Amos 6 & 8, Michah 2 & 3, Zephaniah 3 and Habakkuk 2, the prophets are angry with political leaders and the nations of Judah and/or Israel for not helping and worse, often harming the poor. Moses likewise admonishes the children of Israel as a collective nation, to open their hand to the poor and needy.

In the New Testament, early followers of Jesus shared all things in common, distributing to each according to need. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, the foundation of socialism is "to each according to need". Conservative Christian leaders call socialism "evil", even though the real followers of Jesus seem to have believed giving our excess to the poor is Godly, moral and correct.

Early "assemblies" of Jesus, that is groups of people, not buildings or religious organizations, often took up collections for the sick and poor. They seem to have forgotten to take up collections to build temples made with hands or for anything else that modern so-called 'churches' typically do.

It's rather difficult to imagine Jesus deliberately attempting to take healthcare away from the sick and poor, like Republicans have repeatedly tried to do. And, rather than attempt to list the myriad of places where Jesus teaches in both word and deed to help immigrants, the sick, the poor and the otherwise oppressed, it is wise to check out the four biographies of Jesus in the New Testament for our self.
Go out and help the needy yourself along with all the churches that do. Nobody is asking for a hand outs from the government, and thank God they don't . You are the ambassador for Christ, not a pagan elected official. You seem to want somebody else to do the work. Spend your own money and start a homeless ministry.. by the way, nobody I've heard of has called Jesus a capitalist except you.
 

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Apparently to justify their undying support of the Republican so-called 'free' market agenda, Evangelical and other conservative Christian leaders have invented an axiom seemingly taught religiously to their congregations, that only individuals and, not nations collectively, should help the sick and poor.

Fortunately for the sick and poor and, unfortunately for those who promote such nonsense, various prophets in the Bible and God himself seem to have the opposite opinion. Rather than debate with folks who apparently believe Jesus was a capitalist, let's see what the Bible actually says about this:

In Leviticus 23, God commands the nation of Israel: "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not wholly reap the corners of your field when you reap, nor shall you gather any gleaning from your harvest. You shall leave them for the poor and for the stranger. . ."

From Wikipedia: "On one of the two occasions that this is stated in Leviticus, it adds that in vineyards, some grapes should be left ungathered, a statement also found in Deuteronomy. These verses additionally command that olive trees should not be beaten on multiple occasions, and whatever remains from the first set of beatings should be left. . . Deuteronomy commands that it should be left for widows, strangers, and paternal orphans."

Imagine if in the modern United States, 10% or even 5% or even 3% of all taxation was devoted annually to house and feed the poor. Soon enough, there would be no poor people left to house and feed. Or, imagine if 10% of all monies collected by religious organizations was earmarked annually for helping the poor. Likely the same result would soon occur.

Both Malachi 3:6 and Zecharia 7:10 warn us not to oppress immigrants and the poor but rather, help them. In Exodus 22, unlike the Trump and Biden administration, God says: "you shall neither mistreat a stranger nor oppress him. . ." And, God is strongly against charging any interest to the poor, rather than the 30% plus often charged by modern capitalist banks.

Jesus in the New Testament, teaches us to take the stranger in, rather than build a wall to keep poor refugees out and far worse, deliberately separate immigrant children from their weeping parent's arms. And in the so-called "dark" ages, it was considered barbaric to charge more than 5-6% interest.

According to the prophet Ezekiel (16:49), a primary reason God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah is because they were a proud and haughty people who refused to help the poor and needy. Virtually all of the prophets were angry with political leaders and the nations of Israel and Judah for not helping the needy, poor and oppressed and, for often making their lot worse, like the Republican agenda does in modern-day America.

In Nehemiah chapter 5, Isaiah 3 & 10, Jeremiah 7 & 22, Amos 6 & 8, Michah 2 & 3, Zephaniah 3 and Habakkuk 2, the prophets are angry with political leaders and the nations of Judah and/or Israel for not helping and worse, often harming the poor. Moses likewise admonishes the children of Israel as a collective nation, to open their hand to the poor and needy.

In the New Testament, early followers of Jesus shared all things in common, distributing to each according to need. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, the foundation of socialism is "to each according to need". Conservative Christian leaders call socialism "evil", even though the real followers of Jesus seem to have believed giving our excess to the poor is Godly, moral and correct.

Early "assemblies" of Jesus, that is groups of people, not buildings or religious organizations, often took up collections for the sick and poor. They seem to have forgotten to take up collections to build temples made with hands or for anything else that modern so-called 'churches' typically do.

It's rather difficult to imagine Jesus deliberately attempting to take healthcare away from the sick and poor, like Republicans have repeatedly tried to do. And, rather than attempt to list the myriad of places where Jesus teaches in both word and deed to help immigrants, the sick, the poor and the otherwise oppressed, it is wise to check out the four biographies of Jesus in the New Testament for our self.
Pretty much ALL of the money the Apostles collected within the church was to take care of orphans and widows (indeed) It was never meant to be for the Apostles as a living, a vocation.
The "wages" are food and shelter.

Matt. 10:8
"Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give."

2 Thessalonians 3:10
"For even when we were with you, this we commanded you: that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

"Any" means just that, all people pull their share of the weight, including the apostles.

So, I think it is (was) supposed to be the church but...obviously not nearly enough churches in the world actually go out and do that...all and any members. I thought that was the real church...the hands and feet of Jesus, on the earth.

We know that Paul made tents for a living..
 

markalan

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Christians of all stripes help the sick and poor ... the Left believe in allowing people to exploit the system because it buys them votes.

It has been said that the difference between the Left & the Right is that the Left believe in a hand out ... the Right believe in a hand up.
 

quietthinker

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Should Nations Help the Sick and Poor?​

Should Nations exploit, deceive and beat the sick and poor to death?
 
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Richard Aberdeen

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A functional civil society relies upon the community to care for the needy. The government is not the nation, the people are. The government taking these roles from the people leads to a decline in the community as a whole. And the government's standard of care is impersonal and beurocratic in nature. What once required care and generosity becomes a 9-5 desk job.
The Bible clearly teaches that nations collectively should help the poor. If the people are the government, which is an American ideal, then our government should be helping the poor and needy.
 

lforrest

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The Bible clearly teaches that nations collectively should help the poor. If the people are the government, which is an American ideal, then our government should be helping the poor and needy.
I prefer limited government, as government is wasteful and often ineffective. There is no guarantee that what is supposed to be funded, will be funded. The incentive is on making an appearance of being charitable because that wins votes from people like you. Meanwhile the poor and disenfranchised still suffer. And with evil men and women in charge, it seem to be by design.
 
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Richard Aberdeen

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I prefer limited government, as government is wasteful and often ineffective. There is no guarantee that what is supposed to be funded, will be funded. The incentive is on making an appearance of being charitable because that wins votes from people like you. Meanwhile the poor and disenfranchised still suffer. And with evil men and women in charge, it seem to be by design.
I told you what the Bible clearly teaches. I don't care what you prefer. "I prefer limited government", spoken like a true capitalist who doesn't care about his or her neighbor.
 

Justified

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I prefer limited government,
Limited government will never work well; no form of government will, although some are better than others.

as government is wasteful and often ineffective. There is no guarantee that what is supposed to be funded, will be funded.
Many churches are wasteful and often ineffective, nor is there any guarantee that what is supposed to be funded will be funded.

The incentive is on making an appearance of being charitable because that wins votes from people like you. Meanwhile the poor and disenfranchised still suffer. And with evil men and women in charge, it seem to be by design.
There is so much worldliness, selfishness, materialism, and greed in the western church that many homeless and poor would likely do worse if the governments stopped helping.
 

Taken

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Should Nations Help the Sick and Poor?

Biblical Help is To offer/ lend “your own hand”, while … “offering a WORD of God”, AND “accrediting God”, for your circumstance and ability to “lend” a HELPING hand…and impress a thought on the “poor in spirit”.

Hope the government “coheres”, “forces”, one to pay for an others…”needs, wants, demands”? No!

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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MatthewG

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Apparently to justify their undying support of the Republican so-called 'free' market agenda, Evangelical and other conservative Christian leaders have invented an axiom seemingly taught religiously to their congregations, that only individuals and, not nations collectively, should help the sick and poor.

Fortunately for the sick and poor and, unfortunately for those who promote such nonsense, various prophets in the Bible and God himself seem to have the opposite opinion. Rather than debate with folks who apparently believe Jesus was a capitalist, let's see what the Bible actually says about this:

In Leviticus 23, God commands the nation of Israel: "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not wholly reap the corners of your field when you reap, nor shall you gather any gleaning from your harvest. You shall leave them for the poor and for the stranger. . ."

From Wikipedia: "On one of the two occasions that this is stated in Leviticus, it adds that in vineyards, some grapes should be left ungathered, a statement also found in Deuteronomy. These verses additionally command that olive trees should not be beaten on multiple occasions, and whatever remains from the first set of beatings should be left. . . Deuteronomy commands that it should be left for widows, strangers, and paternal orphans."

Imagine if in the modern United States, 10% or even 5% or even 3% of all taxation was devoted annually to house and feed the poor. Soon enough, there would be no poor people left to house and feed. Or, imagine if 10% of all monies collected by religious organizations was earmarked annually for helping the poor. Likely the same result would soon occur.

Both Malachi 3:6 and Zecharia 7:10 warn us not to oppress immigrants and the poor but rather, help them. In Exodus 22, unlike the Trump and Biden administration, God says: "you shall neither mistreat a stranger nor oppress him. . ." And, God is strongly against charging any interest to the poor, rather than the 30% plus often charged by modern capitalist banks.

Jesus in the New Testament, teaches us to take the stranger in, rather than build a wall to keep poor refugees out and far worse, deliberately separate immigrant children from their weeping parent's arms. And in the so-called "dark" ages, it was considered barbaric to charge more than 5-6% interest.

According to the prophet Ezekiel (16:49), a primary reason God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah is because they were a proud and haughty people who refused to help the poor and needy. Virtually all of the prophets were angry with political leaders and the nations of Israel and Judah for not helping the needy, poor and oppressed and, for often making their lot worse, like the Republican agenda does in modern-day America.

In Nehemiah chapter 5, Isaiah 3 & 10, Jeremiah 7 & 22, Amos 6 & 8, Michah 2 & 3, Zephaniah 3 and Habakkuk 2, the prophets are angry with political leaders and the nations of Judah and/or Israel for not helping and worse, often harming the poor. Moses likewise admonishes the children of Israel as a collective nation, to open their hand to the poor and needy.

In the New Testament, early followers of Jesus shared all things in common, distributing to each according to need. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, the foundation of socialism is "to each according to need". Conservative Christian leaders call socialism "evil", even though the real followers of Jesus seem to have believed giving our excess to the poor is Godly, moral and correct.

Early "assemblies" of Jesus, that is groups of people, not buildings or religious organizations, often took up collections for the sick and poor. They seem to have forgotten to take up collections to build temples made with hands or for anything else that modern so-called 'churches' typically do.

It's rather difficult to imagine Jesus deliberately attempting to take healthcare away from the sick and poor, like Republicans have repeatedly tried to do. And, rather than attempt to list the myriad of places where Jesus teaches in both word and deed to help immigrants, the sick, the poor and the otherwise oppressed, it is wise to check out the four biographies of Jesus in the New Testament for our self.
Richard, I appreciate the amount of Scripture you brought into the conversation. It’s clear you care about what the Bible says regarding the poor, the stranger, and those in need. Those themes run all throughout the Law, the Prophets, and the teachings of Jesus, and I don’t disagree with that emphasis at all.

Where I try to stay careful is when modern political categories get blended into biblical interpretation. The Scriptures were written long before any of our current systems existed, and they speak to the heart of God rather than to specific political models. The commands you quoted — gleaning laws, caring for widows, strangers, and the poor — were given to Israel as a covenant people under a theocratic structure, not as a blueprint for modern nations.

But the principle behind them absolutely still matters: God cares deeply for the vulnerable, and His people should reflect that.

Jesus Himself said:

  • “I was hungry and you gave Me food… I was a stranger and you took Me in.” (Matthew 25:35)
  • “Give to the one who asks of you.” (Matthew 5:42)
And Paul taught believers to:

  • “Remember the poor.” (Galatians 2:10)
So I agree that compassion, generosity, and justice are central to God’s heart.

At the same time, I don’t think Scripture assigns those responsibilities to one political party or system. The New Testament consistently places the emphasis on the people of God themselves — the “assembly,” the “body,” the “temple” — living out the character of Christ in whatever society they’re in.

My focus is simply trying to follow Jesus’ teachings in my own life, without tying His words to any modern political agenda. The Kingdom of God doesn’t fit neatly into any of our categories, and I think that’s intentional.

I appreciate the conversation and the Scriptures you brought up. My aim is just to keep the discussion centered on Christ and the heart of God rather than on political labels.
 

Richard Aberdeen

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Limited government will never work well; no form of government will, although some are better than others.


Many churches are wasteful and often ineffective, nor is there any guarantee that what is supposed to be funded will be funded.


There is so much worldliness, selfishness, materialism, and greed in the western church that many homeless and poor would likely do worse if the governments stopped helping.
I agree. I recommend helping the poor directly. I do not recommend giving money to a church.
 
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Gray_Joy

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As far as I know, countries do assist their poor and sick.

Though I think,just as the faithful in Christ are his church,that we who are citizens of a Democratic country are also its governors. And we can help the poor and sickly directly.

Bureaucracy takes time. Charity and compassion takes heart.
 

Rockerduck

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I think the billionaires of the world could fix any problem, however, the god of this world has them under his control. They are evil to the core and nothing good is in them. They finance anything that directly benefits them. The governments of this world are the most corrupt than at anytime in history. Let's say a candidate of office says he will fix homelessness. He gets elected and hires his crony that helped get him elected for a million dollar salary. Then they go to the finance committee and request money.
A. they get no money, crony keeps job. B. Your taxes get raised to pay for it. then bids go out and more cronies get hired. Math - spend 10 million received and the homeless only get 1 million.
 
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lforrest

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Limited government will never work well; no form of government will, although some are better than others.

If no form of government works why want more instead of less?

Many churches are wasteful and often ineffective, nor is there any guarantee that what is supposed to be funded will be funded.

Churches may open themselves to civil liability if they use donations for other purposes when a donation is intended for a specific program. But governments seem to get away with it easily.

There is so much worldliness, selfishness, materialism, and greed in the western church that many homeless and poor would likely do worse if the governments stopped helping.
Apathy destroyed Sodom and Gimoroah. But Apathy is a societal problem, stemming from godlessness. I don't believe it to be a problem that can be mitigated by government programs.

The Pharisees did everything for men to see, to stroke their egos and boost their reputation. Yet they did not display love for their Jewish brothers and sisters by lifting even a finger. Those who trust in the government are taking love out of the picture in the same way. These days it is called virtue signaling.

If we take society as a whole in the current state of godlessness is it better for governments to redistribute wealth to the poor by force of law through taxes? I'm not convinced, maybe a little. But I hate that we are not addressing the root of the problem.
 

Richard Aberdeen

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As far as I know, countries do assist their poor and sick.

Though I think,just as the faithful in Christ are his church,that we who are citizens of a Democratic country are also its governors. And we can help the poor and sickly directly.

Bureaucracy takes time. Charity and compassion takes heart.
I agree. I have long agreed that both individuals and nations collectively should help the poor, which is what the Bible says. The problem is, there are insidious lies in conservative churches teaching their congregations that only individuals and not nations should help the poor. This is totally non-biblical and a lie.

The U.S. has consistently contributed less than she used to do to help the sick, poor and needy. Trump's defunding of foreign aid has already cost the lives of over 750,000 people and is projected to cost the lives of over 9 million. Trump has defunded cancer research, mass pollution monitoring and related disease research, fired many top disease experts and has gutted Medicaid and defunded food programs for the poor in the U.S. Just this week, Trump stated he wants to get rid of social security and Medicare because he needs the money to fight wars.

Such actions by Trump are anti-Christ; against God Almighty.
 

Gray_Joy

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I think the billionaires of the world could fix any problem, however, the god of this world has them under his control. They are evil to the core and nothing good is in them. They finance anything that directly benefits them. The governments of this world are the most corrupt than at anytime in history. Let's say a candidate of office says he will fix homelessness. He gets elected and hires his crony that helped get him elected for a million dollar salary. Then they go to the finance committee and request money.
A. they get no money, crony keeps job. B. Your taxes get raised to pay for it. then bids go out and more cronies get hired. Math - spend 10 million received and the homeless only get 1 million.
Allegedly, Elon Musk was recently reported as the worlds first Trillionaire.

Imagine what he could do for the needy.

What I don't like though is the absurd movement that's piped up here and there that condemns wealth.

"That's just too much money for one person to have!"

They worked for it. Go away and hush!
 

Richard Aberdeen

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Allegedly, Elon Musk was recently reported as the worlds first Trillionaire.

Imagine what he could do for the needy.

What I don't like though is the absurd movement that's piped up here and there that condemns wealth.

"That's just too much money for one person to have!"

They worked for it. Go away and hush!
I have long agreed that both individuals and nations collectively should help the poor, which is what the Bible says. The problem is, there are insidious lies in conservative churches teaching their congregations that only individuals and not nations should help the poor. This is totally non-biblical and a lie.

The U.S. has consistently contributed less than she used to do to help the sick, poor and needy. Trump's defunding of foreign aid has already cost the lives of over 750,000 people and is projected to cost the lives of over 9 million. Trump has defunded cancer research, mass pollution monitoring and related disease research, fired many top disease experts and has gutted Medicaid and defunded food programs for the poor in the U.S. Just this week, Trump stated he wants to get rid of social security and Medicare because he needs the money to fight wars.

Such actions by Trump are anti-Christ; against God Almighty.

In case you are unaware, whether or not global warming is true or false as Trump pretends without evidence, pollution is the number one killer on earth and extremely bad for human health; especially for our children.