How Confidant Are You Being Saved?

[Wrangler]

You still have not answered Romans 4:5:

Putting it in modern English, so I can understand It:

But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners.​

I didn’t answer it because it’s a distraction to the OP, presuming salvation depends on our righteousness rather than keeping our end of the conditional promise. Said differently, one can stick to an agreement independent of judging the righteousness of the other party.

 

[bdavidc]

Compared to you, ignoring Christ’s words on the point.

That is not an answer. It is a smoke screen thrown up because Romans 4:5 stands there like a hammer and you cannot break it.

Quote the words of Christ that contradict Paul. You cannot. Jesus said the believer “hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation” ~John 5:24. Paul said righteousness is counted “to him that worketh not, but believeth” ~Romans 4:5. There is no contradiction except in the theology you are trying to protect.

You are not honoring Christ by treating His apostle as though he preached another gospel. Peter called Paul’s writings Scripture and warned that men twist them “unto their own destruction” ~2 Peter 3:15-16.

The issue is not whether I listen to Christ. The issue is whether you will bow to all that Christ has spoken, including the Scripture He gave through Paul. Stop dodging the text. Either answer Romans 4:5 honestly, or admit your argument cannot survive it.

 

[bdavidc]

Putting it in modern English, so I can understand It:

But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners.​

I didn’t answer it because it’s a distraction to the OP, presuming salvation depends on our righteousness rather than keeping our end of the conditional promise. Said differently, one can stick to an agreement independent of judging the righteousness of the other party.

You have changed the label, not the doctrine. “Keeping our end of the agreement” is still human performance. If Christ does His part, but final salvation depends upon whether you successfully do yours, then Christ is not the Savior. He is merely a partner in your salvation.

Paul shuts that door completely: “Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth… his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:4-5. Grace is not God offering terms while man earns the final result. That is debt.

You accuse others of making salvation depend upon human righteousness, then turn around and make it depend upon human faithfulness. The words differ, but the poison is the same. You have simply moved boasting from the beginning of salvation to the end.

“Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?” ~Galatians 3:3.

Stop hiding works behind softer language. A contract says, “God will save me if I keep my end.” The gospel says, “He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him” ~Hebrews 7:25. One exalts man’s performance. The other exalts Christ.

 

[marks]

willfully ignorant

Listen to you, revealing your lack of cogent argument. Lashing out at others is a sign that it's time to stop.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You’re willfully ignorant

Not just me . . . you target others exactly the same way.

 

[marks]

So many of your posts reveal an immaturity, a snarky gotcha that is not worth dignifying with a response. Rather than simply answer a question, you deflect with one of your own intertwined with a personal jab.

This was happening before I came along. You don't like accountability, or so it seems.

 

[marks]

Hypotheticals are beyond your intellectual acumen

LOL!

Hypotheticals are not real, and only serve the speaker's purpose as they turn them this way and that, trying to make a point that cannot be made from reality. It's a curated set of circumstances designed for a particular purpose.

 

[Truth7t7]

That is not an answer. It is a smoke screen thrown up because Romans 4:5 stands there like a hammer and you cannot break it.

Amen!

Romans 4:5-8KJV
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[Gray_Joy]

Jesus assured us we are eternally his.
I'd advise we beware of any teaching that dares contradict Christ,who died to secure that fact.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."

 

[Stumpmaster]

You are confusing 2 things. Humble faith in Christ with confidence in his choice regarding you.

No I'm not. Look at your original post.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Here's the line that I draw; I am certain God can save me. While I believe I am saved, humility prevents me from claiming I am certain of my individual fate.

There's a lot more to the Christian faith than your position. Complete assurance of salvation is a wonderful state of grace to be in. I hope you will be humble enough to receive it.

Heb 4:16 Therefore let us come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Rom 8:14-17 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (15) For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption by which we cry, Abba, Father! (16) The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God. (17) And if we are children, then we are heirs; heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ; so that if we suffer with Him, we may also be glorified together.

 

[Armour of God]

I choose to avoid bad deeds and do good deeds. And I ask for forgiveness for my bad deeds

 

[David Lamb]

what is eternal life and how is it different than eternal salvation?

thks

Eternal life in the Bible means that marvellous never-ending life that Jesus grants to all who believe in Him.

Eternal salvation, I would say, is closely linked to eternal life. Jesus saves sinners, and that salvation is eternal, as we are told in Hebrews:

(Heb 5:9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

It is those who have been saved by Jesus Christ that are given eternal life by Him.

 

[Wrangler]

That is not an answer.

It’s an answer to your diversion that you don’t like!

 

[Wrangler]

Eternal life in the Bible means that marvellous never-ending life that Jesus grants to all who believe in Him.

Yes, as long as we recognize that real faith is not merely lip service. In today’s devotional reading

1 John 1:6-9

So we are lying if we say we have fellowship with God but go on living in spiritual darkness; we are not practicing the truth. 7 But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. 9 But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.

The theologians who vote certainty deny the conditional nature of the way, deny the meaning of if we act a certain way implies consequences if we don’t.

 

[bdavidc]

It’s an answer to your diversion that you don’t like!

Calling Scripture a diversion does not answer Scripture.

Romans 4:5 directly addresses your claim that final salvation depends upon “keeping our end of the conditional promise.” Paul says God justifies “him that worketh not, but believeth.” You answer by insisting that man must maintain his part of the agreement. That is the very human performance Paul excludes.

You have not explained Romans 4:5. You have not shown how your contract language agrees with grace. You have not quoted Christ contradicting Paul. You simply dismissed the text because it exposes your doctrine.

That is not an answer. It is evasion.

“Every word of God is pure” ~Proverbs 30:5. Romans 4:5 is not my diversion. It is God’s Word. Deal honestly with the verse instead of attaching labels to anyone who quotes it.

 

[Wrangler]

Calling Scripture a diversion does not answer Scripture.

Projecting. It is you are not answering Scripture, preferring to substitute the words of Paul with the words of our Lord and Savior who said many things to suggest we not have the arrogance expressed here:

• that he may not know us EVEN THOUGH we perform miracles in his name,
• although a recognized branch in the kingdom of God, our fate for not producing fruit is to be burned in the fire
• that only those who do the will of the father are his real brother's and sisters.
• Remain in him and he will remain in us.

This last one is of special implication for it implies we have the fearful ability to NOT remain in him. <10 sir! Less than 10!

 

[Gray_Joy]

what is eternal life and how is it different than eternal salvation?

thks

They're synonymous.

 

[David Lamb]

Yes, as long as we recognize that real faith is not merely lip service. In today’s devotional reading

1 John 1:6-9

So we are lying if we say we have fellowship with God but go on living in spiritual darkness; we are not practicing the truth. 7 But if we are living in the light, as God is in the light, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we claim we have no sin, we are only fooling ourselves and not living in the truth. 9 But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.

The theologians who vote certainty deny the conditional nature of the way, deny the meaning of if we act a certain way implies consequences if we don’t.

I agree that if we claim to be Christians, but there is absolutely no difference in our lives, our claim is spurious. As Pau wrote t the Ephesians, sinners who are saved are saved for good works:

(Eph 2:8 NKJV) For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
(Eph 2:9) not of works, lest anyone should boast.
(Eph 2:10) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.