Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

[Marilyn C]

Christ is Ruling now and always was Ruling

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God

Then He called His twelve disciples together and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases.

Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”

25But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house. 30He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.

And having come near, Jesus spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on the earth was given to Me.

John,
To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
Grace and peace to you from Him who is and was and is to come, and from the seven spirits before His throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

So i ask you again = How is it that you do not know??? = You need to read more carefully = ALL of Scripture

Jesus has the authority, however His Father has asked Him to `Sit at my right hand TILL I make your enemies your footstool.` (Ps. 110: 1)

That has not happened yet, but very soon I believe.

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus has the authority, however His Father has asked Him to `Sit at my right hand TILL I make your enemies your footstool.` (Ps. 110: 1)

That has not happened yet, but very soon I believe.

But do you know why that has not happened yet?

 

[Marilyn C]

But do you know why that has not happened yet?

Yes. Because God the Father has not as yet brought the Lord`s enemies, (nations Ps. 2) to His be His footstool. The first nation/Federation is Russia, (from the north - Zech. 6: 8 Joel 2: 20 Ez. 38: 15).

`I will turn you around and put hooks in your jaws, and lead you out.....` (Ez. 38: 4)

God the Father will do this and then the Lord will move to His own throne with His Body and rule from there. (Rev. 3: 21)

`Rule in the midst of your enemies!` (Ps. 110: 2)

 

[Truth7t7]

I'm not arguing against what you submitted. I fully agree with you. Except I don't take it to be involving a literal temple, in the event you do. I'm arguing against the idea that great tribulation begins with the DOTL, that great tribulation involves the DOTL. No it doesn't, and the OP clearly proves it doesn't. And since great tribulation can't be involving the DOTL, this tells us that great tribulation can't be involving God's wrath upon unbelieving Jews in the first century, but must be involving satan's wrath upon the church in it's closing days leading up to the end of this age. thus the 42 month reign of the beast, and not involving 70 AD instead.

The book of Revelation is seen in "Parallel" teachings of same events, not "Chronological" as dispensationalism falsely teaches

Example: Revelation 11:18 Is The One And Only Final Judgement, A Parallel Teaching Of Revelation 20:11-15 in Final Judgement

"Fact" The Scripture Below Teaches (The Beast) and (Two Witnesses) Are On This Earth Together To See The "Last Day" Where The 7th Angel Sounds (The End) In Final Judgement

You clearly see in Revelation 13:5 that (The Beast) is given 42 months/3.5 years

Revelation 13:5KJV
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

You clearly see in Revelation 11:3 that the (Two Witnesses) are given 1260 days/3.5 years

Revelation 11:3KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

You see (The Beast) killing the (Two Witnesses) upon this earth Rev 11:7, both were given 3.5 years of power, you see the (Two Witnesses) laying dead in Jerusalem for 3.5 days in the street as the world celebrates, you see the (Two Witnesses) raised to heaven as the 2nd woe in the Great earthquake takes place, the 3rd woe comes quickly in the 7th angel sounding (The End) Revelation 11:18 the final judgment (The End)

Conclusion: (The Beast) and (Two Witnesses) are present upon earth in power for the exact same time of 3.5 years in "Parallel" and this time ends in the 7th angel sounding in the second coming final judgment (The End)

Revelation 11:7-18KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[Truth7t7]

God the Father will do this and then the Lord will move to His own throne with His Body and rule from there. (Rev. 3: 21)

`Rule in the midst of your enemies!` (Ps. 110: 2)

Where is the location of the throne that the eternal glorified body of Jesus Christ is going to move to?

 

[David in NJ]

Yes. Because God the Father has not as yet brought the Lord`s enemies, (nations Ps. 2) to His be His footstool. The first nation/Federation is Russia, (from the north - Zech. 6: 8 Joel 2: 20 Ez. 38: 15).

`I will turn you around and put hooks in your jaws, and lead you out.....` (Ez. 38: 4)

God the Father will do this and then the Lord will move to His own throne with His Body and rule from there. (Rev. 3: 21)

`Rule in the midst of your enemies!` (Ps. 110: 2)

You and i were the "enemies of God"

The Jewish people are the "enemies" and "betrayers" of the only means by which they can be Saved = Romans 11:28
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,

Jew & Gentile and are the enemies of God = Romans 5:10
For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
10For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

You have not yet found the Most Important Truth as to why the LORD has not Come Back

keep reading & praying all of Scripture

 

[rwb]

Both Pretribbers and Preterists, and anyone else doing what they are wrongly doing, need to start paying closer attention to details and quit twisting the texts involved in order to get the DOTL to fit where it doesn't remotely fit.

I would argue that "great tribulation" began when the Lord came to earth a man, for that is when He ushered in the Kingdom of God that can only be known and entered when one has been born again of the Spirit. When one has been born again, just as Christ told His disciples before He departed from this earth "then shall be great tribulation" as we proclaim the Gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ to all the nations of the world. We aren't watching and waiting for the Kingdom of God to come, we're now, since the first advent of Christ, watching and waiting for the final day of the Lord when Christ will come again. Granted "great tribulation" will grow increasingly greater toward the Kingdom of God as the final day approaches nearer. But great tribulation such has never been and shall never be anything like it again, began with the coming of the Lord in His day/age/time!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We disagree, of course… what a surprise, right? <smile>

Yes, that is shocking. You normally change your mind every time I present an airtight argument to you, but not this time. Somehow.

What you say is fair enough, but what I would say, particularly about Acts 1:5 is, Pentecost was a unique, once-for-all event in salvation history that inaugurated the New Covenant church.

I would agree with that, but that does not mean the baptism of the Holy Spirit was something different then than it is still today. There is no basis for coming to that conclusion.

The baptism Jesus is talking about in Acts 1:5 is not the individual salvific baptism by the Holy Spirit that we receive when we are born again, the baptism John the Baptist is talking about in Matthew 3:11… “I baptize you with water for repentance, but He Who is coming after me is mightier than I, Whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.”

Ugh. I completely disagree. Of course it was. There are not multiple baptisms of the Holy Spirit. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is...the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Again, and stated slightly differently, what we see in Acts 1:5 is Christ promising the extraordinary outpouring of the Spirit that would empower the apostles and establish the church. And yes, this is what happened at Pentecost. It’s actually a complete reversal of what happened at the Tower of Babel… instead of confusion, everyone heard the Gospel in his own tongue.

Yes, it was extraordinary, but it was an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit came to dwell in people permanently that day just as He still does today. Just because it was an extraordinary event doesn't mean we can claim there are multiple types of baptisms of the Holy Spirit or multiple types of outpouring of the Holy Spirit. As we know, there are several different types of spiritual gifts that people receive when baptized with the Holy Spirit and it so happens that the spiritual gift of tongues was given on that day for the purpose of making it clear to everyone that things had changed with the ushering in of the better new covenant.

As for Acts 2:38, the outward act of baptism is a sign of God’s promise… a sacrament given to us by God to remind us all of God’s granting of salvation and His grace in doing so; it is not conferring of salvation on the baptized (no man can possibly do that), but a calling on God’s promise of salvation through Christ Jesus.

I did not say that water baptism is necessary for salvation. The reference to being baptized for the remission of sins was to be water baptized because of the remission of sins that occurs upon receiving and being baptized with the Holy Spirit. If you look at Acts 10:34-47, you can see that the Gentiles that Peter preached to were water baptized after receiving the Holy Spirit, so it's not something required in order to receive the Holy Spirit and be saved.

In this way it is a 1:1 correlation to the Old Testament sign, circumcision, having replaced the Old Testament sign, as can be seen in Colossians 2:11-12… “In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the powerful working of God, Who raised him from the dead.” And as such it is not to be withheld from anyone, regardless of any reason, even age, so even babies... <smile> …”the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off.”

That last bolded part is reeeeeerrally important… <smile> …”the powerful working of God.” Which fits perfectly with what Paul says, too, in Ephesians 2:4-10, particularly “But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved… ~ by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

These passages rule out even our belief as the reason for our salvation, because even our belief is “something we do” and therefore by definition a work.

You didn't need to convince me that water baptism is not required for salvation. I never said it was. But, as for faith not being something we do...that just blatantly contradicts many scriptures.

Acts 16:30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

What we must we DO to be saved? You say nothing. Scripture says: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved". What scripture says is that we ARE saved through faith, but NOT by works. That means faith is not a work. Otherwise, what Paul said in Ephesians 2:8-9 would be nonsense. And he made it clear that faith is not a work here as well...

Romans 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Who believed? Abraham did. That's something he did and "it was accounted to him for righteousness". It didn't mean he was righteous in and of itself, it meant that he did what was right by doing what God requires people to do in order to be saved. He didn't prove that he was righteous enough to be saved, he proved that he trusted in God alone for salvation rather than himself or anyone else. Did Abraham work for his salvation because of his faith? No, it specifically says "to him who DOES NOT WORK BUT BELIEVES on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness".

To your final statement that “repentance and faith precede the baptism of the Holy Spirit,” this is kind of a… discombobulated… statement…. I would say,

No, it's a very straightforward statement that a young child can understand.

rather, that this baptism by the Spirit and being born again of the Spirit are… well, I’ll say either a) one and the same event… two ways of saying the same thing, or b) simultaneous events…

At the very least they are simultaneous events and occur after repentance and faith. As verses like Acts 2:38 indicate. Peter said that they needed to repent and then after that people would receive the Holy Spirit. Receiving the Holy Spirit involves the baptism and regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

but in either case God’s having mercy and compassion on the person and the conferring of salvation upon us… in God’s own words, through Ezekiel (36:25-27), “I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes and be careful to obey My rules.”

Yes, that happens after repentance and faith, according to Peter. The order is explicitly clear. 1) Repent 2) Receive the Holy Spirit

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And as I have pointed out many times, Jesus is very clear in John 6, 8, and 10 especially that, we believe because we have received this grace of salvation, because we have been born again of the Spirit and are thus of God and no longer of our former father the devil and only desiring to do his will… that, as He says in John 10 particularly, we believe because we are His sheep, having been given to Him by His Father, and therefore we hear His voice and we know and follow Him… not the other way around. Salvation is from and of the Lord.

You have been clear in how you interpret John 6, 8 and 10, but I believe you interpret those in a way that contradicts many other scriptures. Let's take a closer look at what Jesus was saying in John 10:26. I'll include some surrounding verses for context.

John 10:22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

You are trying to say that we believe because we are His sheep and that is your understanding of John 10:26. That means you think that we are already His sheep even before we believe. So, because of already being His sheep even before we believe, that's why we believe. Is that really what Jesus is saying there? Not at all.

I'm sure you are aware that at that time there was only a remnant of believers, as Paul talked about in Romans 11:5-7. And the rest were blinded/hardened, as Paul said in Romans 11:7. So, the remnant were Christ's sheep and the rest were not, right? And that was of the first fold Jesus mentioned even though He also mentioned having another fold (Gentile believers) and that He would make both folds into one fold.

Anyway, regarding that first fold of Israelite believers, you think them being His sheep at that time was determined before the foundation of the world. And that means you think that those who were not His sheep at that time who He said did not believe because they were not His sheep could never be His sheep since that was already determined before the foundation of the world? But, that is false. If you read Romans 11:11-14, you can see that some of those Israelites who were blinded back then and were not Christ's sheep at the time ended up being saved later and becoming His sheep when they believed. They were not blinded permanently or else Paul would not have talked of hoping to lead some of them to salvation.

So, what I'm getting at above is that some of those who Jesus said were not His sheep and did not believe at that time, later became part of His sheep fold. Your understanding of John 10:26 does not allow for that, yet that is clearly what happened. So, Jesus was not saying that people are His sheep even before they believe and they believe because of being His sheep. No. That would contradict what Paul wrote in Romans 11. Jesus was describing a present reality for those who were not His sheep at the time in John 10:26 and not saying that His sheep were already determined before the foundation of the world nor saying that those who were not His sheep and did not believe at that time could not later become His sheep after putting their faith in Him.

Look at what Jesus says a little later after what He said to those who were not His sheep in John 10:26-27.

John 10:37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”

If He was telling them in John 10:26, as you think is the case, that they could not believe because they were not His sheep, then why does He shortly after that tell them to believe in Him because of the works of God the Father that He did? He clearly indicated that they were still capable of believing even though they had not believed and were not His sheep up to that point. That contradicts your understanding of John 10:26. And, as I pointed out, it also contradicts what Paul indicated about them in Romans 11.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Be careful who you are accusing

"Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field that the LORD God had made.
And he said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden?’”

"pre-trib" rapture is Serpent speak: "Did Jesus really say He comes after the Tribulation"

Whose side are you on???

The Serpent who questions the clear words of God
or
The LORD Jesus Christ who Says:
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn,
and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Your accuations are baseless.
Then you post a verse declaring angels gather ( not Jesus) , in heaven ( not earth).
Plain crazy how you try and fool yourself that the rapture of the church is after the trib.



The serpent would be proud of you.
Perverting the bible over and over.
You Getting in bed with satan is your high ground?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Have you looked at the Old Testament scriptures concerning the `wife` and God the `husband?` Do you realize that Jesus confirmed the promises to Israel of God `marrying` them again after their divorce? Have you read where the Old Testament Saints are promised the city? (Heb. 11: 16)

Speaking of `bizarre,` I think bizarre is men thinking they are a `bride,` when God says there is NO male or female in the Body of Christ. Do you go and tell young men especially, "Come to Jesus and be His bride?" I bet you don`t. Why not, if you so passionately believe you are a female bride!!!!!

Your message is either:
" no such thing as the bride of Christ"
Or
"Only women can be the bride of Christ"
Or
You have possibly tried to process God's word, and it offends you, so you accuse men that read and process scripture of being perverts ( women),( or some other defective silliness)

Your claims are way way out there
.
Just stay away from any reference to the bride of Christ.
Reading Hosea or Ruth really gets deep in the bride / wife analogy
Those bible analogies are way way over your head.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Israel in God`s word is called - as a wife, the Body of Christ is the New Man, and the city is AS a bride. The city is not a bride but has something similar - righteousness. The Old Testament Saints were made righteous, (Heb. 11: 4 etc) and were promised the city. (Heb. 11: 16)

Well that is progress.
But miles away from unpacking the bride/wife dynamic.
Maybe just drop it or open your heart to truth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your accuations are baseless.
Then you post a verse declaring angels gather ( not Jesus) , in heaven ( not earth).

Not gathering from earth? Think again.

Mark 13:27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

Plain crazy how you try and fool yourself that the rapture of the church is after the trib.

Despite Jesus explicitly saying so, you think it's "plain crazy" for someone to believe that. I would say THAT is plain crazy.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I know what is behind resistance to the bride and wife study.

Has a smell to it big time.

SMH

The heart of the bible.
The actual core of God, and heaven....and 90% of believers are clueless.

What?????
Seems impossible..but it proves the masses of Christians are indeed offended by God's word.
Without the bride and wife dynamic, end times will be a shallow discussion, without a clue as to what is actually happening....as we see here daily.

The 7 yr trib has purpose.
What is it? ( please do not answer)
The rapture has a purpose.
What is it? ( please do not answer)
Nobody here knows either purpose.

....and yet flail wildly at the leaves of the tree.
Pure guesswork.

 

[David in NJ]

Your accuations are baseless.
Then you post a verse declaring angels gather ( not Jesus) , in heaven ( not earth).
Plain crazy how you try and fool yourself that the rapture of the church is after the trib.



The serpent would be proud of you.
Perverting the bible over and over.
You Getting in bed with satan is your high ground?

pre-trib sssays: "Did Jesus really say He is Coming after the Tribulation to gather His Elect..."

pre-trib sssays: Matt 24:29-31 is not for His Elect christians but only for the Jews

pre-trib sssays: rapture BEFORE the Resurrection

The HOLY SPIRIT Says "Resurrection before the rapture"

JESUS Says: "to whom you obey you will be their slave"

 

[rebuilder 454]

Confusion leads to man-made estimations

At least you have the MOST IMPORTANT Truth =

All truth is important.
The ones that offend you , your remedy is omission.

I made it my business to know the bible and your pathetic doctrine of no verses.

That's the difference and why you can not debate me honestly.

 

[rebuilder 454]

pre-trib sssays: "Did Jesus really say He is Coming after the Tribulation to gather His Elect..."

pre-trib sssays: Matt 24:29-31 is not for His Elect christians but only for the Jews

pre-trib sssays: rapture BEFORE the Resurrection

The HOLY SPIRIT Says "Resurrection before the rapture"

JESUS Says: "to whom you obey you will be their slave"

No.
Not even close.
EVERY PRETRIBBER KNOWS FOR A FACT that Jesus returns after the 7 yr trib.

You don't even know what we believe.
You ASSUME what men told you.
That is why I run circles around you.

Rev 14:14 is a gathering BEFORE rev 19, (the Second coming.)
Look at your nonsense of "pretribbers believe a rapture before the resurrection"
Look at your weird assumption.
Flat out bizarre.
Psssst...you just placed the supposed "rapture after the 7 yr trib", AFTER the gathering DURING THE TRIB, of rev 14 :14.

Rev 14:14 gathering is BEFORE THE SECOND COMING.
SEE THAT??????
Your false doctrine has the dead in Christ, rising AFTER the gathering of rev 14:14.

I just sank your entire navy, and you are clueless.

 

[rebuilder 454]

pre-trib sssays: "Did Jesus really say He is Coming after the Tribulation to gather His Elect..."

pre-trib sssays: Matt 24:29-31 is not for His Elect christians but only for the Jews

pre-trib sssays: rapture BEFORE the Resurrection

The HOLY SPIRIT Says "Resurrection before the rapture"

JESUS Says: "to whom you obey you will be their slave"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^

PRICELESS.
100% FALSE AND INVERTED.

 

[Truth7t7]

But great tribulation such has never been and shall never be anything like it again, began with the coming of the Lord in His day/age/time!

I Strongly Disagree With Your Preterist Claim Of The "Great Tribulation" Taking Place In The 1st Century

You will closely note that the "Great Tribulation" takes place in verse 21 seen below, you will closely note that "Immediately" after this "Great Tribulation" the "Future", literal, visible, second coming takes place, any reasonable person knows that this second coming is "Future" unfulfilled, it's that simple

Conclusion: Reformed preterist eschatology's many claims are wrong, as it bends and twists the very clear scripture trying to establish 1st century fulfillment "Wrong"!

A Few Examples Of Reformed Preterist Eschatology's False Claims:

1.) Jesus isn't returning literally and visibly as shown in verse 30 below, it all equates to a judgement of the Jews/Israel by Jesus from his throne in heaven, using Roman Armies in 70AD Jerusalem's destruction as his agents for judgement

2.) The "Great Tribulation" has been taking place for 2,000 years and it will end at a future second coming of Jesus

Matthew 24:21 & 29-31KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I know what is behind resistance to the bride and wife study.

Has a smell to it big time.

SMH

The heart of the bible.
The actual core of God, and heaven....and 90% of believers are clueless.

What?????
Seems impossible..but it proves the masses of Christians are indeed offended by God's word.
Without the bride and wife dynamic, end times will be a shallow discussion, without a clue as to what is actually happening....as we see here daily.

The 7 yr trib has purpose.
What is it? ( please do not answer)
The rapture has a purpose.
What is it? ( please do not answer)
Nobody here knows either purpose.

....and yet flail wildly at the leaves of the tree.
Pure guesswork.