Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

[amigo de christo]

Are we not to believe every word Spoken by GOD = Matt 4:4

many now in christendom even beleive they wear the white garments .
But only wear the strange and diverse garments of a harlot that by her love has led and is leading them to a lie .
Their garments are rotted and moth eaten and their leaders have heaped and steeped up riches
by which they had FLEECED these flocks , for the last days . Their treasure is full of rust
and the know not nor have not THE TRUE RICHES OF GOD .
THOSE WHOSE FAITH BE IN GOD , THUS IN HIS CHRIST are the RICH IN faith .
And no matter what cometh against them , THE KING shall be with them
even unto persecutions and even in the hour they are led to their own death .
And all who beleive IN JESUS shall never die but live forever with HE who has saved and HE who had kept
them safe and far from DECIEVERS and their lies , of which are many now .
JESUS has the sheep . AND its upon HIS EVERY BLADE OF GREEN GRASS that they do eat .
HIS EVERY WORD is their meat and if even a patch of mixture of grass and weed cometh up
BY grace they have the nostrils , the eyes and the ears TO Eat not of that filthy dung infested stuff .
FOR YE CANNOT blend the TRUTH and a lie . FOR all that is , IS A LIE .

 

[amigo de christo]

Are we not to believe every word Spoken by GOD = Matt 4:4

It is either truth and thus true , or its a lie and thus false .
But it cannot , will not ever be , BOTH .
HERE is who uses truth and a lie .
SURELY YE SHALL NOT DIE . A LIE , for in that day your eyes shall be opened and ye shall become as gods to know
that was truth . but used in a way to support a LIE which had said YE SHALL NOT DIE .
that IS HOW THE SEREPENT works and sadly a whole lot of folks in wool seem to be doing as well .
Not many , not most , not few , BUT NO LIE is of the T RUTH . no mat ter
how small it might seem , OH IT IS A LIE and that the sheep DO NOT and WILL NOT BUY .
FOR GREATER IS HE that is in the sheep than the father of lies who is n the world . JESUS has THE SHEEP david .
AND unto HE we owe all . HE who dishonors the SON , has not the FATHER OR THE SON but has
only wrath to face on JUDGMENT day .
And beleive me when i say that SIN and a lie and lies DO NOT HONOR THE SON OR THE FATHER .
but aint it odd that many follow a jesus that seems to do such . that seems to allow sins and EVEN UNBELEIF
to remain upon this people and has them trusting in a inclusive god of what they think is love and loving
but leads them all only to their own destruction .
TO THE KING of Kings and LORD of Lords IS WHO WE OWE ALL HONOR , and to GIVE ALL GLORY unto .
And calling JESUS a liar , DOES NOT GIVE H IM GLORY and it does not GIVE GOD
who testified on the SON any honor . IT CALLS HIM A LIAR . someone is lying to this people david .
Someone who is very wise and highly subtile an dvery crafity
has spun unto them a diverse inclusive web of what it says IS LOVE and it claims is of GOD .
But reader and all beware , for in its center lies NOT GOD but another one who has always desired to be AS GOD
and has always desired the death and destruction of humanity. OH it is a liar all right . and many
seem to love a lie and NOT THE TRUTH .

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The New Man has both male and female characteristics as there is no male or female in the Body of Christ.

Yes, ALL scripture - what about these scriptures?

For your Maker is your HUSBAND, the Lord of hosts is His name; and your redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth. For the Lord has called you like a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, like a youthful wife when you were refused,` says your God.` (Isa. 54: 5 & 6)

`I will betroth you to me for ever; Yes, I will betroth you to me in righteousness and justice, in loving kindness and mercy; I will betroth you to me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord.` (Hos. 2: 19 & 20)

What about them? They show that only believers are part of the bride of Christ. The New Testament shows that Gentile believers are made one with Jewish believers and are fellow citizens and fellow heirs with Jewish believers, so all of God's promises to Israel apply only to believers, whether Jew or Gentile. That's what you are not understanding.

Rev. 21 is about the city is as I showed the inheritance of the Old Testament Saints. Heb. 11: 16.

It's a symbolic reference to the church. It's not a literal city.

And the `promise?` `That we might receive the PROMISE of the Spirit through faith. ` (Gal. 3: 15)

It's not only that. We are promised to inherit the new heavens and new earth where only righteousness will dwell.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

The believers in the Body of Christ have the inheritance of ruling with the Lord on His own throne in the highest.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne...` (Rev. 3: 21)

All believers from all-time are in the body of Christ. Your repeated attempts to divide God's people are unacceptable. All believers from all-time are one in Jesus Christ. There is no other name by which anyone ever has or will be saved (Acts 4:12). Old Testament believers are part of the Body of Christ every bit as much as we are.

1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Symbolism is used by those who refuse to accept the literal readings of text

You can't back up this false claim, so why make it? Do you think that the entire book of Revelation has only literal text?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Quite the contrary my friend . ITS YOU who need to be looking for Christ .
For it is also you that do not see clearly the signs of the times .
WAY and much farther along are we . This ecumiencal intefaith IS THE JUDGMENT OF GOD
against all who loved a lie and had embraced a lie . IT IS THE LIE and it has come cloaked
as though it be the peace plan of GOD when it has clearly denied the very peace plan of GOD .
WHAT IS the peace plan of GOD . TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST so as one can be reconciled
to and have peace with GOD . but its intefaith interreligious dialgoue HAS DENEID THIS
as it hollers ALL religoins serve the same GOD in different and diverse ways .
KINDA ODD dont ya think . WHEN ONLY JESUS , IS THE ONLY WAY and to be saved and have peace
with GOD , ONE MUST Believe . Yalls popes , yalls nar realm , yalls bidens and yalls TRUMP
cannot save you . THEY ALL are co helpers to and co supporters of that one lie .
SO now a word . CURSED is the man whose hope be in man
but BLESSED be the man whose hope bE IN GOD thus in HIS CHRIST , thus would have been IN ALL THINGS
he taught . SO again i say FLEE any , flee all , flee who ever and whaterver is anyway
connected to the inclusive god called satan and its interfiath of anti christ peace plan . AN D NOW .
cause guess what these co workers of satan actually beleive
this lie , this merger with anti christ and the beast is gonna bring them , PEACE N SAFETY .
And now a word .
FOR WHEN they shall say peace n safety , THEN SUDDEN destruction shall come upon them all and they will NOT escape .
YOU have had me pegged wrong all along . I do b e watching
and what i say to one i say to all watch . CAUSE THAT DOOR will close in an instant
and by the signs of the times , WATCH . cause all outside shall wail .
AND beleieve you me any false religoin as well as anyone within christendom dressed in wool
WHO HAS ANYTHING to do AT ALL with this ecumeincal intefaith , OH THEY GONNA WAIL , only it will be TOO LATE .

You just chastised me for looking for Christ.
You prove my point.
You are in fact waiting and watching for the false christ.
You did that to yourself.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It is either truth and thus true , or its a lie and thus false .
But it cannot , will not ever be , BOTH .
HERE is who uses truth and a lie .
SURELY YE SHALL NOT DIE . A LIE , for in that day your eyes shall be opened and ye shall become as gods to know
that was truth . but used in a way to support a LIE which had said YE SHALL NOT DIE .
that IS HOW THE SEREPENT works and sadly a whole lot of folks in wool seem to be doing as well .
Not many , not most , not few , BUT NO LIE is of the T RUTH . no mat ter
how small it might seem , OH IT IS A LIE and that the sheep DO NOT and WILL NOT BUY .
FOR GREATER IS HE that is in the sheep than the father of lies who is n the world . JESUS has THE SHEEP david .
AND unto HE we owe all . HE who dishonors the SON , has not the FATHER OR THE SON but has
only wrath to face on JUDGMENT day .
And beleive me when i say that SIN and a lie and lies DO NOT HONOR THE SON OR THE FATHER .
but aint it odd that many follow a jesus that seems to do such . that seems to allow sins and EVEN UNBELEIF
to remain upon this people and has them trusting in a inclusive god of what they think is love and loving
but leads them all only to their own destruction .
TO THE KING of Kings and LORD of Lords IS WHO WE OWE ALL HONOR , and to GIVE ALL GLORY unto .
And calling JESUS a liar , DOES NOT GIVE H IM GLORY and it does not GIVE GOD
who testified on the SON any honor . IT CALLS HIM A LIAR . someone is lying to this people david .
Someone who is very wise and highly subtile an dvery crafity
has spun unto them a diverse inclusive web of what it says IS LOVE and it claims is of GOD .
But reader and all beware , for in its center lies NOT GOD but another one who has always desired to be AS GOD
and has always desired the death and destruction of humanity. OH it is a liar all right . and many
seem to love a lie and NOT THE TRUTH .

...and yet Jesus taught a pretrib rapture 4 separate times and you call him a liar.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Are you saying that by omitting "before the flood" is the pre-trib setting???

JESUS and myself have not omitted anything!!!!

The "blinder" and the error of 'pre-trib' is to rearrange who is taken and who is left.

JESUS Says "those who did not believe God that a Flood was Coming did not enter the Ark and as a result =
the Flood swept/took them away"

JESUS Says, Noah knew the Flood was Coming and by faith Noah built the Ark as God Commanded = Noah remained

By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.

You omitted the verses.
Then say you didn't.
Convincing yourself of that are we?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Are you saying that by omitting "before the flood" is the pre-trib setting???

JESUS and myself have not omitted anything!!!!

The "blinder" and the error of 'pre-trib' is to rearrange who is taken and who is left.

JESUS Says "those who did not believe God that a Flood was Coming did not enter the Ark and as a result =
the Flood swept/took them away"

JESUS Says, Noah knew the Flood was Coming and by faith Noah built the Ark as God Commanded = Noah remained

By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, in reverent fear constructed an ark for the saving of his household. By this he condemned the world and became an heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.

What exactly are you doing ?

Showing me 50 times how you omit the components of Jesus's analogy.?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

...and yet Jesus taught a pretrib rapture 4 separate times and you call him a liar.

Stop falsely accusing people. That is evil. No one here would ever call Jesus a liar. What you need to do is define the "trib" part of "pretrib" so that people can know what you're talking about. You define the "trib" as God's wrath because you compare it to the flood of Noah's day, which obviously was God's wrath. Most people define the "trib" part of "pretrib" or "post-trib" as referring to "the tribulation of those days" that Jesus referenced in Matthew 24:29 and Mark 13:24. And Jesus made it clear that the rapture will occur post-trib in relation to "the tribulation of those days". So, why not address what people actually believe instead of accusing them of saying that the rapture will occur after Christ's wrath occurs, which no one claims? You continue ranting against people while making a strawman argument. So, you're basically ranting and making accusations against a non-existent strawman. You need to start addressing what people actually believe instead.

Here's what Jesus said.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.

So, what we can gather from what Jesus said here is that just as the flood took everyone but those who were in the ark (Noah and his family) away (killed them all), Jesus said "so also will the coming of the Son of Man be". That means He's saying His wrath on the day He comes will be like what happened with the flood in Noah's day when it killed all unbelievers. In your view, you are defining the tribulation as God's wrath that occurs when Jesus comes. So, in your mind, a pretrib rapture means that the rapture occurs before the wrath of the Son of Man occurs. We all believe that. So, in that sense, we are all pretrib. Do you understand what I'm saying?

But, the confusion comes in because you define the trib as the wrath of Christ that comes when the Son of Man comes and you compare it to the flood of Noah's day. Everyone else sees the trib as "the tribulation of those days" that lead up to His second coming before His wrath occurs. In relation to "the tribulation of those days", the rapture is clearly post-trib, as passages like Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 indicate. In relation to the wrath Jesus talked about in relation to His second coming that He compared to the flood in Noah's day, the rapture would be pre-trib or pre-wrath.

So, please make an effort to be more clear in order to avoid confusion and stop making false accusations towards others just because of defining terms differently than others do. The real debate here should be over what happens when one is taken and one is left? We all agree (except preterists, I guess) that when one is taken and one is left, it relates to the rapture. In your view the ones taken are the ones raptured. I agree with that. The Greek word translated as "taken" in the verses that talk about one being taken and one left indicates as such. We will be taken up to meet Christ in the air. The Greek word supports that understanding. But, the question then becomes, what happens to those who are left? In my view, they are all killed because that's what happened to those who were not in the ark in Noah's day. They were all killed. And Jesus answered that the location of where it will take place that one is taken and one is left is where the eagles or vultures are gathered around dead bodies. So, that also indicates that the ones who are left behind are killed.

Anyway, that's how I see it. You can see I'm making the effort to be as detailed as possible to show why I believe what I do. You can choose to agree or disagree without making false accusations and while having an understanding of how I and most others use the terms "pretrib" and "post-trib", which doesn't match how you use those terms. With that understanding, you can address what we actually believe instead of misunderstanding what we believe and then making offensive and unnecessary accusations that we're saying Jesus is lying and such.

 

[David in NJ]

...and yet Jesus taught a pretrib rapture 4 separate times and you call him a liar.

Let God be True an devery man a liar - Romans 3:4

Please post the exact scripture where the LORD Says: "I will pre-trib rapture my Elect/Church/Saints/Bride"