The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

[Spiritual Israelite]

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Is Zechariah 14:4 a prophecy about the second coming of Christ? | GotQuestions.org

Is Zechariah 14:4 a prophecy about the second coming of Christ? Why is Jesus going to return at the Mount of Olives?

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Zechariah 14:4 predicts, “On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the Mount moving north and half moving south.” “That day” is a reference to the Day of the Lord, and the One who stands on the mountain is the Lord Himself. So, yes, this passage predicts the second coming of Christ.

The opening of Zechariah 14 speaks of a future day when Jerusalem will be plundered by its enemies. Verse 2 prophesies that all nations will gather against Jerusalem and capture and ransack the city. Half of the citizens of Jerusalem will flee the devastation, but the other half will remain. This will be one half of the one third of the Jewish population still alive in Jerusalem after the Tribulation (13:8). Then, Zechariah says, the Lord Himself will go forth and engage these opponents in battle (14:3). Verse 4 speaks of the Messiah standing on the Mount of Olives, a hill near Jerusalem on the east. The mountain will split, creating an enormous valley. Since none of this has taken place yet, the prophecy points to a future time.

A parallel passage tells of the Battle of Armageddon (Revelation 19:11-21). Revelation 16:18-21 predicts horrible events at the end of the Tribulation when the seventh bowl is poured out:

“Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since man has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. . . . Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. From the sky huge hailstones of about a hundred pounds each fell upon men. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.”

The earthquake in Revelation could very well speak of the event described in Zechariah when the Mount of Olives splits in two. Jesus the Messiah will cause an earthquake at His second coming that will serve as part of the destruction of God’s enemies. The outcome of this battle is never in doubt: Christ will be the victor, Israel’s enemies will be destroyed, and the beast (Antichrist) and false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:11-21).

You referenced Zechariah 13:8 in a futurist sense. What is your understanding of the verse immediately preceding that one?

Zechariah 13:7 “Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, Against the Man who is My Companion,” Says the Lord of hosts. “Strike the Shepherd,
And the sheep will be scattered; Then I will turn My hand against the little ones.

How do you interpret the following passage...

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the [i]punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the Lord of hosts. Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

How do you interpret this passage...

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So he thinks Daniel chapter 10 is people not angles? Wow

Yes. This is why he is not someone who can be taken seriously. Anyone who believes such extreme nonsense as that is not someone who has any credibility.

 

[rwb]

Yes of course haven't disputed that

You haven't??? Why do you continue to argue "great tribulation" Christ foretells pertains to 70 AD? When in fact the Bible calls what happened in 70 AD the wrath of God being poured out upon an apostate disobedient nation!

 

[Marty fox]

Yes. This is why he is not someone who can be taken seriously. Anyone who believes such extreme nonsense as that is not someone who has any credibility.

Well it all make scence now

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You haven't??? Why do you continue to argue "great tribulation" Christ foretells pertains to 70 AD? When in fact the Bible calls what happened in 70 AD the wrath of God being poured out upon an apostate disobedient nation!

God's wrath can be described as great tribulation just as it is in Revelation 2:22...

Revelation 2:20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

To be clear, I'm not saying this is the same "great tribulation" as Matthew 24:21. I'm just showing that God's wrath can be called "great tribulation" just as it is here in this passage.

Jesus referred to what was going to happen to Jerusalem as "great distress in the land and wrath upon this people" (Luke 21:23). So, He associated "great distress", which is the same as great tribulation, with God's "wrath upon this people".

 

[Marty fox]

You haven't??? Why do you continue to argue "great tribulation" Christ foretells pertains to 70 AD? When in fact the Bible calls what happened in 70 AD the wrath of God being poured out upon an apostate disobedient nation!

Because I've explained a few times now that "the great tribulation" in Revelation 7 is on the church, the same events as Matthew 24:9 and the wrath of God upon apostate Isreal was a great tribulation time period for them.


If you can't see that and separate them then I can't explain it anymore

 

[Marty fox]

God's wrath can be described as great tribulation just as it is in Revelation 2:22...

Revelation 2:20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

To be clear, I'm not saying this is the same "great tribulation" as Matthew 24:21. I'm just showing that God's wrath can be called "great tribulation" just as it is here in this passage.

Jesus referred to what was going to happen to Jerusalem as "great distress in the land and wrath upon this people" (Luke 21:23). So, He associated "great distress", which is the same as great tribulation, with God's "wrath upon this people".

Yes exactly

 

[rwb]

Preterists both part and full would do well to learn the difference between wrath that comes from God and great tribulation that comes from the world, the flesh and the devil. Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God are related but distinct events in biblical prophecy, with great tribulation focusing on persecution and suffering of faithful saints, and the Wrath of God representing divine judgment against sin and rebellion.

 

[Marty fox]

Preterists both part and full would do well to learn the difference between wrath that comes from God and great tribulation that comes from the world, the flesh and the devil. Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God are related but distinct events in biblical prophecy, with great tribulation focusing on persecution and suffering of faithful saints, and the Wrath of God representing divine judgment against sin and rebellion.

We agree here in your second sentence, but the wrath of God is also a tribulation time period for the ones who the wrath falls upon

 

[rwb]

Yes exactly

Rev 2:22 is written to the church warning of great tribulation that shall come upon them who say they belong to Christ and do not. The Bible does not make a distinction between those in the church who have been born again, and those in the church who are in fact false prophets, liars and deceivers. Like I've repeatedly said, Christ warns His saints that "great tribulation" would come upon THEM if they fail to repent for allowing evil to exist within the church.

 

[rwb]

We agree here in your second sentence, but the wrath of God is also a tribulation time period for the ones who the wrath falls upon

I understand why the Preterit must argue both! But you fail to acknowledge that God says the church is called to endure great tribulation, while those in unbelief shall receive the wrath of God. Since you think they are great tribulation and the wrath of God are interchangeable, will you also argue the reverse? IOW do you also believe faithful saints through disobedience will receive wrath of God?

 

[Marty fox]

I understand why the Preterit must argue both! But you fail to acknowledge that God says the church is called to endure great tribulation, while those in unbelief shall receive the wrath of God. Since you think they are great tribulation and the wrath of God are interchangeable, will you also argue the reverse? IOW do you also believe faithful saints through disobedience will receive wrath of God?

No, and I don't fail to see at God says the church is called to endure great tribulation, while those in unbelief shall receive the wrath of God.


Your just stuck on words and not even trying to see what I have explained multiple times. Words can have different meaning

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Preterists both part and full would do well to learn the difference between wrath that comes from God and great tribulation that comes from the world, the flesh and the devil. Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God are related but distinct events in biblical prophecy,

So, I'll have to assume that you have me on your ignore list because I showed you a clear example in scripture where God's wrath is referred to as "great tribulation". But, here you are still denying that God's wrath can be described as "great tribulation"

Revelation 2:20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Rev 2:22 is written to the church warning of great tribulation that shall come upon them who say they belong to Christ and do not.

It refers to those who are like Jezebel who was practicing sexual immorality and eating food sacrificed to idols and influencing others to do the same. In that verse, "great tribulation" refers to God's wrath that comes against those who refuse to repent. Yet, you try to say that God's wrath cannot ever be described as "great tribulation". That verse proves otherwise.

The Bible does not make a distinction between those in the church who have been born again, and those in the church who are in fact false prophets, liars and deceivers. Like I've repeatedly said, Christ warns His saints that "great tribulation" would come upon THEM if they fail to repent for allowing evil to exist within the church.

And that "great tribulation" is in the form of God's wrath, so why do you say that God's wrath can't ever be described as "great tribulation"?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I understand why the Preterit must argue both!

No, those who are honest with scripture argue both. You don't have to be a preterist to interpret Matthew 24:15-21 (Mark 13:14-20, Luke 21:20-24) as being God's wrath against the Jews in 70 AD.

But you fail to acknowledge that God says the church is called to endure great tribulation, while those in unbelief shall receive the wrath of God.

In Revelation 2:22, would you not call "great tribulation", that Jesus said would come against Jezebel and anyone else in that church who refused to repent while practicing sexual immorality and eating food sacrificed to idols, God's wrath?

Since you think they are great tribulation and the wrath of God are interchangeable, will you also argue the reverse? IOW do you also believe faithful saints through disobedience will receive wrath of God?

What a ridiculous question. All he and I are showing you is that God's wrath CAN be referred to as "great tribulation". We're not saying that great tribulation is always God's wrath.