The messiah didn't come yet.

[Eliyahu613]

It is in the New Testament. Thus, you can't ever disprove J-man's flesh resurrection. We can say it was a good thing, and that your barkochbas/failed messiah didn't need this prophecy. You don't have any prediction that have come true after Rome's first war with Israel, or perhaps just Judah.

Bs"d

The NT is written after the death of JC. So those supposed NT prophecies are written after the fact. And that of course disqualifies them as prophecies. Prophecies are about thing to happen in the future, not in the past.

And we have very strong predictions coming true, even until this day. See here: Sign

 

[rockytopva]

Messianic ministries coming alive... Here we have a Messianic Rabbi Zev Porat whose youtube site at messiah ofisrael is now above 125,000,000 views.... Biography - Bio - Messiah of Israel Ministries

 

[Eliyahu613]

I’m curious what @Bombastic thinks of this thread topic?

 

[rockytopva]

View attachment 86367

Dear Sir:

Time to read the rules!

*** This forum is intended for a Christian audience. Those who are not of the Christian faith are welcome to sign up but will be relegated to the five bottom forums. Any derogatory remarks about God (including the Son and Holy Spirit) will be removed. The same goes for remarks about Christianity. Do not hold the Bible to be the Word of God? We are not interested, then.

If you are going to come here to belittle Christianity your membership will be revoked and it will be a nice knowing you! Hope things work out well for you on the great judgement day!

 

[rockytopva]

@MonoBiblical ... Reopened ...

 

[MonoBiblical]

Bs"d

The NT is written after the death of JC. So those supposed NT prophecies are written after the fact. And that of course disqualifies them as prophecies. Prophecies are about thing to happen in the future, not in the past.

And we have very strong predictions coming true, even until this day. See here: Sign

The prophecy claims to be from an old translation of an Aramaic-Hebrew original. You cannot prove it was written after the fact. You seem to think raising someone from the dead is demonic. And what about the Medieval Greek mosaic in Jerusalem?

This indicates that Modern Jews found a land and pretended or deluded themselves into thinking it was ancient Israel. No further prophecies are fulfilled or will be fulfilled. And I predict that with confidence.

And if you complain about "NT errors", what about the "rewritten" Pentateuch and the 2 missing Shavuot festivals? Those are serious blunders.

 

[Wrangler]

View attachment 86367

Agreed. @Bombastic is new and very academic. So, I thought he'd have a lot to say on the matter. Unfortunately, his bravado and bombast dissipates readily in the presence of those like you and me with good reasons not to agree with his brand of Calvinism. I wish him well in his pursuing other interests.

 

[Eliyahu613]

No, that conclusion is not required by the text. It comes from reading the entire prophecy as if every part had to happen at the Messiah's first appearance. The Old Testament often combines events that are fulfilled at different times. Jesus Himself recognized this pattern.

Bs"d

So you admit that the most important part of this prophecy is not fulfilled.

For example, in Isaiah 61:1-2, Jesus read only the part about preaching good news and stopped before the words about "the day of vengeance of our God" because that part belongs to His future coming (Luke 4:16-21). So a single prophecy can contain both the first and second coming of the Messiah.

Micah 5 is another example.

The first part is unquestionably about the Messiah:

But thou, Bethlehem Ephrathah, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall one come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting. (Micah 5:2, ASV)

And also that one is unquestionable not fulfilled.

And by the way, that part about "whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.'" just doesn't exist:

Days of eternity

 

[LoveYeshua]

So lovely it is when one points to THE CHRIST OF GOD ALL MIGHTY , JESUS THE MESSIAH .
And now i leave us with his own words .
FOR this cause came i into the world and for this reason was i born
TO TESTIFY OF THE TRUTH , all who are of THE TRUTH come to me .
IF they hear not the law , if they hear not the prophets , THEY will not be convinced though one rose FROM the dead .
EVEN abraham rejoiced to see HIS day , HE saw it and was g lad .
EVEN MOSES spoke of him as did the other prophets . Even the very law points to Christ .
But many cannot hear the law for the veil is upon their heart . And the blind cannot lead the blind
for both shall fall into the ditch .
JESUS spoke the TRUTH , the very words of the FATHER .
And HE gives life unto all who come unto HIM .
Not only does he speak truth , not only does he give life
HE IS THE TRUTH , HE IS THE LIFE , HE IS THE ONLY WAY UNTO THE FATHER .
HE is THE RESSURECITION . HE is the WORD of GOD and the Word was God .
This other fellow has about NO idea what he speaks of my friend nor what Spirit he is truly of at all .
But as for the sheep , THEY KNOW . THEY ARE THE BORN of GOD and not the flesh but of the SPIRIT .

I think he is trying to understand its why he is here....

 

[LoveYeshua]

Bs"d

So you admit that the most important part of this prophecy is not fulfilled.

And also that one is unquestionable not fulfilled.

And by the way, that part about "whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.'" just doesn't exist:

Days of eternity

Not all prophecies ( about 1/3 of the bible we Christians have is prophecy) were fulfilled as you know very well, still many to go. some prophecies are conditional some others have a dual meaning some are completed over time but not all at once, the one in Micah we discussed is one of them.

Peace be with you.

 

[Matthias]

“The rabbis had a problem. Their Scriptures descibed two completely different Messiahs.

One: a suffering servant, despised, pierced, ‘led like a lamb to the slaughter,’ dying for the sins of the people. Isaiah 53.

The other: a conquering king, ruling the nations, reigning forever in glory. Daniel 7.

Theses two pictures wouldn’t fit together. So some rabbis invented a solution: there must be TWO Messiahs.

They called them ‘Messiah ben Joseph’ - the one who suffers and dies - and ‘ Messiah ben David’ - the one who conquers and reigns.

Two Messiah’s, because they couldn’t imagine how one person could both die in shame AND reign in glory.

You know what’s shocking?

There was never supposed to be two.

It’s one Messiah. Two comings.

He came first as the suffering servant, ben Joseph, pierced for our sins. He’s coming again as the conquering king, ben David, to reign forever.

The rabbis split Him in half because they couldn’t see the gap between the cross and the crown.

Jesus is both. The Lamb who was slain AND the Lion who returns.

One Messiah. He just refused to fit in one visit.”

(Shahriq Khan)

Shahriq Khan (@RealShahriqKhan) on X

As an Ex-Muslim, let me explain a Jewish tradition about the Messiah that most people have never heard. The rabbis had a problem. Their Scriptures described two completely different Messiahs. One: a suffering servant, despised, pierced, “led like a lamb to the slaughter,” dying

x.com

 

[Matthias]

Bs"d

Dennis puts his finger on the sore spot. The point of contention is not so much whether or not JC was the messiah, but the fact that he is declared divine, and he is worshiped. Because that is idolatry.

Being wrong about the identity of the messiah is no big deal, I don't think you get whiplashes for it, but being wrong about who is God, that is a VERY big deal, that is the essence of our religions.
Worshiping the wrong God is idolatry, and that carries upon it the death penalty.

On the previous page somebody writes:



Christians worship JC, Jews worship the one and only true God Y-H-W-H.

When God starts giving the law on Mount Sinai, He begins with the ten commandments. The ten commandments begin with:
And God spoke all these words, saying: “I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME."
Exodus 20:1-2

And what does Christianity do? They introduce a new man-god, that nobody ever heard of before. And that is the God which Christianity worships.

And Judaism worships only Y-H-W-H, and nobody else. Because that is what the Hebrew Bible teaches.

And that is the whole big difference between Judaism and Christianity. We are worshiping a different God.

Look here who God is: Who is God?

People talk. You’re listening to people talk about Jesus. They say all kinds of things about him. I recommend tuning them down, if not out.

Jesus is a Jew. Tune him in, turn him up. Read Jesus and listen to what he has to say.

***

David is a king of Israel. Right? 1 Chronicles 29:20.