Actually Jesus returns twice...

[rebuilder 454]

Parables are deep truth....and everyone thinks they understand them.

In fact I tire of hearing about the prodigal son. Every sermon on that topic are similar but different.

As long as the components of the parables are in tact.
The components must be on the table.
Postribs change that.
Recklessly change them.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Ant you're trying to convince people here there is no pre-trib rapture.

You speak of two perspectives...but to be honest if Jesus left on a white horse I don't think Luke a detailed historian would have left it out.

Pretty sure he is amil..... there are a lot of them here

 

[rebuilder 454]

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them [tereo ek] from the evil one.

Jesus did not pray that God would take people out of this world to keep them from the evil one. That means Jesus does not approve of rapturing people out of this world to protect them from the evil one. Since Jesus does not approve of that then why do you (anyone reading that believes in a pre-trib rapture that takes people out of this world to keep them from the evil one) support such a concept?

No one is going to be taken out of the world so they can be "kept" from the evil one. That's not how God does things. The rapture is not an exception to that.

Anyone teaching a Pre-trib rapture is going directly against the teaching of Jesus in the above verse.

Huh???
Jesus himself taught pretrib rapture.

You guys do not know your bibles at all.

 

[CrowCross]

God made it very simple for us to find out and know = Matthew 4:4

When we abide under Matthew 4:4 we are set free from every doctrine of men.

Simply follow Christ's Commandment/Matt 4:4 and then post the scripture where GOD Said: I will pre-trib rapture My Elect/Church/Saints

Re-read the OP.

 

[CrowCross]

Pretty sure he is amil..... there are a lot of them here

They act as if the concept of a pre-trib rapture started with Darby.
Why?
That's what they've been told.

 

[CrowCross]

Huh???
Jesus himself taught pretrib rapture.

You guys do not know your bibles at all.

Yup...Jesus spoke of many dwellings..and is going to build a place for us. THEN return for us.

Jesus said I'll be back long before Arnold said it.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Re-read the OP.

He is going to troll you to death.
He is obsessed with doing that.
To him, you and I are the devil, and a massive life threatening evil.
He sees himself as a crusader hoping to stamp out that segment of the church.
No joke.
Wacko.

 

[rebuilder 454]

They act as if the concept of a pre-trib rapture started with Darby.
Why?
That's what they've been told.

...and yet they showcase the church fathers and brag that they got their postrib doctrine from men.
They are embarrassed.
That is why they go extra biblical.
Ask them to post a postrib rapture verse.
Watch what happens.

They are oblivious to the fact that they get their doctrine from dead men.
then claim we do what they do.

 

[David in NJ]

Re-read the OP.

Read the Gospel = we only await the Second Coming of CHRIST = GOD's OP for us to trust.

 

[ewq1938]

You do know you removed that scripture from the narrative presented by Jesus and made it into a narrative about denying the pre-trib rapture? Be careful. Don't twist.

It's in context and accurate and it speaks against Pretrib which is not a scriptural teaching.

Secondly the bible speaks of a rapture where people are taken out of the world...do you even deny the rapture?

Ppl are taken out of the world in the real rapture, but not to avoid the AC and the trib. the church is on Earth for the entire tribulation except those that depart in the Apostasy.

 

[ewq1938]

They act as if the concept of a pre-trib rapture started with Darby.
Why?
That's what they've been told.

Yes. It actually started by people misunderstanding something Paul said in one of his letters. He corrected their mistake in another letter but it existed since that time. Darby only popularized it.

 

[ewq1938]

Yup...Jesus spoke of many dwellings..and is going to build a place for us. THEN return for us.

Yes, but he never says he takes anyone back to heaven. He returns and stays here.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Jesus said, "I go to prepare a place for you." that is regarding those who die while Christ is in heaven. Jesus will eventually leave heaven: "I will come again". That is the second coming and here is the important thing: "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


So where is Christ after "I will come again and receive you unto myself"? Earth. He is no longer in heaven.


"I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


This is what Jesus said. This is what some think he said:


"I will come again and receive you unto myself AND TAKE YOU BACK TO HEAVEN; that where I am, there ye may be also."


He also did NOT say, "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I USED TO BE, there ye may be also."

He never said when he came back, that he was taking anyone to heaven. He comes again to Earth and where he is on Earth is where the church will be.

Also in the same chapter:

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Christ isn't returning to take anyone up to heaven to live with him and the Father but the opposite! The Father and Christ will end up coming here to make their abode on Earth with us! That's the opposite of the false pre-trib teaching!

 

[CrowCross]

Read the Gospel = we only await the Second Coming of CHRIST = GOD's OP for us to trust.

I did. I found the following...2 Tim 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

Besides waiting there is also loving Jesus appearing. But then again you already knew that.

 

[David in NJ]

I did. I found the following...2 Tim 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

Besides waiting there is also loving Jesus appearing. But then again you already knew that.

Thank you for the encouraging Truth.

Do you believe that His Coming is separate from His Appearing?

 

[CrowCross]

It's in context and accurate and it speaks against Pretrib which is not a scriptural teaching.

Does it? I know you've been told that, but, does it?

Ppl are taken out of the world in the real rapture, but not to avoid the AC and the trib. the church is on Earth for the entire tribulation except those that depart in the Apostasy.

You do know christians are not destined for the wrath? Do you need to see those verses again? If so I can look them up and post them for you.
As to being here for the entire tribulation...you do know the church isn't mentioned after verse 3? Then you need to read to end the tribulation when the church is not mentioned again until Rev 19.

This was puzzling...
"except those that depart in the Apostasy".......explain that in more detail if you can.

 

[CrowCross]

Thank you for the encouraging Truth.

Do you believe that there is His Coming is seperate from His Appearing?

For the most part the appearing is the rapture and the coming is Rev 19:11-16

As I said and showed in the OP...Jesus returns twice.

 

[David in NJ]

As I said and showed in the OP...Jesus returns twice.

This is what God cautions us of = "you said"

For the most part the appearing is the rapture and the coming is Rev 19:11-16

Please elaborate

 

[CrowCross]

Yes. It actually started by people misunderstanding something Paul said in one of his letters. He corrected their mistake in another letter but it existed since that time. Darby only popularized it.

They misunderstood Paul???? Who says that?

Thomas Ice off Liberty University disagrees with your statement.

 

[CrowCross]

This is what God cautions us of = "you said"

Perhaps I'm not in touch with the Holy Spirit like great theologians such as yourself are.

Please elaborate

What's there to elaborate on????

 

[David in NJ]

Perhaps I'm not in touch with the Holy Spirit like great theologians such as yourself are.

i am not fond of 'theologians'

What's there to elaborate on????

Truth

So please elaborate on what you believe to: "For the most part the appearing is the rapture and the coming is Rev 19:11-16"