How Confidant Are You Being Saved?

[marks]

Hebrews 10:26 means nothing to you, a sin that has no sacrifice to cover? That suggests it is possible to come out from the umbrella.

That concerns the Jews who would reject Jesus. They cannot go back to offering animals. "No more" signifies the end of a series. Check it out, the word is used a lot in Scripture.

Much love!

 

[bdavidc]

a sinner is not simply in a state of sin but included the deeds of the flesh

a believer is not simply a state of righteousness but must involve the practice of righteousness the deeds that fullfil the law of the spirit!

Lk 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
(eternal salvation)

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

unless you already have salvation then he would have no reason to tempt you or seem your destruction
Titus 2:12
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

thks

I agree that a believer’s righteousness is not just an empty label with no practice. Scripture never teaches that a man can be born again and then live comfortably in the works of the flesh. “He that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous” ~1 John 3:7. Grace changes a man.

But that still does not make works the ground of salvation. The issue is not whether righteousness must be practiced. The issue is whether that practice is the cause of eternal life or the fruit of eternal life.

Titus 2 actually proves my point. Grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world. That is what grace produces. But it is still grace doing the teaching, not works purchasing or preserving justification.

Acts 10:35 does say that those who fear God and work righteousness are accepted with Him. But keep reading the chapter. Peter does not stop there and say Cornelius is saved by his righteousness. He preaches Christ, and then says, “through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” ~Acts 10:43. Remission of sins is through faith in Christ, not through the merit of righteous deeds.

Romans 2:7 is true, but Romans 2 cannot be used against Romans 3 and 4. Paul goes on to say, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” ~Romans 3:20, and “to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5. That is the apostle’s own explanation.

Hebrews 10:36 speaks of endurance and receiving the promise. I agree. But endurance does not mean salvation is not presently possessed. John says believers “have eternal life” ~1 John 5:13. Peter says believers are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:5. There is a present possession and a future fullness.

Jude 21 says, “Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.” Amen. But Jude also says God “is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory” ~Jude 24. The command to keep ourselves does not cancel the promise that God keeps His own.

As for the devil, of course he has reason to tempt believers. He wants to destroy their witness, weaken their faith, bring reproach, and devour them through sin and deception. Peter himself was sifted by Satan, but Jesus said, “I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not” ~Luke 22:32. Peter fell badly, but Christ restored him.

I am not here arguing for dead faith or lawless living. If I have said the show me where. The question is whether obedience is the evidence of salvation or the basis of salvation. Scripture says we are saved by grace through faith, “not of works,” and then created in Christ Jesus “unto good works” ~Ephesians 2:8-10. That order matters.

 

[faithhopecharity]

That is still making eternal salvation depend on being “found faithful” as the condition for receiving it. That is the problem.

Scripture does not say eternal life is given after death to those who proved faithful enough. Scripture says, “the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” ~Romans 6:23. It also says, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is present possession. Jesus did not say he might have it later if he is found faithful enough. He said he has everlasting life now and shall not come into condemnation.

Romans 2:7 cannot be used to overthrow Romans 3 and Romans 4. In Romans 2, Paul is showing the righteous judgment of God. But by Romans 3, he has shut everyone’s mouth and says, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” ~Romans 3:20. Then he says plainly, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

So Romans 2 does not teach that eternal life is earned by patient continuance in well doing. If that were the case, Romans 4:5 would be false. The well doing is the evidence of grace, not the payment for grace.

Hebrews 10:36 also does not teach salvation by being faithful enough. The same passage says, “Now the just shall live by faith” ~Hebrews 10:38. Then it says, “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul” ~Hebrews 10:39.

The issue is faith. True faith endures because God keeps His own. That is why Peter says believers “are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:5.

You are mixing the evidence of salvation with the ground of salvation. Faithfulness matters, but faithfulness is not the basis of our justification. Christ is. His righteousness is. His blood is. His finished work is.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works” ~Ephesians 2:8-10.

Good works follow salvation. They do not purchase it, finish it, or keep God obligated to save us.

My confidence is not that I will be found faithful enough to earn eternal salvation. My confidence is that Christ saves His sheep, gives them eternal life, and says, “they shall never perish” ~John 10:28.

then you have no merits!

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

That is still making eternal salvation depend on being “found faithful” as the condition for receiving it. That is the problem.

Scripture does not say eternal life is given after death to those who proved faithful enough. Scripture says, “the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” ~Romans 6:23. It also says, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

That is present possession. Jesus did not say he might have it later if he is found faithful enough. He said he has everlasting life now and shall not come into condemnation.

Romans 2:7 cannot be used to overthrow Romans 3 and Romans 4. In Romans 2, Paul is showing the righteous judgment of God. But by Romans 3, he has shut everyone’s mouth and says, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” ~Romans 3:20. Then he says plainly, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

So Romans 2 does not teach that eternal life is earned by patient continuance in well doing. If that were the case, Romans 4:5 would be false. The well doing is the evidence of grace, not the payment for grace.

Hebrews 10:36 also does not teach salvation by being faithful enough. The same passage says, “Now the just shall live by faith” ~Hebrews 10:38. Then it says, “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul” ~Hebrews 10:39.

The issue is faith. True faith endures because God keeps His own. That is why Peter says believers “are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:5.

You are mixing the evidence of salvation with the ground of salvation. Faithfulness matters, but faithfulness is not the basis of our justification. Christ is. His righteousness is. His blood is. His finished work is.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works” ~Ephesians 2:8-10.

Good works follow salvation. They do not purchase it, finish it, or keep God obligated to save us.

My confidence is not that I will be found faithful enough to earn eternal salvation. My confidence is that Christ saves His sheep, gives them eternal life, and says, “they shall never perish” ~John 10:28.

eph 2:10 says created for good works not salvation for good works

that defeats the purpose

created to know love and serve God unto eternal salvation!

thks

 

[bdavidc]

then you have no merits!

thks

Exactly. I have no merit of my own. That is the point of the gospel.

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us” ~Titus 3:5.

If I had merit, I would not need grace. Scripture says God “justifieth the ungodly” and that faith is counted for righteousness “to him that worketh not, but believeth on him” ~Romans 4:5.

My confidence is not in my merit. It is in Christ’s blood, Christ’s righteousness, and Christ’s finished work.

 

[faithhopecharity]

I agree that grace causes perseverance. That is exactly my point.

If grace causes perseverance, then perseverance is the fruit of grace, not the condition that earns eternal salvation at the end. God’s grace does not merely give us a chance to save ourselves. Grace saves, changes, keeps, and finishes what God began.

Paul said, “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” ~Philippians 1:6.

Peter said believers “are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” ~1 Peter 1:5.

So yes, true grace produces perseverance. But that does not mean eternal life is a wage paid after we prove ourselves faithful enough. Scripture still says, “the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” ~Romans 6:23.

That is the difference. Perseverance is evidence that grace is real. It is not the price we pay to keep eternal life.

sorry mine was a typo grace does not cos perseverance we must participate

abide in me Jn 15:4

mt 10:22 he who endures to the end shall be saved

those who do not are lost!

Phil 4:13 I can do all things in Christ!

I do all things!

grace and us or our efforts

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace issufficient for thee: for my strength ismade perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

thks

 

[Wrangler]

My confidence is not in my merit. It is in Christ’s blood, Christ’s righteousness, and Christ’s finished work.

You’re so confused. What makes you think the queen of the prom will pick YOU, even though we all know her beauty and virtue is beyond doubt?

Your response is like moving the goal post; I know with certainty he can kick the football, ya. But the question is will he kick it through the uprights for you in the moment of truth?

 

[bdavidc]

sorry mine was a typo grace does not cos perseverance we must participate

abide in me Jn 15:4

mt 10:22 he who endures to the end shall be saved

those who do not are lost!

Phil 4:13 I can do all things in Christ!

I do all things!

grace and us or our efforts

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace issufficient for thee: for my strength ismade perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

thks

That typo changes the whole issue.

I do not deny that the believer abides, endures, obeys, fights, labors, and participates. The Bible teaches that plainly. But Scripture also tells us where that willing and doing comes from.

Paul said, “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” But he did not stop there. He said, “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure” ~Philippians 2:12-13.

That is the point. The believer really does work, but God is the One working in him to will and to do. That does not make perseverance a self-powered condition for earning final salvation. It makes perseverance the evidence that God’s grace is truly at work.

John 15:4 says, “Abide in me,” but Jesus also said in the same passage, “without me ye can do nothing” ~John 15:5. That means abiding is not man proving he can keep himself saved. It is the branch remaining in the vine because all life comes from Christ.

Matthew 10:22 says, “he that endureth to the end shall be saved.” I believe that. Those who do not endure show they were not truly His. John said, “They went out from us, but they were not of us” ~1 John 2:19.

Paul said it best: “I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me” ~1 Corinthians 15:10.

That is not grace plus human merit. That is grace producing real labor in the believer. Eternal life is still “the gift of God” ~Romans 6:23, not a wage paid after man proves himself worthy.

 

[bdavidc]

You’re so confused. What makes you think the queen of the prom will pick YOU, even though we all know her beauty and virtue is beyond doubt?

Your response is like moving the goal post; I know with certainty he can kick the football, ya. But the question is will he kick it through the uprights for you in the moment of truth?

That analogy misses the gospel. Christ is not a prom queen deciding whether I am attractive enough to pick. He is the Savior of sinners. My confidence is not that I am worthy. My confidence is that He keeps His own word.

Jesus said, “him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out” ~John 6:37. He did not say, “I might cast him out later if he does not measure up.” He said, “I will in no wise cast out.”

He also said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation” ~John 5:24. That is not confusion. That is Christ’s promise.

The “moment of truth” was not my performance. The moment of truth was the cross. Christ already finished the work. “It is finished” ~John 19:30.

If my assurance rests on whether I am good enough in the final moment, then my confidence is still in me. But Scripture says, “To him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

That is where my confidence is.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That analogy misses the gospel. Christ is not a prom queen deciding whether I am attractive enough to pick. He is the Savior of sinners. My confidence is not that I am worthy. My confidence is that He keeps His own word.

Jesus said, “him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out” ~John 6:37. He did not say, “I might cast him out later if he does not measure up.” He said, “I will in no wise cast out.”

He also said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation” ~John 5:24. That is not confusion. That is Christ’s promise.

The “moment of truth” was not my performance. The moment of truth was the cross. Christ already finished the work. “It is finished” ~John 19:30.

If my assurance rests on whether I am good enough in the final moment, then my confidence is still in me. But Scripture says, “To him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” ~Romans 4:5.

That is where my confidence is.

I am amazed after what the pharisees did to Christ. people still have more faith in self. than they do God

 

[bdavidc]

I am amazed after what the pharisees did to Christ. people still have more faith in self. than they do God

I totally agree!


.

 

[Wrangler]

That analogy misses the gospel. Christ is not a prom queen deciding whether I am attractive enough to pick. He is the Savior of sinners.

So, universalism is correct doctrine?

 

[Wrangler]

I am amazed after what the pharisees did to Christ. people still have more faith in self. than they do God

You are confusing the power of God with his sovereignty. Scripture says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling - not certainty.

 

[Scott Downey]

eph 2:10 says created for good works not salvation for good works

that defeats the purpose

created to know love and serve God unto eternal salvation!

thks

Created for good works, that refers to the New Creation born again spirit God places in you when He saves you. Doing good works is part of bearing good fruit to what the Spirit is doing. God sets up these good works for us to do beforehand, meaning before He saved us, He had a purpose and plan for us who will be saved.
Even so bearing good fruit is not exactly good works, just another side to the equation.

You can say about good works is they are profitable to man, and not to God.

Our good works is not the basis of our salvation, it was the good work of Christ that saved us.
God sent Christ to earth on a mission and He fulfilled that ministry of the Word of God.

Matthew 7
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?

17 Even so, every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire.

20 Therefore, by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 “Not every one that saith unto Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Father who is in Heaven.

22 Many will say to Me in that Day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name, and in Thy name have cast out devils, and in Thy name done many wonderful works?’

23 And then will I profess unto them, ‘I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity.’

24 “Therefore, whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, who built his house upon a rock.

25 And the rain descended and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house; and it fell not, for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of Mine and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand;

27 and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”

28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at His doctrine;

29 for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

 

[faithhopecharity]

No twisting is needed. The problem is that you did not prove what you claimed.

Philippians 4:3 says there were faithful fellow laborers whose names were in the book of life. I believe that. But that verse does not say a born again believer can be justified, made a new creation, passed from death unto life, sealed by the Spirit, and then still be eternally lost. You are adding that part.

Revelation 22:19 is a warning against tampering with the words of the prophecy of Revelation. I believe that warning. “And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part...” That is serious. But again, the verse does not say Christ’s sheep can perish. It does not say a man who has been born of God can be unborn. It does not say the sealed believer becomes unsealed. It does not say the one who has passed from death unto life passes back into death.

Jesus said, “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24.

Jesus also said, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish” ~John 10:28.

Your interpretation of Revelation 22:19 would make Jesus wrong. I am not going there.

Revelation itself makes a distinction between the saved and the lost. “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire” ~Revelation 20:15. Then it says nothing unclean enters the holy city, “but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life” ~Revelation 21:27.

The people who enter are written in the Lamb’s book of life. The people cast into the lake of fire are not found written there. That does not prove saved people become lost. It proves only those written in the book enter, and those not found written are judged.

Revelation 22:19 is not a loophole that cancels John 5:24, John 10:28, Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, Philippians 1:6, and 1 Peter 1:5.

If a man corrupts the Word of God, takes away from it, and shows contempt for the words of Christ, I would not comfort him with assurance. I would tell him to repent. But I will not use that warning to deny Christ’s promise to His sheep.

You have to prove your claim from the text. You have to show where Scripture says a truly born again believer, justified by faith, sealed by the Spirit, passed from death unto life, can still end up condemned.

Revelation 22:19 does not say that.

Jesus said His sheep shall never perish. I believe Him.

that's not a twist?

they are cast into the lake of fire vis there name was scratched out!

thks