Taken
Well-Known Member
How Confidant Are You Being Saved?
Very Confidant Christ the Lord HAS Saved me.
Glory to God,
Taken
Very Confidant Christ the Lord HAS Saved me.
Glory to God,
Taken
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No, the twist is saying their name was scratched out when the text does not say that. Revelation 20:15 says, “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” It says they were not found written there. It does not say they were once written there as born again believers and then removed.that's not a twist?
they are cast into the lake of fire vis there name was scratched out!
thks
No. That is not universalism. Saying Christ is the Savior of sinners does not mean every sinner is saved. Scripture is clear that not all are saved. Jesus said, “he that believeth not is condemned already” John 3:18. Revelation 20:15 says, “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”So, universalism is correct doctrine?
Your logic, not too good.Saying Christ is the Savior of sinners does not mean every sinner is saved.
No, the twist is saying their name was scratched out when the text does not say that. Revelation 20:15 says, “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” It says they were not found written there. It does not say they were once written there as born again believers and then removed.
The problem is not my logic. The problem is that you are forcing a universal conclusion into wording that does not state one. When I say Christ is the Savior of sinners, I am not saying every sinner is saved. I am saying sinners are the kind of people Christ came to save. That is exactly what Paul said: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief” 1 Timothy 1:15.Your logic, not too good.
Saying Boston is the home of Bostonians doesn't mean every Bostonian is from Boston.Also, you're reading into an unqualified text a qualifier that is not in evidence.
To say apples are red does not mean that all apples are red.
Said differently, IF there is a subset of sinners who are not saved, one must conclude:
- they are among those who may not saved, AND
- that Jesus is not the Savior of ALL sinners, which makes
- your general claim that Jesus is the Savior of sinners a specious claim.
LOL. It's a logical problem on your part. So, we agree universal salvation is not proper doctrine but you keep side stepping the point that (some) believers, even those who performed miracles in Jesus' name are not saved. This doesn't suggest certainty of our outcome is in order.The problem is not my logic. The problem is that you are forcing a universal conclusion into wording that does not state one.
scripture does teach conditional perseverance unto salvationI am not confusing justification with salvation. I am refusing to separate what God joins together. Justification is not the whole of salvation, but it is part of salvation. Those whom God justifies, He also glorifies.
Paul says, “Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified” ~Romans 8:30.
There is no category there for a man who is truly justified by God and then finally damned.
And yes, I will include Ephesians 2:10, because Paul included it. You cannot stop at verse 9 and then turn verse 10 into the means of earning eternal salvation. The order matters.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works” ~Ephesians 2:8-10.
Verse 10 does not say good works are the means of attaining eternal salvation. It says those who are saved by grace are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works. Good works are the fruit and purpose of the new creation, not the payment that obtains eternal life.
That is the same order Paul gives in Titus: “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us” ~Titus 3:5.
Then after that, Paul says believers should “be careful to maintain good works” ~Titus 3:8.
Saved by mercy. Then careful to maintain good works. That is the biblical order.
As for grace being resistible, sinners do resist the Holy Spirit. Stephen said, “Ye do always resist the Holy Ghost” ~Acts 7:51. But that does not mean God’s saving grace fails to save those who truly belong to Christ. Jesus said, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me” ~John 6:37. He also said, “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” ~John 6:39.
Grace does not force a man to love God like a robot. Grace gives life to a dead sinner, changes the heart, brings him to Christ, and keeps him.
“We love him, because he first loved us” ~1 John 4:19.
So no, Ephesians 2:10 does not teach that we attain eternal salvation by faithful service. It teaches that those saved by grace are made new and walk in the good works God prepared for them.
You are still turning the fruit of salvation into the condition for final salvation. Scripture keeps the order clear. Christ saves. Grace changes. Faith works. God keeps.
All those verses describing the condition of mans heart, not the eternal divine perspective of those that are saved.scripture does teach conditional perseverance unto salvation
thks
ex 20 mt 19:17 1 tim 6:14 keep the commandments
deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God within all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
ez 36:25-27 ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Mk 13:13 mt 10:22 endure to the end
Matt 7:14 narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life
Matt 16:24 If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Matt 24:13 endure to the end
Jn 3:16 continues in believing
Jn 15:4 abide in christ
Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing
Jn 15:10 keep my commandments
Rom 1:5 obedience
Rom 8:13-17 but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 11:22 if thou continue in his goodness:
1 cor 7:24 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1 cor 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1 cor 13:13 (3) three things are eternal; faith, hope and charity and the greatest is charity.
2 thes 1:4 faith & patience
heb 6:12 faith and patience inherit the promises.
Gal 5:2-4 fallen
Gal 5:25 if we live in the spirit
Col 1:21-23 If ye continue in the faith
Col 2:5 steadfast
2 Tim 2:3 endure hardship
2 Tim 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
1 pet 2:20 if we suffer patiently
1 Jn 2:24-28 grace must abide in us
1 Jn 3:6 abideth in Him (Christ)
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Heb 3:4-6 if we hold fast
Heb 6:4-9 if they fall away
Heb 12:7 if ye endure
Heb 12:22-25 if we turn away
James 1:12 endureth
Listing a lot of verses does not prove the point unless those verses actually teach that a man can be truly justified by God, born of the Spirit, given eternal life, sealed by the Spirit, and then finally perish. That is the issue.scripture does teach conditional perseverance unto salvation
Listing a lot of verses totally proves the point.Listing a lot of verses does not prove the point unless those verses actually teach that a man can be truly justified by God, born of the Spirit, given eternal life, sealed by the Spirit, and then finally perish. That is the issue.