Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[Lizbeth]

Rom.10:13
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Who am I to refute what the scriptures say. To quote Smith Wigglesworth, "The Bible says it, I believe it."
If you are NOT DEAD, you have been saved.

Now, back to my questions please.

Sister, have a look at Psalm 88. Take note of what darkness is talking about in that psalm: grave, death, pit, wrath, destruction.

 

[MostlyConfused]

This latest argument is silly. There IS an outer darkness. It DOES seem in some verses to be forever. It’s different than annihilation. It kind of shows that we (if we have begun to see ourselves with any more truth and clarity) had better proceed with caution and consider who we are dealing with.

 

[shepherdsword]

This latest argument is silly. There IS an outer darkness. It DOES seem in some verses to be forever. It’s different than annihilation. It kind of shows that we (if we have begun to see ourselves with any more truth and clarity) had better proceed with caution and consider who we are dealing with.

Pretty sure there is no "annihilation" I hope there is but the scripture indicates otherwise:

Mk 9:44-48
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Rv 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Rv 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Pretty sure there is no "annihilation" I hope there is but the scripture indicates otherwise:

Mk 9:44-48
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Rv 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Rv 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So then you think men are born with eternal life in them. Many do think that.

I have wondered about the verse that seems to say at a future time men will want to die and won’t be able to, if maybe they were ones who took the mark (whatever that is). It seems like a repeat of whatever genetic manipulation went on to produce the giants. I had considered that their spirits are actually what demons ARE. It’s a big mystery how they (demons) seem to have a life that doesn’t die. And Satan seems to also have that eternity in him.
I don’t know, I just think we look at everything humanly and in linear time and miss a lot because of it. Not that we can help doing it, we ARE human. But we CAN consider that we may not be understanding and so not be so adamantly sure about everything. As an example, a lot of what God said, from a human seeing, did not happen, but that’s because they thought they understood what God said - like telling Abraham he would give all that land to him or even the disciples asking Jesus if He would now give the kingdom back to Israel. Don’t know if I was too clear there or not.

 

[ProDeo]

I agree that to my human understanding it doesn’t seem saved to me. But there could be things we don’t understand about it. Maybe some escape it after receiving stripes. Maybe some come out after they have payed the last farthing like in the parable.

Of course you can be right, we can't imagine how it will be. Only that God's judgements will be right and we will understand His judgements will be right. Also about the new things the Lord might do in afterlife, we have no clue.

I think a possible place about outer darkness -

Rev 22:15 - Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Outside the city of light.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Of course you can be right, we can't imagine how it will be. Only that God's judgements will be right and we will understand His judgements will be right. Also about the new things the Lord might do in afterlife, we have no clue.

I think a possible hint about outer darkness -

Rev 22:15 - Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Outside the city of light.

Yeah…I just have a big jumble when I read future things. Like, is it before or after the 1000 years, before or after death is done away with. Because during the 1000 years there is still at least some death if I read the verse correctly. Just a jumble. I don’t think as much about it as I used to or read any books on it. They all seem to be championing one aspect without considering other aspects or verses.

 

[bdavidc]

In A Description of the Qualifications Necessary to A Gospel Minister by Samuel Bownas 1750, (p6-7)he writes:

"For no man can be righteous and wicked at one time; we must first be brought out of the bondage of corruption under spiritual Pharoh and Egypt, into the wilderness, before we can offer acceptably unto God. This state is figuratively called a wilderness, a way we have not trod in, showing thereby the necessity of depending on our guide, our spiritual Moses, that must go before and take care of our support.

For in this wilderness state we have no food, no water, no right refreshment but what this leader provides and administers to us.

In this start we can neither pray, nor do any religious act without the direction of our leader, so far that we find the case is much altered with us to do what was in time past. For then, we could pray, sing, preach and perform other religious duties in our own time, feeding and satisfying ourselves therewith, but now we are brought into the wilderness, where there is neither ploughing nor sowing.

We can't help ourselves by our own contrivance and workings of our own wills but here we must live a life of faith wholly dependant on Him that will (if we faint not in our minds) bring us through to the heavenly Cannan. Thus we will come in the Lord's time to experience the substance of those types and figures under that legal dispensation to be substantially and spiritually fulfilled in our own minds by the operation of the Spirit of our Lord Jesus Christ, the substance and foundation of all true religion and ministry that is really profitable to the hearers."

Not all believers are trained in this way for the true ministry.

You were asked a simple question: Where does Scripture teach these symbolic meanings? Instead of answering from Scripture, you quoted Samuel Bownas from 1750 assigning still more meanings to Pharaoh, Egypt, Moses, the wilderness, and Canaan.

That does not answer the question. Samuel Bownas is not Scripture. Quoting another man who used the same method you are using does not prove your interpretation. It only proves that someone else made the same kind of claims.

Scripture says, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction” (2 Timothy 3:16). It does not say that Samuel Bownas, you, or anyone else may supply hidden meanings that the text itself never identifies and then call those meanings spiritual truth. Paul said we are “not to think of men above that which is written” (1 Corinthians 4:6). That is exactly where this discussion keeps going wrong. You keep going beyond what is written.

There is nothing wrong with seeing an illustration or making a devotional comparison as long as you admit that is what you are doing. But you are doing much more than that. You are taking Egypt, Pharaoh, the wilderness, Jordan, Canaan, fire, altars, pierced ears, treasure, pearls, and other things, assigning them specific stages and meanings, and then presenting the resulting system as something spiritually discerned by the Holy Spirit. That is not biblical exposition. It is a symbolic system imposed upon the Bible.

And now you say, “Not all believers are trained in this way for the true ministry.” Where does Scripture say that? Paul gave qualifications for ministers in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. He did not require an inward spiritual journey through symbolic Egypt, wilderness, Jordan, and Canaan. If you are going to make this a mark of “true ministry,” then you had better be able to show where the apostles taught it.

You cannot escape the problem by appealing to the Holy Spirit. Scripture commands us, “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1). How do we test spiritual claims? By accepting them because they sound deep and mystical? No. “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” (Isaiah 8:20).

The Holy Spirit inspired Scripture. He does not need Samuel Bownas or anyone else to complete it by supplying meanings God never revealed in the text. Calling an interpretation “spiritual” does not make it biblical.

This is especially serious when you present these things publicly as qualifications for true Christian ministry. Scripture warns teachers: “My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation” (James 3:1). Teaching carries accountability before God. That is why this matters.

So this is where I am leaving it: stop giving me quotations from men when I am asking you for the Word of God. If Scripture teaches that Pharaoh represents this, Jordan represents that, Canaan represents another stage, and this entire progression is necessary training for true ministry, then show the passages that actually say so.

If you cannot, then stop presenting these interpretations as though the Holy Spirit revealed them in Scripture. You are going beyond what is written, and no amount of spiritual language can turn man's interpretation into God's Word.

 

[bdavidc]

Please test this.

Sure. You accuse others of taking verses out of context while you invent a “MERITOCRACY aspect” of salvation that Scripture never teaches. Romans 4:5 says God justifies the one who “worketh not, but believeth.” Romans 11:6 says if it is by grace, “then is it no more of works.” Ephesians 2:8-9 says salvation is “not of works.”

You are not correcting Scripture. You are forcing Scripture to fit your theology. Worse, you claimed you were correcting others “by the very same inspiration” by which Paul wrote. That is not biblical authority. That is arrogance. Scripture says, “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar” (Proverbs 30:6).

You are teaching falsely about the gospel. Works follow salvation. They do not merit it, complete it, or maintain it.

Stop accusing others of mishandling Scripture while you rewrite it to fit your own doctrine.

 

[bdavidc]

You say you are not against the fear of the Lord....but without having it. You say that holiness is important without seeking first the kingdom. I question your honesty because you don't have a flesh filter.

Bearing fruit is on 2 levels. Holy eternal fruit AND righteous fruit based on honesty, fear of the Lord, humility and lovingkindness.

I have borne eternal fruit...but I also lacked common righteousness in spite of the holy walk I was experiencing. My first foray into holiness was a lonely pursuit for me, because I was alone and very selfish. I didn't want to lose my life. And most people here don't want to lose their lives either. But God tested me.

I would have preferred to be surrounded by a faith community, but God had me learn from Him directly...as in...you have need that no man teach you. It's harder but you go farther...and it takes longer. I didn't get back into the higher walk until 18 years later. A revival sprang up around that translation. People came from all over...even a few saying God told them to come to us. Many miracles. I lasted in the Spirit for 2.5 years or so. When I failed again...this time because I didn't think righteousness is important for a Christian...just like many here who will NOT receive direct instruction from God nor will they receive my testimony.... God impressed on me in no uncertain terms that I needed to learn righteousness, even telling me to learn Hebrew to help get a better grasp on the meaning of scripture.

This I have been pursuing for 25 years...showing how crucial such a training is.

I don't believe that the training is just for me. I am to save the souls of all who hear my teachings...since people are not that connected to God so as to be personally warned. There is nothing for them to compare to.

And I realize how hard it is to hear what I'm saying. However, some do hear me..and experience more of Christ. And the nature of my ministry now is within the church whereas before it was more street ministry...the "unsaved".

So now there is a calling for all to repent. For the wicked to turn to righteousness...and for the religious believers to do the same. And all people everywhere to surrender to God in Christ in order to be reconciled to Him.

I am not worthy to be in the training of a saint...although the jury is still out on that one. But there is a way out for those who are honest and act with righteousness. Even for believers. I am thinking of doing a video on "the Book of Remembrance" mentioned in Mal. 3...that I have received much instruction on...whereby those who fail grace (holiness) still have a chance for a place of honour with God. I teach this way in our home fellowship. And this is very encouraging for those who are willing to humble themselves and accept the fear of the Lord...which I insist is necessary to avoid outer darkness.

You keep telling everyone that God taught you directly, God impressed things on you, people were sent to you, miracles happened around you, and you have received special instruction about doctrines the rest of us supposedly do not understand.

At this point, one has to ask: where is the Scripture that actually says what you are saying?

Elijah mocked the prophets of Baal because they made great spiritual claims that had no reality behind them: “Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked” (1 Kings 18:27).

You keep appealing to revelation, impressions, spiritual experiences, and special instruction, but when the written Word is placed in front of you, your system still has to be imported into the text.

Perhaps the next revelation can finally provide the verse that says salvation has a “MERITOCRACY aspect,” that people “fail grace” into another category of destiny, or that your private instruction determines who escapes “outer darkness.”

Until then, you have claims. Scripture has authority.

“Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar” (Proverbs 30:6).

You can keep talking about what God supposedly told you. The rest of us are going to keep asking the question you cannot answer: Where is it written?

 

[Episkopos]

Sure. You accuse others of taking verses out of context while you invent a “MERITOCRACY aspect” of salvation that Scripture never teaches. Romans 4:5 says God justifies the one who “worketh not, but believeth.” Romans 11:6 says if it is by grace, “then is it no more of works.” Ephesians 2:8-9 says salvation is “not of works.”

One would have to be blind indeed to not see that the kingdom of God is a RADICAL meritocracy (if you don't produce enough fruit you are rejected). You are reading the bible through rose-tinted glasses indeed with a flowers and rainbows utopian view that ignores the many warnings that are written as plain as day.

Entering God's kingdom is a gift.....no one merits being put into the heavenly race. But after one is in the heavenly realm it is about rewards of merit. Of course I don't think basically any here have ever actually entered INTO the kingdom realm of the Spirit for any length of time so as to SEE what it's about. For those who have trouble with reading skills I list the following meritocratic aspects of God's kingdom.

Those who PRODUCE a return on God's investment get a reward to the level of their achievement. A man who was given one talent and PRODUCES another will rule over one city. And any subsequent return on investment for further deposits (talents) gets the commensurate amount of cities to rule.

God tells Cain...if you get it right will I not also accept you?

He who overcomes as Jesus did will sit on a throne with Jesus.

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. Rev. 3:4

We will reap as we have sown...not as Jesus has sown.

“I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,” Eph 4:1

“Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.” Matt. 22:8

You are not correcting Scripture. You are forcing Scripture to fit your theology.

That's what you are doing...parroting what you have been conditioned by endless repetition to believe. No power from heaven...no experience of the heavenly walk...just man-made platitudes from people who are alien to the life of God.

Worse, you claimed you were correcting others “by the very same inspiration” by which Paul wrote.

Yes. By the same Spirit. In sober realization and balance.Using the WHOLE bible as reference.

That is not biblical authority. That is arrogance. Scripture says, “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar” (Proverbs 30:6).

Again, arrogance is why you can't hear the truth. You are projecting your dullness onto me.

You are teaching falsely about the gospel. Works follow salvation. They do not merit it, complete it, or maintain it.

What kind of works follow your easy-peasy gospel? A slightly better morality than the world offers? Works of perfection in Christ? (of course not)

An actual salvation is followed by a lack of sin in thought or action. But you are merely advocating a human version of a religion loosely based on things ABOUT Jesus.

The very fact that you can't see how God's judgment works makes you think God respects certain people over others...with yourself at the top of the pyramid. From there you can judge all others as hell-bound. But you are taking a position that you literally don't MERIT. God makes a man worthy....but he must walk in it to remain worthy.

Without maintaining obedience to God one falls from grace. Sin still separates us from God. The wages of sin is still death.

Stop accusing others of mishandling Scripture while you rewrite it to fit your own doctrine.

I only cite what is written. Your faux outrage is not based on anything but a bad reading of scripture. You are unlearned AND unstable, and should take a far more humble stance when reading things you have no experience of. Be more like the Bereans who searched the scriptures to see if the WEIRD sounding things Paul was speaking of were actually in the bible.

So you rail at the verses I cite because they don't fit your indoctrination. JW's are more open to the truth than you are. Being obstinate and arrogant does not make you right. Do God's work .....not the devil's. Engage the argument without acting like a religious fool. God is looking for spiritual fruit not religious nuts.

Since the truth is so alien to you, take it one step at a time... Look up what a meritocracy is...and look what that means. Is it equality of outcome? Or is it equality of opportunity? Many are called but few are chosen. Do you know why that is such? Is being chosen like a game of chance...or does God choose specifically according to certain QUALIFICATIONS....that are actually listed over and over again in the bible. But you can't see them. Certain verses have blinded you because of a human religious hubris that tells you that you are on the inside. It is the "emperor's new clothes" of an assumed righteousness that acts as a barrier to the truth.

They cover with a covering that is not according to My Spirit, that they may add sin to sin. (adding religious pride to common carnal sinning) (I better cite chapter and verse otherwise the unlearned will think I'm making this up...read Is. 30:1)

 

[Marvelloustime]

There is a big ol fat elephant in the room my friend .
And do i mean a BIG ONE .
Any guesses on what it is .........
SOMEONE denies the DIRE NEED TO HAVE TO BELEIVE ON JESUS and sells us inclusive anti christ and a horse in the cart .
So few what to ADDRESS this elephant . No worries I WILL expose it and continue to do so .
ANY one who omits the FACT one MUST BELIEVE ON JESUS and hollers at those who DO say we must
THEY indeed are and have made themselves the enemy of GOD and of HIS gospel . And that b e a FACT jack .

@amigo de christo

 

[Episkopos]

You keep telling everyone that God taught you directly, God impressed things on you, people were sent to you, miracles happened around you, and you have received special instruction about doctrines the rest of us supposedly do not understand.

At this point, one has to ask: where is the Scripture that actually says what you are saying?

Elijah mocked the prophets of Baal because they made great spiritual claims that had no reality behind them: “Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked” (1 Kings 18:27).

You keep appealing to revelation, impressions, spiritual experiences, and special instruction, but when the written Word is placed in front of you, your system still has to be imported into the text.

Not at all. What I am saying is EXACTLY what the authors of the bible are relating. They are speaking of what they know by experience and revelation. I do the same. I would NEVER be religious and assume I know something based on a silly human indoctrination.

Perhaps the next revelation can finally provide the verse that says salvation has a “MERITOCRACY aspect,” that people “fail grace” into another category of destiny, or that your private instruction determines who escapes “outer darkness.”

If you had any wisdom at all...you would allow yourself to be questioned and allow the warnings of the bible to hit you personally. I'm not asking you to believe me...just the bible. I can provide CONTEXT from the whole counsel of God...and maybe take you one more step further into what is unknown to you. Otherwise I'm speaking far beyond what you can comprehend...although a true faith is able to grasp things that the human mind can't fathom.

Until then, you have claims. Scripture has authority.

Yes. Jesus is the word. If you listen to the word you are listening to Jesus. But that doesn't negate the truth that Jesus speaks directly to people. In either case His sheep hear His voice.

“Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar” (Proverbs 30:6).

You can keep talking about what God supposedly told you. The rest of us are going to keep asking the question you cannot answer: Where is it written?

I mainly cite where it is written...but not always (I'm not a scripture monkey that is looking for kudos for citing verses as some here)...but there is a blindness in many so that it is AS IF I never cited anything. The same way that these same people read verses in the bible without comprehending or even remembering they ever read them.

There is a spirit of deep sleep enveloping the modern church. But Paul says (and I quote) "awake you who sleep, rise from the dead and Christ will give you light."

(If I don't write down chapter and verse people don't realize I'm actually quoting the bible...they think I'm making it up because of THEIR lack of knowing the bible).

 

[Marvelloustime]

My sheep hear MY VOICE and the voice of a stranger they will not heed . JESUS the Christ of GOD the GLORIOUS shepard
of the sheep , Oh HE HAS HIS sheep . And a HIC they will NOT heed . For they POINT TO CHRIST .

@amigo de christo

 

[Behold]

More Theological rambling that tries to sound "spirituaL".
Its your ministry @Episkopos .

And your specific nonsense about "going through gates" as a requiriement of any Chrisitan (to go to Heaven or to be accepted by God)... is just more of the bizarre religious concepts that you borrowed from some commentary or online site. (Heretics).

Now lets look at your odd screenshot, and we notice that it says "the way of righteousness" "what can we do".
And the only true answer to this is......"you can do NOTHING"......as what can a SINNER do, who has no righteousness. ???

"well Behold, there is that verse about doing righteousness"........= yet a sinner HAS NO RIGHTEOUSNESS"..... and this is why Jesus came here.
He came here to FORGIVE OUR SIN on THE CROSS, so that God can then provided "the Gift of Righteousness".

"well Behold......never mind that, because i have this verse that comes from the OT, that is the OLD COVENANT, and so, that is my entire works based Cross rejecting theology". @Episkopos .

LOOK AGAIN, Deceiver........ = "There is NONE RIOHTEOUS, NO NOT ONE">.........and that means all your doing and working and striving to try to be GOOD, so that God will accept YOUR "works"..... is a "filthy rag" in God's eyes, as this is a SINNER ( YOu) ... = "ALL have SINNED"..

A.) "ALL = have sinned, there is NONE Righteous, no not one".... so, there goes your "self righteousness" theology.

It just crashed and burned again, @Episkopos .

So then How does a SINNER become "righteous", when God requires it for entrance into heaven, yet "ALL HAVE SINNED"... and "there is NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO NOT ONE".... ?

Reader, HELL is waiting for ALL who have not understood WHY Jesus gave Himself for your SIN on The CROSS.

So, when you read some heretics gospel garbage that is telling you that you OF YOURSELF can "do righteousness", when The Cross of Christ proves you have none..............

Do you understand that you are being DECEIVED if you are being told that YOU can "do Righteousness".......

You better figure this out reader........


= Very simple........the BELIEVER who has come to Jesus by Faith, receives "the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS" from God, that is God's "imputed righteousness" that was first given to Abraham, and is now offered to "as many as will believe" in Jesus.
That's how you get it, and that is the only WAY. ... (John 14:6) that a SINNER can become righteous.

 

[Lizbeth]

Of course you can be right, we can't imagine how it will be. Only that God's judgements will be right and we will understand His judgements will be right. Also about the new things the Lord might do in afterlife, we have no clue.

I think a possible place about outer darkness -

Rev 22:15 - Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Outside the city of light.

Amen. The weeping and gnashing of teeth associated with outer darkness sure doesn't sound like salvation on any level to me:

Mat 8:12
But the children of the kingdom (UNbelieving Israel) shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 22:13
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 24:51
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luk 13:28
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. (Again talking to UNbelieving Israel)

 

[Episkopos]

More Theological rambling that tries to sound "spirituaL".
Its your ministry @Episkopos .

And your specific nonsense about "going through gates" as a requiriement of any Chrisitan (to go to Heaven or to be accepted by God)... is just more of the bizarre religious concepts that you borrowed from some commentary or online site. (Heretics).

I see you are bringing your unbelief and hardness of heart to another one of my threads.

Maybe my use of the word "gates" doesn't register with you because you can't relate that to the "DOORS" ideas in the bible. I use gates for a reason as it relates to the holy city. But Jesus says..."I am the DOOR". Also He says "straight is the GATE." AND also He says "behold (that's you) I stand at the door and knock." Now, I don't want to go onto why you don't open the door to Jesus...but any other reader here will not have a problem with me using the word "gate" to mean an entering into something. Or maybe you think gate and door are not synonyms...because of preference?

Now lets look at your odd screenshot, and we notice that it says "the way of righteousness" "what can we do".
And the only true answer to this is......"you can do NOTHING"......as what can a SINNER do, who has no righteousness. ???

John the Baptist walked on the way of righteousness. He sinned as all men do who are not empowered into holiness in Christ. But in your scheme God becomes blind to sins that pretend believers commit ALL THE TIME...and even add MORE sins like religious hypocrisy. So you double down when it comes to sin. You must think God is very blind indeed.

"well Behold, there is that verse about doing righteousness"........= yet a sinner HAS NO RIGHTEOUSNESS"..... and this is why Jesus came here.
He came here to FORGIVE OUR SIN on THE CROSS, so that God can then provided "the Gift of Righteousness".

Jesus came to TAKE AWAY sins...read the bible. Jesus did not come to forgive sins...God has ALWAYS been very merciful. His mercy lasts forever. You preach a false gospel of religious beliefs based on a forgiveness to remain under the power of sin...and even ADD more and more sin...because you think Jesus came to make you get away with ANY AMOUNT of sin. Like Luther said...he could sin all day and it would never be enough to wipe away the grace that automatically FORGIVES sin. What a diabolical disaster of lawlessness. So you follow men like Luther into oblivion.

"well Behold......never mind that, because i have this verse that comes from the OT, that is the OLD COVENANT, and so, that is my entire works based Cross rejecting theology". @Episkopos .

LOOK AGAIN, Deceiver........ = "There is NONE RIOHTEOUS, NO NOT ONE">

Your deceit lies in the fact that you only do partial quotes and stop where the context begins to be apparent. There is no one righteous that never sins.....so the righteous DO sin. But self-righteousness only takes hold when a person CLAIMS to be righteous...like you do and others here. And not only do you claim to be righteous based on a religious hubris...but also you claim that you are as righteous as God. It's enough to make the most wicked Pharisee blush.

.........and that means all your doing and working and striving to try to be GOOD, so that God will accept YOUR "works"..... is a "filthy rag" in God's eyes, as this is a SINNER ( YOu) ... = "ALL have SINNED"..

A.) "ALL = have sinned, there is NONE Righteous, no not one".... so, there goes your "self righteousness" theology.

And that is your starting point. You only get more corrupted from there...adding sin to sin endlessly.

It just crashed and burned again, @Episkopos .

So then How does a SINNER become "righteous", when God requires it for entrance into heaven, yet "ALL HAVE SINNED"... and "there is NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO NOT ONE".... ?

Reader, HELL is waiting for ALL who have not understood WHY Jesus gave Himself for your SIN on The CROSS.

Jesus was also raised from the dead. It isn't the death of Jesus that justifies...it is His resurrection LIFE that justifies (Paul says this). IF Jesus be not RAISED then you are still in your sins (Paul says this) (see here is where I cite a verse and people think it's just me saying it....because they don't really know the bible at all)

So, when you read some heretics gospel garbage that is telling you that you OF YOURSELF can "do righteousness", when The Cross of Christ proves you have none..............

False. We are to DO righteousness to be accepted by God. Doing unrighteousness gets you rejected from God. And you have to DO one or the other. You don't realize that you are ALWAYS DOING something...whether good or bad. Since you HATE the idea of doing good...guess what you are always doing?

Do you understand that you are being DECEIVED if you are being told that YOU can "do Righteousness".......

You better figure this out reader........

Yes...don't do what is bad like Behold...DO what is right.

= Very simple........the BELIEVER who has come to Jesus by Faith, receives "the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS" from God, that is God's "imputed righteousness"

These terms are contradictory. You have a novice's approach of conflating things that are not on the same level. Imputed righteousness is OUR righteousness being accepted by God. The GIFT of righteousness is by translation into the perfection of Christ where there is no sin. You are very confused in thinking that you can sin MORE as you claim to be as righteous as God...rather than be only humanly righteous.

A logical fallacy. God doesn't want you to sin in YOUR righteousness..no...He wants you to sin in HIS righteousness. That is the theology of the absurd...that people gravitate to like moths to a flame.

that was first given to Abraham, and is now offered to "as many as will believe" in Jesus.
That's how you get it, and that is the only WAY. ... (John 14:6) that a SINNER can become righteous.

Total fabrication from a bad reading of the text.

Believing and trusting in the "finished work" of Christ for self-righteous naming and claiming...is for the deceived, the unlearned and the unstable.

The righteousness of faith can only be IMPUTED by God...not self-imputed by a narcissistic and selfish reading of the bible.

The GIFT of righteousness is about the elevation into the higher walk in Zion...that most people here don't realize even exists.

 

[Episkopos]

I give people here a LOT more credit than I should. I figure people know the bible as much as I do....big mistake. I'm realizing how little biblical knowledge people actually have...never mind a lack of understanding of what is written. I cite verses a LOT without putting in chapter and verse markers...thinking...people will know that it's in the bible.

BUT THEY DON"T KNOW that it's in the bible!

They think I'm making it up...based on their ignorance of God's word. So in future I will say...Paul says...or Jesus says...otherwise writing down all the chapter and verses will be laborious and too long to read. I use a short-hand with people who know the bible. But there are far too many novices here for me to assume they know that what I say comes straight from the word of God.

 

[Lizbeth]

One would have to be blind indeed to not see that the kingdom of God is a RADICAL meritocracy (if you don't produce enough fruit you are rejected). You are reading the bible through rose-tinted glasses indeed with a flowers and rainbows utopian view that ignores the many warnings that are written as plain as day.

Entering God's kingdom is a gift.....no one merits being put into the heavenly race. But after one is in the heavenly realm it is about rewards of merit. Of course I don't think basically any here have ever actually entered INTO the kingdom realm of the Spirit for any length of time so as to SEE what it's about. For those who have trouble with reading skills I list the following meritocratic aspects of God's kingdom.

Those who PRODUCE a return on God's investment get a reward to the level of their achievement. A man who was given one talent and PRODUCES another will rule over one city. And any subsequent return on investment for further deposits (talents) gets the commensurate amount of cities to rule.

God tells Cain...if you get it right will I not also accept you?

He who overcomes as Jesus did will sit on a throne with Jesus.

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. Rev. 3:4

We will reap as we have sown...not as Jesus has sown.

“I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,” Eph 4:1

“Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.” Matt. 22:8


That's what you are doing...parroting what you have been conditioned by endless repetition to believe. No power from heaven...no experience of the heavenly walk...just man-made platitudes from people who are alien to the life of God.


Yes. By the same Spirit. In sober realization and balance.Using the WHOLE bible as reference.


Again, arrogance is why you can't hear the truth. You are projecting your dullness onto me.


What kind of works follow your easy-peasy gospel? A slightly better morality than the world offers? Works of perfection in Christ? (of course not)

An actual salvation is followed by a lack of sin in thought or action. But you are merely advocating a human version of a religion loosely based on things ABOUT Jesus.

The very fact that you can't see how God's judgment works makes you think God respects certain people over others...with yourself at the top of the pyramid. From there you can judge all others as hell-bound. But you are taking a position that you literally don't MERIT. God makes a man worthy....but he must walk in it to remain worthy.

Without maintaining obedience to God one falls from grace. Sin still separates us from God. The wages of sin is still death.

I only cite what is written. Your faux outrage is not based on anything but a bad reading of scripture. You are unlearned AND unstable, and should take a far more humble stance when reading things you have no experience of. Be more like the Bereans who searched the scriptures to see if the WEIRD sounding things Paul was speaking of were actually in the bible.

So you rail at the verses I cite because they don't fit your indoctrination. JW's are more open to the truth than you are. Being obstinate and arrogant does not make you right. Do God's work not the devil's. Engage the argument without acting like a religious fool. God is looking for spiritual fruit not religious nuts.

Since the truth is so alien to you, take it one step at a time... Look up what a meritocracy is...and look what that means. Is it equality of outcome? Or is it equality of opportunity? Many are called but few are chosen. Do you know why that is such? Is being chosen like a game of chance...or does God choose specifically according to certain QUALIFICATIONS....that are actually listed over and over again in the bible. But you can't see them. Certain verses have blinded you because of a human religious hubris that tells you that you are on the inside. It is the "emperor's new clothes" of an assumed righteousness that acts as a barrier to the truth.

They cover with a covering that is not according to My Spirit, that they may add sin to sin. (adding religious pride to common carnal sinning) (I better cite chapter and verse otherwise the unlearned will think I'm making this up...read Is. 30:1)

Yet Jesus said without Me you can do nothing. You're only partly right with some of the things you are saying. That is what happens when the carnal mind is involved....it doesn't know how to think or teach in spirit. In this case you are leaving out mercy and grace and leaving it up to people to be "good enough" and to "earn" their salvation. People who think they have "earned" certain things have a problem with pride. Where is God getting the glory here? He isn't at all. This is what I would call "fallen from grace" type of teaching.

Calling people "religious nuts" and "scripture monkeys"... ? Golly. Is that what you consider to be righteousness and good fruit? Why should anyone listen to someone who is always belittling and talking down to people like this?

 

[amigo de christo]

More Theological rambling that tries to sound "spirituaL".
Its your ministry @Episkopos .

And your specific nonsense about "going through gates" as a requiriement of any Chrisitan (to go to Heaven or to be accepted by God)... is just more of the bizarre religious concepts that you borrowed from some commentary or online site. (Heretics).

Now lets look at your odd screenshot, and we notice that it says "the way of righteousness" "what can we do".
And the only true answer to this is......"you can do NOTHING"......as what can a SINNER do, who has no righteousness. ???

"well Behold, there is that verse about doing righteousness"........= yet a sinner HAS NO RIGHTEOUSNESS"..... and this is why Jesus came here.
He came here to FORGIVE OUR SIN on THE CROSS, so that God can then provided "the Gift of Righteousness".

"well Behold......never mind that, because i have this verse that comes from the OT, that is the OLD COVENANT, and so, that is my entire works based Cross rejecting theology". @Episkopos .

LOOK AGAIN, Deceiver........ = "There is NONE RIOHTEOUS, NO NOT ONE">.........and that means all your doing and working and striving to try to be GOOD, so that God will accept YOUR "works"..... is a "filthy rag" in God's eyes, as this is a SINNER ( YOu) ... = "ALL have SINNED"..

A.) "ALL = have sinned, there is NONE Righteous, no not one".... so, there goes your "self righteousness" theology.

It just crashed and burned again, @Episkopos .

So then How does a SINNER become "righteous", when God requires it for entrance into heaven, yet "ALL HAVE SINNED"... and "there is NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO NOT ONE".... ?

Reader, HELL is waiting for ALL who have not understood WHY Jesus gave Himself for your SIN on The CROSS.

So, when you read some heretics gospel garbage that is telling you that you OF YOURSELF can "do righteousness", when The Cross of Christ proves you have none..............

Do you understand that you are being DECEIVED if you are being told that YOU can "do Righteousness".......

You better figure this out reader........


= Very simple........the BELIEVER who has come to Jesus by Faith, receives "the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS" from God, that is God's "imputed righteousness" that was first given to Abraham, and is now offered to "as many as will believe" in Jesus.
That's how you get it, and that is the only WAY. ... (John 14:6) that a SINNER can become righteous.

For this is the will of GOD that ye Believe on HIS SON CHRIST JESUS .
Epi sits high on inclusivity and yet realizes not that inclusivity sets high on A LIE .
JESUS the CHRIST is the only way one may be made the righteousness of GOD .
And for all of those inclusive ecumeinical ones that t ry and make void BELEIF
allow a word .
What will it profit a man , though he gave his goods to the poor
and etc , WHEN said man CALLS GOD A LIAR . To call GOD a liar is NOT RIGHTEOUS at all
Nor is it holy ,
And here is who calls GOD a liar .
HE who BELIEVES NOT the testimony that GOD gave of the SON calls GOD a liar .
But he who recieves His testimony has set to his seal that GOD IS TRUE .
Epi is in dire deadly and upmost trouble and if he repents not will wail on the day of the LORD .
As for me , WE can do NOTHING without HIM , and thus TO HE is whom i shall continue to POINT .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yet Jesus said without Me you can do nothing. You're only partly right with some of the things you are saying. That is what happens when the carnal mind is involved....it doesn't know how to think or teach in spirit. In this case you are leaving out mercy and grace and leaving it up to people to be "good enough" and to "earn" their salvation. People who think they have "earned" certain things have a problem with pride. Where is God getting the glory here? He isn't at all. This is what I would call "fallen from grace" type of teaching.

Calling people "religious nuts" and "scripture monkeys"... ? Golly. Is that what you consider to be righteousness and good fruit? Why should anyone listen to someone who is always belittling and talking down to people like this?

That is a good reminder sister .
But i have a far better question for us all .
WHY would anyone sit and listen to anyone who says OH ITS OKAY TOCALL GOD A LIAR .
For he who BELIEVES NOT the testimony that GOD gave of the SON , DOES exactly that , calls GOD A LIAR .
So how righteous and holy is it for one to try and make void the very gospel that sure do entail one must Believe on JESUS the CHRIST .
As john well wrote , YE have no need that one teach you but as the SAME annointing teaches you .
EPI is not teaching the one true gopsel of our salvation . ITS another one which is no gospel at all .
SO he only needs be exposed and warned to repent and to cease .
Many many who do twist things can sound very very wise , because in part they do and will bring truths
but imply by such t ruths it was not necessary to have TO BLEIEVE ON HE whom GOD did send .
MAKING THE WHOLE of it all A LIE . Just as the serpent do and does . Always using scriptures
but in a way that makes void THE TRUTH , rather than bringing scrips to SUPPORT the TRUTH .