Who is Paul discussing in 2 Thessalonians 2?

[ewq1938]

Again, you "cherry pick" people's posts.
By taking sentences out context of what is posted, it's easy for you to take "pot shots" at only what you choose to respond to, thus leaving the audience in the dark about the whole of what was written in support of the person's post that you are replying to.

I don't take anything out of context nor misrepresent it.

"Wrong, there is no secret rapture."
>Will everyone literally see Jesus from heaven during your rapture of the church?

I don't know who will see it or not but it isn't done secretly.

"The thousand years is literal not symbolic. The Greek word used is a specific number that cannot be one day less or more."
> The context of 2 Peter 3:8 doesn't at all reveal that a thousand years "is a specific number".

That's false. A thousand years is compared to a day, both literal periods of time.

It is you that promotes church-ianity which are beliefs the bible does not teach.
> It is not I who pushes the prophetic 70th week (7 years) of Daniel out of context and into the far future, and then fabricate a false narrative to explain it.

The trib is 42 months not 7 years, Rev 13. It is a future period of time not a false Preterist fulfilled time period.

 

[radikal21]

It is a future period of time not a false Preterist fulfilled time period.

Yebut future from Daniel's viewpoint, or even John. 42 months fit perfectly well if you read Josephus.

 

[covenantee]

Ye but the passage certainly sounds like a specific *man* being restrained right now (at the time he was writing). And from a preteristic understanding of the term *last days* it would have to have been fulfilled before the destruction of the temple.

No.

Same as this man:

2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Expressed singularly but realized plurally.

Where in my post do you see "last days"?

 

[radikal21]

Where in my post do you see "last days"?

Oh sorry, but according to my understanding the last/latter days and the day of the Lord are synonymous.

"that you not be quickly shaken from your [b]composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a [c]message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come"

I automatically connected that because it's part of the passage in Thessalonians.

Expressed singularly but realized plurally.

Yea alright I get what you're saying now. However, it seems strange to me that he should write to the Thessalonians all this, even telling them exactly what restrains him right now, even though he's hundreds of years away.

 

[PeterAndroz]

My post 978 is on page 49.

I read your thoughts/opinions.
List the verses that teach the same as 1 Thess 4:17



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Earburner's reply:
Unfortunately, your view is 100% wrong!!
Not because I think so, but rather I know so, and here is why:
There is no such thing as there being anything of a pre-tribulation, mid-triblulation or a post-tribulation.

That polluted belief is fabricated out of the 7 day-years of the prophetic 70th week about Jesus, which was hi-jacked out of its context in Dan. 9:24-27, and then pushed out into the far future, in order to hook it up with a no show, future wannabe person that "church-ianity" loves to call "THE" Antichrist.

The truthful and factual understanding is that the period of Great tribulation began in 70AD. with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem and shall continue on UNTIL the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

 

[William Barton]

Is the following helpful ?
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IMO:
o. "Dispense" stems from Latin dispensare = "to administer a task."
o. In this context the task is to maintain order in the Middle East.
o. Six nations were ordained to do this:
--Egypt
--Assyria
--Babylon
--Persia
--Greece
--Rome
o. Jesus came during the Roman empire, but the Romans killed him.
o. This action was prompted by Satan (John 13:2).

 

[PeterAndroz]

IMO:
o. "Dispense" stems from Latin dispensare = "to administer a task."
o. In this context the task is to maintain order in the Middle East.
o. Six nations were ordained to do this:
--Egypt
--Assyria
--Babylon
--Persia
--Greece
--Rome
o. Jesus came during the Roman empire, but the Romans killed him.
o. This action was prompted by Satan (John 13:2).

I was responding to the teachings of Paul

 

[JimKnox]

Again, you "cherry pick" people's posts.
By taking sentences out context of what is posted, it's easy for you to take "pot shots" at only what you choose to respond to, thus leaving the audience in the dark about the whole of what was written in support of the person's post that you are replying to.

"Wrong, there is no secret rapture."
>Will everyone literally see Jesus from heaven during your rapture of the church?

"The thousand years is literal not symbolic. The Greek word used is a specific number that cannot be one day less or more."
> The context of 2 Peter 3:8 doesn't at all reveal that a thousand years "is a specific number". What is your word selection for that Greek word and the meaning of that Greek word?
Was the following your selection?
Strong's Number - G5507
Greek: χίλιοι
Transliteration: chilioi
Pronunciation: khil'-ee-oy
Definition: Plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand: - thousand.
KJV Usage: thousand (11x).
Occurs: 11
In verses: 10

It is you that promotes church-ianity which are beliefs the bible does not teach.
> It is not I who pushes the prophetic 70th week (7 years) of Daniel out of context and into the far future, and then fabricate a false narrative to explain it.

Early pretribbers were known as Chiliasts.

 

[ewq1938]

Yebut future from Daniel's viewpoint, or even John. 42 months fit perfectly well if you read Josephus.

At best it was a shadow of the future 42 months not a fulfillment.

 

[ewq1938]

Early pretribbers were known as Chiliasts.

No, the Chiliasts (meaning a thousand) were the early version of Premill's because they believed Jesus returned before the thousand years not after.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Early pretribbers were known as Chiliasts.

Or you could quote the verses from Paul that debunks the pre-trib :)

 

[covenantee]

Oh sorry, but according to my understanding the last/latter days and the day of the Lord are synonymous.

"that you not be quickly shaken from your [b]composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a [c]message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come"

I automatically connected that because it's part of the passage in Thessalonians.



Yea alright I get what you're saying now. However, it seems strange to me that he should write to the Thessalonians all this, even telling them exactly what restrains him right now, even though he's hundreds of years away.

Paul was addressing the misconception about the day of the Lord which was misleading the Thessalonians at that time, so there was nothing strange about what he did.

It was what would be expected of Paul.

 

[covenantee]

Early pretribbers were known as Chiliasts.

What chiliasts were pretribbers?

 

[JimKnox]

Y

No, the Chiliasts (meaning a thousand) were the early version of Premill's because they believed Jesus returned before the thousand years not after.

You have that confused with preterism.

 

[ewq1938]

Y

You have that confused with preterism.

No, what I posted is accurate.

 

[Earburner]

I read your thoughts/opinions.
List the verses that teach the same as 1 Thess 4:17
View attachment 88152


.
View attachment 88151
.
Earburner's reply:
Unfortunately, your view is 100% wrong!!
Not because I think so, but rather I know so, and here is why:
There is no such thing as there being anything of a pre-tribulation, mid-triblulation or a post-tribulation.

That polluted belief is fabricated out of the 7 day-years of the prophetic 70th week about Jesus, which was hi-jacked out of its context in Dan. 9:24-27, and then pushed out into the far future, in order to hook it up with a no show, future wannabe person that "church-ianity" loves to call "THE" Antichrist.

The truthful and factual understanding is that the period of Great tribulation began in 70AD. with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem and shall continue on UNTIL the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Peter,
I am trying to understand what you were trying to get at. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

There is a "rapture", a "snatching away" of the church", but by no means is it going to be secret or hidden. Scripturally, it is shown to be very visible as being a  SIMULTANEOUS event, in conjunction with Christ taking vengeance on all the unsaved.
The question is: WHEN is WHEN?

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Luke 17:28-30
[28] Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the SAME [24 hour] day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the [SAME 24 hour] day WHEN the Son of man is revealed [from heaven].