MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

[WPM]

""and all liars""
Looks like you & I are going to the LOF since we both have lied at some time in our life and if you've ever lied you are a liar.
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 won't save us.
Agree ? :)

We are not identified by sin but Christ. We are forgiven.

 

[WPM]

Do you believe the WICKED are included in the highlighted words
.
1 Thess 4:
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Where does it say that the wicked will be left for years after that in 1 Thess 4? It is not there!

 

[Scott Downey]

Where does it say that the wicked will be left for years after that in 1 Thess 4? It is not there!

Yes, the wicked are cut off, but the people of God inherit the earth

Psalm 37:9–11​

"For those who are evil will be destroyed, but those who hope in the Lord will inherit the land. A little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy peace and prosperity."

Psalm 37:29​

"The righteous will inherit the land and dwell in it forever."

Proverbs 2:21–22​

"For the upright will live in the land, and the blameless will remain in it; but the wicked will be cut off from the land, and the unfaithful will be torn from it."

Proverbs 10:30​

"The righteous will never be uprooted, but the wicked will not remain in the land."

Matthew 5:5​

"Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth."

 

[Scott Downey]

Psalm 101:7-8

New King James Version

​

7 He who works deceit shall not dwell within my house;
He who tells lies shall not [a]continue in my presence.
8 Early I will destroy all the wicked of the land,
That I may cut off all the evildoers from the city of the Lord.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You better go ask a English Teacher about that

EXAMPLES:
1. the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ - 2 Cor 1:3
2. to keep the unity of the Spirit
3. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself?

What in the world are you talking about? English teachers have no clue how to interpret scripture. The text says Jesus Himself is the firstfruit(s). You are trying to get around that. Scripture explicitly says He was the first to rise from the dead (Acts 26:23). In what sense was He the first to rise from the dead? Unto bodily immortality, obviously. You are trying to do anything you can do to get around this truth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You better go ask a English Teacher about that

EXAMPLES:
1. the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ - 2 Cor 1:3
2. to keep the unity of the Spirit
3. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself?

Tell me, does someone need to be bodily resurrected in order to be priests of God the Father and of Christ and in order to reign with Him and to make it so that the second death has no power over them?

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

rwb, you say our mortal bodies will be "changed from mortal to immortal" — but that actually contradicts the very analogy Paul uses to explain how resurrection works.

Paul says in v.37: "thou sowest not that body that shall be." The seed that goes into the ground is explicitly NOT the body that comes up. It rots. God then gives it a new body as He pleases (v.38). The old body is sown in corruption, weakness, and dishonour — something entirely new is raised in incorruption, power, and glory (v.42-43).

So the seed analogy isn't about transformation of the old body — it's about the old body being left behind while God gives new life a new body. What carries through is the life, not the old physical matter. Paul couldn't have made it clearer: "thou sowest not that body that shall be."

Paul is very clear that the bodies of all believers will be changed at the same time at the last trumpet and that will include all of the dead in Christ who will be resurrected at the same time and you deny this. The last trumpet has not yet sounded.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Maybe you misunderstand me?

I don't think so.

In Revelation 20 there are only 2 resurrection events mentioned.

1) the first resurrection

2) the resurrection of the rest of the dead after the thousand years.

Premil = 1) = the bodily resurrection of the saints

Amil = 1) = spiritual resurrection of the saints and is applicable to the here and now, thus is not meaning a bodily resurrection.

But, Amil sees that as spiritually having part in Christ's resurrection, as passages like Colossians 2:12-13 and Romans 6:9-11 talk about that. So, you left that part out.

Therefore, since the 2nd resurrection event after the thousand years could not possibly be meaning the bodily resurrection of those that have part in the first resurrection, thus the most important resurrection of all, next to Christ's resurrection, Amil has this event missing altogether in Revelation 20. But why?

Again, you have the MOST important resurrection of all missing from Revelation 20. Isn't that even worse? This line of thinking you're using actually works against your beliefs, not for it.

In Revelation 20 there is no mention of 3 resurrection events. There is mention of only two. In order for Amil to be correct, Amil needs the text to mention 3 resurrection events.

That is absolutely false. You have proven once again, possibly for the literally thousandth time, that you have no understanding of Amil. Regardless of your understanding of Revelation 20, would you agree that when we go from being spiritually dead in sins to being spiritually alive in Christ that we have then spiritually taken part in Christ's resurrection?

Colossians 2:12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

The Amil understanding of having part in the first resurrection relates to scriptures like the above.

1) a spiritual resurrection of the saints. 2) a bodily resurrection of these same saved saints. 3) a resurrection of the rest of the dead after the thousand years who are raised in order to be judged and sentenced to the LOF. Keeping in mind, the LOF = the 2nd death. And according to the text, verse 6, only those that have part in the first resurrection, the 2nd death has no power over them.

Which means once they rise from the dead they can't die anymore. Vs the 2nd death which means can still die again. But even if you think ECT is the case instead, it doesn't matter. Only those that have part in the first resurrection escape the 2nd death. Obviously, anyone raised after the thousand years are excluded, otherwise they would have lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Can't do that if you were counted among the rest of the dead during the first resurrection, therefore, don't live again until after the thousand years. Can't reign with Christ a thousand years when the thousand years would be in the past when the rest of the dead live again.

Read verse 6 again if still hasn't sunk in. Every single person where the 2nd death has no power over them, they reign with Christ a thousand years.

You are the ones who needs to read verse 6 again. Does someone need to be bodily resurrected from the dead in order for the second death to not have power over them and in order for them to reign with Christ? If so, those who are alive and remain when He returns would be out of luck and would end up having to suffer the second death.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Where does it say that the wicked will be left for years after that in 1 Thess 4? It is not there!

So I don't mis-understand you
1 Thess 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Do you believe the WICKED are part of the DEAD IN CHRIST ?

 

[WPM]

So I don't mis-understand you
1 Thess 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Do you believe the WICKED are part of the DEAD IN CHRIST ?

I answered that question above.

 

[PeterAndroz]

I answered that question above.

So there is no confusion
Confirming that YES, you do believe that the WICKED are part of the DEAD IN CHRIST
1 Thess 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

[ewq1938]

So there is no confusion
Confirming that YES, you do believe that the WICKED are part of the DEAD IN CHRIST
1 Thess 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

They clearly are resurrected without any wicked so no resurrection of saved and unsaved at the same time. Amill cannot validly claim one resurrection but they likely will reject this souynd correction.


And "rise first" is linguistically related to "first resurrection", neither being a reference to Jesus himself but to people he resurrects from the dead in a physical way. Neither are speaking of being born again/Christian conversion.

 

[IndianaRob]

Paul is very clear that the bodies of all believers will be changed at the same time at the last trumpet and that will include all of the dead in Christ who will be resurrected at the same time and you deny this. The last trumpet has not yet sounded.

In your opinion it hasn’t sounded. Surely you can see it’s not a literal trumpet.

 

[PeterAndroz]

They clearly are resurrected without any wicked so no resurrection of saved and unsaved at the same time. Amill cannot validly claim one resurrection but they likely will reject this souynd correction.


And "rise first" is linguistically related to "first resurrection", neither being a reference to Jesus himself but to people he resurrects from the dead in a physical way. Neither are speaking of being born again/Christian conversion.

"""so no resurrection of saved and unsaved at the same time"""

 

[ewq1938]

"""so no resurrection of saved and unsaved at the same time"""

A resurrection of both saved and unsaved at the same time is impossible. All the dead in Christ have to be resurrected before any of the unsaved are. An Amill would be wise to admit there are two separate resurrections and claim they are both on the same day but including Rev 20 into this means "the rest of the dead" are not resurrected until after a thousand years and in Amill math that is an unknown amount of years making the two resurrections very far apart. Either way, Premill is again proven correct.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Long post, but this applies strongly to the OP....

Please, take time to watch this. You can put it on 1.25x or 1.5x and still get what he's saying. He talks a little slow. But this will put the puzzle pieces together about the data centers, digital currency, the mark of the beast, the current war )and its purpose) ...the grid, DNA-based ID that will be required to buy and sell, etc.

It was Anthony Patch that I ran across years ago that spurred some of my own research.... bc of the things I experienced and how they used me and experimented on me (as a child) to perfect this tech they're bringing out now to link brain to computer and brain to brain.

And back then, maybe 9 or 10 years ago, I put together the puzzle pieces.... Microsoft's digital DNA, Google's digital tattoo .....and the fact that at CERN, they were saying that when entities (fallen angels) were passing through the portal, their quantum computers were able to digitally read their DNA. Back then, I heard them talking about how that digital DNA can merge with human DNA.

So, back then, I was telling people online (on another forum) that the mark of the beast would involve the person receiving a digital tattoo (probably linked to their DNA digital ID) ...which tattoo would contain the digital DNA code of the beast/antichrist. And when the person receives the mark with the digital "number of the name" (each person/entity has a set of numbers=their DNA) ...the digital DNA of the beast contained in the mark (digital tattoo) will merge with their own DNA and they will "become gibborim" (nephilim) just as the Bible says Nimrod did.

As the days of Noah were, so shall it also be ....