We are not identified by sin but Christ. We are forgiven.
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MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??
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Where does it say that the wicked will be left for years after that in 1 Thess 4? It is not there!
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
What in the world are you talking about? English teachers have no clue how to interpret scripture. The text says Jesus Himself is the firstfruit(s). You are trying to get around that. Scripture explicitly says He was the first to rise from the dead (Acts 26:23). In what sense was He the first to rise from the dead? Unto bodily immortality, obviously. You are trying to do anything you can do to get around this truth.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Tell me, does someone need to be bodily resurrected in order to be priests of God the Father and of Christ and in order to reign with Him and to make it so that the second death has no power over them?
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Paul is very clear that the bodies of all believers will be changed at the same time at the last trumpet and that will include all of the dead in Christ who will be resurrected at the same time and you deny this. The last trumpet has not yet sounded.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I don't think so.
But, Amil sees that as spiritually having part in Christ's resurrection, as passages like Colossians 2:12-13 and Romans 6:9-11 talk about that. So, you left that part out.
Again, you have the MOST important resurrection of all missing from Revelation 20. Isn't that even worse? This line of thinking you're using actually works against your beliefs, not for it.
That is absolutely false. You have proven once again, possibly for the literally thousandth time, that you have no understanding of Amil. Regardless of your understanding of Revelation 20, would you agree that when we go from being spiritually dead in sins to being spiritually alive in Christ that we have then spiritually taken part in Christ's resurrection?
Colossians 2:12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
The Amil understanding of having part in the first resurrection relates to scriptures like the above.
You are the ones who needs to read verse 6 again. Does someone need to be bodily resurrected from the dead in order for the second death to not have power over them and in order for them to reign with Christ? If so, those who are alive and remain when He returns would be out of luck and would end up having to suffer the second death.
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They clearly are resurrected without any wicked so no resurrection of saved and unsaved at the same time. Amill cannot validly claim one resurrection but they likely will reject this souynd correction.
And "rise first" is linguistically related to "first resurrection", neither being a reference to Jesus himself but to people he resurrects from the dead in a physical way. Neither are speaking of being born again/Christian conversion.
In your opinion it hasn’t sounded. Surely you can see it’s not a literal trumpet.
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"""so no resurrection of saved and unsaved at the same time"""
A resurrection of both saved and unsaved at the same time is impossible. All the dead in Christ have to be resurrected before any of the unsaved are. An Amill would be wise to admit there are two separate resurrections and claim they are both on the same day but including Rev 20 into this means "the rest of the dead" are not resurrected until after a thousand years and in Amill math that is an unknown amount of years making the two resurrections very far apart. Either way, Premill is again proven correct.
Long post, but this applies strongly to the OP....
Please, take time to watch this. You can put it on 1.25x or 1.5x and still get what he's saying. He talks a little slow. But this will put the puzzle pieces together about the data centers, digital currency, the mark of the beast, the current war )and its purpose) ...the grid, DNA-based ID that will be required to buy and sell, etc.
It was Anthony Patch that I ran across years ago that spurred some of my own research.... bc of the things I experienced and how they used me and experimented on me (as a child) to perfect this tech they're bringing out now to link brain to computer and brain to brain.
And back then, maybe 9 or 10 years ago, I put together the puzzle pieces.... Microsoft's digital DNA, Google's digital tattoo .....and the fact that at CERN, they were saying that when entities (fallen angels) were passing through the portal, their quantum computers were able to digitally read their DNA. Back then, I heard them talking about how that digital DNA can merge with human DNA.
So, back then, I was telling people online (on another forum) that the mark of the beast would involve the person receiving a digital tattoo (probably linked to their DNA digital ID) ...which tattoo would contain the digital DNA code of the beast/antichrist. And when the person receives the mark with the digital "number of the name" (each person/entity has a set of numbers=their DNA) ...the digital DNA of the beast contained in the mark (digital tattoo) will merge with their own DNA and they will "become gibborim" (nephilim) just as the Bible says Nimrod did.
As the days of Noah were, so shall it also be ....
Please, take time to watch this. You can put it on 1.25x or 1.5x and still get what he's saying. He talks a little slow. But this will put the puzzle pieces together about the data centers, digital currency, the mark of the beast, the current war )and its purpose) ...the grid, DNA-based ID that will be required to buy and sell, etc.
It was Anthony Patch that I ran across years ago that spurred some of my own research.... bc of the things I experienced and how they used me and experimented on me (as a child) to perfect this tech they're bringing out now to link brain to computer and brain to brain.
And back then, maybe 9 or 10 years ago, I put together the puzzle pieces.... Microsoft's digital DNA, Google's digital tattoo .....and the fact that at CERN, they were saying that when entities (fallen angels) were passing through the portal, their quantum computers were able to digitally read their DNA. Back then, I heard them talking about how that digital DNA can merge with human DNA.
So, back then, I was telling people online (on another forum) that the mark of the beast would involve the person receiving a digital tattoo (probably linked to their DNA digital ID) ...which tattoo would contain the digital DNA code of the beast/antichrist. And when the person receives the mark with the digital "number of the name" (each person/entity has a set of numbers=their DNA) ...the digital DNA of the beast contained in the mark (digital tattoo) will merge with their own DNA and they will "become gibborim" (nephilim) just as the Bible says Nimrod did.
As the days of Noah were, so shall it also be ....
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But the word EPI does not mean in. It only means upon or on etc. There is a greek word or two that means literally inside of or beneath something but those were not used.
Also, EPI is used twice in the verse. The first time it's in the genitive case, and the second is the accusatory case. Same basic meaning.
Ephesians 2, not will raise us up, but it says raised us up together (with Him) and made us sit together (with Him) in the heavenly places, as a current reality. You know when we physically die we are present with Him in heaven, again as a current reality. But we are spiritually joined as one spirit with Him right now.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Romans 14:8
For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.
1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
That is that 1000 yr spiritual reigning with Him in heaven, signifying a very long time to a man which normally only lives at most 100 years.
The 1000 years is not the significant part as we inherit the kingdom of God on the new earth forever and ever into eternity with heaven and earth joined together.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [e]principalities or [f]powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
So His is the first ressurection and we are in Him
1 John 2:5
But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
1 Corinthians 6:17
But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
As to all are raised together is proven by Christ In Matthew 25
For when He comes again in His glory, we are all there, the just and the unjust and we are separated by the angels; all are judged, and rewarded each one according to what they have done. The unjust, ones who did not believe and obey the gospel go away into everlasting punishment; they are not allowed to live on the earth together with the just, you never read of that in the New Testament. There is no 1000 year delay of justice meted out to the unrighteous. When HE COMES HE JUDGES THE WORLD IN RIGHTEOUSNESS
ACTS 17
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
AND TO BE JUDGED ALL MUST BE RAISED UP, as in resurrected by Him to face the judgement
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Romans 14:8
For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.
1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
That is that 1000 yr spiritual reigning with Him in heaven, signifying a very long time to a man which normally only lives at most 100 years.
The 1000 years is not the significant part as we inherit the kingdom of God on the new earth forever and ever into eternity with heaven and earth joined together.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or [e]principalities or [f]powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
So His is the first ressurection and we are in Him
1 John 2:5
But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.
1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
1 Corinthians 6:17
But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
As to all are raised together is proven by Christ In Matthew 25
For when He comes again in His glory, we are all there, the just and the unjust and we are separated by the angels; all are judged, and rewarded each one according to what they have done. The unjust, ones who did not believe and obey the gospel go away into everlasting punishment; they are not allowed to live on the earth together with the just, you never read of that in the New Testament. There is no 1000 year delay of justice meted out to the unrighteous. When HE COMES HE JUDGES THE WORLD IN RIGHTEOUSNESS
ACTS 17
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
AND TO BE JUDGED ALL MUST BE RAISED UP, as in resurrected by Him to face the judgement
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
JimKnox
Active Member
@Scott Downey
Those passages are not the resurrection, the White Throne, the Judgement Seat of Christ nor the Millenial Kingdom of Christ.
JSYK it is obvious that is a mish mash made to be something when it is not.
Those passages are not the resurrection, the White Throne, the Judgement Seat of Christ nor the Millenial Kingdom of Christ.
JSYK it is obvious that is a mish mash made to be something when it is not.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Nope you got it 100% backwards.
They appeared to many people on earth.
It makes zero sense for you to reframe it.
But for sure it is doctrine related
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