The good man that turned bad out of necessity

[Matthias]

Christian strength.

”One of the twenty-six asked leave to speak. … Dying well was tremendously important for samurai, and they often met death with a jisei no uta, or farewell song. Miki’s strong voice reached the edges of the crowd:

’I am a Japanese and a brother of the Society of Jesus. I have committed no crime. The only reason I am condemned to die is that I have taught the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. I am happy to die for that and accept death as a great gift from my Lord.’ Miki asked the crowd if they saw fear on the faces of the twenty-six. He assured them there was no fear because heaven was real. He had only one dying request: that they believe. He said he forgave Hideyoshi and those responsible for this execution. Then, with deliberation and in a ringing voice, he gave his farewell song. It was the verse of Psalm 31 that Christ quoted from the Cross: ‘Lord, into your hands I commend my spirit.’

Terazawa gave a sign, and samurai moved in with their steel-tipped bamboo lances. The samurai gave deep-throated cries and their lances ripped into the twenty-six. … The spectacle of humiliation had gone awry. The prestige of Christians rose dramatically, and baptisms increased.”

(Paul Glynn, A Song For Nagasaki, p. 52)

Though Tertullian wasn’t Catholic, that should remind us of his comment: “The oftener we [Christians] are mowed down by you [non-Christians], the more in number we grow; the blood of Christians is seed.”

Who triumphed? The evil dictator or the Christians? The Christians.

August 9, 1945. The Catholic community, as well as a small number of Protestants, living in Nagasaki was annihilated by an atomic bomb dropped by a crew comprised of Christians and non-Christians. Another incident in a long line of incidents involving Christians killing Christians (and non-Christians).

Who triumphs when Christians kill fellow Christians? Who triumphs when Christians kill the mission field?

 

[Matthias]

“You are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

That’s not the teaching of Jesus and the apostles. That’s the teaching of the devil.

As I typed those words, the faint thunder of weapons being fired at Fort Knox reached my ears.

 

[Riven]

You and Matthias are having a good conversation and I don't want to intrude...
but want to say the following.

It is our job, as Christians to do for others -- make them happy? We'd have to discuss what that means, but not here.
Probably that you changed yourself in some way for their sake.

My point is that we can only do so much and then we get burned out.
We have to pay careful attention to the drawing of the Holy Spirit.
If HE gives us the go-ahead, He will also supply the strength to do what He asks...
If we do everything on our own strength, we will reach a point that is unhealthy and that will help no one...
not the other person and not us.

Sorry for the preaching, but some read along and it's for them too.

I think it was a defensive reaction to having my world turned upside down at such a young age. It took almost three decades, but I did eventually burn out. Now I don't speak to my mother, father, or sister anymore.

Does it hurt them? I know it does, but I just can't bring myself to care anymore. I've found that putting yourself first simplifies things.

A few months ago, there was a car crash near where I was. I was heading out of the grocery store when I heard it. Someone crashed in the median right next to where I needed to go to get home. I shrugged and just drove right on past them. Don't know what happened and don't care. I didn't get involved and that was it's own reward.

 

[GodsGrace]

@Riven has said that a follower of Jesus must be prepared to go against the teaching of Jesus and the apostles when it is necessary to do so. If I had said that on my rigorous written and oral examinations for ministerial license, I would not have been issued a license.

He doesn’t think I’m dishonest but he does think I’m out of touch with reality. I’ve advised him to discuss it with a pastor whom he trusts. I don’t think he‘s taken my advice. I’m not sure that he even knows a pastor that he trusts and can discuss it with.

Where does that leave him? Here.

From your perspective: Would it be better for him to have this discussion in the “Christians Only” forums? I neither have nor want posting privileges there.

I believe we should allow @Riven to speak for himself.
Mentioning another member is fine if he's tagged in and done sparingly...
but we are not to speak for another member.

I don't think you're out of touch with reality....
except for the thingy about protecting ourselves and weapons (of which I own none) and we won't start that again here.

We're all out of touch in one way or the other.
It's OK.
It might even be necessary to confront this crazy world we live in.

As to posting...I believe a member should be allowed to post wherever he wants to,
as long as he's civil and follows the rules.

Non-Christian members should be limited and not allowed to post in all forums.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think it was a defensive reaction to having my world turned upside down at such a young age. It took almost three decades, but I did eventually burn out. Now I don't speak to my mother, father, or sister anymore.

Does it hurt them? I know it does, but I just can't bring myself to care anymore. I've found that putting yourself first simplifies things.

A few months ago, there was a car crash near where I was. I was heading out of the grocery store when I heard it. Someone crashed in the median right next to where I needed to go to get home. I shrugged and just drove right on past them. Don't know what happened and don't care. I didn't get involved and that was it's own reward.

You're tuning yourself out.
It's a protective measure.
You're over-compensating for something.
This is personal stuff and shouldn't be discussed on these forums.
Some of us have a lot of garbage to work through...
for some it's easier and for some it's more difficult.
God knows your problems and your limitations.
I think you're headed in the right direction and self-preservation
if the first instinct a person is born with.
Don't expect anyone here to really understand you...
It would be nice to have a spiritual advisor you can really trust...
but where to find one??

 

[Matthias]

I believe we should allow @Riven to speak for himself.

He has been. You haven’t been listening. I’ve been listening to him since the day he registered. He’s telling you the truth.

I’ve been trying to enlist the aid of “Christian” members to speak with him about this but that effort has not been successful.

 

[GodsGrace]

He has been. You haven’t been listening. I’ve been listening to him since the day he registered. He’s telling you the truth.

I’ve been trying to enlist the aid of “Christian” members to speak with him about this but that effort has not been successful.

Why should Riven listen to you?

I carried on with you for pages when I first met you.
I think it was about the Trinity.
§Can't remember.

Did I change your mind?
Why not?

Same goes for our friend Riven.
He will be walking down his own path.
He will be learning in his own way.
If he's fortunate, he'll meet up with some that he respects
and from whom he will learn.
A little here...
A little there...

We cannot force him to HEAR us
and we might actually be causing damage.

If he has decided to follow Jesus...
Jesus WILL, one way or another, teach Him His ways.

 

[Matthias]

Why should Riven listen to you?

I asked him the same thing a couple of days ago. He told me why he does.

 

[GodsGrace]

I asked him the same thing a couple of days ago. He told me why he does.

I didn't mean YOU specifically...
I meant YOU and anyone else.
We tend to listen only to those that agree with us.
About everything.

When I read it back,,it sounded a little mean.
Sorry 'bout that.

 

[Matthias]

@Riven I shared a personal story with you about a work experience a few days ago. I’ll share a bit more of that story with you now.

You’ll recall that due to my supervisor being inept, I narrowly avoided having my employmemt by the government terminated. Two weeks later, my transfer came through.

For six months I was ordered by my new supervisor to sit in my office with the door closed. He made it abundantly clear that he didn’t want to see me or speak with me. I was allowed to leave my office only for restroom breaks, lunch, and at the end of the work day. What did he want me to do? Nothing.

That’s when I decided to go back to school in the evenings to earn a Bachelor’s degree in theology. (The college gave me 60 hours of elective credits for my 4 year Civil Engineering degree. I only needed 60 hours of credit to be awarded a BTh degree by the college.) What did I do in my office for six months? I worked on my college class work.

At the end of six months my supervisor knocked on my door and said he wanted to see me in his office in an hour (I think it was.) When I went to his office he told me to close the door and sit down. (Okay. I wonder what this is all about.)

As soon as I sat down he asked me a question: “What in the hell is the matter with you? Why haven’t you quit?” (Ah. Their strategy revealed.)

I instantly replied with a straight face, “I have buttocks of steel.”

He just sat there. Stunned. And then he burst out laughing. (He wasn’t a bad guy. He was just doing what he was ordered to do.)

He asked me what I had been doing all that time. That’s when I told him that I was going to school full time in the evening and on weekends, taking 5 classes. I was doing my homework in my office. He asked what subject I was studying. So I told him.

He told me that he had told upper management that I wouldn’t fold but they didn’t agree. (Mexican standoff.)

He asked me one more question: “Would you really have sat in your office for another twenty years with the door closed and having no work assignments to complete?” (He meant government work assignments.) I told him that I like to read and twenty years sitting in my office reading with no distractions was like a paid twenty year vacation.

He told me to return to my office, leave his door open and close mine, and await further instructions. A few days later, I was back to doing engineering work - in my office and on the road - struggling to keep up with my classwork. (I still graduated 18 months later with a 4.0 grade average.)

I’m not a quitter. I’m a theological engineer.

 

[Matthias]

@Riven why do you discuss “personal stuff” on forums?

 

[Riven]

@Riven why do you discuss “personal stuff” on forums?

Why do you?

 

[Matthias]

Why do you?

That’s a fair question and it deserves an answer. I’ll tell you, but I’d like for you to tell me why you do first.

 

[GodsGrace]

That’s a fair question and it deserves an answer. I’ll tell you, but I’d like for you to tell me why you do first.

I just sent you a PM.
It won't be accepted.
But we read all about you on here?!
Uffa.

 

[Matthias]

I just sent you a PM.
It won't be accepted.
But we read all about you on here?!
Uffa.

I’ve explained several times why I don’t accept or communicate with members - other than moderators and admin - by pm.

It’s nothing personal. I learned a lesson the hard way, on another forum, many years ago.

Not that it will likely matter to you, but I discussed it with the ministerial Board that licensed me and they advised me that whatever I say should be done out in the open.

 

[Riven]

That’s a fair question and it deserves an answer. I’ll tell you, but I’d like for you to tell me why you do first.

Because I enjoy talking about myself. Why else?

 

[Matthias]

Because I enjoy talking about myself. Why else?

Okay. Thanks. Now my turn.

Because that’s how personal relationships are formed and forged.

You probably aren’t going to believe this but I’m an introvert. (Many engineers are.) I don’t like talking about myself. It’s hard for me to do.