Why Christians not under the Torah

[Jack]

Acts ch26 tells us how.

We are all sinners except Jesus!

 

[dak]

My point was made = Post 71

i agree with The HOLY SPIRIT who spelled out for us specifically how Saul violated the Torah.

What Jack, (and many), do not understand is that being "blameless according to the righteousness which is in/by the law" does not mean sinless: to a Pharisee it means being blameless according to the Pharisee interpretations, teachings, commandments, statutes, injunctions, mitvot, instructions, etc., concerning the Torah, that is, about the Torah, yet that is not the Torah at all but rather their own private interpretations of the Torah, which were full of error, and leaven, and rebuked by the Master in the Gospel accounts.

Philippians 3:4-6 ASV
4 though I myself might have confidence even in the flesh: if any other man thinketh to have confidence in the flesh, I yet more:
5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 as touching zeal, persecuting the church; as touching the righteousness which is in the law, found blameless.

Because of this misunderstanding Jack, (and many), are actually rejecting the interpretations of the Torah provided by the Master himself in his all-important Testimony in the Gospel accounts, which words are Spirit and Life, (John 6:63), and they do so because when it comes to the Torah they insist on the Pharisee version and interpretations of the Torah while ignoring the true interpretations given to the Meshiah from above, from the heavens, (John 3:27-29), from the Father.

This is why Jack, being completely ignorant of both the Torah and a knowledgeable understanding of the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts, falsely accuses people like me of "attacking the Bible" for speaking the truth from the Bible, (the original languages which were indeed originally inspired). His hate shows exactly who he is, and where he is from, and where he is headed.

 

[David in NJ]

What Jack, (and many), do not understand is that being "blameless according to the righteousness which is in/by the law" does not mean sinless: to a Pharisee it means being blameless according to the Pharisee interpretations, teachings, commandments, statutes, injunctions, mitvot, instructions, etc., concerning the Torah, that is, about the Torah, yet that is not the Torah at all but rather their own private interpretations of the Torah, which were full of error, and leaven, and rebuked by the Master in the Gospel accounts.

Philippians 3:4-6 ASV
4 though I myself might have confidence even in the flesh: if any other man thinketh to have confidence in the flesh, I yet more:
5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 as touching zeal, persecuting the church; as touching the righteousness which is in the law, found blameless.

Because of this misunderstanding Jack, (and many), are actually rejecting the interpretations of the Torah provided by the Master himself in his all-important Testimony in the Gospel accounts, which words are Spirit and Life, (John 6:63), and they do so because when it comes to the Torah they insist on the Pharisee version and interpretations of the Torah while ignoring the true interpretations given to the Meshiah from above, from the heavens, (John 3:27-29), from the Father.

This is why Jack, being completely ignorant of both the Torah and a knowledgeable understanding of the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts, falsely accuses people like me of "attacking the Bible" for speaking the truth from the Bible, (the original languages which were indeed originally inspired). His hate shows exactly who he is, and where he is from, and where he is headed.

Hello dak,

BIG THANK YOU for your reply and well articulated.

i AGREE with your assessment of the error of the pharisees and how you brought forth Paul's Testimony on it.

Jack did lay down some very important aspects of Torah as well.

Let us be like GOD who said "Let Us make man in Our image according our likeness"

Let us, TOGETHER, allow GOD to Speak thru us from His Word and then submit to His Torah that Began in Genesis and Completed in teh Gospel, the Apostles writings and Finally = REVELATION.

Amen

 

[Jack]

What Jack, (and many), do not understand is that being "blameless according to the righteousness which is in/by the law" does not mean sinless: to a Pharisee it means being blameless according to the Pharisee interpretations, teachings, commandments, statutes, injunctions, mitvot, instructions, etc., concerning the Torah, that is, about the Torah, yet that is not the Torah at all but rather their own private interpretations of the Torah, which were full of error, and leaven, and rebuked by the Master in the Gospel accounts.

Philippians 3:4-6 ASV
4 though I myself might have confidence even in the flesh: if any other man thinketh to have confidence in the flesh, I yet more:
5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 as touching zeal, persecuting the church; as touching the righteousness which is in the law, found blameless.

Because of this misunderstanding Jack, (and many), are actually rejecting the interpretations of the Torah provided by the Master himself in his all-important Testimony in the Gospel accounts, which words are Spirit and Life, (John 6:63), and they do so because when it comes to the Torah they insist on the Pharisee version and interpretations of the Torah while ignoring the true interpretations given to the Meshiah from above, from the heavens, (John 3:27-29), from the Father.

This is why Jack, being completely ignorant of both the Torah and a knowledgeable understanding of the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts, falsely accuses people like me of "attacking the Bible" for speaking the truth from the Bible, (the original languages which were indeed originally inspired). His hate shows exactly who he is, and where he is from, and where he is headed.

Are you Christian? Don't know? Let us know when you and your fellow Torah preachers start obeying Torah and stop making up your own personal Torah to please YOU! Probably BILLIONS of humans working on weekends. How many have you and your Torah preachers executed? Jesus had a word for Torah preachers who don't obey Torah, HYPOCRITES!

Exodus 31:15 Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

 

[David in NJ]

What Jack, (and many), do not understand is that being "blameless according to the righteousness which is in/by the law" does not mean sinless: to a Pharisee it means being blameless according to the Pharisee interpretations, teachings, commandments, statutes, injunctions, mitvot, instructions, etc., concerning the Torah, that is, about the Torah, yet that is not the Torah at all but rather their own private interpretations of the Torah, which were full of error, and leaven, and rebuked by the Master in the Gospel accounts.

Philippians 3:4-6 ASV
4 though I myself might have confidence even in the flesh: if any other man thinketh to have confidence in the flesh, I yet more:
5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 as touching zeal, persecuting the church; as touching the righteousness which is in the law, found blameless.

Because of this misunderstanding Jack, (and many), are actually rejecting the interpretations of the Torah provided by the Master himself in his all-important Testimony in the Gospel accounts, which words are Spirit and Life, (John 6:63), and they do so because when it comes to the Torah they insist on the Pharisee version and interpretations of the Torah while ignoring the true interpretations given to the Meshiah from above, from the heavens, (John 3:27-29), from the Father.

This is why Jack, being completely ignorant of both the Torah and a knowledgeable understanding of the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts, falsely accuses people like me of "attacking the Bible" for speaking the truth from the Bible, (the original languages which were indeed originally inspired). His hate shows exactly who he is, and where he is from, and where he is headed.

Now @dak, what is your reply to the important subject matter of the satruday sabbath rest that @Jack proposed to you and Torah.

This is an extremely important Torah truth that GOD Says we must know!!!

 

[Jack]

NOBODY here obeys Torah!

Deuteronomy 13:6-10
6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, 7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, 8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him;
9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

 

[David in NJ]

NOBODY here obeys Torah!

Deuteronomy 13:6-10
6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, 7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, 8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him;
9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

i do

 

[Jack]

i do

How many have you executed?

 

[David in NJ]

How many have you executed?

No need to = God's Department of Adjustments

 

[Jack]

No need to = God's Department of Adjustments

No need to obey Torah? Utter hypocrisy! Stick with the New Covenant so you don't burn in Hell!

 

[David in NJ]

No need to obey Torah? Utter hypocrisy! Stick with the New Covenant so you don't burn in Hell!

i SAID = i obey Torah
Therefore, no need to disobey GOD for HE Alone is Both SAVIOR/REDEEMER and JUDGE

What things MUST be present for a judgment to be passed by the law of Moses?

 

[Jack]

i SAID = i obey Torah

And I said you don't!

Therefore, no need to disobey GOD for HE Alone is Both SAVIOR/REDEEMER and JUDGE

What things MUST be present for a judgment to be passed by the law of Moses?

 

[David in NJ]

And I said you don't!

GOD Says "I DO"

Haha

 

[Jack]

GOD Says "I DO"

Haha

No Scripture? Of course you don't! Torah COMMANDS executing sinners. How many have you executed? ZERO maybe? Hopefully!

 

[dak]

Now @dak, what is your reply to the important subject matter of the satruday sabbath rest that @Jack proposed to you and Torah.

This is an extremely important Torah truth that GOD Says we must know!!!

One must first study and come to know and understand the calendar which is taught in the Torah, (that usually takes years for one who is not familiar with the Torah and the Sages and Rabbis surely cannot tell you). There is a Shabbat hour in each and every day of the year for as long as the earth and the world exist.



I learned all these things from the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts, especially John, and checking his words with the Torah at all times to see if he was expounding something from the Torah, (hint, very often he is doing just that). The sundial above simply explains the pattern, and once one learns the pattern the civil calendar day may begin at any time, depending on your sleep habits: there is no need for the light of the sun or the light of the moon in the new creation place where I am with Meshiah. Moreover we are commanded not the serve the sun, moon, or stars: not only not to worship them, but also not to serve them, just as the Pharisees serve the moon each and every new month of their erroneous lunisolar calendar. The primary Shabbat is the seventh yom-hour of every sacred calendar day, (while the civil calendar day is twelve hours, never twenty-four).
.

 

[Jack]

One must first study and come to know and understand the calendar which is taught in the Torah, (that usually takes years for one who is not familiar with the Torah and the Sages and Rabbis surely cannot tell you). There is a Shabbat hour in each and every day of the year for as long as the earth and the world exist.

View attachment 88842

I learned all these things from the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts, especially John, and checking his words with the Torah at all times to see if he was expounding something from the Torah, (hint, very often he is doing just that). The sundial above simply explains the pattern, and once one learns the pattern the civil calendar day may begin at any time, depending on your sleep habits: there is no need for the light of the sun or the light of the moon in the new creation place where I am with Meshiah. Moreover we are commanded not the serve the sun, moon, or stars: not only not to worship them, but also not to serve them, just as the Pharisees serve the moon each and every new month of their erroneous lunisolar calendar. The primary Shabbat is the seventh yom-hour of every sacred calendar day, (while the civil calendar day is twelve hours, never twenty-four).
.

Should Torah preachers be executed for not obeying Torah?

Deuteronomy 13:6-10
6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, 7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, 8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; 9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

 

[dak]

NOBODY here obeys Torah!

Deuteronomy 13:6-10
6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, 7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, 8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him;
9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

Once upon a Bar Mitzvah there was a young Hebrew boy whose name was Balal, (behold, is he not mixed?). And Balal just so happened to have a close friend of the name and genos having been called Baal, which was his best friend-associate and closest confidant. And this Balal loved the Most High with all of his heart, and with all of his soul, and the young boy offered up alms and prayed every day, even three times a day, with his bedchamber window open and his countenance toward Yerushalem of above.

And there was a day when Balal came to present himself before the Most High, and the boy was in his bedchamber, on his knees, and as he began to praise and extol the Most High, it came to pass that his best friend Baal crept in through a window and tapped him on the shoulder in the midst of his supplications. And the Baal said to Balal, The circus is coming! the circus is coming! The caravan approaches the gates of the city! There be lions, and bears, and leopards, and beasts: come now, let us go out and see the affair, and you can finish your petitions at the evening oblation!

And at that moment the Most High spoke to Balal, saying, If indeed you love me with all of your heart, and with all of your soul, and with all of your mind, and with all of your strength, then guard my commandments: lay them up in your heart, and in your soul, and remember them, and honor them by keeping them within you.

And as Balal heard the voice of the Word of the Most High, the young boy was suddenly reminded of a passage wherein he did recently hear some of the friends of his Father discussing and debating outside of the synagogue, saying, If your brother the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the inner wife of your bosom, or your closest associate friend who is like unto your own soul, if any of these entice you secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which you have not known, neither you, nor your fathers, namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto you, or far off from you, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth, You shall not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him: neither shall your eye pity him, neither shall you spare, neither shall you conceal him or hide him: but you shall surely cut him off: your hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And you shall stone him with stones, that he die, because he has sought to thrust you away from YHWH your Elohim, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. And all Yisrael shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this that is among you.

Then suddenly Balal understood the meaning of the Word! So he took up sharp and jagged words like stones, and he stoned his counterpart associate Baal: he stoned him stones until that Baal died the death under a heaping pile of heaping stony words! And no more did the young man allow the voice of that one to enter into his heart or into his mind again. Yet none of the people of the town were the wiser, for in that little village nobody else knew of any kid goat named Baal. And as for Balal, (behold, was he not mixed?) the Most High changed his name to Balaq'el, for the young man was willing to annihilate a portion of his own soul and cleave away unto the Most High.

As the Master says, (quoting from Mikah 7:5-6 which in turn refers back to Deut 13:6), The enemies of a man shall be those of his own household. He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and he that loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me, and he that does not take up his stake and follow after me is not worthy of me: He that finds his own soul shall (apollumi)destroy it, and he that (apollumi)destroys his own soul for my sake shall find it!

Too bad Jack rejects the words of Paul in Romans 7:14 already mentioned previously.

 

[Jack]

Once upon a Bar Mitzvah there was a young Hebrew boy whose name was Balal, (behold, is he not mixed?). And Balal just so happened to have a close friend of the name and genos having been called Baal, which was his best friend-associate and closest confidant. And this Balal loved the Most High with all of his heart, and with all of his soul, and the young boy offered up alms and prayed every day, even three times a day, with his bedchamber window open and his countenance toward Yerushalem of above.

And there was a day when Balal came to present himself before the Most High, and the boy was in his bedchamber, on his knees, and as he began to praise and extol the Most High, it came to pass that his best friend Baal crept in through a window and tapped him on the shoulder in the midst of his supplications. And the Baal said to Balal, The circus is coming! the circus is coming! The caravan approaches the gates of the city! There be lions, and bears, and leopards, and beasts: come now, let us go out and see the affair, and you can finish your petitions at the evening oblation!

And at that moment the Most High spoke to Balal, saying, If indeed you love me with all of your heart, and with all of your soul, and with all of your mind, and with all of your strength, then guard my commandments: lay them up in your heart, and in your soul, and remember them, and honor them by keeping them within you.

And as Balal heard the voice of the Word of the Most High, the young boy was suddenly reminded of a passage wherein he did recently hear some of the friends of his Father discussing and debating outside of the synagogue, saying, If your brother the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the inner wife of your bosom, or your closest associate friend who is like unto your own soul, if any of these entice you secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which you have not known, neither you, nor your fathers, namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto you, or far off from you, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth, You shall not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him: neither shall your eye pity him, neither shall you spare, neither shall you conceal him or hide him: but you shall surely cut him off: your hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And you shall stone him with stones, that he die, because he has sought to thrust you away from YHWH your Elohim, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. And all Yisrael shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this that is among you.

Then suddenly Balal understood the meaning of the Word! So he took up sharp and jagged words like stones, and he stoned his counterpart associate Baal: he stoned him stones until that Baal died the death under a heaping pile of heaping stony words! And no more did the young man allow the voice of that one to enter into his heart or into his mind again. Yet none of the people of the town were the wiser, for in that little village nobody else knew of any kid goat named Baal. And as for Balal, (behold, was he not mixed?) the Most High changed his name to Balaq'el, for the young man was willing to annihilate a portion of his own soul and cleave away unto the Most High.

As the Master says, (quoting from Mikah 7:5-6 which in turn refers back to Deut 13:6), The enemies of a man shall be those of his own household. He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and he that loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me, and he that does not take up his stake and follow after me is not worthy of me: He that finds his own soul shall (apollumi)destroy it, and he that (apollumi)destroys his own soul for my sake shall find it!

Too bad Jack rejects the words of Paul in Romans 7:14 already mentioned previously.

Why are you preaching Torah that you don't obey? Why are you preaching YOUR torah, not God's, Torah in a Christian forum? Why don't you have a sacrifice for your sins? Why don't you answer questions instead of smoke screening?

 

[Jack]

Too bad Jack rejects the words of Paul in Romans 7:14 already mentioned previously.

Too bad dak didn't read the rest of what Paul said.

Galatians 3:10
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

 

[David in NJ]

One must first study and come to know and understand the calendar which is taught in the Torah, (that usually takes years for one who is not familiar with the Torah and the Sages and Rabbis surely cannot tell you). There is a Shabbat hour in each and every day of the year for as long as the earth and the world exist.

View attachment 88842

I learned all these things from the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts, especially John, and checking his words with the Torah at all times to see if he was expounding something from the Torah, (hint, very often he is doing just that). The sundial above simply explains the pattern, and once one learns the pattern the civil calendar day may begin at any time, depending on your sleep habits: there is no need for the light of the sun or the light of the moon in the new creation place where I am with Meshiah. Moreover we are commanded not the serve the sun, moon, or stars: not only not to worship them, but also not to serve them, just as the Pharisees serve the moon each and every new month of their erroneous lunisolar calendar. The primary Shabbat is the seventh yom-hour of every sacred calendar day, (while the civil calendar day is twelve hours, never twenty-four).
.

VERY interesting - thank you

i will review this more closely but must go now for work - you and @Jack have a good day in the Scriptures.