The good man that turned bad out of necessity
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If he's God, wouldn't the question be rhetorical?
My God, my God, the Messiah is speaking to his God and my God.
Remember, according to Catholic theology, Jesus is not a human person.
If he's God, wouldn't the question be rhetorical?
The gospels were certainly shaped by Psalm 22.
Have you ever heard of the term "self fulfilled prophecy'?
RLT63
Well-Known Member
There was plenty of time after the death of Jesus and before the writing of the gospels for folklore and oral tradition to inspire the inclusion of those words into Mark and Matthew, giving the impression of a fulfilled prophecy.
Did Jesus really say those words?
RLT63
Well-Known Member
I believe he did. He had always been in God’s presence. When he took on our sins the Father couldn’t be there with him, that’s when he uttered those words
I appreciate your frankness.
“My version of Christianity” is primitive Christianity -> the teaching and example of Jesus and the apostles.
It doesn’t appeal to you because something else does. What appeals to you - that’s what I’m interested in learning about from you - is going to put you in the second resurrection.
I’m sure you can’t hear it, but I do. That’s the devil talking.
”Did God really say, …?”
“Atheists don’t need more evidence.
In Luke 16:30-31, Jesus used a parable to teach that if someone isn’t convinced after reading the Bible, they won’t be convinced even if someone was raised from the dead before their eyes.
Atheism is a heart issue, not an evidence issue.”
x.com
@Mancunian that’s why I asked you if you have read the Bible, and how long it has been since you last read it. The evidence in scripture (and out of scripture) is massive. You’ve read the evidence presented in scripture - and possibly some of the evidence presented outside of scripture - and you aren’t convinced.
Your testimony about yourself - which I accept as true - is that you didn’t think deeply when you were a Christian. You should have. I think you’ll agree with that.
Now you’re outside the influence of the Holy Spirit, which is active in the church / the body of Messiah, and under the influence of the spirit of the devil.
You have a heart problem. It’s serious. Left untreated it’s going to kill you.
In Luke 16:30-31, Jesus used a parable to teach that if someone isn’t convinced after reading the Bible, they won’t be convinced even if someone was raised from the dead before their eyes.
Atheism is a heart issue, not an evidence issue.”
Trevor Sheatz (@TrevorSheatz) on X
Atheists don’t need more evidence. In Luke 16:30-31, Jesus used a parable to teach that if someone isn’t convinced after reading the Bible, they won’t be convinced even if someone was raised from the dead before their eyes. Atheism is a heart issue, not an evidence issue.
@Mancunian that’s why I asked you if you have read the Bible, and how long it has been since you last read it. The evidence in scripture (and out of scripture) is massive. You’ve read the evidence presented in scripture - and possibly some of the evidence presented outside of scripture - and you aren’t convinced.
Your testimony about yourself - which I accept as true - is that you didn’t think deeply when you were a Christian. You should have. I think you’ll agree with that.
Now you’re outside the influence of the Holy Spirit, which is active in the church / the body of Messiah, and under the influence of the spirit of the devil.
You have a heart problem. It’s serious. Left untreated it’s going to kill you.
@Mancunian in another thread you requested that someone who has found Jesus ask him something for you. That’s coming from a heart that is hard but not unbreakable.
I’ve asked Jesus for something for you.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
I don't see it that way.
There are men whose purpose is to build and edify. We call them good.
There are men whose talent is to tear down and destroy. We call them bad. But to oppose the bad men in the world, you need another bad man.
The gunfighter does what gunfighters do - he kills. But the destruction is warranted in this case. God can still use a bad man to achieve a good thing.
I’m living a decent life without hurting anybody and not facing oblivion knowing that I’m not wrong in doing so.
What is the difference between you not hurting anyone and me not hurting anyone, between you facing oblivion and me not facing oblivion?
Don't say that too loud. @Matthias might hear you.
God using bad men to obtain good things is Romans 13:1-5.
Oh, okay. So we're good then.
God destroys the bad men he uses to achieve good things.
You don’t believe that.
You hate that God has mercy on sinners who repent of their sin. So does the devil.
They are going to have something that you aren’t going to have.
They hate their sin and want to be saved from it. You love your sin and don’t want to be saved from it.
Brakelite
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The apostle Paul was persecuted relentlessly by the Jews.
“24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. 25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned...
2 Corinthians 11:24,25
All of the above accomplished without due process. No courts. No hearing. Untried. Yet Paul was a Roman citizen. Roman magistrates feared when they discovered they had beaten and jailed Paul without a fair trial in Acts 16 after they learned Paul was a Roman citizen. Paul as God as demanded an apology and to be released in person by those same magistrates. See Acts 22:24-30.
Paul could have used his political standing as a Roman citizen as weapon against those Jews who abused him.
Why not? Why did he choose to suffer rather than fight back?
“24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. 25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned...
2 Corinthians 11:24,25
All of the above accomplished without due process. No courts. No hearing. Untried. Yet Paul was a Roman citizen. Roman magistrates feared when they discovered they had beaten and jailed Paul without a fair trial in Acts 16 after they learned Paul was a Roman citizen. Paul as God as demanded an apology and to be released in person by those same magistrates. See Acts 22:24-30.
Paul could have used his political standing as a Roman citizen as weapon against those Jews who abused him.
Why not? Why did he choose to suffer rather than fight back?
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