LITERALLY 1 minute with a stranger & they ask you what verses teach what they must do to enter Heaven, which verses would you quote ?
Dolly Parton Believed in God, but Was It the God of the Bible?
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I can point to many things I disagree with DP about.
I can also point to things in her life that reflect Gospel teaching such as a faithful marriage of 66 years.
How many Christians have been divorced and remarried contrary to the Word of God?
If God says "30 fold", on a scale of 0-100, is an acceptable level of fruit, I am not going to judge others too rashly.
Regarding 1 Cor 3:15, can you give me some examples of the works you would say are burnt up?
If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss,
though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
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"""How many Christians have been divorced and remarried contrary to the Word of God?""
My Christian wife divorced her husband after he had an affair <<< Christ ok's divorce under those circumstances.
My previous wife, left, had relations then divorced me then remarried <<< Christ ok's me to remarry
My now wife & I were married by our Pastor.
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My understanding of divorce & remarriage is different but I do not want to derail the thread.
In the context of discussing DP, some will judge your conduct as right and some will judge it as wrong.
Whichever side one takes, I do not think it allows us to make a judgment about a person's salvation.
In the context of discussing DP, some will judge your conduct as right and some will judge it as wrong.
Whichever side one takes, I do not think it allows us to make a judgment about a person's salvation.
Matt 5:32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Matt 19:9And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
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The teachings of Christ are CRYSTAL CLEAR
Remarry is allowed if divorce is due to fornication.
If someone does not understand those verses then everything else they Bible claim/interpret is to be taken very lightly indeed
There is an argument one often comes across on forums which is "If you do not agree with my interpretation you are not only wrong, you do not take the Bible seriously".
I do not find that to be a cogent argument
Matt 5:32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Matt 19:9And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
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What is your interpretation of those verses ?
Big Mama gave me a smack for posting off topic comments so it would be safer to move that discussion to a new thread.
- Acts 15:11
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - Romans 10:9
that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - 1 Corinthians 15:2
by which ye also are saved if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you— unless ye have believed in vain.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who believed not.
Maybe a few verses can stick in an unsaved mind, but pray that God makes it real to them that He exists and is a rewarded of them that seek Him.
Otherwise they are hard of hearing, in one ear out the the other.
John 3
There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
2 The same came to Jesus by night and said unto Him, “Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God; for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, unless God be with him.”
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, “Verily, verily I say unto thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said unto Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Verily, verily I say unto thee, unless a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, ‘Ye must be born again.’
8 The wind bloweth where it will, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto Him, “How can these things be?”
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, “Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily I say unto thee, we speak what we know and testify what we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to Heaven, but He that came down from Heaven, even the Son of Man who is in Heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
15 that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He that believeth in Him is not condemned; but He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation: that Light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”
22 After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He tarried with them, and baptized.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
Acts 16:
[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
[31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Glory to God,
Taken
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Romans 5:8 does not say unbelieving sinners are already forgiven. It says Christ died for us while we were sinners. You are adding “therefore everyone is already forgiven” to the verse.
In fact, read the context: “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” ~Romans 5:1. Then Paul says, “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” ~Romans 5:9.
Christ dying for sinners is the basis of salvation. It does not mean every sinner automatically possesses forgiveness apart from faith and repentance.
Scripture could hardly be clearer: “whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” ~Acts 10:43. Jesus said the unbeliever “is condemned already” ~John 3:18 and that “the wrath of God abideth on him” ~John 3:36.
And John 9 does not change any of those verses. Calling me blind or comparing me to the Pharisees still does not answer them.
So I will ask you again: where does Scripture say an unbelieving, unrepentant sinner has already received forgiveness?
Thx SD.
Acts 9:15, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Gal 2:7 teaches me that Christ chose Paul to teach me how to be saved.
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Acts 15:11 is a good one, Peter finally 'gets' it, the Gospel that Christ Gal 1:11-12 taught Paul is now how everyone is saved & HS sealed.
That Gospel that Paul had to explain to Peter (Gal 2:2) is 1 Cor 15:1.4, Eph 1:13 and nothing else today.
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Rom 10:9 is Paul talking to the audience in Rom 10:1, is that you & I ? :)
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Jude, John etc have already confirmed in Gal 2:7-9 who they are to teach to, again is that you & I today ?
Laura
Member
I'm not debating a gotcha question about what it takes to be saved.
I certainly don't debate if salvation takes place upon simply believing that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior who died on the cross, was buried and rose again the 3rd day.
The issue here is what belief really is.
If your neighbor called and told you a tornado were coming toward your house (and you were at your house), what would you do?
If you BELIEVE that neighbor, you would take cover.
But if you said you believe that neighbor, then proceed to pop some popcorn and sit down to watch a movie, would you say you trusted/ believed your neighbor?
Does belief in Jesus Christ mean you'll never sin again from that day forward?
Of course not. But real change does in fact take place in the life of a believer because the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in them. The HOLY Spirit is not into sin, so there will be change.
Gal 1:11-12 - Christ taught Paul the Gospel
It is :-
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 & is clear & easy to understand
If you believe that Christ, died, was buried, rose 3 days later so that ALL your sins can be forgiven you ARE saved, you ARE HS sealed.
Col 2:13 ALL your sins are forgiven
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Where is the confusion, why do you have doubts ?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Faith is the fork that delivers the nutrition. There is no nutrition in the fork no matter how convinced you might be that there is.
Forgiveness is Gods attitude towards his creatures. Trusting that forgiveness does not generate that forgiveness anymore than a fork give nourishment to the body.
Everyone who believes receives. What do they believe? Non other than God has forgiven (past tense)
This is not good advice, this is Good News. These two stand opposed to each other is the sense that if the former usurps the later in its emphasis, it has become antichrist.
You need John since Paul does not support your interpretation of what is required to be saved & HS sealed today .
John (Gal 2:7-9) has already told you he is not your Apostle and that Paul is
Rom 11:13 - Paul tells you he is your Apostle
Rom 15:16 - Paul tells you he is your Minister
Acts 9:15 - Jesus tells you Paul is your Apostle
Gal 1:11-12 - Jesus revealed the Gospel that saves you, not John
Gal 2:2 - Paul had to teach John that Gospel.
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The fork illustration sounds clever, but it still does not answer the question I asked you. Where does Scripture say that God has already forgiven every unbelieving, unrepentant sinner?
You now say, “Forgiveness is God’s attitude towards his creatures.” Where does the Bible say that? That is your definition, not Scripture’s.
The gospel Jesus commanded to be preached was not, “Tell everyone they are already forgiven.” He said, “that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations” ~Luke 24:47.
Peter said of Christ, “whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” ~Acts 10:43. Notice the words. Shall receive. He did not say they already possessed remission and merely needed to discover it.
Paul says, “In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins” ~Ephesians 1:7. Forgiveness is found “in whom,” that is, in Christ. Scripture does not describe the unbeliever outside Christ as already forgiven. Jesus says the opposite: “he that believeth not is condemned already” ~John 3:18, and “the wrath of God abideth on him” ~John 3:36.
So no, faith does not create Christ’s sacrifice, and I have never said that it does. Christ accomplished the work at the cross. But you are confusing the accomplished basis of forgiveness with an individual actually receiving forgiveness.
And your statement that the Good News is simply believing “God has forgiven” everyone in the past tense is not the gospel Scripture gives us. Paul preached “repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ” ~Acts 20:21.
You are also going much too far calling an emphasis on repentance and faith “antichrist.” Jesus Himself preached, “repent ye, and believe the gospel” ~Mark 1:15. If preaching repentance and faith makes a message antichrist, then your argument has just condemned the preaching of Christ Himself.
So I will ask it once more: please give the verse that says an unbelieving, unrepentant sinner has already received forgiveness. An illustration about forks is not a verse.
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That is simply false, and you are forcing a doctrine onto passages that do not say what you claim.
Galatians 2:2 does NOT say Paul “had to teach John the Gospel.” Paul says, “I communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles.” Then just a few verses later Paul says James, Cephas, and John “perceived the grace that was given unto me” and “gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship” ~Galatians 2:9. They recognized his ministry. The text does not say John had been preaching a false gospel and Paul corrected him.
Nor does Galatians 2 teach two different ways of salvation. Paul destroys that idea himself:
“Whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.” ~1 Corinthians 15:11
Read that again. Paul did not say, “I preach one saving gospel and the other apostles preach another.” He said, “SO WE PREACH.”
And your attempt to throw John out because Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles is just as bad. John explicitly tells us why he wrote his Gospel:
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.” ~John 20:31
According to you, we should ignore John when discussing how a person receives life because Paul is “our Apostle.” John says the exact opposite. He wrote so people would believe and have life through Christ.
Peter also preached the gospel to Gentiles in Acts 10. What did he tell Cornelius?
“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.” ~Acts 10:43
Then the Holy Ghost fell upon those Gentiles while Peter was speaking. That happened without your supposed separate Pauline formula.
Acts 15 makes it even worse for your argument. Peter said of the Gentiles:
“But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.” ~Acts 15:11
One Lord. One grace. One salvation.
Yes, Paul was specially commissioned to the Gentiles. Romans 11:13 says exactly that. But a difference in ministry assignment does not create two gospels, two ways of salvation, or give you permission to dismiss the words of Christ recorded by John.
And Acts 9:15 does not say, “Paul is your Apostle.” Jesus said Paul was “a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel.” You are putting words into the text again.
Paul himself warned what happens when someone brings another gospel:
“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.” ~Galatians 1:8
Stop chopping the Bible into competing salvation messages. Scripture does not teach it. Paul did not teach it. Peter did not teach it. John did not teach it.
There is one gospel of Jesus Christ, and sinners are saved by grace through faith in Him.
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