Will performance be a requirement to remain saved in the 7 yr tribulation ?
eg Don't take the MOTB & Matt 25:44-46 ?
It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial
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eg Don't take the MOTB & Matt 25:44-46 ?
What type of question is that? Who do you think you are? Are you Jesus? Are you complying with that?
Where does it teach a seven year tribulation? You guys cannot even prove that, never mind prove that there's a rapture before this imaginary period.
Exactly. Pretribber have nothing. They cannot address a counter argument or present a proof text showing a trib after the rapture. They have nothing!
Michael Snow
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Excellent exegesis. There are excellent Bible teachers who hold to the 'Rapture' but can never be convinced from Scripture, just as there are those of another sect who will never be convinced by Scripture that there is no Purgatory. For those who want an easy reference link, Here are the main texts ripped from their context by pretribs, explained in their clear context... Second Coming, Revelation – TextsInContext
If they heard Christ and the apostles then they would be freed from deceptions, but they don't listen as they are blinded in their minds by Satan, refer 2 Corinthians 4 and 2 Timothy 2:24–26.
Paul instructs the servant of the Lord not to strive, but to gently instruct those who oppose him, with the ultimate goal that "God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been captured by him to do his will."
The Greek term for being captured alive (zogreō) paints a stark picture: they are like live-captured prey hauled into a trap. That is why logic, Greek lexicons, and plain didactic texts bounce right off them. Their stubborn defense of a 1,000-year earthly political fantasy isn't just an innocent academic misunderstanding—they are ensnared, actively deployed by the enemy to distort the scriptural record and blind the thousands of silent observers watching the thread.
2 Timothy 2:17–18 exposes the same danger.
- The Historical Error: Paul calls out Hymenaeus and Philetus by name for teaching that "the resurrection is past already," noting that their false timeline is a cancer that "overthrew the faith of some" (v. 17–18).
- The Shipwreck of Faith: This directly matches what Paul writes in 1 Timothy 1:19–20 about holding faith and a good conscience, which some having put away concerning the faith have "made shipwreck" (nawagēsan).
- The Core Parallel: Just like those ancient false teachers who messed with the timing and nature of resurrection to fit a speculative framework, interlocutors are tampering with the singular reality of the Last Day to rescue their earthly millennium. They are substituting a phantom realized or postponed timeline that destabilizes foundational truth and leads unwary readers onto the rocks.
Bible Gateway passage: 2 Peter 3:15-17 - 21st Century King James Version
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation, even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given unto him, hath written unto you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things. Therein are some things hard to understand, which those who are...
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation, even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given unto him, hath written unto you,
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things. Therein are some things hard to understand, which those who are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing that ye know these things beforehand, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.
Some try to soften the blow of apoleian yet Peter anchors that directly to the fiery destruction of the ungodly,
- The Historical Precedent: In 2 Peter 2:6, Peter uses the exact same root word when describing the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah, stating that God condemned them with an overthrow (katastrophe), making them an example to those that after should live ungodly. The annihilation of those cities serves as the literal blueprint for how divine judgment sweeps away the ungodly.
- The Cosmic Scale: In 2 Peter 3:7, Peter explicitly links this coming judgment to "the day of judgment and destruction (apoleian) of ungodly men." The context right before his warning about scriptural twisting is the total, fiery dissolution of the heavens and the earth.
- The Absolute Contrast: When Peter contrasts this outcome with the salvation of believers, there is no middle ground or graduated penalty box; it is the total undoing of those who put the text on a rack to rescue their flawed timelines.
James 3:1
My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.
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Bible Gateway passage: 2 Peter 2 - New King James Version
Destructive Doctrines - But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive...
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Bible Gateway passage: 2 Peter 2 - New King James Version
Destructive Doctrines - But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive...
Destructive Doctrines
1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction [a]does not slumber.Doom of False Teachers
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to [b]hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of [c]dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.Depravity of False Teachers
12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to [d]carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, [e]carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of [f]adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.17 These are wells without water, [g]clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness [h]forever.
Deceptions of False Teachers
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who [i]have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of [j]corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into [k]bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
James 3:1 and 2 Peter 2 lay bare the terrifying reality of what happens when people step into the role of teachers to peddle speculative systems, twisting the text to feed their own frameworks.
James sounds the initial alarm: "My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment." When men treat the solemn architecture of divine judgment and the return of Christ as a playground for imaginative 1,000-year political schemes, they are stepping directly into that strict judgment.
Peter matches that severity point-for-point, stripping away any illusion of harmless academic debate:
- The Fate of Brute Beasts: Peter writes that these false teachers are "like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed" and that they will "utterly perish in their own corruption" (v. 12).
- The Emptiness of Their Systems: They utter "great swelling words of emptiness" (v. 18) while promising a false liberty that is actually slavery to corruption. Their elaborate earthly millennium and secret raptures are nothing more than deceptions designed to entice unstable souls.
- The Final Reservation: Peter seals their outcome with one of the most chilling phrases in Scripture for those who knowingly distort the truth: they are wells without water, clouds driven by a tempest, "for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever" (v. 17).
Both Christ and Peter introduce Noah and Lot as examples of what happens to the ungodly and places false teachers directly into the same group.
Jesus and Peter lock down the finality of divine judgment by anchoring it directly to the historical archetypes of Noah and Lot, placing every false teacher and unrepentant skeptic squarely in the path of that exact same catastrophic sweep.
Jesus and Peter lock down the finality of divine judgment by anchoring it directly to the historical archetypes of Noah and Lot, placing every false teacher and unrepentant skeptic squarely in the path of that exact same catastrophic sweep.
- The Suddenness of the Flood and Fire: In Luke 17:26–30, Christ explicitly compares the unheralded arrival of the Day of the Son of Man to the days of Noah and Lot. In both instances, life was proceeding with normal, earthly human routines—eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, building—until the exact day Noah entered the ark and Lot left Sodom, when "the flood came and destroyed them all" and "fire and brimstone rained from heaven and destroyed them all." There was no multi-century transitional phase or surviving unregenerate populace left behind to populate a political empire.
- The Pattern of Deliverance and Doom: Peter mirrors this exact sequence in 2 Peter 2:5–9, citing the destruction of the ancient world through the Flood and the reduction of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes as the definitive template for how the Lord deals with the ungodly. Peter immediately contrasts this with God's simultaneous ability to rescue the godly, cementing the principle that the day of judgment is a simultaneous sorting—rescue for the faithful, and total, unmitigated ruin for the wicked.
- The Interlocking Reality: By welding these examples together, Christ and Peter obliterate any theory of a delayed terrestrial kingdom. The ungodly of the last days face the exact same categorical, sudden annihilation as the contemporaries of Noah and Lot. When false teachers twist the scriptures to invent a cushioned, probationary middle-state on a surviving earth, they are trying to rewrite history's final chapter.
Matthew 13
The Parable of the Dragnet
47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. 49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”51 [d]Jesus said to them, “Have you understood all these things?”
They said to Him, “Yes, [e]Lord.”
Matthew 13:47–50 delivers the ultimate, definitive blow to any multi-stage eschatological timeline because Jesus Himself defines the mechanics of the "end of the age" with absolute finality.
- The Comprehensive Harvest: The dragnet gathers fish of every kind until it is completely full, representing the entire mixed era of human history right up to the shoreline of eternity. There is no pre-extraction of a subset of believers centuries early, nor is there a post-judgment earthly survival phase left over.
- The Simultaneous Sort: When the net reaches the shore, the separation happens right then and there. The angels do not separate the wicked from the just at one point, and then let human history limp along for another thousand years of mortal governance; they immediately gather the good into vessels and cast the bad into the furnace of fire.
- The Definitive Terminus: Jesus links this precise action to "the end of the age," sealing the binary outcome with the stark reality of the fiery furnace, wailing, and gnashing of teeth.
Marvelloustime
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Marvelloustime
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The LORD has me my friend . You dont see me making excuses for those who love sin and o verlookingHow is your current Matt 25:44-46 performance going adc ?
sins . You do r ealize when you bring scrips all you are trying to do
is make those that correct sin and error shut up . WELL it aint working on me my friend .
Every time a sin is mentioned the judge nots run to the accusation card and accuse accuse and accuse
those who are simply trying to HELP and correct and expose wicked doctrine and sins .
YOu use JESUS words against HIM in order to silence the mouth of grave men who warn .
SO how is your
YE shall not hate your neighbor in your heart but YOU SHALL REBUKE , CORRECT HIM and NOT ALLOW SIN upon him ,
GOING FOR YOU . I been watching you all . You all think its loving to overlook sins and errors
BUT IT AINT . ITS HATE .
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
Clearly “the marriage of the Lamb” to “his wife” is referring to the final consummation of the relationship between Christ and His bride – the Church – at the second coming. This woman with her innate purity is such a contrast to the whore in the introductory verses that is judged. The two women couldn’t be more diverse. One is judged the other is blessed. The status of the Lamb’s wife is outlined in the passage and confirms her honoured status; “And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.” The bride is the body of believers down through the years, which have placed their trust and eternity on the blood of Christ, whether in the old or the new economy.
The marriage union is the glorification feat where we are eternally changed in order to enjoy God forever – this is the final act of redemption. This is the marriage of the Lamb. In short, a prepared bride is made ready to unite with a prepared bridegroom. For this climactic event she is arrayed in the righteousness of Christ. This is her worthiness for marriage.
Very true! Amen!If they heard Christ and the apostles then they would be freed from deceptions, but they don't listen as they are blinded in their minds by Satan, refer 2 Corinthians 4 and 2 Timothy 2:24–26.
Paul instructs the servant of the Lord not to strive, but to gently instruct those who oppose him, with the ultimate goal that "God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been captured by him to do his will."
The Greek term for being captured alive (zogreō) paints a stark picture: they are like live-captured prey hauled into a trap. That is why logic, Greek lexicons, and plain didactic texts bounce right off them. Their stubborn defense of a 1,000-year earthly political fantasy isn't just an innocent academic misunderstanding—they are ensnared, actively deployed by the enemy to distort the scriptural record and blind the thousands of silent observers watching the thread.
2 Timothy 2:17–18 exposes the same danger.
When people start treating explicit eschatological realities like fluid suggestions, it always ends in spiritual shipwreck.
- The Historical Error: Paul calls out Hymenaeus and Philetus by name for teaching that "the resurrection is past already," noting that their false timeline is a cancer that "overthrew the faith of some" (v. 17–18).
- The Shipwreck of Faith: This directly matches what Paul writes in 1 Timothy 1:19–20 about holding faith and a good conscience, which some having put away concerning the faith have "made shipwreck" (nawagēsan).
- The Core Parallel: Just like those ancient false teachers who messed with the timing and nature of resurrection to fit a speculative framework, interlocutors are tampering with the singular reality of the Last Day to rescue their earthly millennium. They are substituting a phantom realized or postponed timeline that destabilizes foundational truth and leads unwary readers onto the rocks.
Bible Gateway passage: 2 Peter 3:15-17 - 21st Century King James Version
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation, even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given unto him, hath written unto you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things. Therein are some things hard to understand, which those who are...
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation, even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given unto him, hath written unto you,
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things. Therein are some things hard to understand, which those who are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing that ye know these things beforehand, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.
Some try to soften the blow of apoleian yet Peter anchors that directly to the fiery destruction of the ungodly,
As ultimately the fate of false teachers is not good...
- The Historical Precedent: In 2 Peter 2:6, Peter uses the exact same root word when describing the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah, stating that God condemned them with an overthrow (katastrophe), making them an example to those that after should live ungodly. The annihilation of those cities serves as the literal blueprint for how divine judgment sweeps away the ungodly.
- The Cosmic Scale: In 2 Peter 3:7, Peter explicitly links this coming judgment to "the day of judgment and destruction (apoleian) of ungodly men." The context right before his warning about scriptural twisting is the total, fiery dissolution of the heavens and the earth.
- The Absolute Contrast: When Peter contrasts this outcome with the salvation of believers, there is no middle ground or graduated penalty box; it is the total undoing of those who put the text on a rack to rescue their flawed timelines.
James 3:1
My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.
I have been pointing out some good facts, hope people are gaining insights they may have missed!
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