It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

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PeterAndroz

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Pretrib rapture doctrines are popular fantasy, none of their foundation doctrines are real such as these verses used as validations
Rapture as a gathering is genuine, any pre trib timing of the gathering is bogus

  • 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
  • 1 Thessalonians 5:9
  • 1 Corinthians 15:51-52
  • Revelation 3:10
  • John 14:1-4
Will performance be a requirement to remain saved in the 7 yr tribulation ?
eg Don't take the MOTB & Matt 25:44-46 ?
 

WPM

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Hey Scotty.
I listen to the teachings of Christ through Paul for today
If you drag Matthew into the mix then what is Scott currently doing to comply with Mat 25:44-46 ?
What type of question is that? Who do you think you are? Are you Jesus? Are you complying with that?
 

WPM

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Will performance be a requirement to remain saved in the 7 yr tribulation ?
eg Don't take the MOTB & Matt 25:44-46 ?
Where does it teach a seven year tribulation? You guys cannot even prove that, never mind prove that there's a rapture before this imaginary period.
 

PeterAndroz

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in other words you may as well be saying the time cometh when its not about faith
but a return to works . SORRY padnah but pre trib is lying to you .
The moment a sheep cometh to faith in JESUS , IT has b een appointed unto persecutions and tribulations .
THE COST is the cost . SO enough with this ya best life stuff . JESUS didnt come
so we could have big money and huge houses and not have to suffer FOR HIS NAME sake .
In fact that stuff cannot even give one the best life , AKA the abundant life .
PAUL had the abundant life
PETER DID
jude , james and others did . YET HOW OFTEN we see or hear of them being beaten
cast out , in prison and yes even killed .
THE abundant life IS NOT ABOUT what is seen or what a man has or dont have pertaining to material things .
ITS KNOWING JESUS . they could SING IN PRISON bud . THEY COULD SIN G and rejoice
EVEN after being beaten for JESUS . THE LIFE , the abundant life
THAT NO MAN , no circumstance can take from a sheep . THEIR LIFE IS IN JESUS , NOT IN THIS WORLD .
YA BETTER flee pre trib and actually get ready TO BE PERSECUTED
Because we got us a well favored WHORE of all harlots pumping out the love of her inclusive father satan
and by means of her ecumeincal interfaith IS LEADING ALL TO THE LIE that she says will bring peace on earth .
NO , its gonna bring THIS , THE WRATH OF GOD DOWN UPON THEM ALL . JESUS IS NOT GOING TO BE DENIED .
NOR DOES HE HONOR ANY SIN , NOR UNBELIEF . NOW lets bible up shall we .
How is your current Matt 25:44-46 performance going adc ? :gd
 

Michael Snow

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One shall be taken, and the other left

Jesus teaches in Matthew 24:35-41: “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.



After telling us that “heaven and earth shall pass away,” Jesus immediately tells us: “of that day and hour knoweth no man.” What day and hour? The one and only final future climactic coming (or parousia) of our Lord. Please see the Greek word is used twice here in this passage. This final day that is approaching is coming unexpectedly for the lost. His arrival will surprise only those who are not prepared for it. This fits in with the “thief in the night” scenario found elsewhere in Scripture. It would seem to confirm that the day that Christ returns is the day when the current corrupt natural order (both the creature and creation) is gloriously changed. The wicked and all corruption are destroyed when Jesus comes. The Lord here identifies the passing away of “heaven and earth” with “the coming of the Son of man.”

Christ describes this day as an unanticipated day for many – one that will find many unprepared. For those who are playing at religion they will be caught on. They will face the same punishment as the “hypocrite” when He comes: “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” The wicked are an all-inclusive group; they include every Christ-rejecter – from the religious professors to the outright profane hypocrites. They will all be caught in the destruction when they are left behind and the “heaven and earth ... pass away.”

The Lord uses the word parousia again in v 37 to equate the days preceding His coming to the days preceding Noah’s entry into the ark, saying, “as the days of Noe were, so shall also the parousia of the Son of man be.” In His reply, Christ confirmed, what the disciples already seem to have rightly comprehended, in their questioning, that His next Coming is His last and only future coming and that it ushers in “the end of the world (or age)”

We note three particular characteristics of this day, which will be repeated at the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. (1) The wicked lived as if there was no judgement coming, verse 38 says, “they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage.” (2) The wicked were caught unexpected, verse 39 says, they “knew not until the flood came.” And finally, (3) the wicked were ALL destroyed, verse 39 says, “the flood came, and took them all away.”

Thus, the second coming of the Lord shall come in like manner, verse 39 confirms, “so shall also the parousia of the Son of man be."

1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9

1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:9 says: “if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.”





This is what false teaching produces. It is ridiculous! It is fanciful! It is absurd!



And then Pretribbers wonder why we do not take their arguments serious. That is because their arguments are a joke.

There is a catching away ("rapture") here, but no tribulation period following. That is because it is ongoing since the early Church. If Pretrib was true, this is where you would find it, but no, It is not here. Neither can you add it to the inspired text. That is forbidden. What follows Christ's climactic appearing then? Total destruction!

This is a record of Christ’s one and only future coming. This reading describes how Christ comes “with” and “for” His saints the next time. Verse 14 of our reading explicitly states, “them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” Those living believers will be “caught up” to meet Jesus when He appears. This is the final uniting of the elect on earth (the live in Christ) and those in heaven (the dead in Christ). It is accompanied by the great sound of the trump ushering in the end. The word rendered “remain” in our King James Version (which relates to those that are alive at Christ’s coming) is the Greek word perileipo, which means “to survive.” Thus, we can take from this reading that the Lord is returning for those who remain by surviving. These are tribulation saints.

This coming is not only sudden but noisy. Christ is not coming secretly with an apologetic whisper but publicly with a triumphant shout. He appears with “with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.” This trumpet will sound and bring forth the elect from all nations. I Thessalonians 5:2-7 confirms that it isn’t just Christ’s coming that is sudden but also the destruction that accompanies. Likening Christ’s return to “a thief in the night” capably serves to impress the surprising nature of this coming for the lost. It shows that the wicked are caught abruptly in their folly at the apocalypse. The “sudden destruction” is so impactful that none escape. That is explicit in the narrative. The wicked are totally and completely destroyed, allowing no room for the Pretrib theory of a subsequent 7yrs trib.
Excellent exegesis. There are excellent Bible teachers who hold to the 'Rapture' but can never be convinced from Scripture, just as there are those of another sect who will never be convinced by Scripture that there is no Purgatory. For those who want an easy reference link, Here are the main texts ripped from their context by pretribs, explained in their clear context... Second Coming, Revelation – TextsInContext
 
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