Pretrib fallacies

[Taken]

There isa reason why you are devoid of Scripture.

Every one of your Threads AGAINST those IN Christ and AGAINST Christ Jesus’ Redemption of His Church are FULL of Scriptures of the Lords Promises to His Church.

And even when you are told HOPE FOR YOU, is that YOU receive what YOU preach YOU want……TO BE ON EARTH during Gods Tribulations and Wrath sent from Heaven upon the whole world….STILL you continue commenting AGAINST those IN CHRIST with your False accusations and snarky personal remarks….which says MUCH ABOUT your character.

May God bless you with His Truth and His Understanding.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[WPM]

Every one of your Threads AGAINST those IN Christ and AGAINST Christ Jesus’ Redemption of His Church are FULL of Scriptures of the Lords Promises to His Church.

And even when you are told HOPE FOR YOU, is that YOU receive what YOU preach YOU want……TO BE ON EARTH during Gods Tribulations and Wrath sent from Heaven upon the whole world….STILL you continue commenting AGAINST those IN CHRIST with your False accusations and snarky personal remarks….which says MUCH ABOUT your character.

May God bless you with His Truth and His Understanding.

Glory to God,
Taken

I've repeatedly showed you that there is a massive difference between the tribulation Christians endure in this life up until the one and only coming of Christ and the wrath of God that is poured out on the final day. You refuse to receive that. That is why you misunderstand eschatology.

 

[Taken]

I've repeatedly showed you that there is a massive difference between the tribulation Christians endure in this life up until the one and only coming of Christ and the wrath of God that is poured out on the final day. You refuse to receive that. That is why you misunderstand eschatology.

You have repeatedly posted Scriptures which have NOTHING to do with Christ’s Church…

And everything to do with….Uncommitted Believers IN Christ, but believers IN Jesus, but are Uncommitted He is the Christ…

Members of Christ’s Church are ALREADY Committed, Sanctified, and NOT appointed to suffer WRATH…from the Lamb, from the Devil, from God.

HOW they will not suffer Wrath IS by their Deliverance from the face of the Earth…By the Power of Christ to raise them UP to the Clouds to MEET their Lord.

Those remaining on Earth shall suffer Tribulations and Wrath sent from Heaven…
UNTIL…they CHOOSE to willingly lay down their Lives FOR their Testimony of being Committed to God and the One He sent…

Now if YOU are ON the Earth during those DAYS…it is because you made NO CHOICE to make a Commitment unto Christ Jesus and lay down your life to be Crucified WITH Him.

All those DURING the last days tribulations sent from Heaven….WHO do so CHOOSE to willingly lay down their Lives unto the Lord God………
GOD SHALL BRING THEM WITH HIM!!!

Not a mystery….God shall “bring with Him”, those “SAVED” during the Tribulations from Heaven…ON JUDGEMENT DAY…

You rattling off a list of Scriptures that HAVE NOTHING to do with THOSE “IN” CHRIST…is irrelevant to the RAPTURE which is EXCLUSIVE and ONLY Applies to those “IN” Christ being REDEEMED by the Lord.

You have been given the Scriptures…”even” repeated them….but HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING of what they MEAN…


THIS applies to THOSE “IN” Christ who are not appoint to WRATH…who are ESCAPED from….who are DELIVERED from…
1 Thes. 4
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


But don’t be IGNORANT…
God SHALL Search the Hearts of the DEAD, and IF in their hearts they Believed IN JESUS, that He died and resumed Living (He the Christ or Not)….THEN God shall bring (raise up) them with Him…called the First Resurrection!

1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we (any unconverted Man) (when his body dies )believes that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

You obviously DO NOT know the Difference of WHO raises WHO…WHEN…or WHY…

You READ without understanding.
You ATTACK Christ’ Church members while quoting Scriptures that have NOTHING to do with them.

God IS A DIVIDER…and the DIVISIONS reveal the Consequences according to the DIVISIONS.

The COMMITTED “IN” Christ…have NO PART in the Last Days Tribulations and Wrath sent down from Heaven upon the whole earth.

No LIVING Humans ON EARTH in those days ARE “protected” … as you claim to go “unscathed” from the Tribulations and wraths…

No Natural Living Human body’s ON Earth in those days HAVE GODS MARK upon their natural body’s…to Keep them FROM the devastation and Horrid Effects…

What DOES SCRIPTURE TEACH YOU…will you being DOING ON EARTH…as a “supposed” member of Christ’s Church DURING the TRIBULATION?

The answer IS NOTHING…
Just as YOU have revealed by your Silence to QUOTE ONE SCRIPTURE of Christ’s Church Presence ON earth….OR ….what Christ’s Church is “supposedly” doing On Earth during the Tribulation.

The absurdity is railing AGAINST those “IN” Christ….while implying you are “IN” Christ….

You should know by Scriptural teaching “IN” Christ and Against “IN” Christ shall not stand.

 

[WPM]

You have repeatedly posted Scriptures which have NOTHING to do with Christ’s Church…

And everything to do with….Uncommitted Believers IN Christ, but believers IN Jesus, but are Uncommitted He is the Christ…

Members of Christ’s Church are ALREADY Committed, Sanctified, and NOT appointed to suffer WRATH…from the Lamb, from the Devil, from God.

HOW they will not suffer Wrath IS by their Deliverance from the face of the Earth…By the Power of Christ to raise them UP to the Clouds to MEET their Lord.

Those remaining on Earth shall suffer Tribulations and Wrath sent from Heaven…
UNTIL…they CHOOSE to willingly lay down their Lives FOR their Testimony of being Committed to God and the One He sent…

Now if YOU are ON the Earth during those DAYS…it is because you made NO CHOICE to make a Commitment unto Christ Jesus and lay down your life to be Crucified WITH Him.

All those DURING the last days tribulations sent from Heaven….WHO do so CHOOSE to willingly lay down their Lives unto the Lord God………
GOD SHALL BRING THEM WITH HIM!!!

Not a mystery….God shall “bring with Him”, those “SAVED” during the Tribulations from Heaven…ON JUDGEMENT DAY…

You rattling off a list of Scriptures that HAVE NOTHING to do with THOSE “IN” CHRIST…is irrelevant to the RAPTURE which is EXCLUSIVE and ONLY Applies to those “IN” Christ being REDEEMED by the Lord.

You have been given the Scriptures…”even” repeated them….but HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING of what they MEAN…


THIS applies to THOSE “IN” Christ who are not appoint to WRATH…who are ESCAPED from….who are DELIVERED from…
1 Thes. 4
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


But don’t be IGNORANT…
God SHALL Search the Hearts of the DEAD, and IF in their hearts they Believed IN JESUS, that He died and resumed Living (He the Christ or Not)….THEN God shall bring (raise up) them with Him…called the First Resurrection!

1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we (any unconverted Man) (when his body dies )believes that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

You obviously DO NOT know the Difference of WHO raises WHO…WHEN…or WHY…

You READ without understanding.
You ATTACK Christ’ Church members while quoting Scriptures that have NOTHING to do with them.

God IS A DIVIDER…and the DIVISIONS reveal the Consequences according to the DIVISIONS.

The COMMITTED “IN” Christ…have NO PART in the Last Days Tribulations and Wrath sent down from Heaven upon the whole earth.

No LIVING Humans ON EARTH in those days ARE “protected” … as you claim to go “unscathed” from the Tribulations and wraths…

No Natural Living Human body’s ON Earth in those days HAVE GODS MARK upon their natural body’s…to Keep them FROM the devastation and Horrid Effects…

What DOES SCRIPTURE TEACH YOU…will you being DOING ON EARTH…as a “supposed” member of Christ’s Church DURING the TRIBULATION?

The answer IS NOTHING…
Just as YOU have revealed by your Silence to QUOTE ONE SCRIPTURE of Christ’s Church Presence ON earth….OR ….what Christ’s Church is “supposedly” doing On Earth during the Tribulation.

The absurdity is railing AGAINST those “IN” Christ….while implying you are “IN” Christ….

You should know by Scriptural teaching “IN” Christ and Against “IN” Christ shall not stand.

You mentioned 1 Thessalonians 4. Where is there a tribulation after the "rapture" there?

 

[Taken]

You mentioned 1 Thessalonians 4. Where is there a tribulation after the "rapture" there?

It was not a mention…it was revealing the Lord calling Christ’s Church up to the Clouds …

Where is there a tribulation after the "rapture" there?

Where is there Gods tribulations Before the Rapture?

 

[WPM]

It was not a mention…it was revealing the Lord calling Christ’s Church up to the Clouds …



Where is there Gods tribulations Before the Rapture?

Where is there a tribulation after the "rapture" mentioned anywhere in Scripture?

 

[Taken]

Where is there a tribulation after the "rapture" mentioned anywhere in Scripture?

You might find that in a Toddler Bible.
Or a billeted Elementary Bible.

Adult Bibles reveal WHO is NOT appointed to suffer the tribulations and wrath sent from Heaven….and HOW they are escaped, delivered FROM the devastation foretold to be sent down FROM heaven.

Gee WE EVEN have the historical Knowledge OF the First Time Gods sent Tribulations and Wrath down from Heaven….WHO was NOT appointed to suffer those things….and HOW they were escaped, delivered FROM the devastation sent down FROM Heaven.

Obviously TOO complicated for you to digest, trust, or believe…

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[WPM]

You might find that in a Toddler Bible.
Or a billeted Elementary Bible.

Adult Bibles reveal WHO is NOT appointed to suffer the tribulations and wrath sent from Heaven….and HOW they are escaped, delivered FROM the devastation foretold to be sent down FROM heaven.

Gee WE EVEN have the historical Knowledge OF the First Time Gods sent Tribulations and Wrath down from Heaven….WHO was NOT appointed to suffer those things….and HOW they were escaped, delivered FROM the devastation sent down FROM Heaven.

Obviously TOO complicated for you to digest, trust, or believe…

Glory to God,
Taken

Exactly, your beliefs do not exist in the Word of God

 

[WPM]

You might find that in a Toddler Bible.
Or a billeted Elementary Bible.

Adult Bibles reveal WHO is NOT appointed to suffer the tribulations and wrath sent from Heaven….and HOW they are escaped, delivered FROM the devastation foretold to be sent down FROM heaven.

Gee WE EVEN have the historical Knowledge OF the First Time Gods sent Tribulations and Wrath down from Heaven….WHO was NOT appointed to suffer those things….and HOW they were escaped, delivered FROM the devastation sent down FROM Heaven.

Obviously TOO complicated for you to digest, trust, or believe…

Glory to God,
Taken

Where is there a tribulation after the "rapture" mentioned anywhere in Scripture?

 

[WPM]

Because the Church isn't present during the tribulation. That's why it's not mentioned. Pretty much a no-brainer.

The lack of the bride of Christ not being in Revelation....but rather at the marriage supper of the lamb is just one of many reasons that show the pre-tribulation rapture.

You want to be a tribulation martyr for all the wrong reasons.

Significantly, Pretrib writers refuse to apply the same logic they force on Revelation 4-19 to each of their so-called Pretrib proof texts. It so the insincerity of their reasoning and also the duplicity of the same. Where is the word “Church” mentioned in their proof texts? Where is it in Daniel 9? Where is it in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17? Where is it in Revelation 3:10? Where is it in Revelation 4:1? Nowhere! Not a dot or tittle. Nothing is there.

This exposes their position and negates their hermeneutics. It totally nullifies their doctrine. The view is clearly built upon sand, and that why it crumbles under scrutiny.

 

[Taken]

Where is there a tribulation after the "rapture" mentioned anywhere in Scripture?

John 16:
[33] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Significantly, Pretrib writers refuse to apply the same [/B]logic …[/B]

No…and Why pre-tribulation Rapture Does Not resonate with you.

Gods Offering of Salvation…has nothing to With Logic.

A man’s Receiving of Salvation…has nothing to do With Logic.

Logic IS Deductive Conclusions of a Carnal Minded thought process.

Gods Order…
Gods Way…
IS;
Salvation IS Offered and Gifted according to the Hearts Belief and the mouths Confession of their Hearts Belief.

Not the Logical Carnal Minds Conclusions…!

Because…Naturally, the Natural Carnal Mind, is Naturally Against God.

You appear to think a …Person WITH his gift of Salvation… owes you, or is trying to Give you a “Carnal Minded” logical explanation of his Gift, and it makes no “logical sense to you”…
It isn’t “supposed” to Make Carnal Minded Logical sense to you…
Because;
Their Receipt of their Gift of Salvation, was a Spiritual Event and Not conducive to the understanding of a Carnal Minds Logical Conclusions.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[WPM]

John 16:
[33] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Glory to God,
Taken

That shows a tribulation period before the "rapture" not after. That support Posttrib.

 

[WPM]

No…and Why pre-tribulation Rapture Does Not resonate with you.

Gods Offering of Salvation…has nothing to With Logic.

A man’s Receiving of Salvation…has nothing to do With Logic.

Logic IS Deductive Conclusions of a Carnal Minded thought process.

Gods Order…
Gods Way…
IS;
Salvation IS Offered and Gifted according to the Hearts Belief and the mouths Confession of their Hearts Belief.

Not the Logical Carnal Minds Conclusions…!

Because…Naturally, the Natural Carnal Mind, is Naturally Against God.

You appear to think a …Person WITH his gift of Salvation… owes you, or is trying to Give you a “Carnal Minded” logical explanation of his Gift, and it makes no “logical sense to you”…
It isn’t “supposed” to Make Carnal Minded Logical sense to you…
Because;
Their Receipt of their Gift of Salvation, was a Spiritual Event and Not conducive to the understanding of a Carnal Minds Logical Conclusions.

Glory to God,
Taken

Stop, avoiding the issue. Please answer these simple questions - if you can. Where is the word “Church” mentioned in your proof texts?

1. Where is it in Daniel 9?
2. Where is it in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17?
3. Where is it in Revelation 3:10?
4. Where is it in Revelation 4:1?

 

[Taken]

That shows a tribulation period before the "rapture" not after.

Before the Rapture…
Saved AND unsaved Mortal men live on the Earth….
AND
Experience “Tribulations” between and amongst men and amongst Nations.
(Like Now!)

The UN-Saved ALSO can Experience “Influences” from Fallen Angels.
(Like Now!)

The RAPTURE;
Applies TO: Saved BY Christ mortally dead…
AND
Saved BY Christ mortally alive.

BEFORE the Tribulations Sent down from Heaven…upon the whole World…

The Rapture Occurs…

The RAPTURE…
IS the calling UP to the clouds…
Bodies of those Saved BY Christ
FROM … their Graves IN the Earth
FROM … the Face of the Earth
TO …the Clouds Above the Earth
TO MEET their Lord, Face to face.

After the Rapture…UN-saved Mortal men on the Earth….Begin to Experience…
“Tribulations EXPRESSLY Sent Down From Heaven TO Earth”… (by Gods Authority).

Such Tribulations … Begin Subtle…and Increase in Severity.
Total 21 Tribulations, 3 Woes…
For a Duration of 7 Years.
And;
During such Tribulations, the unsaved ON Earth, CAN “IF” they so choose, TO Heartfully Believe…AND MAY BE Among those, who shall be Mortally KILLED. (By weather effects, By other men, By Demons)…
thereafter…THEY,
* heartfully believing, and Dead, Suffer no more of Gods Sent Tribulations.
THEY,
* are Saved by God, and their souls carried up To Heaven. ( body’s, buried, or not, eaten by animals, whatever. )

* The unsaved, living continue to experience Gods Sent Tribulations, bodily Deaths, and soul sent to hell to wait for Judgement.

We have tribulations NOW.
Gods Sent Tribulations are Entirely Different.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[WPM]

Before the Rapture…
Saved AND unsaved Mortal men live on the Earth….
AND
Experience “Tribulations” between and amongst men and amongst Nations.
(Like Now!)

The UN-Saved ALSO can Experience “Influences” from Fallen Angels.
(Like Now!)

The RAPTURE;
Applies TO: Saved BY Christ mortally dead…
AND
Saved BY Christ mortally alive.

BEFORE the Tribulations Sent down from Heaven…upon the whole World…

The Rapture Occurs…

The RAPTURE…
IS the calling UP to the clouds…
Bodies of those Saved BY Christ
FROM … their Graves IN the Earth
FROM … the Face of the Earth
TO …the Clouds Above the Earth
TO MEET their Lord, Face to face.

After the Rapture…UN-saved Mortal men on the Earth….Begin to Experience…
“Tribulations EXPRESSLY Sent Down From Heaven TO Earth”… (by Gods Authority).

Such Tribulations … Begin Subtle…and Increase in Severity.
Total 21 Tribulations, 3 Woes…
For a Duration of 7 Years.
And;
During such Tribulations, the unsaved ON Earth, CAN “IF” they so choose, TO Heartfully Believe…AND MAY BE Among those, who shall be Mortally KILLED. (By weather effects, By other men, By Demons)…
thereafter…THEY,
* heartfully believing, and Dead, Suffer no more of Gods Sent Tribulations.
THEY,
* are Saved by God, and their souls carried up To Heaven. ( body’s, buried, or not, eaten by animals, whatever. )

* The unsaved, living continue to experience Gods Sent Tribulations, bodily Deaths, and soul sent to hell to wait for Judgement.

We have tribulations NOW.
Gods Sent Tribulations are Entirely Different.

Glory to God,
Taken

Show me a rapture passage that teaches a tribulation period after it? All I am seeing is your opinions.

 

[Taken]

Stop, avoiding the issue. Please answer these simple questions - if you can. Where is the word “Church” mentioned in their proof texts?

1. Where is it in Daniel 9?
2. Where is it in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17?
3. Where is it in Revelation 3:10?
4. Where is it in Revelation 4:1?

Nonsense question.

First of all, I never SAID the Word CHURCH appears in those specific Texts.

Secondly YOU should have Read the Texts to Know if The Word CHURCH appears in the Texts you listed.

The Word Church DOES Appear in 100+ Scriptural Texts.

The Word Church DOES NOT Appear in Thousands of Scriptural Texts! So What?

Do you want to show me the thousands of Texts in Scripture where the Word CHURCH does Not Appear?

What MATTERS is to Know and Understand Christs Church IS A “Specific WHO”, not a building.

The “Specific WHO” IS those WHOM the Spirit of God Dwell “IN”.

That Specific WHO … called the Church… are also called;
the Forgiven…
the Justified…
the Covered…
the Cleansed…
the Saved…
the Soul Saved…
the Born Again…
the Spirit Quickened…
the Crucified with Jesus…
the Converted IN Christ…
the Sanctified…
the Bride…
the born of God…
the son of God…
the Faithful…
the Eternally Alive…
the friend of Jesus…
the Sealed unto God…
And…
They to be Raptured up off the face of the Earth…BEFORE Gods Sent Tribulations and Wrath…
By…
Gods Power
According To Gods Evidence…(books/records)
Of Such mans NAME…recorded …
In Gods Book of Life…
And
The Lambs Book of Life.
At the Time…
Of Gods Choosing.

I can not Speak for you.
I can Not Make Choices FOR YOU, to establish What Does, Does Not or Will Apply to You.
THAT is Your FREEWILL to establish a Relationship with The Lord God, or Not.

I chose to establish A relationship With the Lord God, According to His Order and Way… and THUS…
I am secure IN OUR Relationship,
AND fully Prepared and Understand WHAT to Expect, WHY and WHEN.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[WPM]

Nonsense question.

First of all, I never SAID the Word CHURCH appears in those specific Texts.

Secondly YOU should have Read the Texts to Know if The Word CHURCH appears in the Texts you listed.

The Word Church DOES Appear in 100+ Scriptural Texts.

The Word Church DOES NOT Appear in Thousands of Scriptural Texts! So What?

Do you want to show me the thousands of Texts in Scripture where the Word CHURCH does Not Appear?

What MATTERS is to Know and Understand Christs Church IS A “Specific WHO”, not a building.

The “Specific WHO” IS those WHOM the Spirit of God Dwell “IN”.

That Specific WHO … called the Church… are also called;
the Forgiven…
the Justified…
the Covered…
the Cleansed…
the Saved…
the Soul Saved…
the Born Again…
the Spirit Quickened…
the Crucified with Jesus…
the Converted IN Christ…
the Sanctified…
the Bride…
the born of God…
the son of God…
the Faithful…
the Eternally Alive…
the friend of Jesus…
the Sealed unto God…
And…
They to be Raptured up off the face of the Earth…BEFORE Gods Sent Tribulations and Wrath…
By…
Gods Power
According To Gods Evidence…(books/records)
Of Such mans NAME…recorded …
In Gods Book of Life…
And
The Lambs Book of Life.
At the Time…
Of Gods Choosing.

I can not Speak for you.
I can Not Make Choices FOR YOU, to establish What Does, Does Not or Will Apply to You.
THAT is Your FREEWILL to establish a Relationship with The Lord God, or Not.

I chose to establish A relationship With the Lord God, According to His Order and Way… and THUS…
I am secure IN OUR Relationship,
AND fully Prepared and Understand WHAT to Expect, WHY and WHEN.

Glory to God,
Taken

So the Church is found throughout Rev 4-19.

 

[Taken]

Show me a rapture passage that teaches a tribulation period after it? All I am seeing is your opinions.

I can not Read and Study For You.
You want A Carnal Understanding to Spiritual Events.
Not Possible.
Get a STUDENT Bible…

Learn, WHY there IS a Rapture.
Learn WHO it Applies TO and WHY.

 

[Taken]

So the Church is found throughout Rev 4-19.

And… WHO IS “THE Church”?