It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[CrowCross]

You cannot deviate off your soundbites like the politicians. LOL.

Jesus said in Luke 17:24-34: “For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the ‘one shall be taken’, and ‘the other shall be left’. Two women shall be grinding together; the ‘one shall be taken’, and ‘the other left’. Two men shall be in the field; the ‘one shall be taken’, and ‘the other left’. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.”

• How many wicked survived in Noah's day?
• How many wicked survived in Sodom?

Also, this contrast between “the days” and “day” is common in Scripture and is presented in order that we can distinguish between “the lasts days” of time and “the last day” of time, that ushers in the end. The actual day that Noah entered into the ark "the flood came, and took them all away." It was therefore an individual day that God closed the door of the Ark and by doing so damned all those that were left behind. The same will occur when our ark – Christ – arrives at the second coming.

Jesus said, in Luke 17:29-30, “the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.” This agrees with Revelation 19, 2 Peter 3 and countless other similar texts that show this fiery end to the tribulation period.

There's no space for your seven year tribulation. There's no space for your 3rd coming.

The plain focus of this teaching in Luke 17 (reference Noah and Lot’s day) is the nature and degree of the judgment that befell the wicked in these two familiar Old Testament stories and especially the extent of that particular wrath. The key element and major emphasis of this discourse is the fact (speaking of the ungodly) that God “destroyed them all.” The comprehensive destruction of the wicked in both of these examples is the important lesson of the narrative; both the whole world of Noah’s day and the whole individual city of Sodom in Lot’s day saw the immediate and complete rescue of the entire righteous coupled together with the immediate and complete destruction of the entire wicked.

Christ plainly and purposefully advanced these two days, where the righteous were graciously rescued just prior to the full annihilation of the wicked, in order to vividly portray the nature and scope of the day of His wrath at the second coming. He deliberates and graphically connected the happenings of both these former days of judgment to the day of His return. Jesus succinctly said, “Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed” (Luke 17:30).

Q. Why must we “remember Lot's wife”? What befell her?

She got caught in the escape out of Sodom because her heart was still there. Despite being fully aware of the impending destruction, Lot's wife’s heart was located in Sodom and towards the awful iniquity; this was despite the fact that she also desired to be with the people of God. Notwithstanding, Genesis 19:26 says of Lot, “his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.” Her foolish refusal to once-and-for-all turn her back on Sodom caused her to be instantly and completely destroyed. Through her un-preparedness, she was immediately cast into a lost hell – damned and doomed for all eternity – without hope and without Christ.

You present a moot meaningless point....when our God and savior Jesus mentioned Noah and Lot He ...mentioned what the economy of that day would be like. Pretty much good times. People getting married, eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, harvesting...which is nothing like the economy of the last days of the tribulation will be like.

But, you live in a delusion.

 

[CrowCross]

Give me some of your clear references to your 3rd coming then - if they exist.

After you explain away the lack of white horse at the rapture and the economy of Noah and Lot.
You've been dodging this question for months.

 

[WPM]

After you explain away the lack of white horse at the rapture and the economy of Noah and Lot.
You've been dodging this question for months.

Lol. You obviously have nothing - as i suspected. Like I said many times, Pretrib lacks corroboration - explicit support from elsewhere in Scripture. That's what destroys it. It is all private interpretation. Thanks for confirming that.

 

[WPM]

You present a moot meaningless point....when our God and savior Jesus mentioned Noah and Lot He ...mentioned what the economy of that day would be like. Pretty much good times. People getting married, eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, harvesting...which is nothing like the economy of the last days of the tribulation will be like.

But, you live in a delusion.

Jesus says that His coming brings utter and complete destruction. That destroys Pretrib. Whatever angle you look at your theological theory it is exposed and decimated. Your fight is with Jesus and the inspired pages, not me. I refer you back to what Jesus taught.

 

[jeffweeder]

I'll be returning with Jesus on my own white horse fighting with Jesus.....1

Fighting with what? Jesus has already won the battle, and even now we are more than conquerors

4 The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses.

Jesus rode a donkey into Jerusalem to give his life for us, all humble and sacrificing.
He shall return on a white horse to glorify us and dress us with a body like his glorious body, all victorious and conquering.
Paul very clearly teaches the Thessalonians that when JESUS returns to gather us we are glorified with a body like his, worthy to wear fine white and pure linen.

This is what the white horse is representative of. 

 

[CrowCross]

Lol. You obviously have nothing - as i suspected. Like I said many times, Pretrib lacks corroboration - explicit support from elsewhere in Scripture. That's what destroys it. It is all private interpretation. Thanks for confirming that.

Explain the lack of white horse and economy of Noah and Lot.
If your twisted theology is true....then you should have no problem.

 

[CrowCross]

Jesus says that His coming brings utter and complete destruction. That destroys Pretrib. Whatever angle you look at your theological theory it is exposed and decimated. Your fight is with Jesus and the inspired pages, not me. I refer you back to what Jesus taught.

Explain the lack of white horse and economy of Noah and Lot.
If your twisted theology is true....then you should have no problem.

 

[CrowCross]

Fighting with what? Jesus has already won the battle, and even now we are more than conquerors

Jesus rode a donkey into Jerusalem to give his life for us, all humble and sacrificing.
He shall return on a white horse to glorify us and dress us with a body like his glorious body, all victorious and conquering.
Paul very clearly teaches the Thessalonians that when JESUS returns to gather us we are glorified with a body like his, worthy to wear fine white and pure linen.

This is what the white horse is representative of. 

If you read Acts chapter one you see Jesus didn't ascend on a white horse...it also says Jesus will return in the same fashion.
Now, considering Jesus returns physically on a white horse and not at the 1 Thes 4 rapture...it shows Jesus returns twice.
First the rapture then at the end of the tribulation on a white horse.

Secondly, Jesus didn't ascend in the symbolic means you described.

 

[WPM]

Explain the lack of white horse and economy of Noah and Lot.
If your twisted theology is true....then you should have no problem.

You have placed a private interpretation upon Rev 19 that you cannot support with other Scripture. Your constant avoidance is testimony as to the error of your theory.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

 

[WPM]

Explain the lack of white horse and economy of Noah and Lot.
If your twisted theology is true....then you should have no problem.

If you would actually read the sacred text instead of running your mouth off and avoiding the Scriptures every time you would see that Jesus talking about the destruction on earth that befalls the wicked when He returns. They are all destroyed. The same happens in Rev 19. He is not talking about his return with His elect.

Revelation 19:11-16 states, “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall shepherd them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Verses 17-18 says, “I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. The loipoy (or remaining ones) those left behind were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

• This is a picture of the one-and-only future second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.
• It’s shows the rescue, deliverance of God’s people.
• It’s shows the total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!
• This is the end!

Whatever direction you look at in Scripture Pretrib is demolished.

 

[WPM]

If you read Acts chapter one you see Jesus didn't ascend on a white horse...it also says Jesus will return in the same fashion.
Now, considering Jesus returns physically on a white horse and not at the 1 Thes 4 rapture...it shows Jesus returns twice.
First the rapture then at the end of the tribulation on a white horse.

Secondly, Jesus didn't ascend in the symbolic means you described.

Where in Scripture "shows Jesus returns twice. First the rapture then at the end of the tribulation on a white horse"? You are yet to show that. I suspect you know what the rset of us do: this teaching only exists in the Pretrib novels.

 

[amigo de christo]

I'll be returning with Jesus on my own white horse fighting with Jesus.....14 The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses.

Not if one is a co helper to , supporter of
ANYTHING ecumeincal and its intefaith co exist of ANTI CHRIST .
Just reminding us all , we bedda not be supporting any who is of that camp .
And both the left and right are as well as the TRUMP and the nar realm , as well as THE RCC
and sc ores of others as well .
IF one cliamed to BELEIVE ON JESUS and yet made it in any way seem as if that was not necessary ......
I GOT REAL b ad news for that one . HIS or HER faith was NOT IN CHRIST
and it was all in vain . WE simply cannot do as the oprah whimphres , the popes and others have done .
YA CANT CLIAM YOU bELIEVE and THEN TURN around and all of a sudden
make void the dire need to BELIEVE as you hugging on muslims and other relgoins for world peace
and saying HEY WE ALL serve the same GOD . NOT GONNA FLOAT ON JESUS DAY . just reminding us is all .

 

[WPM]

I could give you about 22 references for the physical return of our God and Savior..and a dozen for the rapture where our God and savior Jesus Christ returns to gather His bride.

How about even given us three references – if they exist.

 

[amigo de christo]

Where's the white horse?

Beware where the crows do cross my friend for there be the dead and bloated .
If you dont mind me asking , WHY did you CHOOSE such a name . Please explain .
And what book do you see the crows as holding up and standing firm upon such words .
I PRAY TO GOD its not men wh o hold firm on to that bible and wont let go .
Cause if that be a cr ow to you , NOT SAYING IT IS , you are in deadly dire danger yourself .
So i am quite interested on to why you picked that name . Do f eel free to explain .

 

[amigo de christo]

I could give you about 22 references for the physical return of our God and Savior..and a dozen for the rapture where our God and savior Jesus Christ returns to gather His bride.

I noticed you said in one place God and savoir and then in another place GOD and savoir JESUS CHRIST .
MIGHT wanna Also explain that one .
And in those twenty two and other dozen , All thirty and three are A ONE TIME EVENT .
OH JESUS IS FOR SURE COM ING for his sheep AS HE COMETH TO ALSO LAY DOWN the wrath of GOD
upon all who had held hands in this big ol kuymbia love circle that had all the worlds religoins and christendom all
hugging and saying we all serve the same God and this is his plan for world peace .
OH HE GONNA bury every last one of them . FOR JESUS WILL NOT BE DENIED and to do so
IS TO DENY GOD ALL MIGHTY . SO may i please remind us again
TO get far and wide from anything connected to ANYTHING AND ANYONE ECUMEINCAL AND RIGHT NOW .
CAUSE WE JUST DONT KNOW THE DAY JESUS COMETH , LET ALONE WHEN A MAN SHALL BREATH HIS LAST BREATH .

 

[amigo de christo]

Fighting with what? Jesus has already won the battle, and even now we are more than conquerors

Jesus rode a donkey into Jerusalem to give his life for us, all humble and sacrificing.
He shall return on a white horse to glorify us and dress us with a body like his glorious body, all victorious and conquering.
Paul very clearly teaches the Thessalonians that when JESUS returns to gather us we are glorified with a body like his, worthy to wear fine white and pure linen.

This is what the white horse is representative of. 

And now a w ord . HE WONT be coming to GLORIFY any who held hands
with ecumeincalsim , its interfaith , its false all inclusive love broad road and peace plan .
HE COMETH TO BURY THEM ALL . And where the bodies are THERE will the vultures be gathered eating on them my friend .
This seeker friendly IS AN A BOMINATION to THE HOLY GOD .
AS is it ecumeincal harlot led false unity , false love , f alse peace , ALL OF WH CIH denied CHRIST JESUS and THE GOSPEL .
for it made him into the minstir of SIN as well as UNBELIEF . NO HONOR was given to THE SON
ONLY DISHONOR and ONLY A LIE they thought was love and believed was of GOD . WHEN IT WAS ALL OF IT of satan .

 

[Douggg]

Your charts indicate and you have said many times that many wicked survive the Lord's coming.

Where on my charts ? And what post(s) did I speak about many wicked surviving the Lord's coming ? You don't have to answer - I think you just getting mixed up about what I have shown or said.

The reality is, when Jesus comes, He rescues all the elect and destroys all the wicked, before He pours out is final and wholesale wrath. That is the pattern of history. That is what Scripture teaches. There are no survivors.

Your Amil view conflicts with the 1000 year reign of Jesus upon this earth in Revelation 20:4-7.

I will put your beliefs to the test again with Holy Writ (one at a time):

1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:7 proves Amil and forbids Pretrib and Premil. It says:

A very basic study of the passage will show that 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:7 carries no support for the Pretrib paradigm, quite the opposite. It forbids it. There is no teaching on (1) a rapture of the Church, (2) immediately followed by a literal seven-year tribulation, (3) immediately followed by a further coming of Christ in the passage. It must be forced into the sacred text.

I agree that the 7 years are not all tribulation.

The term Pre-trib is a misnomer. What it really means is Pre-70th week. i.e before the 70th week begins.

My resurrection/rapture view is not a stringent Pre-trib view. Differently, my view is that it has to happen before the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act described in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 that triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord. When the resurrection/rapture event happens could be "anytime" between right now and then. Maybe you should consider adopting this view.

 

[WPM]

Where on my charts ? And what post(s) did I speak about many wicked surviving the Lord's coming ? You don't have to answer - I think you just getting mixed up about what I have shown or said.


Your Amil view conflicts with the 1000 year reign of Jesus upon this earth in Revelation 20:4-7.



I agree that the 7 years are not all tribulation.

The term Pre-trib is a misnomer. What it really means is Pre-70th week. i.e before the 70th week begins.

My resurrection/rapture view is not a stringent Pre-trib view. Differently, my view is that it has to happen before the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act described in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 that triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord. When the resurrection/rapture event happens could be "anytime" between right now and then. Maybe you should consider adopting this view.

Oh

So, no wicked survive your Pretrib rapture? Wow! Who are all these wicked in your trib then?

Where is rapture, 7 yr trib and 3rd coming in dan 9? Stop avoiding this.

 

[Douggg]

So, so no wicked survive your Pretrib rapture? Wow! Who are all these wicked in your trib then?

I don't understand the basis for your questions. The rapture has nothing to do with the wicked.

Where is rapture, 7 yr trinity and 3rd coming in dan 9? Stop avoiding this.

You are not making any sense.

May I ask how old you are ?

 

[WPM]

I don't understand the basis for your questions. The rapture has nothing to do with the wicked.


You are not making any sense.

May I ask how old you are ?

Stop avoiding. Do any humans miss the rapture?