When Doctrine Corrects Christ

[Jack]

Jesus says:

“Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”

You insert:

1948. 1967. Modern Israel.

Yeah, Israel took control of Jerusalem. Pretty simple. The times of the Gentiles are over/fulfilled! You don't even know SIMPLE Israel/Jerusalem history?

Then you quote:

“This generation will by no means pass away till ALL THINGS take place.”

And apparently that now means the generation living after 1967.

Bingo!

Where did Jesus say that?

Where did He identify 1948 or 1967 as the starting point of “this generation”?

Book. Chapter. Verse. >

Already quoted Jesus.

You've taken a modern historical event, assigned it prophetic significance, and then used that assignment to relocate Christ’s time marker.

That's the exact method this thread is exposing.

Thanks for your help.

Stay tuned. Soon you will understand! Israel is home to stay.

Did you figure out where Jesus will return yet? Look at a map. It's called Jerusalem, Capital of Israel, Land of the Bible. Mt. of Olives where He left. Acts 1!

While you're at it read Rev 13, Mark of the Beast, Cashless society, coming right at you.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Yeah, Israel took control of Jerusalem. Pretty simple. The times of the Gentiles are over/fulfilled!

Bingo!

Already quoted Jesus.

Stay tuned. Soon you will understand! Israel is home to stay.

Did you figure out where Jesus will return yet? Look at a map. It's called Jerusalem, Capital of Israel, Land of the Bible. Mt. of Olives where He left. Acts 1!

While you're at it read Rev 13, Mark of the Beast, Cashless society, coming right at you.

Jesus Christ is not fallible.

Jesus Christ was most certainly not mistaken about His own prophecy.

Jesus Christ did not deceive His own followers.

And Jesus Christ was most certainly not speaking to your generation 2,000 years later when He said “this generation.”

You're taking your interpretation of His coming, using it to override His explicit time marker, and then accusing those who refuse to move His words of misunderstanding Scripture.

Your interpretation is not the authority by which Christ’s words are corrected. Christ’s words are the authority by which your interpretation must be corrected.

If your system requires Christ to have been mistaken about the generation He identified, then your system has created a catastrophic Christological problem: a fallible Christ who was wrong about His own prophecy.

That is not the Christ proclaimed by the apostles.

Repent of placing your system above His Word.

 

[Jack]

Jesus Christ is not fallible.

Jesus Christ was most certainly not mistaken about His own prophecy.

Jesus Christ did not deceive His own followers.

And Jesus Christ was most certainly not speaking to your generation 2,000 years later when He said “this generation.”

You're taking your interpretation of His coming, using it to override His explicit time marker, and then accusing those who refuse to move His words of misunderstanding Scripture.

Your interpretation is not the authority by which Christ’s words are corrected. Christ’s words are the authority by which your interpretation must be corrected.

If your system requires Christ to have been mistaken about the generation He identified, then your system has created a catastrophic Christological problem: a fallible Christ who was wrong about His own prophecy.

That is not the Christ proclaimed by the apostles.

Repent of placing your system above His Word.

And you still don't know where Jesus will return! Let's try again.

Zechariah 14:1-4
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, ...
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; ...
3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

Got it yet?

 

[Jack]

See you can just kinda roll with it wherever you want it to take you..

Yeah, to the Bible. That's exactly where I want it.

Have you read Rev 13 yet? Mark of the Beast? Cashless society? Better get ready and give up your preterist imagination!

"Here we observe the Wicket Dispensation, in which Princess Leia and Chewbacca’s firstborn son, Wicket, is plainly revealed to those enlightened and with eyes to see."

View attachment 89543

 

[Jack]

Jesus Christ is not fallible.

Never said He is. I quoted Him.

Jesus Christ was most certainly not mistaken about His own prophecy.

Never said He is!

Jesus Christ did not deceive His own followers.

Never said He did! Your imagination is totally out of control! Being kind! Preterists have WILD imaginations!

And Jesus Christ was most certainly not speaking to your generation 2,000 years later when He said “this generation.”

So it's just coincidence that Israel has recovered Jerusalem? The times of the Gentiles are over!

You're taking your interpretation of His coming, using it to override His explicit time marker, and then accusing those who refuse to move His words of misunderstanding Scripture.

Your interpretation is not the authority by which Christ’s words are corrected. Christ’s words are the authority by which your interpretation must be corrected.

If your system requires Christ to have been mistaken about the generation He identified, then your system has created a catastrophic Christological problem: a fallible Christ who was wrong about His own prophecy.

That is not the Christ proclaimed by the apostles.

Repent of placing your system above His Word.

Better keep that right hand nice and clean! They will find you.

Revelation 13:16-17
16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,
17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Never said He is. I quoted Him.

Never said He is!

Never said He did! Your imagination is totally out of control! Being kind! Preterists have WILD imaginations!

So it's just coincidence that Israel has recovered Jerusalem? The times of the Gentiles are over!

Better keep that right hand nice and clean! They will find you.

Revelation 13:16-17
16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,
17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Jack, you've now quoted Zechariah 14, Acts 1, Revelation 13, the Mount of Olives, the mark of the beast, and modern Israel.

And after all of that, you still haven't answered the question.

Where did Jesus identify 1948, 1967, or any future generation as the “this generation” of Luke 21:32?

You said “Already quoted Jesus.”

No, you quoted Jesus, then supplied your own interpretation of modern history and treated that interpretation as though Jesus had said it.

He absolutely did not.

You say the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Fine, show where Jesus says that fulfillment starts a new generation for verse 32.

You say Christ will stand on the Mount of Olives. Fine, show where that changes the generation He named.

You say the mark of the beast is coming. Fine, show where Revelation 13 identifies the generation of Luke 21:32.

You keep adding passages, but you never supply the missing connection.

And then you accuse me of evading because I refuse to accept the connection you have not established.

That's exactly what this thread is showing.

Your interpretation of His coming is not a verse changing “this generation.”

Your interpretation of 1967 is not a verse changing “this generation.”

Your interpretation of Revelation 13 is not a verse changing “this generation.”

You have a system that requires another generation.

Now show us where Jesus required one.

Book. Chapter. Verse. >>>

Until then, “Bingo,” “Stay tuned,” and “Got it yet?” aren't answers.

They’re just confidence words substituting for evidence you don’t have.

 

[Jack]

Jack, you've now quoted Zechariah 14, Acts 1, Revelation 13, the Mount of Olives, the mark of the beast, and modern Israel.

Yeah, lots of Bible!

And after all of that, you still haven't answered the question.

Where did Jesus identify 1948, 1967, or any future generation as the “this generation” of Luke 21:32?

24 And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

And they were. Don't you know who controls Jerusalem now? Israel, not Gentiles! So simple!

You said “Already quoted Jesus.”

No, you quoted Jesus, then supplied your own interpretation of modern history and treated that interpretation as though Jesus had said it.

He absolutely did not.

You say the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Fine, show where Jesus says that fulfillment starts a new generation for verse 32.

You say Christ will stand on the Mount of Olives. Fine, show where that changes the generation He named.

You say the mark of the beast is coming. Fine, show where Revelation 13 identifies the generation of Luke 21:32.

You keep adding passages, but you never supply the missing connection.

And then you accuse me of evading because I refuse to accept the connection you have not established.

That's exactly what this thread is showing.

Your interpretation of His coming is not a verse changing “this generation.”

Your interpretation of 1967 is not a verse changing “this generation.”

Your interpretation of Revelation 13 is not a verse changing “this generation.”

You have a system that requires another generation.

Now show us where Jesus required one.

Book. Chapter. Verse. >>>

Until then, “Bingo,” “Stay tuned,” and “Got it yet?” aren't answers.

They’re just confidence words substituting for evidence you don’t have.

Already answered every one of your questions. You're in a Preterist daze!

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Jack, you're going to need more reinforcements.

Get Hagee, the ghost of Darby, and the entire prophecy conference committee in here tomorrow when I'm back online.

Bring the charts, the timelines, the maps, and the 1948–1967 calculator.

Maybe between all of you, somebody can finally find the verse where Jesus says “this generation” means a different generation.

Book. Chapter. Verse.

I'll bring the popcorn.

 

[Nathaniel]

Somewhere in a holler in Tennessee, 1956...


“Hey Jebediah, did ya hear the news about Jesus Christ feeding the 5,000?!”


Jebediah: “I sure didn’t! What are you talking about?!”


“Oh my gosh, Jebediah; Jesus predicted the American interstate highway system!”


Jebediah: “HE DID WHAT?!”


“Yep! It’s all right there in the Bible!”


Jebediah: “Are you kidding me?! The Bible really says that?!”


“That’s right. Look here: Jesus said, ‘And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.’ For nearly two thousand years Christians thought He was merely teaching people to go beyond what was required. They completely missed it. Christ was prophetically revealing the American Interstate Highway System! The five loaves represent five federal transportation zones, the two fish represent the House and Senate, and the twelve baskets left over prophetically signify the original twelve lanes of the Millennial Superhighway! He was pointing forward to a nationwide controlled-access highway network that would unite America under Eisenhower!”


Jebediah: “OH MY GOSH! Jesus was really talking about us?!?!!!”


"That's right! You didn’t see it before because you were just reading the Bible regular like.”

“Now, Jebediah, for just $24.95, you too can learn our system and discover all kinds of things secretly buried in God’s Word about the United States government!”


Jebediah: “YOU MEAN IT’S ALL IN THERE?!”


“Every bit of it! Congress, highways, federal agencies, tax districts; maybe even the Department of Transportation!”


Jebediah: “BUT I’VE READ THE BIBLE MY WHOLE LIFE!”

“Exactly, Jebediah. That was your first mistake. You were reading the Bible without our notes to let you know what God was really saying!”

Jebediah: “OH MY GOSH!!! Well I’ll be. Let me get my wallet!”


“And because you ordered today, you'll receive our absolutely free bonus prophecy charts:

“THE TWELVE BASKETS, THE FEDERAL RESERVE, AND WHY JESUS SECRETLY WARNED ABOUT THE DMV” along with “JESUS, THE INTERSTATE HIGHWAY ACT, AND THE MYSTERY OF THE SEVEN MILE MARKERS”

Perhaps it has something to do with having spent my entire adult life behind a steering wheel, but I laughed so hard my glasses almost fell off.

Well done, well done.

 

[Jack]

Jack, you're going to need more reinforcements.

All I need is Jesus Whom I keep quoting!

Get Hagee, the ghost of Darby, and the entire prophecy conference committee in here tomorrow when I'm back online.

Who / what is Hagee?

Bring the charts, the timelines, the maps, and the 1948–1967 calculator.

IOW you don't have a clue about the history of Jerusalem/Israel!

Maybe between all of you, somebody can finally find the verse where Jesus says “this generation” means a different generation.

Book. Chapter. Verse.

I'll bring the popcorn.

And you still don't know where Jesus will return! Do you even own a Bible?

 

[shepherdsword]

Jack, you're going to need more reinforcements.

Get Hagee, the ghost of Darby, and the entire prophecy conference committee in here tomorrow when I'm back online.

Bring the charts, the timelines, the maps, and the 1948–1967 calculator.

Maybe between all of you, somebody can finally find the verse where Jesus says “this generation” means a different generation.

Book. Chapter. Verse.

I'll bring the popcorn.

It's easy, "this generation" is the one that would see the signs of the Son of Man and experience his return. Have we seen the Lord return on the clouds with power and great glory? We don't need a chart to show he has not.

 

[Jack]

Jack, you're going to need more reinforcements.

Get Hagee, the ghost of Darby, and the entire prophecy conference committee in here tomorrow when I'm back online.

Bring the charts, the timelines, the maps, and the 1948–1967 calculator.

Maybe between all of you, somebody can finally find the verse where Jesus says “this generation” means a different generation.

Book. Chapter. Verse.

I'll bring the popcorn.

You won't even answer one simple question! All you do is smoke screen to avoid answering!

 

[Davy]

So God showed YOU a "very strong seductive spirit" but nobody else, huh?
Cool.
I bet you are special.

Lizbeth actually is... special. What's sad is that you cannot recognize it.

Per Revelation 13:4-8, only those whose names are written in the Book of Life will not be deceived by the coming false-Messiah that Lord Jesus forewarned His elect Church about in His Olivet discourse, and in His Book of Revelation. All the rest of the world will be fooled into believing that coming "dragon" working great signs, wonders, and miracles in Jerusalem at the end, will be The Messiah when it will be an imposter, as shown in God's written Word.

 

[Davy]

This dude is claiming Jesus already returned???

That's funny farm territory right there!

It's called men's doctrine of 'Full Preterism'.

There is men's doctrine called just Preterism, and then another wilder version of it called Full Preterism. The Preterist still believes Christ's 2nd coming is yet future.

But the Full Preterist believes Christ's 2nd coming is meant 'spiritually' only, and that it already happened back in the days of His Apostles. One really cannot get any more wrapped up in pagan Gnosticism than that false Full Preterist belief system.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

It's easy, "this generation" is the one that would see the signs of the Son of Man and experience his return. Have we seen the Lord return on the clouds with power and great glory? We don't need a chart to show he has not.

Yes, it's “easy” when your manmade system is allowed to override God's Word.

You were already answered in posts #173, #175, and #178, and now you're back presenting the same assumption as though none of those replies happened.

We've been over this.

Christ doesn't tell you who He was talking to anymore. Your system has the audacity to tell Christ who He was talking to.

And all the while, Christ's actual words and the audience He identified are sitting there not merely ignored, but overruled by your interpretation of His coming. This implies that Jesus Christ either deceived His own followers, or at best was mistaken.

Thats the very problem this thread has been exposing.

Your interpretation is not the authority by which Christ's words are corrected. Christ's words are the authority by which your interpretation must be corrected.

And if your system requires Christ to have been mistaken about the generation He identified, then your system has created a fallible Christ who was wrong about His own prophecy.

Thats not the Christ proclaimed by the apostles.

You can repeat “we haven't seen Him return” another hundred times. It still doesn't establish that Jesus meant another generation.

Where did Jesus change the generation?

Book. Chapter. Verse.

Until you answer that, you're not defending Christ's words.
You're defending a modern, manmade interpretation that requires you to change them.

 

[shepherdsword]

Yes, it's “easy” when your manmade system is allowed to override God's Word.

You were already answered in posts #173, #175, and #178, and now you're back presenting the same assumption as though none of those replies happened.

We've been over this.

Christ doesn't tell you who He was talking to anymore. Your system has the audacity to tell Christ who He was talking to.

And all the while, Christ's actual words and the audience He identified are sitting there not merely ignored, but overruled by your interpretation of His coming. This implies that Jesus Christ either deceived His own followers, or at best was mistaken.

Thats the very problem this thread has been exposing.

Your interpretation is not the authority by which Christ's words are corrected. Christ's words are the authority by which your interpretation must be corrected.

And if your system requires Christ to have been mistaken about the generation He identified, then your system has created a fallible Christ who was wrong about His own prophecy.

Thats not the Christ proclaimed by the apostles.

You can repeat “we haven't seen Him return” another hundred times. It still doesn't establish that Jesus meant another generation.

Where did Jesus change the generation?

Book. Chapter. Verse.

Until you answer that, you're not defending Christ's words.
You're defending a modern, manmade interpretation that requires you to change them.

when did Jesus return? I know you will dodge the question

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

when did Jesus return? I know you will dodge the question

Christ came in judgment against Jerusalem in AD 70, just as He warned that generation.

That doesn't mean every prophecy of His final return was fulfilled.

Your question assumes every reference to His coming must describe the same event. That's the trick.

Isaiah 19:1 describes the LORD coming on a cloud against Egypt. Was that a literal descent onto Egyptian soil?

You take your interpretation of the coming, use it to move “this generation” 2,000 years forward (which is absolutely not found in the text), and then demand that I accept your interpretation before I can answer your question.

That's the scam; your system creates the problem, supplies the answer, and then calls anyone who questions the system evasive.

You're not letting Christ's time marker correct your interpretation. You're using your interpretation to correct Christ's time marker.

Christ said “THIS generation.”

Your system says:

“That cannot mean the generation He was addressing, because my interpretation of His coming won't work that way.”

Then perhaps your interpretation of His coming is the part that needs correcting.

I can assure you, Christ’s infallible words are not the problem.

Your modern manmade system is.

 

[shepherdsword]

Christ came in judgment against Jerusalem in AD 70, just as He warned that generation.

Jesus said he would return on the clouds in power and great glory. You are ignoring scripture and injecting a manmade preterist error into the text:

Mt 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Ac 1:9-11
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


Rv 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Your doctrine is not of Christ...it is a manmade fabrication that ignores how the scripture says Jesus will return in numerous places.

Goodbye

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

Jesus said he would return on the clouds in power and great glory. You are ignoring scripture and injecting a manmade preterist error into the text:

Mt 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Ac 1:9-11
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


Rv 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Your doctrine is not of Christ...it is a manmade fabrication that ignores how the scripture says Jesus will return in numerous places.

Goodbye

Shepherdsword, I affirm the future return of Jesus Christ. I am not denying Acts 1 or the resurrection of the dead.

What I'm challenging is your assumption that every reference to Christ coming on the clouds must describe that same final event.

You quoted Matthew 24:30, Acts 1:9–11, and Revelation 1:7.

Now show where Scripture says those three passages must refer to the same event.

You've assumed that connection and then used it to override Christ’s explicit time marker.

Your system’s assumption is being treated as more authoritative than Christ’s own words.

That's the very interpretation under dispute.

Isaiah 19:1 describes the LORD coming on a cloud against Egypt. The prophecy concerns divine judgment, not a physical descent onto Egyptian soil.

So cloud-coming language can describe God acting in judgment. That means the meaning of Matthew 24 must be established from its own context, not simply assumed from your interpretation of Acts 1.

And Matthew 24 contains a time marker you still have not accounted for:

“This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.” — Matthew 24:34

You can't quote another passage, assume it describes the same event, and then use that assumption to move Christ’s generation 2,000 years forward.

That's the interpretive move under dispute.

I have answered your question. Christ came in judgment against Jerusalem in AD 70, and I affirm His future final return.

Now answer mine:

Where did Jesus identify another generation as “this generation”?

Book. Chapter. Verse.

Until you can answer that.. yes, goodbye.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

As easy as 1, 2, 3....


“Here we observe yet another previously overlooked dispensation: the Honeymoon Cloud City Incident, during which Chewbacca became intoxicated, destroyed Lando’s bar, and caused great distress to his new bride Princess Leia, who was ultimately forced to bail him out of jail.”

View attachment 89534


And boy don't try to tell them thats not what the script actually says, or you'll be in for it..


Once the system has decided what the text must mean, pointing out that the text does not actually say it is treated as the problem.

So if you're "misled" and sitting there going - "but the script says they just got captured and are being taken to Vader. And they're not even married."

Then, obviously such a person is “unenlightened.”

You need their system to see what the script doesn't say.

Now apply that to Christianity, where eternal souls are at stake. Where does that lead when a human system becomes more authoritative than Christ’s own words?

^ This really just can't be topped as a 12 year old would get it...

For Gen X and older..

It’s like your parents and their entire theological system brainwashed you into believing that Tom Hanks and his friend in Bosom Buddies are REALLY WOMEN; not men dressed as women.



So you grow up, dedicate your life to studying Bosom Buddies, write books about it, attend conferences, go to school and study their system and become a world-renowned expert on the show.

Then your friends finally sit you down and say:

“DUDE! THEY’RE MEN!!! THEY’RE DRESSED AS WOMEN! IT SAYS IT RIGHT IN THE INTRO!!!”

And then you stare at them like they've lost their minds.

“No. Our system clearly teaches that they’re women pretending to be men who are secretly women. You’re just watching the show without the proper interpretive framework.”

Your friends: “Brother, THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF THE SHOW IS THAT THEY’RE TWO MEN PRETENDING TO BE WOMEN SO THEY CAN LIVE THERE!!!”

You: “That’s merely your interpretation. You need to study our system before you can truly understand what the show is really saying.”

And that’s how you can spend your entire life becoming an expert on something while being completely wrong about the very premise you claim to understand.