Pretrib fallacies

[Taken]

Can you take this gift if the Father doesn't give you the ability?

The Gift of Salvation Offered and Given by Christ Jesus, is Preceded, by hearing / learning Christ Jesus’ and His Gift Exists.
Followed by, a declaration of the persons confession of Heartful Belief, Regret for having had Not Believed, desire for His Forgiveness and to Heartfully Take His Gift Offering.

The Fathers Gift of Salvation, is GIVEN, when a man Mortally Dies, and at the time of his Death he Heartfully Believes in God…

If a person never heard of God, and mortally Dies, and that person WOULD HAVE Believe…God will save him.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

What????

When you hear something …you go look it up to see if what you heard is True.

If you can not find it, then ask the person who said it.

 

[William Barton]

Where is a tribulation period mentioned after the rapture in any of these? The 7th trumpet is the end of time, the mystery of God is over and the general judgment. We are now into eternity.

Seventh trump is mentioned in Revelation 11:15-19.

Where is a tribulation period mentioned after the rapture in any of these? The 7th trumpet is the end of time, the mystery of God is over and the general judgment. We are now into eternity.

IMO:
The purpose of the rapture is to remove believers from the coming bowl judgments (Revelation chapter 16).

The series is:
o. Trumpets = announcement, listen up.
o. Scrolls = a declaration is read, declaring Jesus Lord of the Land.
o. Bowls = hot oil torture ensues, ancient method of torture

This is apocalyptic literature, and the interpretations vary widely.

The seventh trump is not the end of time, it's the end of the trumpet soundings, declaring Jesus king and priest of the world.

Great tribulation begins after Jesus descends to a cloud (Rev 14:14-6) and catches up believers.

 

[WPM]

Seventh trump is mentioned in

The purpose of the rapture is to remove believers from the coming bowl judgments.

Stop avoiding. Quote each passage and show me the tribulation after the rapture. I will take your avoidance as proof you have nothing

 

[Taken]

IMO:
The rapture is indicated in the following places:
1. John 14:2-3
2. 1Corinthians 15:51-53
3. 1Thessalonians 4:15-17
4. Revelation 11:12
5. Revelation 14:16

It occurs at the seventh trumpet, at the midpoint of the seven-year tribulation.

Disagree Rapture is After the 7th Trump.

The Rapture is Christ Jesus Redeeming His Faithful and Saved Church, Before Tribulations Are Sent Upon the Earth from Heaven.

During the Seals and Trumps men ON Earth … ARE Coming into Belief … And Bodily Dying / being Killed … and Then is their soul Saved BY God…
Their Departed Saved Souls, Wait “under the Altar” For the Last … “Time Salvation can be Given” and Those bodies are Killed…
Then TOGETHER their Souls Are risen UP to Heaven, ( Gods Kingdom, and worship Him day and night).

Last time Salvation is Offered, and can be Given?

Seventh Trump? No

Rev 11: Seventh Trump sounded.

Rev 14: (All on Earth Hear the Gospel)
[6] And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.

Notice…

Rev.
[8] And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.


Warning…

[9] And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Salvation Offering Continues…

[13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Division time Commences…

[14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
[15] And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
[16] And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

The Harvest is Gathered…

Matt 24:
[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of ”a” trumpet, and “they shall gather together his elect from” the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.




Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

The purpose of the rapture is to remove believers from the coming bowl judgments.

The purpose of the Rapture is Remove the converted IN Christ (Christs Church) from the face of the Earth.

Still plenty of (unConfessed) Believers and non-Believers on the Earth.

 

[WPM]

Disagree Rapture is After the 7th Trump.

The Rapture is Christ Jesus Redeeming His Faithful and Saved Church, Before Tribulations Are Sent Upon the Earth from Heaven.

During the Seals and Trumps men ON Earth … ARE Coming into Belief … And Bodily Dying / being Killed … and Then is their soul Saved BY God…
Their Departed Saved Souls, Wait “under the Altar” For the Last … “Time Salvation can be Given” and Those bodies are Killed…
Then TOGETHER their Souls Are risen UP to Heaven, ( Gods Kingdom, and worship Him day and night).

Last time Salvation is Offered, and can be Given?

Seventh Trump? No

Rev 11: Seventh Trump sounded.

Rev 14: (All on Earth Hear the Gospel)
[6] And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.

Notice…

Rev.
[8] And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.


Warning…

[9] And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Salvation Offering Continues…

[13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Division time Commences…

[14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
[15] And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
[16] And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

The Harvest is Gathered…

Matt 24:
[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of ”a” trumpet, and “they shall gather together his elect from” the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.




Glory to God,
Taken

You guys make it up as you go. You make Revelation say whatever you want. You have absolutely nothing to support your opinions in the rest of Scripture. That is why you guys avoid the simple questions. To answer them honestly would demolish your doctrine.

 

[WPM]

Seventh trump is mentioned in

The purpose of the rapture is to remove believers from the coming bowl judgments.

1. Where is a tribulation period mentioned after the rapture in John 14:2-3
2. Where is a tribulation period mentioned after the rapture in 1 Corinthians 15:51-53
3. Where is a tribulation period mentioned after the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
4. Where is a tribulation period mentioned after the rapture in Revelation 11:12
5. Where is a tribulation period mentioned after the rapture in Revelation 14:16?

 

[GeneZ]

How many raptures are there?

Two of them....

One will be for believers.
The other is for unbelievers.

One will be for removing Christians, which will take place just before the seven-year Tribulation.
For that reason the Tribulation will begin with all unbelievers.

The second one will be for removing all unbelievers just before the Millennium begins.
That is how the Millennium will begin with all believers.

The rapture of unbelievers before the Millennium takes place:

For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, ​

until the day Noah entered into the ark. And they did not know anything until the deluge came and ​

swept them all away. So also will be the coming of the Son of Man. Then there will be two men in the ​

field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one​

left. Therefore, be on the alert, because you do not know what day your Lord is coming! ​

​

Matthew 24:38-42​

 

[WPM]

Two of them....

One will be for believers.
The other is for unbelievers.

One will be for removing Christians, which will take place just before the seven-year Tribulation.
For that reason the Tribulation will begin with all unbelievers.

The second one will be for removing all unbelievers just before the Millennium begins.
That is how the Millennium will begin with all believers.

The second rapture of unbelievers:

For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, ​

until the day Noah entered into the ark. And they did not know anything until the deluge came and ​

swept them all away. So also will be the coming of the Son of Man. Then there will be two men in the ​

field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one​

left. Therefore, be on the alert, because you do not know what day your Lord is coming! ​

​

Matthew 24:38-42​

Show me these 2 raptures in Rev?

 

[GeneZ]

Where is your rapture in Revelation then?

I was reposting passages that another person was citing for the Rapture by only giving chapter and verse..
I was not saying I believe they were all pertaining to the Rapture.

(You did not finish reading my post).

For I also said...

Note! Revelation 11:12 and 14:16?​

Have nothing to do with the Rapture.​

Revelation 11:12
Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

Revelation 14:16
So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.


So be it....

 

[WPM]

I was reposting passages that another person was citing for the Rapture by only giving chapter and verse..
I was not saying I believe they were all pertaining to the Rapture.

(You did not finish reading my post).

For I also said...

Note! Revelation 11:12 and 14:16?​

Have nothing to do with the Rapture.​

Revelation 11:12
Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

Revelation 14:16
So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.


So be it....

Ok. Got it. But, can you answer my question? Where are your 2 raptures in Rev?

 

[Taken]

You guys make it up as you go. You make Revelation say whatever you want. You have absolutely nothing to support your opinions in the rest of Scripture. That is why you guys avoid the simple questions. To answer them honestly would demolish your doctrine.

Men learn as they, hear, read and STUDY.
Presuming everyone hears, reads, studies, learns, the exact same things at the exact time, is a Fail.

Using vague language to state a position or ask a question … gives rise to “guessing” what the “other” thinks “their” words mean.

What is your Simple Question regarding a Complex spiritual Issue?

 

[GeneZ]

Ok. Got it. But, can you answer my question? Where are your 2 raptures in Rev?

I called them "raptures" to indicate the removal of human bodies from the earth.
The two cited verses in Revelation were not about 'the' rapture, but about simply the removal of bodies from the earth.

 

[GeneZ]

Men learn as they, hear, read and STUDY.
Presuming everyone hears, reads, studies, learns, the exact same things at the exact time, is a Fail.

Using vague language to state a position or ask a question … gives rise to “guessing” what the “other” thinks “their” words mean.

What is your Simple Question regarding a Complex spiritual Issue?

Precisely my problem with him.

 

[WPM]

I called them "raptures" to indicate the removal of human bodies from the earth.
The two cited verses in Revelation were not about 'the' rapture, but about simply the removal of bodies from the earth.

You are avoiding my questions.

So, do you believe in a rapture of the Church before a trib? Do you believe in a 7 yr trib? Do you believe in a third coming of Jesus?

If so:

1. Show me where these are in Scripture?
2. Show me where these are in Rev?

 

[GeneZ]

You are avoiding my questions.

So, do you believe in a rapture of the Church before a trib? Do you believe in a 7 yr trib? Do you believe in a third coming of Jesus?

If so:

1. Show me where these are in Scripture?
2. Show me where these are in Rev?

What are you doing?
How long have you been saved, may I ask?

 

[WPM]

The purpose of the Rapture is Remove the converted IN Christ (Christs Church) from the face of the Earth.

Still plenty of (unConfessed) Believers and non-Believers on the Earth.

• Show me the rapture of the Church in Rev?
• Show me the rapture of the Church in the rest of Scripture?

 

[GeneZ]

Stop avoiding. Quote each passage and show me the tribulation after the rapture. I will take your avoidance as proof you have nothing

You treat everybody the same bad way.

And it leaves me thinking that you have an agenda to prove.
Like, why should I bother?

 

[WPM]

What are you doing?
How long have you been saved, may I ask?

LOL. What are you scared of?

• Do you believe in a rapture of the Church before a trib?
• Do you believe in a 7 yr trib?
• Do you believe in a third coming of Jesus?

If so:

1. Show me where these are in Scripture?
2. Show me where these are in Rev?

You Pretribbers are all over the place. Not 2 of you can agree. Seriously! So, tell me where you stand, instead of ducking around simple questions.