The Two Anointed Ones = The Two Witnesses

[Truth7t7]

When you are changed from mortality to Immortality in an instance, in a twinkling of an eye, in a flash of light, or in a millisecond, one has been resurrected from death unto eternal life and Immortality. The grave and all the dead, rotting, mortal bodies of millennia have nothing to do with it at all.

Once again, the living in Christ will be "Changed" not "Resurrected", yes your opinion is "Wrong"

1 Corinthians 15:52KJV
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[Truth7t7]

Absolutely NOT!! No one has been given an eternally living soul. That theory is a blatant religious LIE.

Of course every human is given a eternal soul, your denial of this fact puts you in the belief of Jehovahs Witnesses or Seventh Day Adventust and their false doctrine of Annihilationism

 

[PeterAndroz]

Of course every human is given a eternal soul, your denial of this fact puts you in the belief of Jehovahs Witnesses or Seventh Day Adventust and their false doctrine of Annihilationism

Re Annihilation, I also used to reject it, but now I'm not so sure.
ps I'm not JW or SDA
Neither is this 10 min video
.

 

[ewq1938]

THE FACT IS: no one was able to "suffer" (cause/send) the immortal bodies of Jesus and John, after their resurrection, to be KEPT in graves.
Many of the OC saints (as was John the Baptist) also resurrected right AFTER Jesus' resurrection. Mat. 27:50-54.

The two prophets die together, not separated by years so they cannot be John and Jesus.

These are they who went up in a cloud when Jesus Ascended. Surely you don't think that all those that resurrected after Jesus, were then sent back to their graves, to DIE AGAIN?? No, they ascended with Him.

They died again like anyone who died and was resurrected because those are resurrections back to mortal life.

Whether you understand it or not, Jesus Himself was/IS "THE First Resurrection".

He is not the first resurrection of Rev 20 because that is speaking of the first of two groups that are resurrected.

Absolutely NOT!! No one has been given an eternally living soul. That theory is a blatant religious LIE.

You are still using a strawman fallacy. The soul is not created eternal. We have already discussed this.

 

[Truth7t7]

Re Annihilation, I also used to reject it, but now I'm not so sure.
ps I'm not JW or SDA
Neither is this 10 min video
.

The individual in the video clip stated that the unsaved will be judged to death, and they won't experience eternal conscious torment?

The individual in the video is a "False Teacher" as the Bible clearly teaches below that the wicked "Will Experience" eternal conscious torment

Revelation 13:4 & 8KJV
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Mark 9:43-44KJV
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

 

[PeterAndroz]

The individual in the video clip stated that the unsaved will be judged to death, and they won't experience eternal conscious torment?

The individual in the video is a "False Teacher" as the Bible clearly teaches below that the wicked "Will Experience" eternal conscious torment

Revelation 13:4 & 8KJV
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Mark 9:43-44KJV
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Your thoughts/interpretations are welcome & that's why I posted that clip.
ps, He does encourage and answers questions, so your input maybe of benefit to those who watch his channel

 

[Earburner]

Once again, the living in Christ will be "Changed" not "Resurrected", yes your opinion is "Wrong"

1 Corinthians 15:52KJV
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

I am not doubting what you choose to imply by your belief about "the rapture", I simply see it as a simultaneous singular event of his Glorious visible return from Heaven, as how 2 Thes. 1:7-10 delivers it, and how Jesus spoke of it in Luke 17:50-54.

Jesus is ONLY going to return ONE TIME, being that of the ONE 24 hour event, not 2 or 3 or more times!!

In Mat. 22:31-32, Jesus reveals what the resurrection is.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Jesus is not talking about those who are physically alive and breathing, as opposed to those who stopped breathing and are physically DEAD in their graves.
No! He is talking about those OC saints who were of faith in "the Promise that was to come".
Jesus Himself is that Promise.

As he said: "I AM the Resurrection and THE LIFE....".
Even upto the days of Jesus' ministry, those OC saints who died in faith, WERE STILL WAITING for that "Promise to come",... to them.
They are shown in Rev. 6:9-11 being "under the altar" of the OC, as having received the "white robe", aka the Gift of the Holy Spirit, soon after Christ's resurrection in Mat. 27:50-54; John 7:39.

Therefore, to everyone who comes to God, by having faith in Jesus, and are Born again of the Gift of God's Holy Spirit, they HAVE TAKEN PART in the First Resurrection, who is Jesus, and therefore they have been made to be "blessed and holy".
Rev. 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

We who are Born again, are they who are resurrected already, and simply are waiting in faith of His Glorious return, so that we can be made Immortal after His likeness.

So then, "do you believe it?", of what Jesus means:
"whosoever LIVETH and believeth IN ME, shall never die".
Please see KJV 1 John 5:11-13.

 

[Truth7t7]

I am not doubting what you choose to imply by your belief about "the rapture", I simply see it as a simultaneous singular event of his Glorious visible return from Heaven, as how 2 Thes. 1:7-10 delivers it, and how Jesus spoke of it in Luke 17:50-54.

Jesus is ONLY going to return ONE TIME, being that of the ONE 24 hour event, not 2 or 3 or more times!!

In Mat. 22:31-32, Jesus reveals what the resurrection is.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Jesus is not talking about those who are physically alive and breathing, as opposed to those who stopped breathing and are physically DEAD in their graves.
No! He is talking about those OC saints who were of faith in "the Promise that was to come".
Jesus Himself is that Promise.

As he said: "I AM the Resurrection and THE LIFE....".
Even upto the days of Jesus' ministry, those OC saints who died in faith, WERE STILL WAITING for that "Promise to come",... to them.
They are shown in Rev. 6:9-11 being "under the altar" of the OC, as having received the "white robe", aka the Gift of the Holy Spirit, soon after Christ's resurrection in Mat. 27:50-54; John 7:39.

Therefore, to everyone who comes to God, by having faith in Jesus, and are Born again of the Gift of God's Holy Spirit, they HAVE TAKEN PART in the First Resurrection, who is Jesus, and therefore they have been made to be "blessed and holy".
Rev. 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

We who are Born again, are they who are resurrected already, and simply are waiting in faith of His Glorious return, so that we can be made Immortal after His likeness.

So then, "do you believe it?", of what Jesus means:
"whosoever LIVETH and believeth IN ME, shall never die".
Please see KJV 1 John 5:11-13.

The word used is "Changed" not "Resurrection" I follow the simple words of scripture "Changed"

 

[Earburner]

The word used is "Changed" not "Resurrection" I follow the simple words of scripture "Changed"

Yes!!!! We shall be changed!!!
Q. But FROM what and into WHAT?
A. From MORTAL into IMMORTAL.
Which is the Resurrection that Jesus Himself underwent.

 

[Earburner]

Ok,...back to "my Two anointed ones" (Zech. 4:14), and "my Two witnessess". (Rev. 11:3).

In Zech. 3:8-9, is God talking about Jesus or John the Baptist as being the Branch?
Zech. 3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch.
9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

 Edit:
Whoever we might think that the Branch is, he is also known as "the stone", whereby God will remove iniquity of that land in one day.

Mat. 21:42
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

 

[Earburner]

Of course every human is given a eternal soul, your denial of this fact puts you in the belief of Jehovahs Witnesses or Seventh Day Adventust and their false doctrine of Annihilationism

No, it puts me in with the authority of 2 Thes. 1:7-10 and Luke 17:28-30, of which as of yet, you still cannot discern.

 

[Truth7t7]

Ok,...back to "my Two anointed ones" (Zech. 4:14), and "my Two witnessess". (Rev. 11:3).

In Zech. 3:8-9, is God talking about Jesus or John the Baptist as being the Branch?
Zech. 3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch.
9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

 Edit:
Whoever we might think that the Branch is, he is also known as "the stone", whereby God will remove iniquity of that land in one day.

Mat. 21:42
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Problem: You have a pre-determined bias being a "Preterist" your desperately trying to use John and Jesus as fulfillment of Revelation 11 in the (Two Witnesses) "Wrong"

Your desperation is leading nowhere, because Jesus isn't going to be laying dead in the future for 3.5 days in a literal Jerusalem street, as a literal world watches their dead bodies, exchanging literal gifts in celebration of their deaths, and your not going to take these literal future events and turn them into symbolic allegory to meet your "Preterist" needs

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Earburner]

The two prophets die together, not separated by years so they cannot be John and Jesus.

I have dates, you do not.

They died again like anyone who died and was resurrected because those are resurrections back to mortal life.

They visited among the people, just as Jesus did for 40 days. So you believe that Jesus tricked them by ascending into heaven, and left them behind??
Do you not know who those OC saints were, that were still waiting for the Promise to come, but had died years before Jesus appeared? Malachi 3:16-18.
They are the figuratve 144,000 out of all the tribes of OC Israel. Those who were seen under the altar of the OC., in Rev. 6:9-11, waiting for their "white robes". They had not yet received the Promise of the Gift of the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified. But NOW that He had come, died and resurrected into NEW Life, they were each given the Holy Spirit (a white robe), and came out of their graves after Jesus Resurrection, who is Himself the First resurrection unto New Life.
John 7:39
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given [to anyone]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

He is not the first resurrection of Rev 20 because that is speaking of the first of two groups that are resurrected.

I have been answering all of your issues of false beliefs, in my previous replies.

You are still using a strawman fallacy.

Yeah, that's the typical response of those who have no back up to their own claims of belief.

The soul is not created eternal. We have already discussed this.

We may have discussed this, but you still don't understand. Your head is filled with false religious concepts.
"The life of the flesh is IN the blood. That Life is oxygenated air. Our human brains cannot exist without it. No Oxyernated blood to the brain, then no sub-conscious thoughts or conscious thoughts will be generated to the flesh at all. Sudden death shall surely come.

 

[Earburner]

Problem: You have a pre-determined bias being a "Preterist" your desperately trying to use John and Jesus as fulfillment of Revelation 11 in the (Two Witnesses) "Wrong"

Your desperation is leading nowhere, because Jesus isn't going to be laying dead in the future for 3.5 days in a literal Jerusalem street, as a literal world watches their dead bodies, exchanging literal gifts in celebration of their deaths, and your not going to take these literal future events and turn them into symbolic allegory to meet your "Preterist" needs

Jesus Is The Lord

You still do not comprehend the signification and coding of the prophetic book of Revelation by the angel, who then gave it to John. Rev. 1:1
The Holy Spirit through Paul said that we are to "compare spiritual things with spiritual", through "the mind of Christ", not through "the wisdom of men". 1 Cor. ch. 2.
By the way, 3.5 days is symbolic for 3.5 years, which is the total time of the Joint ministry of John and Jesus. 6 mos. for John, and 3.0 years for Jesus, aka 1260 literal days.
The other clue is that the great city (Jerusalem) is described in spiritual language to be as that of Sodom and that of Egypt. Do you have any thoughts about that, as to why Jerusalem would be called that, "where also our Lord was crucified"?

Do you not understand Isa. 55:8-9, and that we can't read or understand God's word by how our linear, limited fleshly brain literally interprets things?

 

[ewq1938]

I have dates, you do not.

How does that address the fact that Rev 11's two prophets die at the same time and day, and resurrect from the dead at the same time and day? Your theory that they were John and Jesus does not fit the text. You think wrong dates can fix that other error? You've been shown the truth as to why they can't be who you think they are so accept it and change your view or stay in error.

I can't respond to the other errors until this one is settled.

 

[ScottA]

@Earburner I see you have kicked the hornet's nest once again

There are many applicable passages of two witnesses, and three. It is good for you to question and dig and consider what is true. Even if it means waking the institutional giants...which it would appear you have done. Good for you! Indeed there would appear to be more than a few possibilities, as if God has not told us once, but told us a thousand times with many cameo versions all to get us thinking.

One could consider Luke 24:13-35 of the two who witnessed Jesus after He rose from the dead and went and witnessed to the eleven, and imagine just how it all played out--and be done with it. Two witnesses--there you go!

However, God did not leave us to squabble or to speculate for no good reason. He did it so we would do what you have done, and any number of others that would argue their own ideas on it--not to pick one and institutionalize it as doctrine--as they have done. He could have easily just made it clear. But the speculation has purpose, but it's bigger than all those little cameo possibilities--this is God we're talking about--His ways are higher, bigger, and more grand. But if we are looking for a needle in the haystack of scripture, we miss His overview perspective. And from that standpoint--His--He has made it clear:

He has spoken of all as one man in Adam, and all in One man Jesus. Two. But with a clear distinction between those born of the flesh, and those of the Spirit. Two. "And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." (1 Corinthians 15:45) Two witnesses. The flesh and the Spirit. "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual." (1 Corinthians 15:46)

But again, that doesn't work for the institutional giants, stuck, and up to their necks in the haystack.

 

[Truth7t7]

How does that address the fact that Rev 11's two prophets die at the same time and day, and resurrect from the dead at the same time and day? Your theory that they were John and Jesus does not fit the text. You think wrong dates can fix that other error? You've been shown the truith as to why they can't be who you think they are so accept it and change your view or stay in error.

I can't respond to the other errors until this one is settled.

I Agree 100%

What you've presented regarding the (Two Witnesses) is "Basic" they both were killed and raised on the same exact day, Jesus and John weren't killed and raised on the same day, on this basic truth alone "Earburners" claims that Jesus and John fulfilled the (Two Witnesses) in Rev Chap 11 are in the trash can, a "False Claim"!

Will he continue in his Error? My opinion is Yes, just as the many others that have been shown basic biblical truths , and they continue in their many errors, man's "Pride"

 

[ewq1938]

I Agree 100%

What you've presented regarding the (Two Witnesses) is "Basic" they both were killed and raised on the same exact day, Jesus and John weren't killed and raised on the same day, on this basic truth alone "Earburners" claims that Jesus and John fulfilled the (Two Witnesses) in Rev Chap 11 are in the trash can, a "False Claim"!

Will he continue in his Error? My opinion is Yes, just as the many others that have been shown basic biblical , and they continue in their errors "Pride"

Have you seen the other view, that the two prophets are the law and prophet books of the OT? Interpretations like that simply do not match the details of the text and no amount of symbolic interpretation can rectify the contradictions.

 

[Earburner]

Problem: You have a pre-determined bias being a "Preterist" your desperately trying to use John and Jesus as fulfillment of Revelation 11 in the (Two Witnesses) "Wrong"

Your desperation is leading nowhere, because Jesus isn't going to be laying dead in the future for 3.5 days in a literal Jerusalem street, as a literal world watches their dead bodies, exchanging literal gifts in celebration of their deaths, and your not going to take these literal future events and turn them into symbolic allegory to meet your "Preterist" needs

Jesus Is The Lord

I Agree 100%

What you've presented regarding the (Two Witnesses) is "Basic" they both were killed and raised on the same exact day, Jesus and John weren't killed and raised on the same day, on this basic truth alone "Earburners" claims that Jesus and John fulfilled the (Two Witnesses) in Rev Chap 11 are in the trash can, a "False Claim"!

Will he continue in his Error? My opinion is Yes, just as the many others that have been shown basic biblical truths , and they continue in their many errors, man's "Pride"

Both John and Jesus were physically born WITH the Holy Spirit, whereas in all time, NO ONE ELSE has ever done so. If anyone meets the requirements to be the Two witnesses of Rev. 11, thus fulfilling the prophecies in Zech. 3 and 4, they most surely do. Where is their error in that?
No where does it ever state that the two witnesses were killed on the same day.

Simply consider the aspect of "Rain" and "Living waters" being referenced back and forth between Zech. and Rev.. Is that in reference to the activity of moisture condensing in atmospheric clouds and rain droplets, replenishing the Lakes and the Rivers, or is it about the activity of the Heavenly Gift of the Holy Spirit, being "shut" during the days of their prophesying? Rev. 11:6
After their violent Martyrdom of one being beheaded and the other crucifief, the "Rain" of Heaven was then opened as a flood gate on Pentecost.

 

[ewq1938]

No where does it ever state that the two witnesses were killed on the same day.

That's wrong. It says they lie dead for 3.5 days then resurrect which mans they died at the same exact time, were dead for the same exact time and resurrect at the same time. The two witnesses are not two people only either.